LDS Freedom Forum

to go no more out = remain, stay, don't leave, one has entered into God's rest.

the righteous shall sit down in his kingdom, to go no more out = remain, etc.

land their souls, yea, their immortal souls, at the right hand of God in the kingdom of heaven, to sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and with Jacob, and with all our holy fathers, to go no more out. = One passed the test, they are home free to remain in God's presence.

to be received into the kingdom of the Father to go no more out, but to dwell with God eternally in the heavens. = just that, remain

that ye may at last be brought to sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and the holy prophets who have been ever since the world began, having your garments spotless even as their garments are spotless, in the kingdom of heaven to go no more out. = one doesn't have to leave again, he can stay and be with glorified beings.

Come to think of it, had Abraham, Isaac or Jacob, or anyone else had gone to be on multiple other worlds, their names might not be the same. Their names are Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Jehovah/Jesus is still the same from when he was on this earth. Same thing applies with Enoch and billions of other people.

Wouldn't it be strange to hear that a newly arrived individual going into heaven were to sit down with, George, Henry and Fred?

Peter, James, John and Moroni, all, of which, appeared to Joseph Smith could be Piper, Lucious, Ferdinand and Rudolf..........or names we've never heard before.

What did Moroni believe? Which body is he referring to?

34 And now I bid unto all, farewell. I soon go to rest in the paradise of God, until my spirit and body shall again reunite, and I am brought forth triumphant through the air, to meet you before the pleasing bar of the great Jehovah, the Eternal Judge of both quick and dead. Amen.

Did Ether believe he had to be reincarnated, or did he know that one goes from this life to the kingdom of God via Paradise?

34 Now the last words which are written by Ether are these: Whether the Lord will that I be translated, or that I suffer the will of the Lord in the flesh, it mattereth not, if it so be that I am saved in the kingdom of God. Amen.

Did Enos know he was going on to another world to gain a different body, or did he know for a certainty that he would go to be with Father at some point after his body was laid to rest on this earth one time?

27 And I soon go to the place of my rest, which is with my Redeemer; for I know that in him I shall rest. And I rejoice in the day when my mortal shall put on immortality, and shall stand before him; then shall I see his face with pleasure, and he will say unto me: Come unto me, ye blessed, there is a place prepared for you in the mansions of my Father. Amen.

Where does the Lord say he will come and receive someone to himself...after having gone through multiple lives?

John 14:2 (2–3)
2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Ether 12:32 (32–34)
32 And I also remember that thou hast said that thou hast prepared a house for man, yea, even among the mansions of thy Father, in which man might have a more excellent hope; wherefore man must hope, or he cannot receive an inheritance in the place which thou hast prepared.
33 And again, I remember that thou hast said that thou hast loved the world, even unto the laying down of thy life for the world, that thou mightest take it again to prepare a place for the children of men.
34 And now I know that this love which thou hast had for the children of men is charity; wherefore, except men shall have charity they cannot inherit that place which thou hast prepared in the mansions of thy Father.

Where in this next verse does it say we must go to other worlds before going to a place prepared for the righteous in the mansions of the Father?

D&C 98:18
18 Let not your hearts be troubled; for in my Father’s house are many mansions, and I have prepared a place for you; and where my Father and I am, there ye shall be also.

JK4Woods wrote: ↑March 1st, 2019, 1:42 pm OK... I seem to particulary dense at the moment... but I can't figure out what MMP means... Please enlighten me.

Multiple mortal probations. Some think it is reincarnation (returning to this earth again and again). Others think it is coming to another mortality on the next/another earth God will create for those who didn't make it to the "go no more out" stage. Or who are still going down for other reasons (to minister, perhaps, ala D&C 76).

I was going to say, Alaris, I didn't realize it was in the Book of Mormon twice, but then I read larsenb's post. Holy cow, it's in the scriptures a lot!

Alaris wrote: ↑February 28th, 2019, 11:21 am Here's a good scripture:

Alma 34:36 And this I know, because the Lord hath said he dwelleth not in unholy temples, but in the hearts of the righteous doth he dwell; yea, and he has also said that the righteous shall sit down in his kingdom, to go no more out; but their garments should be made white through the blood of the Lamb.

To go no more out ... curious wording if we only go out once.

Surely that must have been one of those errors of men, though. A snafu. Oh wait, what's this?

Helaman 3:29 Yea, we see that whosoever will may lay hold upon the word of God, which is quick and powerful, which shall divide asunder all the cunning and the snares and the wiles of the devil, and lead the man of Christ in a strait and narrow course across that everlasting gulf of misery which is prepared to engulf the wicked—

30 And land their souls, yea, their immortal souls, at the right hand of God in the kingdom of heaven, to sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and with Jacob, and with all our holy fathers, to go no more out.

Verse 29 speaks of the "word of God" that leads man to the strait and narrow, hrm ... I won't focus on the title, "Word of God" but let's focus on the fact that path is straight and narrow. I'm pretty sure "paths" plural isn't anywhere our scriptures right? One path to Godhood - just like Joseph Smith said. If we stay on this path, which may include multiple descents to mortality, eventually we will sit down with all our holy fathers to ... go .. no ... more .. out.

larsenb wrote: ↑March 1st, 2019, 11:21 am Once again, here are all the "go no more out" scriptures I've found:

• Alma 7:25 25 And may the Lord bless you, and keep your garments spotless, that ye may at last be brought to sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and the holy prophets who have been ever since the world began, having your garments spotless even as their garments are spotless, in the kingdom of heaven to go no more out.

• Alma 29:17 17 And now may God grant unto these, my brethren, that they may sit down in the kingdom of God; yea, and also all those who are the fruit of their labors that they may go no more out, but that they may praise him forever. And may God grant that it may be done according to my words, even as I have spoken. Amen.

• Alma 34:36 36 And this I know, because the Lord hath said he dwelleth not in unholy temples, but in the hearts of the righteous doth he dwell; yea, and he has also said that the righteous shall sit down in his kingdom, to go no more out; but their garments should be made white through the blood of the Lamb.

• Helaman 3:30 30 And land their souls, yea, their immortal souls, at the right hand of God in the kingdom of heaven, to sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and with Jacob, and with all our holy fathers, to go no more out.

• 3 Nephi 28:40 40 And in this state they were to remain until the judgment day of Christ; and at that day they were to receive a greater change, and to be received into the kingdom of the Father to go no more out, but to dwell with God eternally in the heavens.

• Revelation 3:12 12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Silver Pie wrote: ↑March 4th, 2019, 7:15 pm I was going to say, Alaris, I didn't realize it was in the Book of Mormon twice, but then I read larsenb's post. Holy cow, it's in the scriptures a lot!

Right? He even posted this before and I still forgot!

Here's a good one:

Palms 71:20
Thou, which hast shewed me great and sore troubles, shalt quicken me again, and
shalt bring me up again from the depths of the earth.

Alaris wrote: ↑March 4th, 2019, 7:37 pm

Silver Pie wrote: ↑March 4th, 2019, 7:15 pm I was going to say, Alaris, I didn't realize it was in the Book of Mormon twice, but then I read larsenb's post. Holy cow, it's in the scriptures a lot!

Right? He even posted this before and I still forgot!

Here's a good one:

Psalms 71:20
Thou, which hast shewed me great and sore troubles, shalt quicken me again, and
shalt bring me up again from the depths of the earth.

What does "the depths of the earth" mean? It certainly can't be a grave, unless back then they dug holes hundreds of feet deep.

To be quickened again could mean that someone could have climbed the spiritual ladder and fallen off. Then after many sore troubles was quickened again. We are speaking of David after all, who had it all and messed up. He had to go through many trials and troubles to be able to be restored to God's rest. And we know that Christ is the quickening spirit. 1 Corinthians 15:45

Read psalms 71:1-24 The full context helps one understand the single verse.

Alaris wrote: ↑February 28th, 2019, 11:21 ameventually we will sit down with all our holy fathers to ... go .. no ... more .. out.

What is the scriptural source where we read that anyone will "eventually" make it into Father's kingdom having been reincarnated again and again?

The scriptures indicate to us that if we will live our lives according to every word out of the mouth of God, we then, can eventually be raised into eternal life after this one life on earth.

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑March 5th, 2019, 7:59 am

Alaris wrote: ↑February 28th, 2019, 11:21 ameventually we will sit down with all our holy fathers to ... go .. no ... more .. out.

What is the scriptural source where we read that anyone will "eventually" make it into Father's kingdom having been reincarnated again and again?

The scriptures indicate to us that if we will live our lives according to every word out of the mouth of God, we then, can eventually be raised into eternal life after this one life on earth.

Your last statement is correct - and while we are working out our eventual perfection, we either do it in static, resurrected bodies that have already been assigned a degree of glory, learning to be like the Savior and by the Father by not doing their works of love ...

Or we descend again into worlds patterned after the world we came from until we receive a fullness in the same way. I suggest you read those two articles of mine you didn't read (because they were full of holes you didn't care to take the time to define. Yet you ask me to laboriously interact with you and address your questions.)

You put "eventually" into quotes as though to deride the fact that perfection takes time. Elder Jeffrey R. Holland recently gave a wonderful talk on the subject, and wouldn't you know it? He cites those scriptures you seem to think don't exist - namely D&C 93.

I testify of that grand destiny, made available to us by the Atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ, who Himself continued “from grace to grace” (D&C 93) until in His immortality He received a perfect fulness of celestial glory. ~ Jeffrey R. Holland

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... country=au

If there is some other way to receive a perfect fullness of celestial glory, then the Lord Jesus Christ did not show us the path but His path.

The scriptures - the Lord Himself - make it clear that not all mysteries are spelled out in a way that all can see them. We've seen how folks react to MMP - I recently made a new friend online who shared my MMP article in a FaceBook group - and wouldn't you know it? Saints flew to pieces like glass and the discussion grew so contentious that he had to take down the article. You may see that as evidence my article is in error. I see it as further evidence that not only is the principle of MMP true but that Isaiah 28 is a prophecy coming to pass today.

You and this other user I will not name - the two of you coincidentally both believe that every truth must have a scriptural source that explains things to your liking. Can you not see how this attitude flies in the face of statements by the Lord such as the scripture below? With the 2/3 sealed portion just waiting to be opened ... with the fullness of the record of John just waiting to be revealed to us if we are ... what?

D&C 93:18 And it shall come to pass, that if you are faithful you shall receive the fulness of the record of John.

What is the Lord withholding from us, and why?

“I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the Saints prepared to receive the things of God; but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God, will fly to pieces like glass as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions: they cannot stand the fire at all. How many will be able to abide a celestial law, and go through and receive their exaltation, I am unable to say, as many are called, but few are chosen [see D&C 121:40].” ~ Joseph Smith

If only we had a modern day dispensation head who could verify the fact there is one path to Godhood, and being a Holy Ghost - being a Savior of a creation - are steps in that process of, as Elder Holland puts it, "until in (our) immortality (we receive) a perfect fulness of celestial glory."

Oh wait, what's this?

Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. ~ Joseph Smith, King Follet Sermon

Surely that was the only time he said such things - he must have misspoke! Surely he didn't mean "the same as ALL gods" who have gone before us as in there's one path to godhood? Surely being a Son of God isn't a step in becoming a Heavenly Father? Surely there aren't more witnesses of this because it conflicts with my traditional understanding!

Oh wait, what's this?

Joseph the Seer taught the following principle that the God & father of our Lord Jesus Christ was once the same as the Son or Holy Ghost but having redeemed a world he had a son Jesus Christ who redeemed this earth the same as his father had a world which made them equal & the Holy Ghost would to the same when in his turn & so would all the Saints who inherited a Celestial glory so their would be Gods many & Lords many their were many mansions even 12 from the abode of Devils to the Celestial glory. ~ Wilford Woodruff, Book of Revelations.


D&C 93:19 I give unto you these sayings that you may understand and know how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time receive of his fulness.


Edit:

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his
throne.

Here's another scripture that reinforces this one path in plain English. This promise is given to the archangels who incarnated on this Earth as dispensation heads. They are the princes we are anointed to become in the temple. Their promised reward is to overcome even as Jesus overcame. Simple.

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑March 2nd, 2019, 7:13 pm to go no more out = remain, stay, don't leave, one has entered into God's rest.

the righteous shall sit down in his kingdom, to go no more out = remain, etc.

land their souls, yea, their immortal souls, at the right hand of God in the kingdom of heaven, to sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and with Jacob, and with all our holy fathers, to go no more out. = One passed the test, they are home free to remain in God's presence.

to be received into the kingdom of the Father to go no more out, but to dwell with God eternally in the heavens. = just that, remain

that ye may at last be brought to sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and the holy prophets who have been ever since the world began, having your garments spotless even as their garments are spotless, in the kingdom of heaven to go no more out. = one doesn't have to leave again, he can stay and be with glorified beings. . . . .

Yes, you could read it this way.

MMP may be considered a very pernicious doctrine, especially for those who have learned and know about, and have believed in the Savior. My own suspicion is that it may operate under certain circumstances, but I don't presume to know what those may be, or if it even does happen.

But the main logic of the idea from an LDS perspective, would be that there may be many who have not benefitted by a full test of mortality, particularlly those who have died young or very young, etc.

You could also make a case for it after contemplating the 'law of restoration', as outlined in verses from Alma 41 and 42. Maybe someone has already pointed out why this could be the case.

larsenb wrote: ↑March 5th, 2019, 1:43 pmMMP may be considered a very pernicious doctrine, especially for those who have learned and know about, and have believed in the Savior. My own suspicion is that it may operate under certain circumstances, but I don't presume to know what those may be, or if it even does happen.

But the main logic of the idea from an LDS perspective, would be that there may be many who have not benefitted by a full test of mortality, particularlly those who have died young or very young, etc.

You could also make a case for it after contemplating the 'law of restoration', as outlined in verses from Alma 41 and 42. Maybe someone has already pointed out why this could be the case.

"MMP may be considered a very pernicious doctrine." Indeed. I suspect it could actually cause some people to leave the church. Here we have all kinds of lesson manuals, various books written by church leaders, the four standard works...and even a book permeated with doctrine from the prophet Joseph Smith.




I have yet to understand why the church has two separate doctrines, one with the gospel of Christ mixed with MMP and Adam-God theories, and the other, the gospel of Christ alone. And to top this off, we have the book, here shown, that does not cover either one of these theories. If I were a new investigator, I would probably turn tail and run.
The problem is is that one learns the latter gospel by studying it, living it, discussing it and gleaning from its principles that provide hope and anticipation of a better world, just to have another doctrine with the name LDS attached to it that immediately throws a huge wrench into the whole thing. Even someone well grounded in the gospel would find this extremely disturbing. Like, "I have to go through this crap all over again, and again, and again???

"There may be many who have not benefited by a full test of mortality, particularly those who have died young or very young, etc." There are many that only had to come to earth long enough to get a body, (and I'm not talking about abortion) and then return. Thousands of children under the age of accountability have died and gone to Paradise to await their reunion with their body and then going on to the Celestial world.
Another aspect is since so many young have died and scripture tells us they will be in the Celestial kingdom, why would it be necessary for them to go through another life, possibly do something stupid and lose their promise. Makes no sense, does it? These people have already been celestialized, right? Another life is meaningless to say the least.
I am a deep thinker and so I try to reason through this MMP stuff and find it very, very problematic. I can't just sit and regurgitate the words of others outside of canon and say it's true and can be taken to a bank. Further, I am convinced that "depths of the earth" does not refer to a grave.

"You could also make a case for it after contemplating the 'law of restoration', as outlined in verses from Alma 41 and 42. Maybe someone has already pointed out why this could be the case." I have brought this up repeatedly in my posts. Alma 40-42 is so plain and emphatic about how the body and spirit are reunited and that the two are inseparately connected at the resurrection. For the life of me, I cannot understand how anyone could read it and not know just how the restoration works. But MMP destroys everything we know about our body and spirit are to never be divided again. The two doctrines are lightyears apart.

Now for all those who put stock into everything JS taught and cling to it, here is something he said to consider:

President Joseph Smith read the 11th Chap. II Corinthians. My object is to let you know that I am right here on the spot where I intend to stay. I, like Paul, have been in perils, and oftener than anyone in this generation. As Paul boasted, I have suffered more than Paul did. I should be like a fish out of water, if I were out of persecutions. Perhaps my brethren think it requires all this to keep me humble. The Lord has constituted me so curiously that I glory in persecution. I am not nearly so humble as if I were not persecuted. If oppression will make a wise man mad, much more a fool. If they want a beardless boy to whip all the world, I will get on the top of a mountain and crow like a rooster: I shall always beat them. When facts are proved, truth and innocence will prevail at last. My enemies are no philosophers: they think that when they have my spoke under, they will keep me down; but for the fools, I will hold on and fly over them.

God is in the still small voice. In all these affidavits, indictments, it is all of the devil--all corruption. Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet. You know my daily walk and conversation. I am in the bosom of a virtuous and good people. How I do love to hear the wolves howl! When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go. For the last three years I have a record of all my acts and proceedings, for I have kept several good, faithful, and efficient clerks in constant employ: they have accompanied me everywhere, and carefully kept my history, and they have written down what I have done, where I have been, and what I have said; therefore my enemies cannot charge me with any day, time, or place, but what I have written testimony to prove my actions; and my enemies cannot prove anything against me. They have got wonderful things in the land of Ham. I think the grand jury have strained at a gnat and swallowed the camel.

Source: https://archive.org/details/HistoryOfTh ... /page/n451

Church leaders of today say something like, "other than Jesus Christ, Joseph Smith has done more for the church than any other man." So how does this make orthodox believers feel?

If JS actually said this, and in the inferred mental attitude, then I have little use for Joseph Smith other than he, via God, bringing forth the BoM.

Alaris wrote: ↑March 5th, 2019, 11:29 am

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑March 5th, 2019, 7:59 am What is the scriptural source where we read that anyone will "eventually" make it into Father's kingdom having been reincarnated again and again?

The scriptures indicate to us that if we will live our lives according to every word out of the mouth of God, we then, can eventually be raised into eternal life after this one life on earth.

Your last statement is correct

I'm pleased you said my last statement is correct because I did not say "after this life on earth." I said "after this one life on earth." Meaning the only life needed in order to go to heaven to be with Father.

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑March 6th, 2019, 12:35 am

Alaris wrote: ↑March 5th, 2019, 11:29 am

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑March 5th, 2019, 7:59 am What is the scriptural source where we read that anyone will "eventually" make it into Father's kingdom having been reincarnated again and again?

The scriptures indicate to us that if we will live our lives according to every word out of the mouth of God, we then, can eventually be raised into eternal life after this one life on earth.

Your last statement is correct

I'm pleased you said my last statement is correct because I did not say "after this life on earth." I said "after this one life on earth." Meaning the only life needed in order to go to heaven to be with Father.

That was your takeaway?

I don't think "one" means what you think it means. I think you think "one" means "only." Does "two" not come after "one?"

Please don't answer that. It's rhetorical.

Alaris wrote: ↑March 6th, 2019, 12:42 am

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑March 6th, 2019, 12:35 am

Alaris wrote: ↑March 5th, 2019, 11:29 am

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑March 5th, 2019, 7:59 am What is the scriptural source where we read that anyone will "eventually" make it into Father's kingdom having been reincarnated again and again?

The scriptures indicate to us that if we will live our lives according to every word out of the mouth of God, we then, can eventually be raised into eternal life after this one life on earth.

Your last statement is correct

I'm pleased you said my last statement is correct because I did not say "after this life on earth." I said "after this one life on earth." Meaning the only life needed in order to go to heaven to be with Father.

That was your takeaway?

I don't think "one" means what you think it means. One means just that, one. I think you think "one" means "only." Yes, the one and only life we have to endure. Does "two" not come after "one?" Yes, but what does that have to do with anything pertaining to the one life we have to endure? One, not two, or three or four, etc,. one.

Please don't answer that. It's rhetorical. So is two coming after one out of context.

My statement is fact, we have only one planet life to endure, that's it.

Ya know? I have to give you credit and respect for sticking to your guns. You've stood up to a lot of opposition and kept right on going. That's good, because this is what I am doing. Your beliefs are yours, and mine, mine. Let's simply quit trying to outdo the other and let bygones be bygones, okay. No winner, no loser, just different doctrines and beliefs.
We'll all find out soon enough which doctrine has any weight. After all, either way, one of us will have to eat crow, and who knows, it could end up being me.

What I don’t understand about MMP is eternal marriage. So MMP adherents believe our eternal marriages aren’t actually for forever?

2nd thing is what are the kingdoms of glory supposedly for? Temporary holding pens until the next eternal round?

ori wrote: ↑June 15th, 2019, 9:22 am What I don’t understand about MMP is eternal marriage. So MMP adherents believe our eternal marriages aren’t actually for forever?

2nd thing is what are the kingdoms of glory supposedly for? Temporary holding pens until the next eternal round?

According to Eliza r snow, Joseph said that she and a few others were his wives previously. I take this to mean in other earths.

So eternal marriage can follow multiple probations, but I don’t think it has to. Just because you aren’t together for one probation doesn’t mean you’re not married anymore.

It’s kind of hard to believe in mmp if you don’t believe in polygamy.

ori wrote: ↑June 15th, 2019, 9:22 am What I don’t understand about MMP is eternal marriage. So MMP adherents believe our eternal marriages aren’t actually for forever?

2nd thing is what are the kingdoms of glory supposedly for? Temporary holding pens until the next eternal round?

Marriages can continue into another life. I believe that many of Joseph’s wives from previous lifetimes came back to be with him in then restoration. Eternal marriage now makes more sense with MMP because I know no matter where we are across time and space we are still connected. They surely can last forever but it’s a bit more nuanced. For example Eve became Adam’s wife but I don’t believe she was always the wife of Michael/Adam. For these reasons I don’t get too hung up on forms of polygamy because in the eternities our perspective will drastically alter. Also kingdoms are not just places but also indicative of soul progression. We came from a celestial plane and descended to help this telestial kingdom ascend. It’s something we’ll do throughout eons of time and eternity. Even God became man so man could become God. It’s all one eternal round so nothing is permanent. One must descend in order to progress. Just like you have to pull a arrow string back for it to go forward. There’s no other way. The conventional LDS view of the eternities does not allow for any concrete form of progression. There is a solid reason we are sealed up to kingdom, dominions, principalities, and ETERNAL LIVES!

NewEliza wrote: ↑June 15th, 2019, 9:44 am

ori wrote: ↑June 15th, 2019, 9:22 am What I don’t understand about MMP is eternal marriage. So MMP adherents believe our eternal marriages aren’t actually for forever?

2nd thing is what are the kingdoms of glory supposedly for? Temporary holding pens until the next eternal round?

According to Eliza r snow, Joseph said that she and a few others were his wives previously. I take this to mean in other earths.

So eternal marriage can follow multiple probations, but I don’t think it has to. Just because you aren’t together for one probation doesn’t mean you’re not married anymore.

It’s kind of hard to believe in mmp if you don’t believe in polygamy.

I don’t have a problem with polygamy when God doesn’t have a problem with it. I do have a problem with polyandry. If MMP is true then what’s to stop polyandry? Or put another way, who’s to say my eternally sealed (to me) wife isn’t already taken in a previous round — meaning she’s not really my companion forever?

Spirit

The word spirit is used in several ways in the scriptures. Probably the basic use has to do with the conscious intelligent individual entity that had an existence previous to mortality. That is, all forms of living things—man, beast, and vegetation—existed as individual spirits, before any form of life existed upon the earth. The spirit is in the likeness of the physical body, as demonstrated in Gen. 2:5; 1 Ne. 11:11; Ether 3:15–16; D&C 77:2; 129; Moses 3:4–7. Furthermore, all spirit is matter but is more refined and pure than mortal element (D&C 131:7).

Every person is literally a son or a daughter of God, having been born as a spirit to Heavenly Parents previous to being born to mortal parents on the earth (Heb. 12:9). Thus each one of us is a dual being: an immortal spirit body, clothed with a body of flesh and bone. As defined in scripture, the spirit and the body constitute the mortal soul (D&C 88:15; see also Gen. 2:7; Moses 3:7–9; Abr. 5:7). A spirit can live independent of a body, but the body cannot live without the spirit (James 2:26). In the Resurrection, the immortal spirit is reunited with the same body of flesh and bone it possessed as a mortal, with two major differences: The union will be permanent, and the body will be immortal and perfected. See also Angels; Holy Ghost; Resurrection.


an individual can receive eternal life.
two or more people receiving eternal life is referred to as eternal lives.

Eternal lives is plural not singular. We have only one go around in life, clearly explained in scripture.

Alma 12:24
24 And we see that death comes upon mankind, yea, the death which has been spoken of by Amulek, which is the temporal death; nevertheless there was a space granted unto man in which he might repent; therefore this life became a probationary state; a time to prepare to meet God; a time to prepare for that endless state which has been spoken of by us, which is after the resurrection of the dead.

Alma 42:13
13 Therefore, according to justice, the plan of redemption could not be brought about, only on conditions of repentance of men in this probationary state, yea, this preparatory state; for except it were for these conditions, mercy could not take effect except it should destroy the work of justice. Now the work of justice could not be destroyed; if so, God would cease to be God.

This life is the only one we'll ever get. This life is a probationary state where we are to be tempted and repent of our sins. It is a time to prepare to meet God. Once this life is over, and we have not repented, mercy cannot claim the sinner. Therefore, for those that believe in subsequent lives you'll be going into them with unrepentant sins and mercy will have no effect. You will be lost forever. Justice will have claimed you forever.

This life is not to see how many wives we can get, it is about repentance and and faith on the Lord, Jesus Christ. Jehovah came to this earth to provide man with a way to get back to the Father clean and pure.

The atonement is for ALL mankind from Adam to the last man/woman to be born on this earth.

Can anyone imagine what the Savior went through to take upon him the sins of every single person on this earth? But of course those who do not repent will have the burden of taking their own sins with them after death.

Those who wasted their days of probation, this one life, will not find it easy to navigate another life, if there were one, with so many sins festering within. And even if there were another futuristic Savior, would he want to take upon him sins from another life where the person refused to repent? This would surely be asking a lot, wouldn't it? How about a third or fourth Savior?

So why didn't the person get it right the first time?

ori wrote: ↑June 15th, 2019, 4:13 pm

NewEliza wrote: ↑June 15th, 2019, 9:44 am

ori wrote: ↑June 15th, 2019, 9:22 am What I don’t understand about MMP is eternal marriage. So MMP adherents believe our eternal marriages aren’t actually for forever?

2nd thing is what are the kingdoms of glory supposedly for? Temporary holding pens until the next eternal round?

According to Eliza r snow, Joseph said that she and a few others were his wives previously. I take this to mean in other earths.

So eternal marriage can follow multiple probations, but I don’t think it has to. Just because you aren’t together for one probation doesn’t mean you’re not married anymore.

It’s kind of hard to believe in mmp if you don’t believe in polygamy.

I don’t have a problem with polygamy when God doesn’t have a problem with it. I do have a problem with polyandry. If MMP is true then what’s to stop polyandry? Or put another way, who’s to say my eternally sealed (to me) wife isn’t already taken in a previous round — meaning she’s not really my companion forever?

And what about a wife having to go from man to man, bearing children by each not knowing who she is really sealed to? Just how many bodies can one spirit possess anyway, since the first body is permanently attached forever?

Wouldn't it be most difficult to have a woman give birth to a seven foot, 275 pound, full grown body?

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑June 15th, 2019, 5:25 pm This life is the only one we'll ever get.

Even if we did go to another earth for another go at mortality, the view that this life is the only one we'll ever get is a better view for most of us, than to say, "I can take it easy this time. I'll get it right in the next go-round."

I think we should live this life as if it is our one shot at getting it right (even though we screw up over and over and over, Christ makes it possible for us to "get it right" courtesy of him carrying our sins).

Better to work hard at this life, then discover there's another one down the road than to think there's another one down the road, only to be mistaken. Besides that, if there are mortal rounds, taking this particular life seriously (as the only one) would make us be on a higher level, thus maybe living on a terrestrial planet instead of a telestial one.

For myself, though, going through something akin to this life again and again is more than I can bear.

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑June 15th, 2019, 5:25 pmSo why didn't the person get it right the first time?

I think the idea is that people grow incrementally. Whatever they've gained (or lost) is carried with them to the next realm they live in. In other words, they are added upon, and if they continue to progress upward throughout the rounds, they slowly make their way to the level of Savior to others under them.

I know there are people who believe in a "one and only" and I know people who knew who they were going to marry as soon as they met them. In one case, it was a toxic marriage, but whose to say that they didn't have "karma" to work out between them, or something to learn through this marriage.

What I'm trying to get at is this: if MMP is true (and I'm not talking about reincarnation, which is returning to this earth over and over again, but the idea of God's work being one eternal round of sending kids to mortality, then they go into eternity, then they go to mortality (telestial, terrestrial, or celestial), then to eternity, round and round until they reach whatever level gets them off the ferris wheel) - if it is true, and a couple was sealed together by heaven in one mortality, it seems a cruel God who would prevent them from having the opportunity to meet and marry in the next mortalities. I mean, they'd still have their choices to say yes or no, but if their souls were truly knit together in the round before, wouldn't they sincerely be drawn to each other?

ori wrote: ↑June 15th, 2019, 4:13 pm I don’t have a problem with polygamy when God doesn’t have a problem with it. I do have a problem with polyandry. If MMP is true then what’s to stop polyandry? Or put another way, who’s to say my eternally sealed (to me) wife isn’t already taken in a previous round — meaning she’s not really my companion forever?

Silver Pie wrote: ↑June 15th, 2019, 7:40 pm it seems a cruel God who would prevent them from having the opportunity to meet and marry in the next mortalities.....but if their souls were truly knit together in the round before, wouldn't they sincerely be drawn to each other?

Here are some of my thoughts:

If we are progressing through multiple probations and getting better each time, getting a higher calling each time, I think our 'main' spouse will be the one that goes with us, at least for the most important ‘callings’. I think josephs wife was probably his same original first wife, and I think Jesus’ wife was probably his original first wife, because when you are actually in the role of your next ‘step’ in progressing, it is ideal that you do it together with the person you made that original covenant with.

(But it is perfectly conceivable to me that there might be times when a ‘filler’ spouse is needed and you are separated for a time to do a different job. I don’t have a problem with that)

However, if after we become saviors and after we have become the highest level of god there is, our work and glory is STILL to 'bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.' So the question is, do we ever stop going to new worlds and bringing more children there? If we dont ever stop, then I imagine that we would go to many worlds with many different spouses and begin many different families.

I dont really have a problem with polyandry, because if my husband has multiple wives and loves them, and wants to go do a mortality with one of them, then I dont want to just sit around haha. I want to go do another mortality too, and have more children and more family, of course!

It helps also to remember that polygamy isn’t just some random free for all, it is in an order. Men seal their wives to their ‘father’ (Higher in authority than them). That’s why Brigham said some of the things he did, and that’s why all of Joseph’s wives went to brigham when he died, because since joseph was no longer there, the next highest in authority on earth was Brigham. Eventually, joseph will seal everything he has to his father, just like we learn that Jesus will seal everything he has to his father.

Benaishtart wrote: ↑March 1st, 2019, 1:58 pmEveryone on here who is so adamant against this is just terrified out of their wits to be a savior. It’s like leaving the house. You can’t do it at 5 years old but by 17 you’ll be yearning for it to happen.

I've thought about this several times. Not your post, but the idea that I'm too young (as it were) to be able to handle the idea of doing something like this (whether females ever do the 'savior" thing is beside the point I'm trying to make). Perhaps, if mmp is a real thing, after I've done them a bunch of times (if I do), I might be less agonized over the idea of being forced to have a zillion mortalities before I get it right (or whatever happens).

Silver Pie wrote: ↑August 12th, 2019, 10:34 pm

Benaishtart wrote: ↑March 1st, 2019, 1:58 pmEveryone on here who is so adamant against this is just terrified out of their wits to be a savior. It’s like leaving the house. You can’t do it at 5 years old but by 17 you’ll be yearning for it to happen.

I've thought about this several times. Not your post, but the idea that I'm too young (as it were) to be able to handle the idea of doing something like this (whether females ever do the 'savior" thing is beside the point I'm trying to make). Perhaps, if mmp is a real thing, after I've done them a bunch of times (if I do), I might be less agonized over the idea of being forced to have a zillion mortalities before I get it right (or whatever happens).

Ephraim aligns to the 5th of seven levels - the Lord Jesus Christ aligns to the 8th level. Though I supposed there could be multiple attempts, families ascend together - which, imho - implies there isn't a lot of wheels spinning without going forward.

We are anointed to become priests and priestesses - level 6 - and kings and queens - level 7. This isn't even a 12 step program but a 7. Certainly not a zillion step program

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... adder.html