LDS Bishop Removed Following Human Trafficking Sting

[LukeAir2008]

[mtm411]

Did this bishop acquire the services of an under-age prostitute? If not, why are people trying to make this a case against the Church having leaders around young kids?

Unlike the Catholic Church, which has come under fire for a number of years, we do not ban human relationships for leaders, and therefore wind up with people with issues trying to escape their thoughts and feelings by running to their priesthood. Our bishops also are in the public eye quite a bit and generally have large families so it is harder to conceal sinful behavior.

Overall, I think our leaders are less inclined to commit sexual sins, or break secular laws regulating sex, than most people in our population. Some do mess up, and the media tends to focus on them being LDS, but overall it is a tiny number who do.

Even if she wasn't underage, women and teens are still meeting with the Bishop to confess sexual sins. It's hard to believe that a guy this sick isn't enjoying those confessions.

I would agree that the vast majority 99.9 percent of Bishops are good men, but no one should meet one on one with minors. For their own protection, too. I wouldn't be behind closed doors with a minor I am not related to and I am female.

There was another case in Utah where an active Bishop was actively pursuing boys even in their homes to talk to them about masturbation and making them extremely uncomfortable. He was recently removed from his calling when the police came to investigate it all.

We've normalized to our youth that grown men, especially those that hold the priesthood, can and should be chatting with them about their sexual lives- and it just primes them to not notice when that's crossed a line and makes them vulnerable to abuse.

I think it's very likely that the church at some point explicitly limits the sins that need to be resolved between an adult individual and a priesthood leader. Confession is the law of the gospel, but we too often forget that the confession to the Lord is the important step. A Bishop has no power to forgive.

[Juliet]

I may be missing something here.
Since which has operating as a pimp become people trafficking?

My understanding is the human trafficking term was used by Donald Trump's executive order to take away assets from human traffickors as a nice way of saying pedophiles. And even that is a nice of way of saying Satanic ritual abuse.

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/ ... a0bc6.html



According to the Utah County Sheriff’s Office, undercover detectives made contact with 29-year-old Richard Michael Martin of Riverton and 51-year-old David N. Moss of Lehi through social media as part of that operation, which was originally targeting human trafficking.


Detectives established contact on social media with Martin on Feb. 12, and Martin reportedly believed he was talking to a mother of 12- and 6-year-old girls. According to the UCSO, Martin described wanting to engage in oral sex with both girls and other sexual acts with the 6-year-old. Martin also reportedly told the undercover detective that he wanted both girls to perform oral sex on him.
The UCSO said that as part of a previous case, detectives made social media contact with Martin in 2016, when he believed he was communicating with a 13-year-old girl. In that conversation, he reportedly described wanting to engage in sexual intercourse and oral sex with the girl. At that time, detectives were unable to meet in person with Martin.

[djinwa]

"Because they didn't ask, and he didn't tell."

Didn't the leaders that called him pray for inspiration?

Why do a background check if callings are inspired?

Probably for the same reason General Authorities lean heavily on focus groups and pilot programs before revelatory new policy changes.

Somewhere I got the idea that our church leaders have a special connection to God, that others lack. That is how I used to get converts.

Then apparently when such inspiration is lacking, we just say we needed to let free agency or consequences happen, and let kids be molested or whatever, and then the perp will someday be punished.

Personally, if I was an all-knowing, all-powerful god, I wouldn't be able to allow kids to be abused. I guess that is a weakness of mine. I sometimes fantasize about what I'd do to someone who did such things to my kids or grandkids. I don't see any excuse for allowing that to happen.

Apparently I don't understand the grand scheme of things.

[sandman45]

Just a few years ago one was excommunicated for child sex abuse.

I think you will find it was 30 years ago, and it wasn't for child sex abuse.
George P. Lee was excommunicated for apostasy.
The allegations re. child sex abuse came to light later.

Thanks for clarification Robin Hood

[Thinker]

"Because they didn't ask, and he didn't tell."

Didn't the leaders that called him pray for inspiration?

Why do a background check if callings are inspired?

Probably for the same reason General Authorities lean heavily on focus groups and pilot programs before revelatory new policy changes.

Somewhere I got the idea that our church leaders have a special connection to God, that others lack. That is how I used to get converts.

Then apparently when such inspiration is lacking, we just say we needed to let free agency or consequences happen, and let kids be molested or whatever, and then the perp will someday be punished.

Personally, if I was an all-knowing, all-powerful god, I wouldn't be able to allow kids to be abused. I guess that is a weakness of mine. I sometimes fantasize about what I'd do to someone who did such things to my kids or grandkids. I don't see any excuse for allowing that to happen.

Apparently I don't understand the grand scheme of things.

Let’s say that God DID prevent anyone from doing ANYTHING wrong - not just child abuse, but also every time you said any cuss word - you were punished. I know, cussing isn’t the same - and yet both are some degree of immoral. Where should God draw the line? If God is going to control us in any sin - why not control all sins?

Who is God? Is God a tyrannical Grandpa in the Sky watching all, just waiting to punish? Or is God the GOoD within each of us? I believe following Christ involves doing as he did and taking response-ability when we can. E.g., A kid grows up abused and neglected, reaching out to many people - including me - and all ignore or reject him. Not having the necessary attention, help and guidance to overcome his traumas - he repeats them. Ultimately, he is responsible for what he does - but aren’t I and everyone who could have helped but didn’t - somewhat response-able?

[djinwa]

Let's be consistent.

We brag about God finding our car keys, or we ask God to bless the refreshments (junk food) at church, yet we don't expect him to offer help to keep a kid from being molested?

If we expect earthly parents to protect their kids, why not heavenly parents? Yeah, I know, have to let them learn from being molested, etc, etc.

Yes, there are a lot of struggles and problems we can learn from. But I don't see what is gained by being molested or raped or tortured or severely abused. Apparently I just don't understand the gospel.

No point discussing this further.

[Juliet]

Let's be consistent.

We brag about God finding our car keys, or we ask God to bless the refreshments (junk food) at church, yet we don't expect him to offer help to keep a kid from being molested?

If we expect earthly parents to protect their kids, why not heavenly parents? Yeah, I know, have to let them learn from being molested, etc, etc.

Yes, there are a lot of struggles and problems we can learn from. But I don't see what is gained by being molested or raped or tortured or severely abused. Apparently I just don't understand the gospel.

No point discussing this further.

When we pray for Heavenly Father to stop child abuse, it does work. It really works. We just don't pray and put in as much heart and faith into our God as the bad guys put into theirs.

This is a religious battle all the way. Satan wants suffering and he wants it for the children as young as possible. Suffering is how he brings people into his fold.

When we serve others and show them love, when we feed people, ease their pain, give a listening ear, give companionship to the lonely, we win souls for Christ. We have to bless each other's lives for Jesus to win. This is a behavior war. Can we bring joy and love to each other faster and better than the bad guys can pray down pain and suffering. Have I done anything good in the world today? If not I have failed myself. I have failed God. I have failed my neighbor.

Good treatment makes good horses, Joe. Bad treatment, ruins them.
--Black Beauty Warner Bros

[Thinker]

Let's be consistent.

We brag about God finding our car keys, or we ask God to bless the refreshments (junk food) at church, yet we don't expect him to offer help to keep a kid from being molested?

If we expect earthly parents to protect their kids, why not heavenly parents? Yeah, I know, have to let them learn from being molested, etc, etc.

Yes, there are a lot of struggles and problems we can learn from. But I don't see what is gained by being molested or raped or tortured or severely abused. Apparently I just don't understand the gospel.

No point discussing this further.

Juliet responded well. I’ll just add a bit.

From what I have learned so far, there are 3 main aspects of God which can be symbolically represented by Wizard of Oz characters...
1) Brain - intelligent design. This is blatently obvious.

Spoiler

2) Heart - the Spirit you feel within like testifying of truth or when you feel very grateful. This & #1 are more unconditional in that they can be experienced without depending on others

3) Courage - tuning in to spiritual guidance and acting on it. But often we don’t. We are God’s hands - we help answer each other’s prayers - or not. This is the part of God that allows us to grow or not - & is the part that causes some to give up on God altogether.

And Djinwa, who do you hurt by giving up on God? Consider where you experience God (within you).

[righteousrepublic]

Thankyou. I guess what I am saying is, if we had a society that allowed free agency, why the need for anyone to hide their sins? Is it not to avoid punishment?

The problem is, as soon as we think it's ok to be open about sin, we swing to the opposite end of the pendulum, and say that the sin is healthy. But common sense can show how it is not. A sin is a sin because it brings desolation.

Look at how prostitutes were viewed in the middle ages....you couldn't go lower. Well now, we have much compassion for prostitutes. However, the compassion was not geared to healing people and helping them see the reward in choosing what is right.

Now, the same is true for homosexuality.

If it is true for prostitution and homosexuality, what about murder?

I often wonder about the wording of Isaiah, that Jesus carried our shame. If we were not ashamed of our sins, why would a perfect person be so triggering? Surely Jesus was a threat to wickedness so He had to be put to death.

On the other hand, someone honest in heart would be drawn to Jesus for help overcoming their sins.

So when does getting help overcoming sins turn into shame and hiding sins? Is it not the fear of punishment for confessing your wrongs?

Could it be that good people have made it impossible for bad people to come to Christ and be healed by setting up laws of punishment instead of truth and hope as an antitode to sin?

I was impressed by a story of a man who had a severe sexual addiction and he was addicted to porn and hard abuse of women. The psychologist helped him see that his mother had made him be her emotional support when he was a kid, due to her marriage problems or divorce.

His addiction was tied to his unforigiveness toward his mother, for stealing his childhood emotionally; something he never consciously understood he needed to forgive her for. When he found out this was the case, the addiction dropped. He was completely healed.

To me, that showed me how powerful the truth can be. It can heal us and set us free. It seems society has a limit to who is allowed a second chance and who is not.

But perhaps as long as God gives someone breath, God believes in the person's chance to come unto Christ and have their burdens made light.

Alma 42
17 Now, how could a man repent except he should sin? How could he sin if there was no law? How could there be a law save there was a punishment?

18 Now, there was a punishment affixed, and a just law given, which brought remorse of conscience unto man.

19 Now, if there was no law given—if a man murdered he should die—would he be afraid he would die if he should murder?

20 And also, if there was no law given against sin men would not be afraid to sin.

21 And if there was no law given, if men sinned what could justice do, or mercy either, for they would have no claim upon the creature?

22 But there is a law given, and a punishment affixed, and a repentance granted; which repentance, mercy claimeth; otherwise, justice claimeth the creature and executeth the law, and the law inflicteth the punishment; if not so, the works of justice would be destroyed, and God would cease to be God.

23 But God ceaseth not to be God, and mercy claimeth the penitent, and mercy cometh because of the atonement; and the atonement bringeth to pass the resurrection of the dead; and the resurrection of the dead bringeth back men into the presence of God; and thus they are restored into his presence, to be judged according to their works, according to the law and justice.

24 For behold, justice exerciseth all his demands, and also mercy claimeth all which is her own; and thus, none but the truly penitent are saved.

25 What, do ye suppose that mercy can rob justice? I say unto you, Nay; not one whit. If so, God would cease to be God.

26 And thus God bringeth about his great and eternal purposes, which were prepared from the foundation of the world. And thus cometh about the salvation and the redemption of men, and also their destruction and misery.

God will sort out all the aspects of these heinous crimes against humanity.
I believe God will pass out severe punishment to the unrepentant perps, and mercy to the victims even if there are long term hurt and disappointment to be carried for many years.

However, for sinners to point fingers at other sinners and call them a sinner could backfire on the finger pointer.

[righteousrepublic]

"Because they didn't ask, and he didn't tell."

Didn't the leaders that called him pray for inspiration?

Why do a background check if callings are inspired?

Probably for the same reason General Authorities lean heavily on focus groups and pilot programs before revelatory new policy changes.

Somewhere I got the idea that our church leaders have a special connection to God, that others lack. That is how I used to get converts.

Then apparently when such inspiration is lacking, we just say we needed to let free agency or consequences happen, and let kids be molested or whatever, and then the perp will someday be punished.

Personally, if I was an all-knowing, all-powerful god, I wouldn't be able to allow kids to be abused. I guess that is a weakness of mine. I sometimes fantasize about what I'd do to someone who did such things to my kids or grandkids. I don't see any excuse for allowing that to happen.

Apparently I don't understand the grand scheme of things.

Proverbs 3:5,6

[Juliet]

Thankyou. I guess what I am saying is, if we had a society that allowed free agency, why the need for anyone to hide their sins? Is it not to avoid punishment?

The problem is, as soon as we think it's ok to be open about sin, we swing to the opposite end of the pendulum, and say that the sin is healthy. But common sense can show how it is not. A sin is a sin because it brings desolation.

Look at how prostitutes were viewed in the middle ages....you couldn't go lower. Well now, we have much compassion for prostitutes. However, the compassion was not geared to healing people and helping them see the reward in choosing what is right.

Now, the same is true for homosexuality.

If it is true for prostitution and homosexuality, what about murder?

I often wonder about the wording of Isaiah, that Jesus carried our shame. If we were not ashamed of our sins, why would a perfect person be so triggering? Surely Jesus was a threat to wickedness so He had to be put to death.

On the other hand, someone honest in heart would be drawn to Jesus for help overcoming their sins.

So when does getting help overcoming sins turn into shame and hiding sins? Is it not the fear of punishment for confessing your wrongs?

Could it be that good people have made it impossible for bad people to come to Christ and be healed by setting up laws of punishment instead of truth and hope as an antitode to sin?

I was impressed by a story of a man who had a severe sexual addiction and he was addicted to porn and hard abuse of women. The psychologist helped him see that his mother had made him be her emotional support when he was a kid, due to her marriage problems or divorce.

His addiction was tied to his unforigiveness toward his mother, for stealing his childhood emotionally; something he never consciously understood he needed to forgive her for. When he found out this was the case, the addiction dropped. He was completely healed.

To me, that showed me how powerful the truth can be. It can heal us and set us free. It seems society has a limit to who is allowed a second chance and who is not.

But perhaps as long as God gives someone breath, God believes in the person's chance to come unto Christ and have their burdens made light.

Alma 42
17 Now, how could a man repent except he should sin? How could he sin if there was no law? How could there be a law save there was a punishment?

18 Now, there was a punishment affixed, and a just law given, which brought remorse of conscience unto man.

19 Now, if there was no law given—if a man murdered he should die—would he be afraid he would die if he should murder?

20 And also, if there was no law given against sin men would not be afraid to sin.

21 And if there was no law given, if men sinned what could justice do, or mercy either, for they would have no claim upon the creature?

22 But there is a law given, and a punishment affixed, and a repentance granted; which repentance, mercy claimeth; otherwise, justice claimeth the creature and executeth the law, and the law inflicteth the punishment; if not so, the works of justice would be destroyed, and God would cease to be God.

23 But God ceaseth not to be God, and mercy claimeth the penitent, and mercy cometh because of the atonement; and the atonement bringeth to pass the resurrection of the dead; and the resurrection of the dead bringeth back men into the presence of God; and thus they are restored into his presence, to be judged according to their works, according to the law and justice.

24 For behold, justice exerciseth all his demands, and also mercy claimeth all which is her own; and thus, none but the truly penitent are saved.

25 What, do ye suppose that mercy can rob justice? I say unto you, Nay; not one whit. If so, God would cease to be God.

26 And thus God bringeth about his great and eternal purposes, which were prepared from the foundation of the world. And thus cometh about the salvation and the redemption of men, and also their destruction and misery.

God will sort out all the aspects of these heinous crimes against humanity.
I believe God will pass out severe punishment to the unrepentant perps, and mercy to the victims even if there are long term hurt and disappointment to be carried for many years.

However, for sinners to point fingers at other sinners and call them a sinner could backfire on the finger pointer.

Right, the context of the scripture is a father teaching his son after he used his agency to sin. The consequence his father supplied was to teach him eternal and spiritual truths, which are the consequences already provided by God.