LDS Bishop Removed Following Human Trafficking Sting

[farmerchick]

So know one except the person calling him knows for sure if he was inspired to call this very nasty wicked under the covers member, who worked all sorts of iniquity and evil under the guise of righteousness. The law of free agency over rides many things. Are we a people who abide by everlasting principles that let all choose their path? Or are we going to circumvent the process of the gospel plan? while I think we should be very wary of leaders and not trust those who we have no experience with, no one can know the thoughts and secret proclivities of the natural man who is also working out his mortal probation with us, sometimes in power of authority over us. Very few should be trusted. We have to be prudent about who we trust and use our agency for our good. It just comes down to faith in Jesus Christ and our understanding of the gospel philosophy and principles that are everlasting and the foundational underpinnings of eternity. If we are victimized by these people, it is a tragic thing and something many of us can't overcome here on earth. In fact, I believe in my heart there is nothing worse than a endowed member, bishop ect. Doing something like this The consequences can have a ripple effect over generations of people, that's where faith hope and charity come in, if a person really believes that. The atonement works forwards backwards and sideways, if you believe in Jesus Christ. Justice and mercy will make this fair in the end.... if you believe in the gospel..... if not the jaws of Hell are waiting to snatch the elect any way it can. Thwarting free agency is thwarting the plan of happiness. We have no idea what the Lord has in store for this obviously heinous offender of the weak, but I can tell you, he used his agency to the point of serious consequences here and after. The plan put forth by the Savior is in full action and motion and the Lucifer is eager and willing to do anything to take away our agency, because then he wins..... that's the bigger picture here..... in my most humble opinion.

[Chip]

Below that story was another story about a bishop in Draper, Utah, from two months ago:

https://fox13now.com/2018/12/13/lds-bis ... in-church/

At one point he said Head locked him in a car with him and told him “we have to figure this masturbation thing out. You’re not leaving until we figure this out.”

The charging documents state Head went on to discuss the victim’s and his own masturbation habits.

The victim said he could have left but did not because “Defendant was supposed to be a family friend, a leader for him to look up to, and that Defendant would be angry if [Victim] ran away from defendant.”

That same boy told police that one week later Head entered his home without permission, sat on a bed near the victim and and discussed masturbation with the victim as he was shirtless. The juvenile said he had to ask Head to leave three times before the man exited the home. The juvenile’s younger sibling corroborated the account.

Bishop Head. "Figuring it out" on his own now.

[Robin Hood]

We have a principle in English law encapsulated by the phrase "innocent until proven guilty".
David Moss must be permitted due process and I am surprised at the detail and presumption of guilt outlined in the press reports.

[David13]

We have a principle in English law encapsulated by the phrase "innocent until proven guilty".
David Moss must be permitted due process and I am surprised at the detail and presumption of guilt outlined in the press reports.

RH That is a ... presumption.

And what is a presumption? A ... fiction.

dc

[Vision]

"Because they didn't ask, and he didn't tell."

Didn't the leaders that called him pray for inspiration?

Why do a background check if callings are inspired?

Lets be honest, not all callings are inspired.

[John Tavner]

We have a principle in English law encapsulated by the phrase "innocent until proven guilty".
David Moss must be permitted due process and I am surprised at the detail and presumption of guilt outlined in the press reports.

We used to have that same principle in the States, but it seems to have been forgotten.

[Juliet]

So know one except the person calling him knows for sure if he was inspired to call this very nasty wicked under the covers member, who worked all sorts of iniquity and evil under the guise of righteousness. The law of free agency over rides many things. Are we a people who abide by everlasting principles that let all choose their path? Or are we going to circumvent the process of the gospel plan? while I think we should be very wary of leaders and not trust those who we have no experience with, no one can know the thoughts and secret proclivities of the natural man who is also working out his mortal probation with us, sometimes in power of authority over us. Very few should be trusted. We have to be prudent about who we trust and use our agency for our good. It just comes down to faith in Jesus Christ and our understanding of the gospel philosophy and principles that are everlasting and the foundational underpinnings of eternity. If we are victimized by these people, it is a tragic thing and something many of us can't overcome here on earth. In fact, I believe in my heart there is nothing worse than a endowed member, bishop ect. Doing something like this The consequences can have a ripple effect over generations of people, that's where faith hope and charity come in, if a person really believes that. The atonement works forwards backwards and sideways, if you believe in Jesus Christ. Justice and mercy will make this fair in the end.... if you believe in the gospel..... if not the jaws of Hell are waiting to snatch the elect any way it can. Thwarting free agency is thwarting the plan of happiness. We have no idea what the Lord has in store for this obviously heinous offender of the weak, but I can tell you, he used his agency to the point of serious consequences here and after. The plan put forth by the Savior is in full action and motion and the Lucifer is eager and willing to do anything to take away our agency, because then he wins..... that's the bigger picture here..... in my most humble opinion.

I am sure the gift of free agency was to bring to pass something good in the end.

I feel like the psychology is simple. Good leads to good. Death leads to death.

So, at what point do good people pass death upon bad people? Does this make good people bad? Does this make bad people good?

What if good people pass good to bad people?

I think society ought to try it. Instead of punishing someone for being bad, what if we blessed them?

Because good brings forth good.

What I don't agree with, is lying and covering up the truth so that wickedness can spread without most people's awareness.

I mean, we already know this when we get a puppy. Find a book on how to train your pet if they do something wrong, that includes punishment. Everything I read regards to training a pet is to reward it and never punish it. So how come we treat dogs better than humans?

[John Tavner]

So know one except the person calling him knows for sure if he was inspired to call this very nasty wicked under the covers member, who worked all sorts of iniquity and evil under the guise of righteousness. The law of free agency over rides many things. Are we a people who abide by everlasting principles that let all choose their path? Or are we going to circumvent the process of the gospel plan? while I think we should be very wary of leaders and not trust those who we have no experience with, no one can know the thoughts and secret proclivities of the natural man who is also working out his mortal probation with us, sometimes in power of authority over us. Very few should be trusted. We have to be prudent about who we trust and use our agency for our good. It just comes down to faith in Jesus Christ and our understanding of the gospel philosophy and principles that are everlasting and the foundational underpinnings of eternity. If we are victimized by these people, it is a tragic thing and something many of us can't overcome here on earth. In fact, I believe in my heart there is nothing worse than a endowed member, bishop ect. Doing something like this The consequences can have a ripple effect over generations of people, that's where faith hope and charity come in, if a person really believes that. The atonement works forwards backwards and sideways, if you believe in Jesus Christ. Justice and mercy will make this fair in the end.... if you believe in the gospel..... if not the jaws of Hell are waiting to snatch the elect any way it can. Thwarting free agency is thwarting the plan of happiness. We have no idea what the Lord has in store for this obviously heinous offender of the weak, but I can tell you, he used his agency to the point of serious consequences here and after. The plan put forth by the Savior is in full action and motion and the Lucifer is eager and willing to do anything to take away our agency, because then he wins..... that's the bigger picture here..... in my most humble opinion.

I am sure the gift of free agency was to bring to pass something good in the end.

I feel like the psychology is simple. Good leads to good. Death leads to death.

So, at what point do good people pass death upon bad people? Does this make good people bad? Does this make bad people good?

What if good people pass good to bad people?

I think society ought to try it. Instead of punishing someone for being bad, what if we blessed them?

Because good brings forth good.

What I don't agree with, is lying and covering up the truth so that wickedness can spread without most people's awareness.

I mean, we already know this when we get a puppy. Find a book on how to train your pet if they do something wrong, that includes punishment. Everything I read regards to training a pet is to reward it and never punish it. So how come we treat dogs better than humans?

Somewhere in your words are found the similar words the Savior speaks in Luke 6 Yet we often do not apply those words to ourselves - I include myself in this.

[Juliet]

So know one except the person calling him knows for sure if he was inspired to call this very nasty wicked under the covers member, who worked all sorts of iniquity and evil under the guise of righteousness. The law of free agency over rides many things. Are we a people who abide by everlasting principles that let all choose their path? Or are we going to circumvent the process of the gospel plan? while I think we should be very wary of leaders and not trust those who we have no experience with, no one can know the thoughts and secret proclivities of the natural man who is also working out his mortal probation with us, sometimes in power of authority over us. Very few should be trusted. We have to be prudent about who we trust and use our agency for our good. It just comes down to faith in Jesus Christ and our understanding of the gospel philosophy and principles that are everlasting and the foundational underpinnings of eternity. If we are victimized by these people, it is a tragic thing and something many of us can't overcome here on earth. In fact, I believe in my heart there is nothing worse than a endowed member, bishop ect. Doing something like this The consequences can have a ripple effect over generations of people, that's where faith hope and charity come in, if a person really believes that. The atonement works forwards backwards and sideways, if you believe in Jesus Christ. Justice and mercy will make this fair in the end.... if you believe in the gospel..... if not the jaws of Hell are waiting to snatch the elect any way it can. Thwarting free agency is thwarting the plan of happiness. We have no idea what the Lord has in store for this obviously heinous offender of the weak, but I can tell you, he used his agency to the point of serious consequences here and after. The plan put forth by the Savior is in full action and motion and the Lucifer is eager and willing to do anything to take away our agency, because then he wins..... that's the bigger picture here..... in my most humble opinion.

I am sure the gift of free agency was to bring to pass something good in the end.

I feel like the psychology is simple. Good leads to good. Death leads to death.

So, at what point do good people pass death upon bad people? Does this make good people bad? Does this make bad people good?

What if good people pass good to bad people?

I think society ought to try it. Instead of punishing someone for being bad, what if we blessed them?

Because good brings forth good.

What I don't agree with, is lying and covering up the truth so that wickedness can spread without most people's awareness.

I mean, we already know this when we get a puppy. Find a book on how to train your pet if they do something wrong, that includes punishment. Everything I read regards to training a pet is to reward it and never punish it. So how come we treat dogs better than humans?

Somewhere in your words are found the similar words the Savior speaks in Luke 6 Yet we often do not apply those words to ourselves - I include myself in this.

Thankyou. I guess what I am saying is, if we had a society that allowed free agency, why the need for anyone to hide their sins? Is it not to avoid punishment?

The problem is, as soon as we think it's ok to be open about sin, we swing to the opposite end of the pendulum, and say that the sin is healthy. But common sense can show how it is not. A sin is a sin because it brings desolation.

Look at how prostitutes were viewed in the middle ages....you couldn't go lower. Well now, we have much compassion for prostitutes. However, the compassion was not geared to healing people and helping them see the reward in choosing what is right.

Now, the same is true for homosexuality.

If it is true for prostitution and homosexuality, what about murder?

I often wonder about the wording of Isaiah, that Jesus carried our shame. If we were not ashamed of our sins, why would a perfect person be so triggering? Surely Jesus was a threat to wickedness so He had to be put to death.

On the other hand, someone honest in heart would be drawn to Jesus for help overcoming their sins.

So when does getting help overcoming sins turn into shame and hiding sins? Is it not the fear of punishment for confessing your wrongs?

Could it be that good people have made it impossible for bad people to come to Christ and be healed by setting up laws of punishment instead of truth and hope as an antitode to sin?

I was impressed by a story of a man who had a severe sexual addiction and he was addicted to porn and hard abuse of women. The psychologist helped him see that his mother had made him be her emotional support when he was a kid, due to her marriage problems or divorce.

His addiction was tied to his unforigiveness toward his mother, for stealing his childhood emotionally; something he never consciously understood he needed to forgive her for. When he found out this was the case, the addiction dropped. He was completely healed.

To me, that showed me how powerful the truth can be. It can heal us and set us free. It seems society has a limit to who is allowed a second chance and who is not.

But perhaps as long as God gives someone breath, God believes in the person's chance to come unto Christ and have their burdens made light.

[Col. Flagg]

"Because they didn't ask, and he didn't tell."

Didn't the leaders that called him pray for inspiration?

Why do a background check if callings are inspired?

Lets be honest, not all callings are inspired.

We've had several instances over the past few years in two wards we've been in where a pregnant mother of several children was called by the Bishop to be Relief Society President. Inspired? Revelation? Even had a few men called to be Cub Scout leaders who had been laid off, were struggling and going to school in the evenings. But the bigger problem is those individuals accepting because they think they're supposed to and can't turn down a calling since it comes from God himself only to not even be able to devote the time and effort necessary to fulfill those callings as expected.

[Original_Intent]

We have a principle in English law encapsulated by the phrase "innocent until proven guilty".
David Moss must be permitted due process and I am surprised at the detail and presumption of guilt outlined in the press reports.

He admitted to all of it already, other than that he had said he "ran other girls". That's the only point in dispute, I believe.

[Robin Hood]

We have a principle in English law encapsulated by the phrase "innocent until proven guilty".
David Moss must be permitted due process and I am surprised at the detail and presumption of guilt outlined in the press reports.

He admitted to all of it already, other than that he had said he "ran other girls". That's the only point in dispute, I believe.

Surely though, even with a confession, the prosecution case still has to prove it's case, or at least wait until the court hearing has concluded before ascribing guilt. No?

[investigator]

The REAL NEWS in this story is that an LDS BISHOP was arrested for his involvement in prostitution. People in every state every day are involved in prostitution in one way or another. The fact that it was an LDS BISHOP is the news. Yet both KSL and Deseret News failed to mention that in their initial reports. Which just goes to show that they are more propaganda arms of the LDS church than they are real NEWS agencies.

[investigator]

All calls to the office of Bishop are approved by the First Presidency in official correspondence signed by the First Presidency. In addition to that, after a Bishop is ordained there is an official Bishop's Certification that is also signed by the First Presidency. Unless of course, some minion in the church office building is provided a signature stamp and they are actually the ones putting the stamp of approval on those documents. I would think that the church should at least conduct a minimal background investigation before allowing a person unfettered access to interview children and or/adults one on one behind closed doors and providing that person with a stamp of approval from the highest governing body of the church, The First Presidency.

[gigarath24]

I spent sometime in lockup a few years back in TDC (Texas Department of Criminal Justice) for fraud with a financial instrument). I am glad this dude is going to jail, because I can tell you with great confidence that this little (insert colorful language here) wont last 5 minutes in general population. Hell, if I knew I could get locked up with this dude I might rob a store just to get close to this guy myself.

[investigator]

I spent sometime in lockup a few years back in TDC (Texas Department of Criminal Justice) for fraud with a financial instrument). I am glad this dude is going to jail, because I can tell you with great confidence that this little (insert colorful language here) wont last 5 minutes in general population. Hell, if I knew I could get locked up with this dude I might rob a store just to get close to this guy myself.

It is doubtful that Moss will go to prison and truthfully I don't think that he should. With our justice system, I see probation in his future.

[gigarath24]

I spent sometime in lockup a few years back in TDC (Texas Department of Criminal Justice) for fraud with a financial instrument). I am glad this dude is going to jail, because I can tell you with great confidence that this little (insert colorful language here) wont last 5 minutes in general population. Hell, if I knew I could get locked up with this dude I might rob a store just to get close to this guy myself.

It is doubtful that Moss will go to prison and truthfully I don't think that he should. With our justice system, I see probation in his future.

For human trafficking in Utah, yeah, no. He's going to prison.

[investigator]

I spent sometime in lockup a few years back in TDC (Texas Department of Criminal Justice) for fraud with a financial instrument). I am glad this dude is going to jail, because I can tell you with great confidence that this little (insert colorful language here) wont last 5 minutes in general population. Hell, if I knew I could get locked up with this dude I might rob a store just to get close to this guy myself.

It is doubtful that Moss will go to prison and truthfully I don't think that he should. With our justice system, I see probation in his future.

For human trafficking in Utah, yeah, no. He's going to prison.

Let the wagering begin.

[JohnnyL]

I hate hearing stories like this, but I am glad he was caught. A good reminder that ALL of our leaders are "mere mortals" - granted in most cases I think GAs have been well-vetted. But no one is above temptation and failing. I've seen far worse, tbh, and from people that if you knew them you would never think them capable of hurting a fly.

Doubt it. I bet there are many GAs that get away with things. Just a few years ago one was excommunicated for child sex abuse.

Wherever there is authority and power and money that’s where people get corrupted by it. Also many scumbags are attracted to having that power and authority and strive and will do anything to “climb the ladder”. And yes there is a ladder within church hierarchy

"A few years ago"... Would that be like 30 years ago, or so? And the last one before him excommunicated 46 years or so ago, for any reason?

[Thinker]

So know one except the person calling him knows for sure if he was inspired to call this very nasty wicked under the covers member, who worked all sorts of iniquity and evil under the guise of righteousness. The law of free agency over rides many things. Are we a people who abide by everlasting principles that let all choose their path? Or are we going to circumvent the process of the gospel plan? while I think we should be very wary of leaders and not trust those who we have no experience with, no one can know the thoughts and secret proclivities of the natural man who is also working out his mortal probation with us, sometimes in power of authority over us. Very few should be trusted. We have to be prudent about who we trust and use our agency for our good. It just comes down to faith in Jesus Christ and our understanding of the gospel philosophy and principles that are everlasting and the foundational underpinnings of eternity. If we are victimized by these people, it is a tragic thing and something many of us can't overcome here on earth. In fact, I believe in my heart there is nothing worse than a endowed member, bishop ect. Doing something like this The consequences can have a ripple effect over generations of people, that's where faith hope and charity come in, if a person really believes that. The atonement works forwards backwards and sideways, if you believe in Jesus Christ. Justice and mercy will make this fair in the end.... if you believe in the gospel..... if not the jaws of Hell are waiting to snatch the elect any way it can. Thwarting free agency is thwarting the plan of happiness. We have no idea what the Lord has in store for this obviously heinous offender of the weak, but I can tell you, he used his agency to the point of serious consequences here and after. The plan put forth by the Savior is in full action and motion and the Lucifer is eager and willing to do anything to take away our agency, because then he wins..... that's the bigger picture here..... in my most humble opinion.

I am sure the gift of free agency was to bring to pass something good in the end.

I feel like the psychology is simple. Good leads to good. Death leads to death.

So, at what point do good people pass death upon bad people? Does this make good people bad? Does this make bad people good?

What if good people pass good to bad people?

I think society ought to try it. Instead of punishing someone for being bad, what if we blessed them?

Because good brings forth good.

What I don't agree with, is lying and covering up the truth so that wickedness can spread without most people's awareness.

I mean, we already know this when we get a puppy. Find a book on how to train your pet if they do something wrong, that includes punishment. Everything I read regards to training a pet is to reward it and never punish it. So how come we treat dogs better than humans?

Somewhere in your words are found the similar words the Savior speaks in Luke 6 Yet we often do not apply those words to ourselves - I include myself in this.

Thankyou. I guess what I am saying is, if we had a society that allowed free agency, why the need for anyone to hide their sins? Is it not to avoid punishment?

The problem is, as soon as we think it's ok to be open about sin, we swing to the opposite end of the pendulum, and say that the sin is healthy. But common sense can show how it is not. A sin is a sin because it brings desolation.

Look at how prostitutes were viewed in the middle ages....you couldn't go lower. Well now, we have much compassion for prostitutes. However, the compassion was not geared to healing people and helping them see the reward in choosing what is right.

Now, the same is true for homosexuality.

If it is true for prostitution and homosexuality, what about murder?

I often wonder about the wording of Isaiah, that Jesus carried our shame. If we were not ashamed of our sins, why would a perfect person be so triggering? Surely Jesus was a threat to wickedness so He had to be put to death.

On the other hand, someone honest in heart would be drawn to Jesus for help overcoming their sins.

So when does getting help overcoming sins turn into shame and hiding sins? Is it not the fear of punishment for confessing your wrongs?

Could it be that good people have made it impossible for bad people to come to Christ and be healed by setting up laws of punishment instead of truth and hope as an antitode to sin?

I was impressed by a story of a man who had a severe sexual addiction and he was addicted to porn and hard abuse of women. The psychologist helped him see that his mother had made him be her emotional support when he was a kid, due to her marriage problems or divorce.

His addiction was tied to his unforigiveness toward his mother, for stealing his childhood emotionally; something he never consciously understood he needed to forgive her for. When he found out this was the case, the addiction dropped. He was completely healed.

To me, that showed me how powerful the truth can be. It can heal us and set us free. It seems society has a limit to who is allowed a second chance and who is not.

But perhaps as long as God gives someone breath, God believes in the person's chance to come unto Christ and have their burdens made light.

I hope I’m mistaken but it sounds as if you’re suggesting there should be no consequences for breaking laws - & that we should all just forgive and trust them to confess and forsake.

Why have laws? Why not “anything goes”? What would our society look like if there were no consequences - no need to fear confessing breaking laws? Is God “law and commandments” - which we don’t need?

In reality we NEED God - we need a hierarchical set of values - a higher GOoD compass by which to navigate life. Sure, innocent until proven guilty & there are exceptions to laws (self defense etc). Yet, if we made rules up by exception - chaos would result & it would be like everyone running red lights since emergency vehicles occasionally do. We need laws and we need consequences - when they’re not in place, it makes for an unjust, chaotic & dangerous society.

“Good leads to good. Death leads to death.” I don’t think it’s that simple. Consider parenting. When my child has misbehaved, if there is not a negative consequence (ideally logical or natural) - he’s less likely to learn & more likely to repeat bad behavior. E.g., he keeps forgetting his lunch. And if I keep taking it to him - he’ll never learn. But if he experiences the consequences of being hungry - he’ll likely LEARN and be better for it. In that case, negative consequences produce good results.

And contrary to the warped Christianity that is today, I believe Christ was about response-ability.

[Juliet]

I am sure the gift of free agency was to bring to pass something good in the end.

I feel like the psychology is simple. Good leads to good. Death leads to death.

So, at what point do good people pass death upon bad people? Does this make good people bad? Does this make bad people good?

What if good people pass good to bad people?

I think society ought to try it. Instead of punishing someone for being bad, what if we blessed them?

Because good brings forth good.

What I don't agree with, is lying and covering up the truth so that wickedness can spread without most people's awareness.

I mean, we already know this when we get a puppy. Find a book on how to train your pet if they do something wrong, that includes punishment. Everything I read regards to training a pet is to reward it and never punish it. So how come we treat dogs better than humans?

Somewhere in your words are found the similar words the Savior speaks in Luke 6 Yet we often do not apply those words to ourselves - I include myself in this.

Thankyou. I guess what I am saying is, if we had a society that allowed free agency, why the need for anyone to hide their sins? Is it not to avoid punishment?

The problem is, as soon as we think it's ok to be open about sin, we swing to the opposite end of the pendulum, and say that the sin is healthy. But common sense can show how it is not. A sin is a sin because it brings desolation.

Look at how prostitutes were viewed in the middle ages....you couldn't go lower. Well now, we have much compassion for prostitutes. However, the compassion was not geared to healing people and helping them see the reward in choosing what is right.

Now, the same is true for homosexuality.

If it is true for prostitution and homosexuality, what about murder?

I often wonder about the wording of Isaiah, that Jesus carried our shame. If we were not ashamed of our sins, why would a perfect person be so triggering? Surely Jesus was a threat to wickedness so He had to be put to death.

On the other hand, someone honest in heart would be drawn to Jesus for help overcoming their sins.

So when does getting help overcoming sins turn into shame and hiding sins? Is it not the fear of punishment for confessing your wrongs?

Could it be that good people have made it impossible for bad people to come to Christ and be healed by setting up laws of punishment instead of truth and hope as an antitode to sin?

I was impressed by a story of a man who had a severe sexual addiction and he was addicted to porn and hard abuse of women. The psychologist helped him see that his mother had made him be her emotional support when he was a kid, due to her marriage problems or divorce.

His addiction was tied to his unforigiveness toward his mother, for stealing his childhood emotionally; something he never consciously understood he needed to forgive her for. When he found out this was the case, the addiction dropped. He was completely healed.

To me, that showed me how powerful the truth can be. It can heal us and set us free. It seems society has a limit to who is allowed a second chance and who is not.

But perhaps as long as God gives someone breath, God believes in the person's chance to come unto Christ and have their burdens made light.

I hope I’m mistaken but it sounds as if you’re suggesting there should be no consequences for breaking laws - & that we should all just forgive and trust them to confess and forsake.

Why have laws? Why not “anything goes”? What would our society look like if there were no consequences - no need to fear confessing breaking laws? Is God “law and commandments” - which we don’t need?

In reality we NEED God - we need a hierarchical set of values - a higher GOoD compass by which to navigate life. Sure, innocent until proven guilty & there are exceptions to laws (self defense etc). Yet, if we made rules up by exception - chaos would result & it would be like everyone running red lights since emergency vehicles occasionally do. We need laws and we need consequences - when they’re not in place, it makes for an unjust, chaotic & dangerous society.

“Good leads to good. Death leads to death.” I don’t think it’s that simple. Consider parenting. When my child has misbehaved, if there is not a negative consequence (ideally logical or natural) - he’s less likely to learn & more likely to repeat bad behavior. E.g., he keeps forgetting his lunch. And if I keep taking it to him - he’ll never learn. But if he experiences the consequences of being hungry - he’ll likely LEARN and be better for it. In that case, negative consequences produce good results.

And contrary to the warped Christianity that is today, I believe Christ was about response-ability.

I want to end abuse very much. There is more than one way to parent right. If what you are doing isn't working then a smart parent will try other options.

I think sexual abuse is epidemic in our country. How are we realistically going to gain the upper hand in this situation?

What would Jesus do? What did Jesus do? Is His way effective, why and why not? What has worked for people encapsulated with other sins? What hasn't? Why or why not working with the deepest sins respond in similar ways as dealing with lighter sins?

Again, when we come unto Jesus our burden is made light.

The biggest problem society has is we don't see the evil among us. It hides. And torturing those who do get caught will teach the rest to continue to hide. What if we actually provided a way out for those were caught, so they were better off for it? Has punishment helped more people confess and repent? I think we need to look at the consequences of our choices as much as bad people need to do so also. We have made a choice to punish people who haven't even hurt us specifically. I think defending yourself against someone who has hurt you specifically is one thing everyone ought to have the right to do. But what I see, is society has picked a handful of sins that are not acceptable among the rest of sins which are, and makes those who struggle with those sins carry the shame of all society. I believe making someone else carry your shame is the same sin that crucified Jesus. We don't know Jesus' plan for someone else's life. And we ought to have compassion for the sinner the same way we want compassion for our sins. We all know what it is like to experience doing something against our conscience. It is a human condition. The same principles that make someone angry against their better judgement are the same principles which cause someone to commit deeper sins.

Sin has natural consequences. Is it our authority to heap more consequences upon someone, or is that God's responsibility.

I would rather live in a world where I knew where the bad guys are, and let them have their probation that God gave them, then to live in a world where a small percentage of bad guys are in jail and the rest are disguised in public.

I think it's worth the experiment to see if bad guys were not afraid to hide their sins, for fear of punishment, if we ended up having a high rehabilitation rate.

Even my five year old will lie to me if he thinks doing so will avoid punishment.

[cab]

"Because they didn't ask, and he didn't tell."

Didn't the leaders that called him pray for inspiration?

Why do a background check if callings are inspired?

Probably for the same reason General Authorities lean heavily on focus groups and pilot programs before revelatory new policy changes.

[Robin Hood]

Just a few years ago one was excommunicated for child sex abuse.

I think you will find it was 30 years ago, and it wasn't for child sex abuse.
George P. Lee was excommunicated for apostasy.
The allegations re. child sex abuse came to light later.

[Fiannan]

Did this bishop acquire the services of an under-age prostitute? If not, why are people trying to make this a case against the Church having leaders around young kids?

Unlike the Catholic Church, which has come under fire for a number of years, we do not ban human relationships for leaders, and therefore wind up with people with issues trying to escape their thoughts and feelings by running to their priesthood. Our bishops also are in the public eye quite a bit and generally have large families so it is harder to conceal sinful behavior.

Overall, I think our leaders are less inclined to commit sexual sins, or break secular laws regulating sex, than most people in our population. Some do mess up, and the media tends to focus on them being LDS, but overall it is a tiny number who do.

[Robin Hood]

I may be missing something here.
Since when has operating as a pimp become people trafficking?