Welcome Heretics, Non-Mainstream, Unorthodox, Heterodox, Etc.

[Jesef]

I believe there must be multiple descents to mortality and this is part of the process of becoming the firstborn.

Also I believe the Davidic Servant is the Comforter of John 17, aka the Holy Ghost. The sacrament prayers conditional promise is the end or purpose of the Atonement.. The joining of Israel to this new Holy One... That they may always have his spirit to be with him. Rejecting this heir is the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost to crucify the Lord to open shame by rejecting His heir and the first God produced by the Atonement.

Heresy?

I also believe in multiple mortal descents.

I believe the Davidic servant was supposed to be Joseph Smith’s son david.

Supposed to be? Que paso?

Well I think that since Joseph died and Emma wasn’t really fufillinf her mission, a different spirit was sent instead

Apparently Joseph Jr. gave many blessings that did not seem to come to pass. And so did Joseph Sr. (first patriarch). William Law mentioned a beef in his Salt Lake Tribune interview in which he did not like that Joseph Sr. charged for patriarchal blessings & that they always contained outlandish prophecies - actually I found the quote here:

Interviewer: “You have known the parents of the prophet, old Lucy and old Joe, the Abraham of this new dispensation?”

William Law: “Oh, yes, I knew them. Old Lucy was in her dotage at that time; she seemed a harmless old woman. Old Joe sold blessings, so much a head, always in the same style–that my sons should be emperors and my daughters mothers of queens, and that everybody should have as many children as there was sands on the shore. Old Joe was an old tramp.”

[EmmaLee]

This sub-forum is for non-mainstream, heterodoxical discussions. A place where you can discuss ideas, opinions, and beliefs with like-minded or open-minded people who agree to engage in such discussions respectfully.

This sub-forum would not be suitable for those who would label such people or discussion as apostate or who are not tolerant of unorthodoxical discussions.

The Heretic sub-forum is publicly visible but only group members can post in it.

Thank you for including me in here, creator! I often feel I don't really belong/fit in anywhere, so I appreciate it.

[ElizaRSkousen]

So, what should we talk about? Is there a list of approved topics, questions, and answers?

I don't know about any list, but the only thing that interests me is anything to do with the heavenly gift, calling & election, Second Comforter, Zion...so pretty much Jesus Christ. And maybe Isaiah's writings and the Book of Mormon (but everything they wrote pretty much points to Jesus Christ). My personal focus on my journey is to get to the root and the heart of the restoration of the gospel in its fullness and the redemption of Zion. So perhaps discussions about Enoch and his day would also interest me. Everything else to me is just noise.

Have you looked at the book of Enoch?

Here’s a good online copy if anyone’s interested! Starts on 35

https://www.globalgreyebooks.com/conten ... rophet.pdf

[Zathura]

All it takes is for a few certain Heretics to turn this subforum into the 2nd coming of the Heavenly Gift sub-forum.
Odds?

[EmmaLee]

All it takes is for a few certain Heretics to turn this subforum into the 2nd coming of the Heavenly Gift sub-forum.
Odds?

Please, no.

Sadly, the odds are probably pretty high. Hopefully, creator won't let that happen.

[ajax]

That was actually a great sub-forum tbh. I wonder then what heretical topics are acceptable vs unacceptable.

[creator]

All it takes is for a few certain Heretics to turn this subforum into the 2nd coming of the Heavenly Gift sub-forum.
Odds?

I think the odds are low.

[creator]

That was actually a great sub-forum tbh. I wonder then what heretical topics are acceptable vs unacceptable.

It was good, other than the Denver Snuffer FTPing of some.

All topics are acceptable. The main difference in here is no tolerance for those who just want to respond saying "you're wrong", "you're apostate", "you're _________".

[Zathura]

That was actually a great sub-forum tbh. I wonder then what heretical topics are acceptable vs unacceptable.

It was good, other than the Denver Snuffer FTPing of some.

All topics are acceptable. The main difference in here is no tolerance for those who just want to respond saying "you're wrong", "you're apostate", "you're _________".

You're Great

[marc]

So, what should we talk about? Is there a list of approved topics, questions, and answers?

I don't know about any list, but the only thing that interests me is anything to do with the heavenly gift, calling & election, Second Comforter, Zion...so pretty much Jesus Christ. And maybe Isaiah's writings and the Book of Mormon (but everything they wrote pretty much points to Jesus Christ). My personal focus on my journey is to get to the root and the heart of the restoration of the gospel in its fullness and the redemption of Zion. So perhaps discussions about Enoch and his day would also interest me. Everything else to me is just noise.

Have you looked at the book of Enoch?

Here’s a good online copy if anyone’s interested! Starts on 35

https://www.globalgreyebooks.com/conten ... rophet.pdf

I bought the book a few years ago.

[EmmaLee]

That was actually a great sub-forum tbh. I wonder then what heretical topics are acceptable vs unacceptable.

I don't think it was the topics discussed there that were unacceptable, per se, as much as all the Snuffer worship that was present and in-your-face at times (you either followed/agreed with him or you were "less than" or "lower law" or only wanted "milk", blah blah blah - of course, we see plenty of that attitude on the open forum and with TBM's, too, so...). There were a lot of interesting and informative things talked about there that would be great to discuss here, too, if people could leave Snuffer out of it. My .02.

[EmmaLee]

That was actually a great sub-forum tbh. I wonder then what heretical topics are acceptable vs unacceptable.

It was good, other than the Denver Snuffer FTPing of some.

All topics are acceptable. The main difference in here is no tolerance for those who just want to respond saying "you're wrong", "you're apostate", "you're _________".

I hope that holds true. A bit worried on one of the MMP threads - the obvious impression being given that those who don't believe in MMP are wrong, can only handle 'milk', 'aren't ready for more truth', etc. etc. Everybody wants to be right, but the actual truth is, most of us are probably wrong about most things. So people should let others have their beliefs and opinions, even if they can't list a bunch of scriptures or quotes or sources that inform those beliefs and opinions. There are some things I feel very strongly about that I have a hard time putting into words, let alone 'proving' to others. I just hope people will be allowed their own beliefs here and won't be made to feel 'lesser than' or of a 'lower order' simply because their belief is in the minority, etc.

Thanks for giving us a chance, creator.

[ajax]

I'm not sure why people are offended by other people (snuffer for instance) where they can't be mentioned. I mean, we are all adults here. Who cares. I have no problem with saying, "Snuffer brought up this point....", nor do I have any problem with people saying, "Nelson, or Harold B Lee, or Brigham, or Joseph, or Aquinas, or Jefferson, or Aristotle brought up this point." In fact they ought to be referenced if we are referring to their ideas. But then the focus should be on the ideas, not the messenger per se.

[ajax]

I hope that holds true. A bit worried on one of the MMP threads - the obvious impression being given that those who don't believe in MMP are wrong, can only handle 'milk', 'aren't ready for more truth', etc. etc.

I agree. We ought to let others believe and try to persuade without being, what did Joseph say, trammeled. We would all do well in this subforum to be more Socratic in method.

[EmmaLee]

I hope that holds true. A bit worried on one of the MMP threads - the obvious impression being given that those who don't believe in MMP are wrong, can only handle 'milk', 'aren't ready for more truth', etc. etc.

I agree. We ought to let others believe and try to persuade without being, what did Joseph say, trammeled. We would all do well in this subforum to be more Socratic in method.

Agreed - and that's the very reason I didn't post my thoughts on that particular thread - because I'd already seen others with the minority opinion get very close to being 'trammeled'. Let us be trammel-free.

[ajax]

If we all look at each other as the crazy family uncle or aunt that we generally roll our eyes at and snicker, I think we'll be ok.

[ajax]

It also requires people that don't take themselves too seriously.

[EmmaLee]

I'm not sure why people are offended by other people (snuffer for instance) where they can't be mentioned. I mean, we are all adults here. Who cares. I have no problem with saying, "Snuffer brought up this point....", nor do I have any problem with people saying, "Nelson, or Harold B Lee, or Brigham, or Joseph, or Aquinas, or Jefferson, or Aristotle brought up this point." In fact they ought to be referenced if we are referring to their ideas. But then the focus should be on the ideas, not the messenger per se.

No offense here - and I agree, focusing on ideas is the best route to take. I'm all about gleaning truth from wherever it can be found, and believe it can be found in many diverse places and from all kinds of people. I only mentioned the aforementioned unmentionable as the previous sub-forum seemed to turn into a fan club for one man (and it wasn't Jesus). Not interested in that again, but if others are - have at it! I mostly just read these days anyway, so, no matter.

[ajax]

I'm sure you have a heretical idea or two you can share.

[EmmaLee]

I'm sure you have a heretical idea or two you can share.

Working up the courage!

[ElizaRSkousen]

I hope that holds true. A bit worried on one of the MMP threads - the obvious impression being given that those who don't believe in MMP are wrong, can only handle 'milk', 'aren't ready for more truth', etc. etc.

I agree. We ought to let others believe and try to persuade without being, what did Joseph say, trammeled. We would all do well in this subforum to be more Socratic in method.

Agreed - and that's the very reason I didn't post my thoughts on that particular thread - because I'd already seen others with the minority opinion get very close to being 'trammeled'. Let us be trammel-free.

Thank you for saying this! I’m always a trammeler and need to take a chill pill.

That’s what happens when you are passionate about something. haha.

[SJR3t2]

Let's start topic & see how it goes. I'll kick it off with a Poll about MMP.

I wrote this a while back ago to a friend at the time on this subject https://seekingyhwh.com/2016/06/01/lett ... carnation/

[SJR3t2]

That was actually a great sub-forum tbh. I wonder then what heretical topics are acceptable vs unacceptable.

I don't think it was the topics discussed there that were unacceptable, per se, as much as all the Snuffer worship that was present and in-your-face at times (you either followed/agreed with him or you were "less than" or "lower law" or only wanted "milk", blah blah blah - of course, we see plenty of that attitude on the open forum and with TBM's, too, so...). There were a lot of interesting and informative things talked about there that would be great to discuss here, too, if people could leave Snuffer out of it. My .02.

I used to meet with some Snufferites a while back ago, and I saw tons of Snuffer worship, though they don't like to be called out on it. https://seekingyhwh.com/denver-snuffer/

[marc]

I just thought I'd drop in and see if any of the old "heretics" are still around. I haven't been active on LDSFF in a long time except to update my blog or to reply to the occasional post.

[creator]

I'm still here.

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