New Predictions 2019 April GC

[thestock]

A typical full sized ward has about 25 families you can always count on. The remainder are hit and miss. That is why you so often see STP in play. That isn't the fault of the STP, it's the fault of the rest for being lukewarm.

Boy ain't that the truth..... When you start looking around to find people to fill what you would consider a fun and easy calling, you'll be surprised how few are both able and (especially) willing. Kinda scares me sometimes.

If the church is having a hard time finding reliable people committed to fulfilling certain callings....perhaps the leaders would be wise to consider the usefulness of that particular program. Many callings are 10% service and 90% "busywork" and meetings. If the program can't seem to ever get a reliable person to commit to it among the hundred plus members attending than is it really the members' fault?

[iWriteStuff]

A typical full sized ward has about 25 families you can always count on. The remainder are hit and miss. That is why you so often see STP in play. That isn't the fault of the STP, it's the fault of the rest for being lukewarm.

Boy ain't that the truth..... When you start looking around to find people to fill what you would consider a fun and easy calling, you'll be surprised how few are both able and (especially) willing. Kinda scares me sometimes.

If the church is having a hard time finding reliable people committed to fulfilling certain callings....perhaps the leaders would be wise to consider the usefulness of that particular program. Many callings are 10% service and 90% "busywork" and meetings. If the program can't seem to ever get a reliable person to commit to it among the hundred plus members attending than is it really the members' fault?

I'll email SLC immediately and notify them it's time to cancel the Primary and Sunday School programs.

At least in our ward, those are the two least popular callings. Everyone wants to be in YM/YW/RS/EQ. Everything else is considered "beneath them". If it isn't high visibility and high social standing, they won't accept the calling.

[Robin Hood]

I don't see that happening. There has to be balance, and this would throw things into chaos. The way to get men more involved in magnifying their callings isn't to extend them to women, but to hold them to a higher standard and show them confidence that they can be useful in building the Kingdom of God.

I think another way to keep men coming to church is to stop calling the same 10 people to all the leadership positions in the ward and stake. I know for myself that after 40 years of membership and never being asked to do anything, I figured the Lord didn't need me so I might as well just stay home.

There is a reason the same ten people (we call it STP in our ward) are called.
When we called people from outside the STP it was a complete disaster.

“Complete Disaster” ...??
Did the meeting start on time?
Was the Sacrament blessed and passed?
Were the tithes and offering collected?

Did a few people give talks in sacrament meeting?

We’re the sick visited? The downtrodden raised?

I only ask because the real reason STP are used is to keep things on track according to the traditional local powers that be. The tendency is to keep everything the same and regulate to what is familiar and traditionally known.

We as a church also tend to reap what we sow.
Look at BYU... they decided to become the “Harvard of the West” and ratcheted up admittance requirements that excluded a lot of diversity. Not racial diversity, but student diversity. It got to the point that over-achievers were the norm, and many students admitted were less well rounded than previously.
BYU has recognized that they went too far, and are now easing the high standards to allow regular people attend that school.

If the STP don’t relinquish power, and groom other faithful to take their place in leadership, then they have failed by the highest order.

The object is not to manage and run the church program. The object is to mentor and cultivate future leaders.

It’s a hard lesson. We had a long serving bishop who wouldn’t call any woman to a leadership position who hadn’t served a mission. Instantly it was the STP in the auxiliary callings, for years...!!

Anyway, I don’t mind if church services look and feel different than before. As long as the leaders seek inspiration and give their best, I’m ok with it.

I'm talking about callings such as YW's, RS, YM's, Primary etc.

[Davka]

I think another way to keep men coming to church is to stop calling the same 10 people to all the leadership positions in the ward and stake. I know for myself that after 40 years of membership and never being asked to do anything, I figured the Lord didn't need me so I might as well just stay home.

There is a reason the same ten people (we call it STP in our ward) are called.
When we called people from outside the STP it was a complete disaster.

“Complete Disaster” ...??
Did the meeting start on time?
Was the Sacrament blessed and passed?
Were the tithes and offering collected?

Did a few people give talks in sacrament meeting?

We’re the sick visited? The downtrodden raised?

I only ask because the real reason STP are used is to keep things on track according to the traditional local powers that be. The tendency is to keep everything the same and regulate to what is familiar and traditionally known.

We as a church also tend to reap what we sow.
Look at BYU... they decided to become the “Harvard of the West” and ratcheted up admittance requirements that excluded a lot of diversity. Not racial diversity, but student diversity. It got to the point that over-achievers were the norm, and many students admitted were less well rounded than previously.
BYU has recognized that they went too far, and are now easing the high standards to allow regular people attend that school.

If the STP don’t relinquish power, and groom other faithful to take their place in leadership, then they have failed by the highest order.

The object is not to manage and run the church program. The object is to mentor and cultivate future leaders.

It’s a hard lesson. We had a long serving bishop who wouldn’t call any woman to a leadership position who hadn’t served a mission. Instantly it was the STP in the auxiliary callings, for years...!!

Anyway, I don’t mind if church services look and feel different than before. As long as the leaders seek inspiration and give their best, I’m ok with it.

I'm talking about callings such as YW's, RS, YM's, Primary etc.

Yep, our primary has to do sharing time first so the primary presidency can figure out which teachers are there that week and quickly arrange a sub for those who didn't show up. On any given week it's about 1/2 the teachers who don't show up. Now imagine if the presidency was as flakey.

[innocentoldguy]

"Many callings are 10% service and 90% "busywork" and meetings."

^^^ THIS ^^^!

The first thing that comes to mind is scouting. What an absolute waste of time that organization is. I was a scout leader for about 3 years. I loved the kids. We met every week and I did my best to make the activities in the scouting manual interesting. For example, instead of just showing them how to repair a sprinkling system, we used PVC pipes and connectors to make 2-liter bottle rocket launchers. The kids learned all about sprinkler repair and got to have fun doing it. They loved the activity. During my time, every scout got every badge they could and had fun doing it. Most of the kids came too. We only had two or three that came sporadically. To me, that's what scouting should be about, the kids. Instead, the organization always seemed to want to make it about them. They'd pitch themselves at roundtable meetings, encourage us to buy all their shirts and badges and crap, beg for money and foist fundraisers upon us, and try to justify their existence every time we met with them. I'm glad the church is getting rid of that program and implementing something else.

[innocentoldguy]

"At least in our ward, those are the two least popular callings. Everyone wants to be in YM/YW/RS/EQ. Everything else is considered "beneath them."

I think that's true. The Same-Ten-People view Primary the same way, if that's any consolation. I personally don't like primary callings because I feel they rip me out of the ward. I never get to know new people in the elders' quorum and never know what is going on. This is especially a problem when you move to a new ward because primary is typically where they throw you for the first two years. At least that is what happens to me every time I move. Having said that, some of my greatest friends are adults that I taught when they were in primary and Sunday school.

I think the kids are great, but it would be better, in my opinion, if wards juggled the job around so more people taught primary but took turns and only did it once a month. That way, they could attend other meetings and still feel like they're part of the ward. That's how I would have done it, had I ever been in charge. The time for that is long past though.

[thestock]

A typical full sized ward has about 25 families you can always count on. The remainder are hit and miss. That is why you so often see STP in play. That isn't the fault of the STP, it's the fault of the rest for being lukewarm.

Boy ain't that the truth..... When you start looking around to find people to fill what you would consider a fun and easy calling, you'll be surprised how few are both able and (especially) willing. Kinda scares me sometimes.

If the church is having a hard time finding reliable people committed to fulfilling certain callings....perhaps the leaders would be wise to consider the usefulness of that particular program. Many callings are 10% service and 90% "busywork" and meetings. If the program can't seem to ever get a reliable person to commit to it among the hundred plus members attending than is it really the members' fault?

I'll email SLC immediately and notify them it's time to cancel the Primary and Sunday School programs.

At least in our ward, those are the two least popular callings. Everyone wants to be in YM/YW/RS/EQ. Everything else is considered "beneath them". If it isn't high visibility and high social standing, they won't accept the calling.

That is.....surprising and sad. I've seen that most dread the nursery calling. My wife would volunteer all the time for it and at least one Sunday a month she was filling in for someone before we moved. But in the last 3 wards we've lived in, regular primary callings have never been a problem. Also never heard of Sunday School being a problem, except when I was a Sunday School President as a student in a BYU ward....that was miserable because we had 6am Ward Council and 8am Church. None of my counselors would ever attend the Ward Council at 6am (because, you know....student like to be out on Saturday nights late).....

After about 3 Sundays in a row of saying "Nothing to report" when it came around to me I informed the Bishop that I was no longer interested in attending the ward council and I would let him know if we had any needs. He didnt mind....life went on. My wife and I tag team a Sunday School teaching assignment right now and we've never seen other Sunday School problems.

Emergency Preparedness coordinators get no support and no guidance, so I've seen people go MIA for months in that calling. When I was in EQP, the President wanted to meet every Thurs night from 8-10pm but once the meetings started devolving into useless gossip about ward members and brothers who were no longer attending church I informed them that I wasnt interested in meeting weekly anymore unless an actual agenda of topics was prepared in advanced and adhered to during the meetings....that helped and we became more productive.

[thestock]

"Many callings are 10% service and 90% "busywork" and meetings."

^^^ THIS ^^^!

The first thing that comes to mind is scouting. What an absolute waste of time that organization is. I was a scout leader for about 3 years. I loved the kids. We met every week and I did my best to make the activities in the scouting manual interesting. For example, instead of just showing them how to repair a sprinkling system, we used PVC pipes and connectors to make 2-liter bottle rocket launchers. The kids learned all about sprinkler repair and got to have fun doing it. They loved the activity. During my time, every scout got every badge they could and had fun doing it. Most of the kids came too. We only had two or three that came sporadically. To me, that's what scouting should be about, the kids. Instead, the organization always seemed to want to make it about them. They'd pitch themselves at roundtable meetings, encourage us to buy all their shirts and badges and crap, beg for money and foist fundraisers upon us, and try to justify their existence every time we met with them. I'm glad the church is getting rid of that program and implementing something else.

Im with you 1000%. My most recent calling prior to moving to a new state was YM Secretary and Assistant Scoutmaster. During the Scoutmaster training program, I felt a very strong prompting to distance myself from the scouting program. I informed the bishop and the YM President that I was no longer willing to fulfil the portion of the calling that deals with Scouts, and I would understand if they wanted to release me. Their reply was that Scouts was going away soon anyway, and I could stay on as YM Secretary only.

[PressingForward]

I went years between callings, and also was never called to be a HP until I was 53.....
Served 2 useless EQ Presidents, of course one was Bishops SIL and the other, the Patriarch’s SIL......I resigned from the Patriarchs SIL stent.......which I was promptly labeled as “proud”. This followed me for two wards I’m positive.
It’s terrible the STP and nepotism in the church. Those of us who serve, and are not listened to stop serving.

[shadow]

I don't mind the STP so long as I'm not one of them. I don't really think the STP really exist anyway, my experience has shown otherwise. Maybe in a small ward out in stick-ville or a small branch somewhere but not in a healthy ward.

[iWriteStuff]

I went years between callings, and also was never called to be a HP until I was 53.....
Served 2 useless EQ Presidents, of course one was Bishops SIL and the other, the Patriarch’s SIL......I resigned from the Patriarchs SIL stent.......which I was promptly labeled as “proud”. This followed me for two wards I’m positive.
It’s terrible the STP and nepotism in the church. Those of us who serve, and are not listened to stop serving.

In my last ward, I had three out of three EQ Presidents leave the church, two during their tenure and one immediately after serving. In my current ward, my last EQP begged to be released. That finally happened when they combined EQ and HP.

I think the point is most guys want to feel like they're making a difference somewhere. The problem is they think that leadership will provide that. When/if they finally get it, they learn firsthand that A) most people in the ward will spend their time criticizing them for not doing what they would have done and B) you learn everyone's garbage, and it sort of ruins your idealized perceptions of other members. If I've learned one thing in ward council, it's that leadership is thankless, requires a ton of work, and is sometimes just brutal in the personal criticism leveled at you.

[eddie]

Church headquarters will no longer be in Utah, it will move to Idaho with the humble saints.

[PressingForward]

I went years between callings, and also was never called to be a HP until I was 53.....
Served 2 useless EQ Presidents, of course one was Bishops SIL and the other, the Patriarch’s SIL......I resigned from the Patriarchs SIL stent.......which I was promptly labeled as “proud”. This followed me for two wards I’m positive.
It’s terrible the STP and nepotism in the church. Those of us who serve, and are not listened to stop serving.

In my last ward, I had three out of three EQ Presidents leave the church, two during their tenure and one immediately after serving. In my current ward, my last EQP begged to be released. That finally happened when they combined EQ and HP.

I think the point is most guys want to feel like they're making a difference somewhere. The problem is they think that leadership will provide that. When/if they finally get it, they learn firsthand that A) most people in the ward will spend their time criticizing them for not doing what they would have done and B) you learn everyone's garbage, and it sort of ruins your idealized perceptions of other members. If I've learned one thing in ward council, it's that leadership is thankless, requires a ton of work, and is sometimes just brutal in the personal criticism leveled at you.

Never have seen an EQP that left the Church. All have become Bishops, High Councilmen and Stake Presidency members.....STP at the Ward Level, STF at the Stake level.....
Every Ward and Stake we’ve been in.

[PressingForward]

Church headquarters will no longer be in Utah, it will move to Idaho with the humble saints.

However Idaho is being overrun by Californians so quickly that it will fall soon.

[eddie]

Church headquarters will no longer be in Utah, it will move to Idaho with the humble saints.

However Idaho is being overrun by Californians so quickly that it will fall soon.

We vet them, so far only a few have passed the humility test and no Utah people have passed.

[thestock]

I went years between callings, and also was never called to be a HP until I was 53.....
Served 2 useless EQ Presidents, of course one was Bishops SIL and the other, the Patriarch’s SIL......I resigned from the Patriarchs SIL stent.......which I was promptly labeled as “proud”. This followed me for two wards I’m positive.
It’s terrible the STP and nepotism in the church. Those of us who serve, and are not listened to stop serving.

In my last ward, I had three out of three EQ Presidents leave the church, two during their tenure and one immediately after serving. In my current ward, my last EQP begged to be released. That finally happened when they combined EQ and HP.

I think the point is most guys want to feel like they're making a difference somewhere. The problem is they think that leadership will provide that. When/if they finally get it, they learn firsthand that A) most people in the ward will spend their time criticizing them for not doing what they would have done and B) you learn everyone's garbage, and it sort of ruins your idealized perceptions of other members. If I've learned one thing in ward council, it's that leadership is thankless, requires a ton of work, and is sometimes just brutal in the personal criticism leveled at you.

Wait I thought your ward had problems with Sunday School and Primary. According to your last post the EQP/RS and other "higher callings" were well taken care of by the STP. Now I am hearing that your EQP's also go inactive or else demand a release.

I don't know you and I am trying real hard to take you at your word....but my rational side is telling me that either you are exaggerating quite a bit about the state of things in your ward or else you seem to be in a part of the Lord's vineyard that has enough members to have a church but not enough members to actually run the church without missionaries....so far east Asia or something!?

[mirkwood]

This reminds me of the story about the rancher who had his sons breaking his horses. A neighbor came by and told the rancher he could hire a guy that could break the horses a lot faster and do a better job. The rancher replied, "I could, but I'm not raising horses. I'm raising sons."

I think far too often wards and stakes lose sight of their purpose. It isn't about meetings being perfect, interesting speeches, outgoing personalities, people's age, past callings, or where they choose to sit in the chapel during a meeting. It is about the individuals and their personal growth in the gospel. If you ignore that fact, and stymie their growth because you're focusing too much on the horses, so to speak, people will stop participating. At least I did.

See LadyT's post above.

[mirkwood]

Never have seen an EQP that left the Church. All have become Bishops, High Councilmen and Stake Presidency members.....STP at the Ward Level, STF at the Stake level.....
Every Ward and Stake we’ve been in.

We've had it happen twice over the 20 years I've been in this ward.

[JK4Woods]

I think another way to keep men coming to church is to stop calling the same 10 people to all the leadership positions in the ward and stake. I know for myself that after 40 years of membership and never being asked to do anything, I figured the Lord didn't need me so I might as well just stay home.

There is a reason the same ten people (we call it STP in our ward) are called.
When we called people from outside the STP it was a complete disaster.

“Complete Disaster” ...??
Did the meeting start on time?
Was the Sacrament blessed and passed?
Were the tithes and offering collected?

Did a few people give talks in sacrament meeting?

We’re the sick visited? The downtrodden raised?

I only ask because the real reason STP are used is to keep things on track according to the traditional local powers that be. The tendency is to keep everything the same and regulate to what is familiar and traditionally known.

We as a church also tend to reap what we sow.
Look at BYU... they decided to become the “Harvard of the West” and ratcheted up admittance requirements that excluded a lot of diversity. Not racial diversity, but student diversity. It got to the point that over-achievers were the norm, and many students admitted were less well rounded than previously.
BYU has recognized that they went too far, and are now easing the high standards to allow regular people attend that school.

If the STP don’t relinquish power, and groom other faithful to take their place in leadership, then they have failed by the highest order.

The object is not to manage and run the church program. The object is to mentor and cultivate future leaders.

It’s a hard lesson. We had a long serving bishop who wouldn’t call any woman to a leadership position who hadn’t served a mission. Instantly it was the STP in the auxiliary callings, for years...!!

Anyway, I don’t mind if church services look and feel different than before. As long as the leaders seek inspiration and give their best, I’m ok with it.

I'm talking about callings such as YW's, RS, YM's, Primary etc.

Robin Hood... I can actually sympathize... we've been thru a long period of the incapable, leading the unwilling, for the ungrateful.... all the while trying to slog thru and keep the faith... Sigh....

[JK4Woods]

I went years between callings, and also was never called to be a HP until I was 53.....
Served 2 useless EQ Presidents, of course one was Bishops SIL and the other, the Patriarch’s SIL......I resigned from the Patriarchs SIL stent.......which I was promptly labeled as “proud”. This followed me for two wards I’m positive.
It’s terrible the STP and nepotism in the church. Those of us who serve, and are not listened to stop serving.

In my last ward, I had three out of three EQ Presidents leave the church, two during their tenure and one immediately after serving. In my current ward, my last EQP begged to be released. That finally happened when they combined EQ and HP.

I think the point is most guys want to feel like they're making a difference somewhere. The problem is they think that leadership will provide that. When/if they finally get it, they learn firsthand that A) most people in the ward will spend their time criticizing them for not doing what they would have done and B) you learn everyone's garbage, and it sort of ruins your idealized perceptions of other members. If I've learned one thing in ward council, it's that leadership is thankless, requires a ton of work, and is sometimes just brutal in the personal criticism leveled at you.

Never have seen an EQP that left the Church. All have become Bishops, High Councilmen and Stake Presidency members.....STP at the Ward Level, STF at the Stake level.....
Every Ward and Stake we’ve been in.

Not us..!! Have has several former EQP divorce and move away. Ex-wife and kids still in the ward.

[tdj]

Effective Jan 1., 2020, the church will no longer perform temple marriages, only sealings.

Coffee and tea will be permitted but with emphasized moderation.

Young women will be allowed to pass the Sacrament.

Those were the 3 big ones I heard were in the works last fall.

As far as the coffee and tea goes, as someone who spent the first 38 yrs of my life in the non mormon world before joining, I would advise the leaders and anyone else who asks to leave the coffee alone. It's way too high in caffeine. Tea is ok. It's really nothing more then flavored water, but coffee can be a real stinker. The only thing worse to our health that's legal, is soda pop. And that's not because of the caffeine either, but the SUGAR. Sugar is what is causing the vast majority of our health problems today. Caffeine is addictive, but sugar is so much worse.
Interesting note about caffeine: did you know that if taken during some heart attacks, it can save your life? It's a stimulant that in certain cases, keeps the heart pumping during an attack when it would otherwise stop.
Also, eating too much sugar is what is responsible for most attacks.

[Robin Hood]

When the bishop in my sons ward was released after 5 years, he never went to church again. Went out drinking, left his wife, divorced her, and now he's shacked up with some woman he met. One of his counsellors did the same.

[eddie]

My brother did the same thing. He was a counselor in the Bishopric, Bishop for several years, and then went off the deep end. He cheated, divorced, drank etc.
Satan is a trophy hunter, he doesn't care about those who have already fallen, he goes for the top, giving the church a black eye.

[ElizaRSkousen]

Wow, this happened to my old bishop too. His daughter just got home from her mission to the whole mess.

[justme]

I heard that the mission calls coming this past week do not have a sentence on length of service but that the length will be announced in the future.