New Predictions 2019 April GC

[JK4Woods]

"There is a reason the same ten people (we call it STP in our ward) are called.
When we called people from outside the STP it was a complete disaster."

That has not been my experience. I was an assistant stake clerk for a year or so and in my opinion cronyism dictated leadership positions more than anything else. For example, I was in one meeting where the stake presidency was trying to call a new branch president for one of the branches in our stake. Before the stake presidency started spouting off names, I correctly predicted not only the six names they would throw out (because those were the names they ALWAYS threw out), but also which presidency member would say which names. Unfortunately, for them, they had just called all their friends to be bishops, high counsel members, or bishopric counselors. Instead of picking one of the other 300+ active, tithing-paying men in the stake to fill the responsibility, the stake president said we couldn't handle it and got permission to have another stake extend the calling to one of its members. That particular stake president felt that if you weren't a high priest before 30 there was something wrong with you and he simply wouldn't call you to any leadership positions. That trickled down into the wards through bishopric training as well. There were plenty of active people who were there every week, there at all the church cleanings and other service activities, who were never given a chance to do anything. I ended up working at the Jordan River temple as an ordinance worker for three years, just to have something to do, before the inequity in my ward and stake irritated me to the point that I left the church. We moved and I came back about five years later, but to be honest, not much has changed.

Also, in spite of much protesting to the contrary, there is indeed a notion in the church that going from bishop to primary teacher is a demotion, so typically released bishops are pushed into the high council or quorum leadership positions, leaving little room for anybody else. I've also seen friends of leaders carefully groomed to be the next bishop, etc. In my last stake, they had the bishop callings for my ward pre-decided three bishops out. Even though those callings spanned two stake presidents, the plan played out exactly as I heard it when I was the assistant clerk. That simply isn't fair to all the other members of the ward, nor is it inspired. So, again, if you want to keep men from going inactive, stop calling the same ten people all the time and give others a chance to learn and grow. If you can groom a friend to be the bishop, you should be able to groom anybody for any leadership calling.

---------

"A typical full sized ward has about 25 families you can always count on. The remainder are hit and miss. That is why you so often see STP in play. That isn't the fault of the STP, it's the fault of the rest for being lukewarm."

This reminds me of the story about the rancher who had his sons breaking his horses. A neighbor came by and told the rancher he could hire a guy that could break the horses a lot faster and do a better job. The rancher replied, "I could, but I'm not raising horses. I'm raising sons."

I think far too often wards and stakes lose sight of their purpose. It isn't about meetings being perfect, interesting speeches, outgoing personalities, people's age, past callings, or where they choose to sit in the chapel during a meeting. It is about the individuals and their personal growth in the gospel. If you ignore that fact, and stymie their growth because you're focusing too much on the horses, so to speak, people will stop participating. At least I did.

I think modern society has lost something as we’ve moved away from farming communities.
Ministering? Would be pretty easy when you help your neighbor harvest his hay. I’ve been in wards where we actually worked together on the church welfare farm, and occasionally helped the old farmer of the ward bring in the hay before a looming storm.

The sense of personal responsibility one gains by having to go out and change the wheel line on the crops, knowing a family depends on the harvest, but is laid up with an illness is tremendous. It actually brings out the best in individuals. Sacrifice and service for others.

We have such an easily avoided culture now days, where just getting in ones car and driving to the temple to meet other ward members for ward temple night is easily blown off.

Wards and stakes that really labor together generate such a cohesive bond, that it is surprising regional training of the doctors and lawyers who make up the local leadership, doesn’t include goals of really working together on a needful project.

A project that is bigger than themselves, where no one has time to stand and visit endlessly while the kids horse play and goof around.

Sandbagging levees comes to mind. Digging irrigation canals, re-roofing wind damaged houses. It needs to be basic work that anyone with two hands can contribute, and which equalizes the higher educated of the group.

Also, it can’t be a one shot deal... it should occur every once in awhile.

Cleaning the church doesn’t cut it. And neither does wasteful manual labor when machines could be brought in for better, faster, better results. Like re-foresting hillsides. Have the ward plant 5,000 seedlings on hillsides or something.

Nothing bonds a group together more than accomplishing something you can stand back and look at the end of the day... and return years later to reminisce.

Stake Presidents should assign half the high council to come up with such a work party event every year. The high council should be trained in what to look for, research the pros and cons, risks and rewards. The idea should be vetted, then presented to the Stake Presidency, who should also take real time for inspiration to dew in their minds.

Just making a 20 second announcement during church doesn’t cut it either.

We have a recreational lake nearby. The edges are full of garbage, debris and trash by the end of summer. How about a shoreline cleanup for a full Saturday, with a camp out on Friday night?

That’s the kind of activity which will bond the many walks of life represented in a stake.

[kittycat51]

Ok speaking of the mission call thing...kind of funny. Just today my son came home from school and said a kid in his seminary class got his mission call to Italy. He leaves in the summer after he graduates. It did not say for a specific time (as in two years) but it indicated that more information would be forth coming?

[kgrigio]

My son received his call about 3 weeks ago to Argentina, leaving in July and expected to serve for a period of 24 months. I have had several cousins and friends kids that have gotten their calls in the last few weeks with the same results.

[cab]

I just watched a kid in my ward open his call 15 minutes ago. 24 months.

[eddie]

You're both wrong... it's Yorkshire.

You don't want Church HQ to move to Yorkshire, RH. Look what's happened to Salt Lake.

True... but we could do with a fancy new shopping mall.

I will resist temptation, I will resist temptation, I will resist temptation...

I can't believe it, miracles still happen! hahaha

[thestock]

"There is a reason the same ten people (we call it STP in our ward) are called.
When we called people from outside the STP it was a complete disaster."

That has not been my experience. I was an assistant stake clerk for a year or so and in my opinion cronyism dictated leadership positions more than anything else. For example, I was in one meeting where the stake presidency was trying to call a new branch president for one of the branches in our stake. Before the stake presidency started spouting off names, I correctly predicted not only the six names they would throw out (because those were the names they ALWAYS threw out), but also which presidency member would say which names. Unfortunately, for them, they had just called all their friends to be bishops, high counsel members, or bishopric counselors. Instead of picking one of the other 300+ active, tithing-paying men in the stake to fill the responsibility, the stake president said we couldn't handle it and got permission to have another stake extend the calling to one of its members. That particular stake president felt that if you weren't a high priest before 30 there was something wrong with you and he simply wouldn't call you to any leadership positions. That trickled down into the wards through bishopric training as well. There were plenty of active people who were there every week, there at all the church cleanings and other service activities, who were never given a chance to do anything. I ended up working at the Jordan River temple as an ordinance worker for three years, just to have something to do, before the inequity in my ward and stake irritated me to the point that I left the church. We moved and I came back about five years later, but to be honest, not much has changed.

Also, in spite of much protesting to the contrary, there is indeed a notion in the church that going from bishop to primary teacher is a demotion, so typically released bishops are pushed into the high council or quorum leadership positions, leaving little room for anybody else. I've also seen friends of leaders carefully groomed to be the next bishop, etc. In my last stake, they had the bishop callings for my ward pre-decided three bishops out. Even though those callings spanned two stake presidents, the plan played out exactly as I heard it when I was the assistant clerk. That simply isn't fair to all the other members of the ward, nor is it inspired. So, again, if you want to keep men from going inactive, stop calling the same ten people all the time and give others a chance to learn and grow. If you can groom a friend to be the bishop, you should be able to groom anybody for any leadership calling.

---------

"A typical full sized ward has about 25 families you can always count on. The remainder are hit and miss. That is why you so often see STP in play. That isn't the fault of the STP, it's the fault of the rest for being lukewarm."

This reminds me of the story about the rancher who had his sons breaking his horses. A neighbor came by and told the rancher he could hire a guy that could break the horses a lot faster and do a better job. The rancher replied, "I could, but I'm not raising horses. I'm raising sons."

I think far too often wards and stakes lose sight of their purpose. It isn't about meetings being perfect, interesting speeches, outgoing personalities, people's age, past callings, or where they choose to sit in the chapel during a meeting. It is about the individuals and their personal growth in the gospel. If you ignore that fact, and stymie their growth because you're focusing too much on the horses, so to speak, people will stop participating. At least I did.

I think modern society has lost something as we’ve moved away from farming communities.
Ministering? Would be pretty easy when you help your neighbor harvest his hay. I’ve been in wards where we actually worked together on the church welfare farm, and occasionally helped the old farmer of the ward bring in the hay before a looming storm.

The sense of personal responsibility one gains by having to go out and change the wheel line on the crops, knowing a family depends on the harvest, but is laid up with an illness is tremendous. It actually brings out the best in individuals. Sacrifice and service for others.

We have such an easily avoided culture now days, where just getting in ones car and driving to the temple to meet other ward members for ward temple night is easily blown off.

Wards and stakes that really labor together generate such a cohesive bond, that it is surprising regional training of the doctors and lawyers who make up the local leadership, doesn’t include goals of really working together on a needful project.

A project that is bigger than themselves, where no one has time to stand and visit endlessly while the kids horse play and goof around.

Sandbagging levees comes to mind. Digging irrigation canals, re-roofing wind damaged houses. It needs to be basic work that anyone with two hands can contribute, and which equalizes the higher educated of the group.

Also, it can’t be a one shot deal... it should occur every once in awhile.

Cleaning the church doesn’t cut it. And neither does wasteful manual labor when machines could be brought in for better, faster, better results. Like re-foresting hillsides. Have the ward plant 5,000 seedlings on hillsides or something.

Nothing bonds a group together more than accomplishing something you can stand back and look at the end of the day... and return years later to reminisce.

Stake Presidents should assign half the high council to come up with such a work party event every year. The high council should be trained in what to look for, research the pros and cons, risks and rewards. The idea should be vetted, then presented to the Stake Presidency, who should also take real time for inspiration to dew in their minds.

Just making a 20 second announcement during church doesn’t cut it either.

We have a recreational lake nearby. The edges are full of garbage, debris and trash by the end of summer. How about a shoreline cleanup for a full Saturday, with a camp out on Friday night?

That’s the kind of activity which will bond the many walks of life represented in a stake.

Hey I liked your post, but it got me thinking that times change, and there's nothing wrong with that. Sure, back when the pioneers had just crossed the plains and were a totally isolated society in Utah, the work you did for your own home and community was naturally the same work you shared with your neighbors who were fellow disciples of Christ. Spending hours at Sunday morning meetings, followed by shared lunches, more meetings, and a fireside was the norm. Today, obviously, things have changed. We are less isolated. We are now expected to "live in the world" even though we are asked to not be "of the world". Now is the time to "so let your light shine forth." The time for the isolation of church members is over. Its nice when there are great activities at church to participate in. But those "community" type of activities are also abundant all around us. I find similar satisfaction serving on our homeowner HOA board. Or being actively engaged in the activities of our small children and their friends and parents. The company I work for hosts various charity events and service projects. All of these can give you the same satisfaction that church-sanctioned programs can give. What I like most about all of these is they are available, mostly, with no strings attached or pressure. I dont like being "assigned" to clean the church building. That is not an assignment I will willingly accept. Sure, 100 years ago.....in isolated Utah, I'd probably be cast out if I were unwilling to help build, furnish, and maintain the community meeting house.....

but times have changed. Why should we spend time inefficiently doing busy work when a more efficient use of resources can accomplish the task and free us up to better utilize the skills we individually bring to the table for society?

[innocentoldguy]

@mirkwood - "See LadyT's post above."

I did. LadyT is one of the fine people I was responding to.

[innocentoldguy]

@thestock - I agree. That's exactly what I did too, though I think it took me far too long to do so. Here's a bit more about my story...

I received my patriarchal blessing when I was a teen. I don't feel it would be appropriate to divulge its contents, but let's just say it encouraged me to seek for opportunities to serve in the church. I did that throughout my 20s and 30s (I was in the same ward for about 18 years), but was never asked to do much (i.e. teaching sunbeams in primary, 13-year-olds in Sunday school, ringing the bell to signal the end of Sunday school [seriously, that was it], and significant amounts of time without any callings at all). During my 18 years in that ward, I watched all of my friends and fellow elders' quorum members get moved into the high priest quorum while I stayed behind. At 40, I was older than virtually all the other members of the quorum by about a decade. I felt out of place and left behind, so I left the church for about five years.

After leaving the church, I ended up serving on the board of directors of a large company for seven years, managed software engineering teams and start-ups, mentored women in technology through organizations like Girl Develop It and PyLadies, taught people how to write, went back to college and graduated summa cum laude with a 4.0 GPA, and started my own company. I expended a lot of energy in those activities and exercised my talents to their fullest. I have enjoyed watching my talents and abilities grow over the years.

Those endeavors offered a lot of satisfaction and allowed me to accomplish a lot of personal goals. I'd like to think I helped others along the way too. I could have found that same satisfaction in the church and the church could have benefitted from my drive and talents in the same way various companies and charitable organizations have, I think, but because I wasn't one of the same-ten-people, I'll never know and neither will they. What I do know is that I now focus my time where I can most use my talents and feel most appreciated. That currently is not, nor has it ever been, within the church. Instead, I've always felt ignored, unimportant, unnecessary, disillusioned, and angry. This is not because I wasn't willing to serve, but because my leaders weren't willing to have me for whatever reason.

Now that I've returned to activity, I do whatever callings they give me to the best of my ability, but that really isn't where my heart is. Even though I attend on Sunday and do my best to be a good member of the church, I just don't have the same drive and passion for it that I did before. That's dead. I don't have anything against the church and have firm beliefs about the gospel it teaches. However, by only offering the same-ten-people the chance to grow as leaders in the wards I've been in, I feel that both me and the church have trashed something valuable that shouldn't have ever be thrown away.

My point in sharing this isn't to bash the church. It is to hopefully reach people who are in charge of calling those same-ten-people in their wards and get them to reconsider their ways. In my opinion, they're doing it wrong. If the church is concerned about losing people, I think changing their same-ten-people policy would be a good place to start turning things around.

[innocentoldguy]

@JK4Woods - I agree! When I was a kid, it seemed there was something going on at the ward building every week, whether it be a road show, service project, fireside, youth dance, or something else. We also weeded and picked tomatoes at the church farm every year and helped out at the church cannery. It seems we don't do that sort of thing nearly as much anymore. I agree that would help create great bonds within our wards.

[innocentoldguy]

@Robin Hood - "There is a reason the same ten people (we call it STP in our ward) are called.
When we called people from outside the STP it was a complete disaster."

I don't want to beat a dead horse, so this is the last thing I'll say about it. When you have someone who was called to be the EQP at 21, a bishop at 23, a high council member at 27, and a stake president at 30, of course they're going to be better than someone who has only ever set up the project for the priesthood and women's sessions of General Conference. The solution isn't to just keep calling the handful of members with all the training and experience, but to train new members. I agree that some aren't willing, but that isn't universally the case and a lot of capable, hard-working, and willing people are getting passed by and never even given the opportunity to try. I don't think that's what the Lord has in mind.

[SouEu]

Ok speaking of the mission call thing...kind of funny. Just today my son came home from school and said a kid in his seminary class got his mission call to Italy. He leaves in the summer after he graduates. It did not say for a specific time (as in two years) but it indicated that more information would be forth coming?

Again, I will say this is false. It will specify either 24 months for Elders and 18 months for Sisters.

[innocentoldguy]

I heard from my aunt's only nephew that the church will begin emphasizing ALL the Word of Wisdom, rather than just the bits about hot drinks, tobacco, and alcohol. From now on, temple recommends will be revoked if you eat too many bratwursts, not enough wheat, and refuse to bath in vodka.

[kittycat51]

Ok speaking of the mission call thing...kind of funny. Just today my son came home from school and said a kid in his seminary class got his mission call to Italy. He leaves in the summer after he graduates. It did not say for a specific time (as in two years) but it indicated that more information would be forth coming?

Again, I will say this is false. It will specify either 24 months for Elders and 18 months for Sisters.

Although I agree with you, I'm just the messenger in this. My son has no idea of what the "talk" is on LDSFF or any other social media sights concerning this topic. I thought it rather interesting though that he would tell me this.

[tdj]

Ok speaking of the mission call thing...kind of funny. Just today my son came home from school and said a kid in his seminary class got his mission call to Italy. He leaves in the summer after he graduates. It did not say for a specific time (as in two years) but it indicated that more information would be forth coming?

Again, I will say this is false. It will specify either 24 months for Elders and 18 months for Sisters.

Anyone know why the women get less time? With all the blessings missionary's say serving a mission brings, this seems like a rip off to me.

[LadyT]

I heard from my aunt's only nephew that the church will begin emphasizing ALL the Word of Wisdom, rather than just the bits about hot drinks, tobacco, and alcohol. From now on, temple recommends will be revoked if you eat too many bratwursts, not enough wheat, and refuse to bath in vodka.

Wheat is over rated. Wheat is banned from my house.

[eddie]

I heard from my aunt's only nephew that the church will begin emphasizing ALL the Word of Wisdom, rather than just the bits about hot drinks, tobacco, and alcohol. From now on, temple recommends will be revoked if you eat too many bratwursts, not enough wheat, and refuse to bath in vodka.

Wheat is over rated. Wheat is banned from my house.

What? Staff of life, breakfast of champions, of course I’m referring to Diet Coke!

[innocentoldguy]

@LadyT - What? You banned wheat? How else do you get explosive diarrhea?

[LadyT]

I heard from my aunt's only nephew that the church will begin emphasizing ALL the Word of Wisdom, rather than just the bits about hot drinks, tobacco, and alcohol. From now on, temple recommends will be revoked if you eat too many bratwursts, not enough wheat, and refuse to bath in vodka.

Wheat is over rated. Wheat is banned from my house.

What? Staff of life, breakfast of champions, of course I’m referring to Diet Coke!

Wheat was killing my son. I have had many older members question me in him being wheat free. Like its breaking the wow.
Dr pepper is the bomb. I can't do diet.

[LadyT]

@LadyT - What? You banned wheat? How else do you get explosive diarrhea?

It was killing my son. He is very intolerant to it. He throws up if He eats it. So it's not in my house. Everyone else can eat wheat outside of the house.

[Robin Hood]

Ok speaking of the mission call thing...kind of funny. Just today my son came home from school and said a kid in his seminary class got his mission call to Italy. He leaves in the summer after he graduates. It did not say for a specific time (as in two years) but it indicated that more information would be forth coming?

Again, I will say this is false. It will specify either 24 months for Elders and 18 months for Sisters.

Anyone know why the women get less time? With all the blessings missionary's say serving a mission brings, this seems like a rip off to me.

I agree.
They should both serve for 2 years.

[Egoof]

Ok speaking of the mission call thing...kind of funny. Just today my son came home from school and said a kid in his seminary class got his mission call to Italy. He leaves in the summer after he graduates. It did not say for a specific time (as in two years) but it indicated that more information would be forth coming?

Again, I will say this is false. It will specify either 24 months for Elders and 18 months for Sisters.

Although I agree with you, I'm just the messenger in this. My son has no idea of what the "talk" is on LDSFF or any other social media sights concerning this topic. I thought it rather interesting though that he would tell me this.

This rumor is all the rage with the teenagers right now. My 15 year old daughter came to me with a quote from a best friends mom's sisters son that she says said the duration of the call would be announced at conference. I agree that this is just a redo of the China mission call rumors that were so heavily floated about 3 years ago that President Nelson had to release a statement saying that's not how things work. I fell for it last time, not falling for it again.

[Smfredy]

My daughter is at BYU and her friend just opened a call yesterday and was called to Uruguay for 24 months!

[gkearney]

My 15 year old daughter came to me with a quote from a best friends mom's sisters son

So let's if I got the provenance of this story right:

15 year old daughter -> 15 year old daughter best friend -> 15 year old daughter best friend mother -> 15 year old daughter best friend mother's sister -> Son of the 15 year old daughter best friend mother's sister

Nothing like a reliable first hand account there :)

[innocentoldguy]

@LadyT - What? You banned wheat? How else do you get explosive diarrhea?

It was killing my son. He is very intolerant to it. He throws up if He eats it. So it's not in my house. Everyone else can eat wheat outside of the house.

I understand. My oldest goes into a weird fugue state if she eats gluten. Interestingly enough, she doesn't have that problem when she eats wheat grown in Japan.

[capctr]

@LadyT - What? You banned wheat? How else do you get explosive diarrhea?

It was killing my son. He is very intolerant to it. He throws up if He eats it. So it's not in my house. Everyone else can eat wheat outside of the house.

I understand. My oldest goes into a weird fugue state if she eats gluten. Interestingly enough, she doesn't have that problem when she eats wheat grown in Japan.

I figure it is relayed to the quality of the wheat, wether it is grown in depleted soil, or g m o; I have read Mark Antony invaded Egypt for the high quality of their wheat(due to the Nile replenishing the soil evety few years), rather than Cleo.