LDS Freedom Forum

Silas wrote: ↑October 10th, 2019, 11:42 amBut yeah I agree, people should not be cutting on their kid’s genitals. I thought barbaric was pretty strong language but I don’t disagree with evil.

The practice of FGM is either good or bad.

Alma 5
40 For I say unto you that whatsoever is good cometh from God, and whatsoever is evil cometh from the devil.

41 Therefore, if a man bringeth forth good works he hearkeneth unto the voice of the good shepherd, and he doth follow him; but whosoever bringeth forth evil works, the same becometh a child of the devil, for he hearkeneth unto his voice, and doth follow him.


Therefore, do you think FGM is good or bad/evil? There is no in between.

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑October 10th, 2019, 1:13 pm

Silas wrote: ↑October 10th, 2019, 11:42 amBut yeah I agree, people should not be cutting on their kid’s genitals. I thought barbaric was pretty strong language but I don’t disagree with evil.

The practice of FGM is either good or bad.

Alma 5
40 For I say unto you that whatsoever is good cometh from God, and whatsoever is evil cometh from the devil.

41 Therefore, if a man bringeth forth good works he hearkeneth unto the voice of the good shepherd, and he doth follow him; but whosoever bringeth forth evil works, the same becometh a child of the devil, for he hearkeneth unto his voice, and doth follow him.


Therefore, do you think FGM is good or bad/evil? There is no in between.

I think to most people barbaric = evil. I’m not sure how anyone can think that horrifying and barbaric are words that one chooses when they are seeking an in between position. But maybe you are just on the spectrum and not being intentionally pedantic so given that possibility, yes genital mutilation is evil and wrong.

I’ve spent more time on this subject than I would like and it really doesn’t have anything to do with the point I was making so I’m done with the FGM talk unless you want to start a separate thread on it.

Silas wrote: ↑October 10th, 2019, 1:41 pmI’ve spent more time on this subject which really doesn’t have anything to do with the point I was making so I’m done with the FGM talk unless you want to start a separate thread on it.

Nope.

God will not allow gay marriages in our chapels or temples. Here is why:

As for respect for women, earlier today I was at the grocery store and saw two Muslim women who were shopping. They were both wearing the hijab and I walked up to them and thanked them for their example of modesty and said that I wished that Christian women would follow their example.

I know several Muslim women who are devout but never wear a hijab. Are they less modest?

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑October 18th, 2019, 1:20 am God will not allow gay marriages in our chapels or temples. Here is why:

I will bet you $1,000 that within 20 years there will be gay marriages in the temples. What do you think will happen? Will God strike people down who perform such marriages? When was the last time God struck anyone down for anything. No, he has given us his standards and is going to sit by and watch us give in to the gay propaganda like we are already doing. The church donates to gay groups who are actively working against the church. Would Pres. Benson or any of those before him have done this? If the church wants to keep growing in membership (and bank account) it is going to have to conform to the changes in society. More people, even devout LDS, are falling for the lies of the LGBTQ. It's my prediction that this subject will indeed lead to a fracturing of the church. God will never force us to do anything and I believe that he will also sit by while we ignore his commandments and give in to those who seek his church's destruction.

Aprhys wrote: ↑October 18th, 2019, 4:20 am

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑October 18th, 2019, 1:20 am God will not allow gay marriages in our chapels or temples. Here is why:


[youtube][/youtube]

I will bet you $1,000 that within 20 years there will be gay marriages in the temples. What do you think will happen? Will God strike people down who perform such marriages? When was the last time God struck anyone down for anything. No, he has given us his standards and is going to sit by and watch us give in to the gay propaganda like we are already doing. The church donates to gay groups who are actively working against the church. Would Pres. Benson or any of those before him have done this? If the church wants to keep growing in membership (and bank account) it is going to have to conform to the changes in society. More people, even devout LDS, are falling for the lies of the LGBTQ. It's my prediction that this subject will indeed lead to a fracturing of the church. God will never force us to do anything and I believe that he will also sit by while we ignore his commandments and give in to those who seek his church's destruction.

Don't hold your breath. But if the church fractures, one side will still be keeping the commandments of God, while the other side goes down the slippery slope to hell. The good side will conquer and the LGBT group will still be wanting. The church is Christ's church...not man's. Christ will protect his own.

Did you even listen to the video?

If you want to view some interesting videos go to YouTube and search "Mormon lesbian couples." Many of these videos have many, many views and likes and I will bet that many of the people hitting "like" are LDS females. I assure you that the LDS Church will veer more to the social issue left as the active tithe members become more and more single female.

Fiannan wrote: ↑October 18th, 2019, 7:31 am If you want to view some interesting videos go to YouTube and search "Mormon lesbian couples." Many of these videos have many, many views and likes and I will bet that many of the people hitting "like" are LDS females. I assure you that the LDS Church will veer more to the social issue left as the active tithe members become more and more single female.

Are you attempting to prophesy now? Let people do and believe what they will. Nevertheless, Christ will take care of his own, his way and in his time. He is in charge. Here is the Lord telling us what he will do to the wicked.

D&C 29
15 And there shall be weeping and wailing among the hosts of men;

16 And there shall be a great hailstorm sent forth to destroy the crops of the earth.

17 And it shall come to pass, because of the wickedness of the world, that I will take vengeance upon the wicked, for they will not repent; for the cup of mine indignation is full; for behold, my blood shall not cleanse them if they hear me not.

18 Wherefore, I the Lord God will send forth flies upon the face of the earth, which shall take hold of the inhabitants thereof, and shall eat their flesh, and shall cause maggots to come in upon them;

19 And their tongues shall be stayed that they shall not utter against me; and their flesh shall fall from off their bones, and their eyes from their sockets;

20 And it shall come to pass that the beasts of the forest and the fowls of the air shall devour them up.

21 And the great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall be cast down by devouring fire, according as it is spoken by the mouth of Ezekiel the prophet, who spoke of these things, which have not come to pass but surely must, as I live, for abominations shall not reign.

Are you attempting to prophesy now?

No, there is a difference between prophesy (from God) and speculation based on demographic trends and socio-political leanings of women in general, and single women in particular. If a woman has children she will be more conservative in her schema, while a single woman with no kids will be far more liberal. Now add into that equation a single woman who always had the expectation of having kids and, for one reason or another, never married and finally hits 40 and you see a dramatic shift to left-wing views. A lot of it has to do with projection of innate maternal drives on other things like people or causes she sees the need to wrap her arms around.

So go ahead and tell me the church isn't trying to straddle the fence on LGBTQ issues.

Broadway star Kristin Chenoweth brings her voice and spirit to LGBTQ youth at Encircle.

https://www.deseret.com/2019/10/17/2091 ... gbtq-album

This is a 100% positive article about Encircle and their outreach for LGBTQ.

“It goes to show that Utah’s an important place when it comes to LGBTQ issues,” Kwong told the Deseret News. “People view it as a place where things are happening, where change is being made. It’s awesome to see (Chenoweth) bring that activism that she’s brought to many other places throughout the nation, and I’m sure throughout the world, to Utah.”

She was accompanied by the assistant president of the Tabernacle Choir.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑October 18th, 2019, 7:23 pm So go ahead and tell me the church isn't trying to straddle the fence on LGBTQ issues.

Broadway star Kristin Chenoweth brings her voice and spirit to LGBTQ youth at Encircle.

https://www.deseret.com/2019/10/17/2091 ... gbtq-album

This is a 100% positive article about Encircle and their outreach for LGBTQ.

“It goes to show that Utah’s an important place when it comes to LGBTQ issues,” Kwong told the Deseret News. “People view it as a place where things are happening, where change is being made. It’s awesome to see (Chenoweth) bring that activism that she’s brought to many other places throughout the nation, and I’m sure throughout the world, to Utah.”

She was accompanied by the assistant president of the Tabernacle Choir.

Apparently you didn't watch the video. God does not compromise. He doesn't give in to evil people. He doesn't relinquish his job of perfecting the Saints or in bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.
The LGBT group have no interest in God's desire for them or his power. He forces no man into heaven, but he expects us to follow Christ and keep his commandments. This includes those with SSA. A person can change their appearance according to their sexual preference, but when they are resurrected they will still be whatever gender they were born with. People can run far and wide but they cannot hide from their creator.

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑October 19th, 2019, 3:33 am

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑October 18th, 2019, 7:23 pm So go ahead and tell me the church isn't trying to straddle the fence on LGBTQ issues.

Broadway star Kristin Chenoweth brings her voice and spirit to LGBTQ youth at Encircle.

https://www.deseret.com/2019/10/17/2091 ... gbtq-album

This is a 100% positive article about Encircle and their outreach for LGBTQ.

“It goes to show that Utah’s an important place when it comes to LGBTQ issues,” Kwong told the Deseret News. “People view it as a place where things are happening, where change is being made. It’s awesome to see (Chenoweth) bring that activism that she’s brought to many other places throughout the nation, and I’m sure throughout the world, to Utah.”

She was accompanied by the assistant president of the Tabernacle Choir.

Apparently you didn't watch the video. God does not compromise. He doesn't give in to evil people. He doesn't relinquish his job of perfecting the Saints or in bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.
The LGBT group have no interest in God's desire for them or his power. He forces no man into heaven, but he expects us to follow Christ and keep his commandments. This includes those with SSA. A person can change their appearance according to their sexual preference, but when they are resurrected they will still be whatever gender they were born with. People can run far and wide but they so hide from their creator.

So you believe that God would strike us all down if tomorrow Nelson announced that LGBTQ people have full rights and privileges in the church including temple dealings? I believe that God will let us destroy ourselves and everything he has given us. He will choose another, more righteous people to be his chosen people.

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑October 19th, 2019, 3:33 am

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑October 18th, 2019, 7:23 pm So go ahead and tell me the church isn't trying to straddle the fence on LGBTQ issues.

Broadway star Kristin Chenoweth brings her voice and spirit to LGBTQ youth at Encircle.

https://www.deseret.com/2019/10/17/2091 ... gbtq-album

This is a 100% positive article about Encircle and their outreach for LGBTQ.

“It goes to show that Utah’s an important place when it comes to LGBTQ issues,” Kwong told the Deseret News. “People view it as a place where things are happening, where change is being made. It’s awesome to see (Chenoweth) bring that activism that she’s brought to many other places throughout the nation, and I’m sure throughout the world, to Utah.”

She was accompanied by the assistant president of the Tabernacle Choir.

Apparently you didn't watch the video. God does not compromise. He doesn't give in to evil people. He doesn't relinquish his job of perfecting the Saints or in bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.
The LGBT group have no interest in God's desire for them or his power. He forces no man into heaven, but he expects us to follow Christ and keep his commandments. This includes those with SSA. A person can change their appearance according to their sexual preference, but when they are resurrected they will still be whatever gender they were born with. People can run far and wide but they cannot hide from their creator.

I agree that God does not compromise. That's why it's so serious that the Church has compromised a lot on the homosexuality issue.

How does an article like the one I posted, published in a church-owned newspaper, help in perfecting the saints? Put that article side-by-side with the talk by Oaks, and what do you have?

Hypocrisy.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑October 19th, 2019, 6:49 am

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑October 19th, 2019, 3:33 am

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑October 18th, 2019, 7:23 pm So go ahead and tell me the church isn't trying to straddle the fence on LGBTQ issues.

Broadway star Kristin Chenoweth brings her voice and spirit to LGBTQ youth at Encircle.

https://www.deseret.com/2019/10/17/2091 ... gbtq-album

This is a 100% positive article about Encircle and their outreach for LGBTQ.

“It goes to show that Utah’s an important place when it comes to LGBTQ issues,” Kwong told the Deseret News. “People view it as a place where things are happening, where change is being made. It’s awesome to see (Chenoweth) bring that activism that she’s brought to many other places throughout the nation, and I’m sure throughout the world, to Utah.”

She was accompanied by the assistant president of the Tabernacle Choir.

Apparently you didn't watch the video. God does not compromise. He doesn't give in to evil people. He doesn't relinquish his job of perfecting the Saints or in bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.
The LGBT group have no interest in God's desire for them or his power. He forces no man into heaven, but he expects us to follow Christ and keep his commandments. This includes those with SSA. A person can change their appearance according to their sexual preference, but when they are resurrected they will still be whatever gender they were born with. People can run far and wide but they cannot hide from their creator.

I agree that God does not compromise. That's why it's so serious that the Church has compromised a lot on the homosexuality issue.

How does an article like the one I posted, published in a church-owned newspaper, help in perfecting the saints? Put that article side-by-side with the talk by Oaks, and what do you have?

Hypocrisy.

Doctrine and Covenants 1:2, 11, 14
2 For verily the voice of the Lord is unto all men, and there is none to escape; and there is no eye that shall not see, neither ear that shall not hear, neither heart that shall not be penetrated.
11 Wherefore the voice of the Lord is unto the ends of the earth, that all that will hear may hear:
14 And the arm of the Lord shall be revealed; and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people;

John 10:26,27
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

What did Oaks say about the LGBT group? Did he say that church members are to shun them, or to love them as Christ loves us? Did he explain how we are to apply the first and second commandments to that group? Did he say that marriage between one man and one woman is not important today? Did he say that gays who are active in that lifestyle will go to the celestial kingdom? Will God now allow sin into his presence by allowing temple sealings of two men or two women? Will God allow several men to be married to each other, or several women to do the same? (a form of polygamy or whatever it would be labeled, perhaps an all men or all women whoredoms.) People are pushing God too far and some day he will shower his fiery wrath upon the wicked as scripture reveals.

What takes precedence, the voice of the Lord through his servants or articles in the news paper?

How many baby steps before the Church decides to accept everything LGBTQ and let the Lord figure things out in the hereafter?

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/gay-mens-c ... C2gR7ztZQQ

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑October 30th, 2019, 11:48 am How many baby steps before the Church decides to accept everything LGBTQ and let the Lord figure things out in the hereafter?

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/gay-mens-c ... C2gR7ztZQQ

The fact that there's no poligamy families choir singing Christmas songs at a temple somewhere, signals that this is all about our image. We just can't stand to let that spacious building to point, mock, and laugh.

Gotta impress Babylon. Hypocritical (considering a great many conference talks over 100 years). Sad.

Mahalanobis Distance wrote: ↑October 30th, 2019, 12:01 pm

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑October 30th, 2019, 11:48 am How many baby steps before the Church decides to accept everything LGBTQ and let the Lord figure things out in the hereafter?

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/gay-mens-c ... C2gR7ztZQQ

The fact that there's no poligamy families choir singing Christmas songs at a temple somewhere, signals that this is all about our image. We just can't stand to let that spacious building to point, mock, and laugh.

Gotta impress Babylon. Hypocritical (considering a great many conference talks over 100 years). Sad.

It is hypocritical. The temple Visitor's Centers are specifically used for missionary work. They are there to provide information about the Church, and to give people an idea of our beliefs, etc.

What happens when a person in the Washington DC area goes to this Visitor's Center, and sees that the Gay Men's Choir has been invited to sing? What if they also know that Harry Reid, and RINO Romney are LDS? Will they view as a conservative values Church, or a church with a definite liberal leaning?

What is a conservative family values Christian going to think what they see the Gay Men's Choir singing at the temple? Will they be interested in learning more about the Church?

How do we want them to see us? Who are we trying to convert? What happens if they join the Church, and then find out that their (acting/married) gay family members can't join, or go to the temple?

Hypocrisy hurts both sides.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑October 30th, 2019, 12:16 pm

Mahalanobis Distance wrote: ↑October 30th, 2019, 12:01 pm

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑October 30th, 2019, 11:48 am How many baby steps before the Church decides to accept everything LGBTQ and let the Lord figure things out in the hereafter?

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/gay-mens-c ... C2gR7ztZQQ

The fact that there's no poligamy families choir singing Christmas songs at a temple somewhere, signals that this is all about our image. We just can't stand to let that spacious building to point, mock, and laugh.

Gotta impress Babylon. Hypocritical (considering a great many conference talks over 100 years). Sad.

It is hypocritical. The temple Visitor's Centers are specifically used for missionary work. They are there to provide information about the Church, and to give people an idea of our beliefs, etc.

What happens when a person in the Washington DC area goes to this Visitor's Center, and sees that the Gay Men's Choir has been invited to sing? What if they also know that Harry Reid, and RINO Romney are LDS? Will they view as a conservative values Church, or a church with a definite liberal leaning?

What is a conservative family values Christian going to think what they see the Gay Men's Choir singing at the temple? Will they be interested in learning more about the Church?

How do we want them to see us? Who are we trying to convert? What happens if they join the Church, and then find out that their (acting/married) gay family members can't join, or go to the temple?

Hypocrisy hurts both sides.

In a sense it is bearing false witness about the things we believe. Certainly it is false witness regarding what we celebrate.

Mahalanobis Distance wrote: ↑October 30th, 2019, 12:33 pm

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑October 30th, 2019, 12:16 pm

Mahalanobis Distance wrote: ↑October 30th, 2019, 12:01 pm

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑October 30th, 2019, 11:48 am How many baby steps before the Church decides to accept everything LGBTQ and let the Lord figure things out in the hereafter?

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/gay-mens-c ... C2gR7ztZQQ

The fact that there's no poligamy families choir singing Christmas songs at a temple somewhere, signals that this is all about our image. We just can't stand to let that spacious building to point, mock, and laugh.

Gotta impress Babylon. Hypocritical (considering a great many conference talks over 100 years). Sad.

It is hypocritical. The temple Visitor's Centers are specifically used for missionary work. They are there to provide information about the Church, and to give people an idea of our beliefs, etc.

What happens when a person in the Washington DC area goes to this Visitor's Center, and sees that the Gay Men's Choir has been invited to sing? What if they also know that Harry Reid, and RINO Romney are LDS? Will they view as a conservative values Church, or a church with a definite liberal leaning?

What is a conservative family values Christian going to think what they see the Gay Men's Choir singing at the temple? Will they be interested in learning more about the Church?

How do we want them to see us? Who are we trying to convert? What happens if they join the Church, and then find out that their (acting/married) gay family members can't join, or go to the temple?

Hypocrisy hurts both sides.

In a sense it is bearing false witness about the things we believe. Certainly it is false witness regarding what we celebrate.

Is this really happening?

Fiannan wrote: ↑October 30th, 2019, 4:27 pm

Mahalanobis Distance wrote: ↑October 30th, 2019, 12:33 pm

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑October 30th, 2019, 12:16 pm

Mahalanobis Distance wrote: ↑October 30th, 2019, 12:01 pm

The fact that there's no poligamy families choir singing Christmas songs at a temple somewhere, signals that this is all about our image. We just can't stand to let that spacious building to point, mock, and laugh.

Gotta impress Babylon. Hypocritical (considering a great many conference talks over 100 years). Sad.

It is hypocritical. The temple Visitor's Centers are specifically used for missionary work. They are there to provide information about the Church, and to give people an idea of our beliefs, etc.

What happens when a person in the Washington DC area goes to this Visitor's Center, and sees that the Gay Men's Choir has been invited to sing? What if they also know that Harry Reid, and RINO Romney are LDS? Will they view as a conservative values Church, or a church with a definite liberal leaning?

What is a conservative family values Christian going to think what they see the Gay Men's Choir singing at the temple? Will they be interested in learning more about the Church?

How do we want them to see us? Who are we trying to convert? What happens if they join the Church, and then find out that their (acting/married) gay family members can't join, or go to the temple?

Hypocrisy hurts both sides.

In a sense it is bearing false witness about the things we believe. Certainly it is false witness regarding what we celebrate.

Is this really happening?

If what you are asking is if the Gay Men's Chorus of Wahington DC is really singing at the Washington DC temple visitor's center this coming Friday evening, yes, they are. It's part of a program celebrating the newly enlarged center complete with a new performance auditorium. A different group is performing there on selected evenings between now and Christmas.

Such an amazing missionary opportunity. /sarc/

BTW, I checked out the Gay Chorus website, and they do some very interesting (raunchy) shows. However, I'm sure they will look clean-cut and sing wonderful music for this venue, so the audience won't be reminded that they are all sodomites.

https://www.gmcw.org

Mahalanobis Distance wrote: ↑October 30th, 2019, 12:01 pm The fact that there's no poligamy families choir singing Christmas songs at a temple somewhere, signals that this is all about our image.

Are there any polygamist family choirs out there? And if there are, have they asked to sing Christmas songs at a temple? The fact that you most likely don’t know the answer to these questions makes this a strawman argument.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑October 30th, 2019, 12:16 pm What happens when a person in the Washington DC area goes to this Visitor's Center, and sees that the Gay Men's Choir has been invited to sing?

Ummm…they walk away with a higher opinion of the church than before? Maybe they now understand that the LDS church is much more inclusive and not as bigoted as they were led to believe? Possibly they’ll be more inclined to investigate the church?

What if they also know that Harry Reid, and RINO Romney are LDS? Will they view as a conservative values Church, or a church with a definite liberal leaning?

Hopefully they will understand that the church doesn’t endorse one political party over another.

What is a conservative family values Christian going to think what they see the Gay Men's Choir singing at the temple? Will they be interested in learning more about the Church?

Maybe. Is the church only for “conservative family values Christians”?

How do we want them to see us? Who are we trying to convert?

I thought we were trying to convert everyone. My bad.

What happens if they join the Church, and then find out that their (acting/married) gay family members can't join, or go to the temple?

They would likely find this information before deciding to join. Then they could make an informed decision from there. I’m not seeing an issue here.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑October 31st, 2019, 8:24 am

Fiannan wrote: ↑October 30th, 2019, 4:27 pm

Mahalanobis Distance wrote: ↑October 30th, 2019, 12:33 pm

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑October 30th, 2019, 12:16 pm

It is hypocritical. The temple Visitor's Centers are specifically used for missionary work. They are there to provide information about the Church, and to give people an idea of our beliefs, etc.

What happens when a person in the Washington DC area goes to this Visitor's Center, and sees that the Gay Men's Choir has been invited to sing? What if they also know that Harry Reid, and RINO Romney are LDS? Will they view as a conservative values Church, or a church with a definite liberal leaning?

What is a conservative family values Christian going to think what they see the Gay Men's Choir singing at the temple? Will they be interested in learning more about the Church?

How do we want them to see us? Who are we trying to convert? What happens if they join the Church, and then find out that their (acting/married) gay family members can't join, or go to the temple?

Hypocrisy hurts both sides.

In a sense it is bearing false witness about the things we believe. Certainly it is false witness regarding what we celebrate.

Is this really happening?

If what you are asking is if the Gay Men's Chorus of Wahington DC is really singing at the Washington DC temple visitor's center this coming Friday evening, yes, they are. It's part of a program celebrating the newly enlarged center complete with a new performance auditorium. A different group is performing there on selected evenings between now and Christmas.

Such an amazing missionary opportunity. /sarc/

BTW, I checked out the Gay Chorus website, and they do some very interesting (raunchy) shows. However, I'm sure they will look clean-cut and sing wonderful music for this venue, so the audience won't be reminded that they are all sodomites.

https://www.gmcw.org

1 Corinthians 14:8

For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

The church isn't exactly giving us a certain direction when they speak against unchastity in conference and then promote it elsewhere. No wonder church members, especially youth, are confused. The church is supporting sodomy. I don't want my young children to even know that such a group exists, much less to have them see promoters of debauchery singing at the Lord's Temple. Disgusting.

Who cares what the great and spacious building thinks of us?

RocknRoll wrote: ↑October 31st, 2019, 10:04 am

Mahalanobis Distance wrote: ↑October 30th, 2019, 12:01 pm The fact that there's no poligamy families choir singing Christmas songs at a temple somewhere, signals that this is all about our image.

Are there any polygamist family choirs out there? And if there are, have they asked to sing Christmas songs at a temple? The fact that you most likely don’t know the answer to these questions makes this a strawman argument.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑October 30th, 2019, 12:16 pm What happens when a person in the Washington DC area goes to this Visitor's Center, and sees that the Gay Men's Choir has been invited to sing?

Ummm…they walk away with a higher opinion of the church than before? Maybe they now understand that the LDS church is much more inclusive and not as bigoted as they were led to believe? Possibly they’ll be more inclined to investigate the church?

What if they also know that Harry Reid, and RINO Romney are LDS? Will they view as a conservative values Church, or a church with a definite liberal leaning?

Hopefully they will understand that the church doesn’t endorse one political party over another.

What is a conservative family values Christian going to think what they see the Gay Men's Choir singing at the temple? Will they be interested in learning more about the Church?

Maybe. Is the church only for “conservative family values Christians”?

How do we want them to see us? Who are we trying to convert?

I thought we were trying to convert everyone. My bad.

What happens if they join the Church, and then find out that their (acting/married) gay family members can't join, or go to the temple?

They would likely find this information before deciding to join. Then they could make an informed decision from there. I’m not seeing an issue here.

Obviously the church would not allow polygamists to be associated with the church's image in any way. You are fundamentally incapable of honesty if you can't acknowledge that.

Yes, the church should only accept and promote the Christian values taught in the scriptures.

No, we are not trying to convert everyone. We are trying to gather Israel. We only want those who are willing to exercise faith in Christ and repent of their sins. If we tell people that they can continue sinning and still hope for salvation then we are no longer serving Jesus Christ.

Silas wrote: ↑October 31st, 2019, 10:13 am

RocknRoll wrote: ↑October 31st, 2019, 10:04 am

Mahalanobis Distance wrote: ↑October 30th, 2019, 12:01 pm The fact that there's no poligamy families choir singing Christmas songs at a temple somewhere, signals that this is all about our image.

Are there any polygamist family choirs out there? And if there are, have they asked to sing Christmas songs at a temple? The fact that you most likely don’t know the answer to these questions makes this a strawman argument.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑October 30th, 2019, 12:16 pm What happens when a person in the Washington DC area goes to this Visitor's Center, and sees that the Gay Men's Choir has been invited to sing?

Ummm…they walk away with a higher opinion of the church than before? Maybe they now understand that the LDS church is much more inclusive and not as bigoted as they were led to believe? Possibly they’ll be more inclined to investigate the church?

What if they also know that Harry Reid, and RINO Romney are LDS? Will they view as a conservative values Church, or a church with a definite liberal leaning?

Hopefully they will understand that the church doesn’t endorse one political party over another.

What is a conservative family values Christian going to think what they see the Gay Men's Choir singing at the temple? Will they be interested in learning more about the Church?

Maybe. Is the church only for “conservative family values Christians”?

How do we want them to see us? Who are we trying to convert?

I thought we were trying to convert everyone. My bad.

What happens if they join the Church, and then find out that their (acting/married) gay family members can't join, or go to the temple?

They would likely find this information before deciding to join. Then they could make an informed decision from there. I’m not seeing an issue here.

Obviously the church would not allow polygamists to be associated with the church's image in any way. You are fundamentally incapable of honesty if you can't acknowledge that.

Yes, the church should only accept and promote the Christian values taught in the scriptures.

No, we are not trying to convert everyone. We are trying to gather Israel. We only want those who are willing to exercise faith in Christ and repent of their sins. If we tell people that they can continue sinning and still hope for salvation then we are no longer serving Jesus Christ.

If there was a huge push by the media, Hollywood, academia, and society at large - to accept poligamy, and if there were parades and cheering and general praise from all sides, you can bet the farm that the church would suddenly be proud of its history. You'd see the construction of a new poligamy history museum and a lot of virtue signaling.

I'm not trying to make this about poligamy. I'm just making a point that it's all about the image. I agree that we need to stop caring what that Spaceous Building thinks and bid farewell to Babylon.

Honestly, I don't care who shows up at church with me. I just expect them to realize that the chapel and church is the "safe space" of the believers - or that's what it's intended to be. They don't get to come in and try to change my beliefs - I don't do that in their safe spaces. I'm just asking for mutual respect. All are welcome to worship with me. But I'm not going to change the commandments or stop preaching repentance based on who shows up. The problem is that (I've seen first-hand) the second a ward decides to be welcoming and "accepting" towards a lifestyle, the walking-on-eggshells begins and the preaching repentance goes out the window. It's just the gospel of feel-good.