LDS Freedom Forum

PressingForward wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:12 pm It’s a sin to have gay sex, and NEWS FLASH! It doesn’t matter if the world accepts gay marriage, it not Gods plan, if you listened
To conference, that was
Re-affirmed yet again.

Yes, and in years past, polygamy was “re-affirmed” and the position on blacks and the priesthood was “re-affirmed”. I’ll take from conference what I like, you take what you like

Sooooo. Stop supporting Gay sex, tell your son he’s going against Gods plan......that is what a loving parent would do.

Pretty arrogant of you, don’t you think? I don’t need you to tell me how to be a parent. I’m doing just fine, thank you.

RocknRoll wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 1:54 pm

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑October 7th, 2019, 3:24 pm Are you really LDS?

Yes, I am really LDS…have been for over 50 years. Are you? Because I get more of an FLDS vibe from you.

You see, there's this belief we have that a veil has been drawn so that we don't remember our First Estate.
I know that for as long as I can remember, I wanted to marry a man and have children. I brought that desire here with me.

So, you admit that you’ve been heterosexual for “as long as you can remember”. It’s the same for LGB people. Most will tell you that they were attracted to the same sex “as long as they can remember”. There was never a choice made.

I never said just being gay was evil, I have only ever said that it's a sin to act on it. We are here to act on our righteous desires and to resist our evil desires.

Mostly agree. I agree It’s sinful to have sex with a person (gay or straight) before marriage.

Many of the posts on this thread are really sad to me. It’s sad that some people carry such animosity towards a small group of Gods children. People who struggle with a situation that most of us will never understand. With opinions like these, it is no wonder so many feel there is no place for them in the church these days. Thankfully most members of my current ward are not like this (or they hide it well). Which is the direction, I believe, the church as whole is moving.

I find it incredibly sad that so many people in the church are willing to accept a sinful act, just because they've convinced themselves that the person was made that way. What other sins shall we be lenient with?

Gay marriage is blasphemy. Just like abortion, it's now LEGAL in the US, but also just like abortion, it's still abhorred by God. It's literally Lucifer's concept of marriage, just as killing unborn children is also a Satanic rite and practice.

Again, we all had agency in the Spirit World, we made choices, and we brought those choices here with us. We are not just some experiment by God where He chooses who we are and what our desires will be, and we are not born a "clean slate" with no prior history of choices that shaped who we are today. The third part of spirits who CHOSE to follow Lucifer and never come to Earth are proof of that point.

So that convicted murderer who said that he was born with the desire to kill, that he wanted to kill things for as long as he could remember, that he was born with Satan in him.....did God choose for him to have those desires, or did he bring those desires with him from pre-Earth life.

There are quite a few LGBTQ people on Mormons Building Bridges who claim that they KNOW they were LGBTQ before they were ever born here, and that its part of their eternal nature. I believe them. I just don't believe it's a desirable part of their eternal nature.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:44 pm I find it incredibly sad that so many people in the church are willing to accept a sinful act, just because they've convinced themselves that the person was made that way. What other sins shall we be lenient with?

I never spoke about “a sinful act”. My post was on treating people who were born with a sexual orientation that is different than ours with love and respect. They are Gods children, after all.

“We” should not be anything when it comes to judging other people’s “sins”.

Gay marriage is blasphemy. Just like abortion, it's now LEGAL in the US, but also just like abortion, it's still abhorred by God. It's literally Lucifer's concept of marriage, just as killing unborn children is also a Satanic rite and practice.

I agree abortion is wrong, because it’s taking a human life. But I challenge you to show me any scripture that says gay marriage is blasphemy or that it’s “Lucifer’s concept of marriage”. In fact, show me any scripture that mentions gay marriage at all.

Again, we all had agency in the Spirit World, we made choices, and we brought those choices here with us. We are not just some experiment by God where He chooses who we are and what our desires will be, and we are not born a "clean slate" with no prior history of choices that shaped who we are today. The third part of spirits who CHOSE to follow Lucifer and never come to Earth are proof of that point.

So that convicted murderer who said that he was born with the desire to kill, that he wanted to kill things for as long as he could remember, that he was born with Satan in him.....did God choose for him to have those desires, or did he bring those desires with him from pre-Earth life.

There are quite a few LGBTQ people on Mormons Building Bridges who claim that they KNOW they were LGBTQ before they were ever born here, and that its part of their eternal nature. I believe them. I just don't believe it's a desirable part of their eternal nature.

Ok. We all pick and choose what to believe.

catcatinabox wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:31 pm

RocknRoll wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:06 pm

catcatinabox wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 1:57 pm Nope, it's sinful to have sexual desires for individuals who are not our spouse (as in opposite sex spouse). Sexual desires, thoughts, feelings for other individuals (outside of our spouse) is against God's will and laws.

Ya, I don’t think so. Are you saying you had no sexual desires for your spouse until after you were married? Are we supposed to believe that?

So pornography of the mind is not a sin? So undressing other strangers and thinking sexual thoughts/desires about them is not wrong?

Man . . .this world is sick and stay the heck away from my wife and daughters. I don't want some stranger who believes it's perfectly acceptable to play pornography in their mind about them (or have sexual desires about them) any where near my family!

It really makes me get why the Muslims go with the Hijab and burkas. Just take that nonsense off the table. I remember thinking that was oppressive but now I wish we had as much respect for our women as the Muslims do for theirs.

Silas wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 3:31 pm

catcatinabox wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:31 pm

RocknRoll wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:06 pm

catcatinabox wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 1:57 pm Nope, it's sinful to have sexual desires for individuals who are not our spouse (as in opposite sex spouse). Sexual desires, thoughts, feelings for other individuals (outside of our spouse) is against God's will and laws.

Ya, I don’t think so. Are you saying you had no sexual desires for your spouse until after you were married? Are we supposed to believe that?

So pornography of the mind is not a sin? So undressing other strangers and thinking sexual thoughts/desires about them is not wrong?

Man . . .this world is sick and stay the heck away from my wife and daughters. I don't want some stranger who believes it's perfectly acceptable to play pornography in their mind about them (or have sexual desires about them) any where near my family!

It really makes me get why the Muslims go with the Hijab and burkas. Just take that nonsense off the table. I remember thinking that was oppressive but now I wish we had as much respect for our women as the Muslims do for theirs.

We don't even have to follow Muslims on head coverings, it's in our own Bible! If only Christian's still had the faith to follow it, even the non-PC parts.

GaelicVigil wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 4:03 pm

Silas wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 3:31 pm

catcatinabox wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:31 pm

RocknRoll wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:06 pm

Ya, I don’t think so. Are you saying you had no sexual desires for your spouse until after you were married? Are we supposed to believe that?

So pornography of the mind is not a sin? So undressing other strangers and thinking sexual thoughts/desires about them is not wrong?

Man . . .this world is sick and stay the heck away from my wife and daughters. I don't want some stranger who believes it's perfectly acceptable to play pornography in their mind about them (or have sexual desires about them) any where near my family!

It really makes me get why the Muslims go with the Hijab and burkas. Just take that nonsense off the table. I remember thinking that was oppressive but now I wish we had as much respect for our women as the Muslims do for theirs.

We don't even have to follow Muslims on head coverings, it's in our own Bible! If only Christian's still had the faith to follow it, even the non-PC parts.

Well given that we now have a problem with it in our own temples the likelihood that it happens outside of them is not great.

Almost makes you wish that the propaganda about Muslims taking over and instituting sharia law was real. Alas.

RocknRoll wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:34 pm Yes, and in years past, polygamy was “re-affirmed” and the position on blacks and the priesthood was “re-affirmed”. I’ll take from conference what I like, you take what you like

Unfortunately for the TBMs out there, Rock n' Roll is right. The LDS church has a history of shedding unpopular beliefs, and people who can look at history and say "It's different this time" have a record of ending up disappointed.

Believing Joseph wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 7:08 pm

RocknRoll wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:34 pm Yes, and in years past, polygamy was “re-affirmed” and the position on blacks and the priesthood was “re-affirmed”. I’ll take from conference what I like, you take what you like

Unfortunately for the TBMs out there, Rock n' Roll is right. The LDS church has a history of shedding unpopular beliefs, and people who can look at history and say "It's different this time" have a record of ending up disappointed.

Nah, I'm good. When President Nelson and other church leaders out there say that the law of chastity cannot be changed they are right. They aren't right because of the position they hold they are right because they are speaking the truth. The law of Chastity cannot change. You can't make a gay marriage any more than you can make a square circle. We can acknowledge that law or we can reject it, but we can't change it.

Now, say ten years from now they cave to the people trying to throw them in lion's dens and try to call evil good and good evil they will be wrong and it will be the duty of all who love truth to oppose them. Of course, I wish it were lion's dens I think church leaders would have an easier time facing that then what actually makes people abandon principles now. Turns out the modern lion's den is just social shame.

We can face down a mob no trouble. Being tarred and feathered would only strengthen our resolve. But if a lot of people say we are mean and that we make women and children sad then it seems we are much more willing to forsake our principles.

RocknRoll wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 1:54 pm

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑October 7th, 2019, 3:24 pm Are you really LDS?

Yes, I am really LDS…have been for over 50 years. Are you? Because I get more of an FLDS vibe from you.

You see, there's this belief we have that a veil has been drawn so that we don't remember our First Estate.
I know that for as long as I can remember, I wanted to marry a man and have children. I brought that desire here with me.

So, you admit that you’ve been heterosexual for “as long as you can remember”. It’s the same for LGB people. Most will tell you that they were attracted to the same sex “as long as they can remember”. There was never a choice made.

I never said just being gay was evil, I have only ever said that it's a sin to act on it. We are here to act on our righteous desires and to resist our evil desires.

Mostly agree. I agree It’s sinful to have sex with a person (gay or straight) before marriage.

Many of the posts on this thread are really sad to me. It’s sad that some people carry such animosity towards a small group of Gods children. People who struggle with a situation that most of us will never understand. With opinions like these, it is no wonder so many feel there is no place for them in the church these days. Thankfully most members of my current ward are not like this (or they hide it well). Which is the direction, I believe, the church as whole is moving.

Do you think God is gay? Is he married to another gay man he calls his wife? Do you think Christ's church should embrace gay marriage as a practice? Do you think Christ's temples should engage in performing gay sealings? Would you want Christ to call the temples his house knowing gay marriages and sealings are taking place in them. Would you feel good in having Christ walk the halls of a temple that has been turned into a house of sin?
Should the church eradicate one of its missions to "Perfect the Saints"? What should be done to the command to multiply and replenish the earth? How are gay couples ever going to obey that command? It certainly won't be obeyed by bowering someone elses baby that was born of a woman? Same thing with gay women that won't get near a man. And why would they allow a man's sperm to be injected into them if they hate men so much?

D&C 124:143
143 The above offices I have given unto you, and the keys thereof, for helps and for governments, for the work of the ministry and the perfecting of my saints. Who's saints?

Ephesians 4:11-20
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: Where does practicing homosexuality fit in?

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; Gay people wanting to change the Lord's church to look at their practices as acceptable, for instance?

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, This says it all, does it not? And how is this done?

18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

20 But ye have not so learned Christ;

Alma 45:16
16 And he said: Thus saith the Lord God—Cursed shall be the land, yea, this land, unto every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, unto destruction, which do wickedly, when they are fully ripe; and as I have said so shall it be; for this is the cursing and the blessing of God upon the land, for the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.

D&C 1:31-33
31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;
32 Nevertheless, he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven;
33 And he that repents not, from him shall be taken even the light which he has received; for my Spirit shall not always strive with man, saith the Lord of Hosts.

So there we have it folks. It's in the book

Silas wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 3:31 pm

catcatinabox wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:31 pm

RocknRoll wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:06 pm

catcatinabox wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 1:57 pm Nope, it's sinful to have sexual desires for individuals who are not our spouse (as in opposite sex spouse). Sexual desires, thoughts, feelings for other individuals (outside of our spouse) is against God's will and laws.

Ya, I don’t think so. Are you saying you had no sexual desires for your spouse until after you were married? Are we supposed to believe that?

So pornography of the mind is not a sin? So undressing other strangers and thinking sexual thoughts/desires about them is not wrong?

Man . . .this world is sick and stay the heck away from my wife and daughters. I don't want some stranger who believes it's perfectly acceptable to play pornography in their mind about them (or have sexual desires about them) any where near my family!

It really makes me get why the Muslims go with the Hijab and burkas. Just take that nonsense off the table. I remember thinking that was oppressive but now I wish we had as much respect for our women as the Muslims do for theirs.

Do they have respect for their women by mutilating their genitals? Here are some stats:

Is FGM (Female Genital Mutilation) required by certain religions?

No religion promotes or condones FGM. Still, more than half of girls and women in four out of 14 countries where data is available saw FGM as a religious requirement. And although FGM is often perceived as being connected to Islam, perhaps because it is practiced among many Muslim groups, not all Islamic groups practice FGM, and many non-Islamic groups do, including some Christians, Ethiopian Jews, and followers of certain traditional African religions.

FGM is thus a cultural rather than a religious practice. In fact, many religious leaders have denounced it.

https://www.unfpa.org/resources/female- ... ce_origins

RocknRoll wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:58 pm

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:44 pm I find it incredibly sad that so many people in the church are willing to accept a sinful act, just because they've convinced themselves that the person was made that way. What other sins shall we be lenient with?

I never spoke about “a sinful act”. My post was on treating people who were born with a sexual orientation that is different than ours with love and respect. They are Gods children, after all.

“We” should not be anything when it comes to judging other people’s “sins”.

Gay marriage is blasphemy. Just like abortion, it's now LEGAL in the US, but also just like abortion, it's still abhorred by God. It's literally Lucifer's concept of marriage, just as killing unborn children is also a Satanic rite and practice.

I agree abortion is wrong, because it’s taking a human life. But I challenge you to show me any scripture that says gay marriage is blasphemy or that it’s “Lucifer’s concept of marriage”. In fact, show me any scripture that mentions gay marriage at all.

Again, we all had agency in the Spirit World, we made choices, and we brought those choices here with us. We are not just some experiment by God where He chooses who we are and what our desires will be, and we are not born a "clean slate" with no prior history of choices that shaped who we are today. The third part of spirits who CHOSE to follow Lucifer and never come to Earth are proof of that point.

So that convicted murderer who said that he was born with the desire to kill, that he wanted to kill things for as long as he could remember, that he was born with Satan in him.....did God choose for him to have those desires, or did he bring those desires with him from pre-Earth life.

There are quite a few LGBTQ people on Mormons Building Bridges who claim that they KNOW they were LGBTQ before they were ever born here, and that its part of their eternal nature. I believe them. I just don't believe it's a desirable part of their eternal nature.

Ok. We all pick and choose what to believe.

This is precisely why we are told over and over again, repeatedly to feast upon the words Christ so we learn to choose right in all things. When we don't stand for Christ and his teachings and teach these things to our children, we are then enabling them to sin. God does not allow one sin to enter his kingdom.

2 Nephi 32:3
3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.

Colossians 3:16
16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Exodus 4:15
15 And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do.

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 8:09 pm

Silas wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 3:31 pm

catcatinabox wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:31 pm

RocknRoll wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:06 pm

Ya, I don’t think so. Are you saying you had no sexual desires for your spouse until after you were married? Are we supposed to believe that?

So pornography of the mind is not a sin? So undressing other strangers and thinking sexual thoughts/desires about them is not wrong?

Man . . .this world is sick and stay the heck away from my wife and daughters. I don't want some stranger who believes it's perfectly acceptable to play pornography in their mind about them (or have sexual desires about them) any where near my family!

It really makes me get why the Muslims go with the Hijab and burkas. Just take that nonsense off the table. I remember thinking that was oppressive but now I wish we had as much respect for our women as the Muslims do for theirs.

Do they have respect for their women by mutilating their genitals? Here are some stats:

Is FGM (Female Genital Mutilation) required by certain religions?

No religion promotes or condones FGM. Still, more than half of girls and women in four out of 14 countries where data is available saw FGM as a religious requirement. And although FGM is often perceived as being connected to Islam, perhaps because it is practiced among many Muslim groups, not all Islamic groups practice FGM, and many non-Islamic groups do, including some Christians, Ethiopian Jews, and followers of certain traditional African religions.

FGM is thus a cultural rather than a religious practice. In fact, many religious leaders have denounced it.

https://www.unfpa.org/resources/female- ... ce_origins

I'm not sure what you are getting at. It sounded like you were accusing Muslims of supporting FGM but then you went on to say that it is not a religious practice... so what exactly are you getting at?

I don't like genital mutilation of either gender(male circumcision is an equally barbaric practice that no one seems to care about)...not sure exactly what that has to do with praising Muslims for their commitment to modesty and the superior respect and protection that they offer to their women.

Silas wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 8:58 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 8:09 pm

Silas wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 3:31 pm

catcatinabox wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:31 pm
So pornography of the mind is not a sin? So undressing other strangers and thinking sexual thoughts/desires about them is not wrong?

Man . . .this world is sick and stay the heck away from my wife and daughters. I don't want some stranger who believes it's perfectly acceptable to play pornography in their mind about them (or have sexual desires about them) any where near my family!

It really makes me get why the Muslims go with the Hijab and burkas. Just take that nonsense off the table. I remember thinking that was oppressive but now I wish we had as much respect for our women as the Muslims do for theirs.

Do they have respect for their women by mutilating their genitals? Here are some stats:

Is FGM (Female Genital Mutilation) required by certain religions?

No religion promotes or condones FGM. Still, more than half of girls and women in four out of 14 countries where data is available saw FGM as a religious requirement. And although FGM is often perceived as being connected to Islam, perhaps because it is practiced among many Muslim groups, not all Islamic groups practice FGM, and many non-Islamic groups do, including some Christians, Ethiopian Jews, and followers of certain traditional African religions.

FGM is thus a cultural rather than a religious practice. In fact, many religious leaders have denounced it.

https://www.unfpa.org/resources/female- ... ce_origins

I'm not sure what you are getting at. It sounded like you were accusing Muslims of supporting FGM but then you went on to say that it is not a religious practice... so what exactly are you getting at?

I don't like genital mutilation of either gender(male circumcision is an equally barbaric practice that no one seems to care about)...not sure exactly what that has to do with praising Muslims for their commitment to modesty and the superior respect and protection that they offer to their women.

A big difference between male and female circumcision. Comparing the two is like saying trimming your fingernails is akin to amputating your hand. And on a religious note, male circumcision is an everlasting covenant (look it up if you wish) and was never to be done away with.

Silas wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 3:31 pm

catcatinabox wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:31 pm

RocknRoll wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:06 pm

catcatinabox wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 1:57 pm Nope, it's sinful to have sexual desires for individuals who are not our spouse (as in opposite sex spouse). Sexual desires, thoughts, feelings for other individuals (outside of our spouse) is against God's will and laws.

Ya, I don’t think so. Are you saying you had no sexual desires for your spouse until after you were married? Are we supposed to believe that?

So pornography of the mind is not a sin? So undressing other strangers and thinking sexual thoughts/desires about them is not wrong?

Man . . .this world is sick and stay the heck away from my wife and daughters. I don't want some stranger who believes it's perfectly acceptable to play pornography in their mind about them (or have sexual desires about them) any where near my family!

It really makes me get why the Muslims go with the Hijab and burkas. Just take that nonsense off the table. I remember thinking that was oppressive but now I wish we had as much respect for our women as the Muslims do for theirs.

If men cannot control themselves then let’s make the women cover their entire body in a sheet and leave only their eyes visible, if women didn’t need to see then they wouldn’t even allow for that. And let’s call it respect?

Problem is in the heart of the man, she can still be a walking target with a covering over her.

If I have the country correct, Iraq women were not covered in earlier years.

If I had to be covered to such a degree I doubt feeling respected would be in my top 10 and I’m very modest as a person.

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 8:09 pm

Silas wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 3:31 pm

catcatinabox wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:31 pm

RocknRoll wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:06 pm

Ya, I don’t think so. Are you saying you had no sexual desires for your spouse until after you were married? Are we supposed to believe that?

So pornography of the mind is not a sin? So undressing other strangers and thinking sexual thoughts/desires about them is not wrong?

Man . . .this world is sick and stay the heck away from my wife and daughters. I don't want some stranger who believes it's perfectly acceptable to play pornography in their mind about them (or have sexual desires about them) any where near my family!

It really makes me get why the Muslims go with the Hijab and burkas. Just take that nonsense off the table. I remember thinking that was oppressive but now I wish we had as much respect for our women as the Muslims do for theirs.

Do they have respect for their women by mutilating their genitals? Here are some stats:

Is FGM (Female Genital Mutilation) required by certain religions?

No religion promotes or condones FGM. Still, more than half of girls and women in four out of 14 countries where data is available saw FGM as a religious requirement. And although FGM is often perceived as being connected to Islam, perhaps because it is practiced among many Muslim groups, not all Islamic groups practice FGM, and many non-Islamic groups do, including some Christians, Ethiopian Jews, and followers of certain traditional African religions.

FGM is thus a cultural rather than a religious practice. In fact, many religious leaders have denounced it.

https://www.unfpa.org/resources/female- ... ce_origins

Americans mutilate the genitals of males in the US. I don't care if you think doing it to males is less bad. Its not at all like "cutting your nails" its cutting flesh off just like Muslims do to women. Mutilation is mutilation.

Just goes to show how gynocentric we are in the US to still think its okay for males.

Fiannan wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 10:50 pm

Silas wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 8:58 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 8:09 pm

Silas wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 3:31 pm

It really makes me get why the Muslims go with the Hijab and burkas. Just take that nonsense off the table. I remember thinking that was oppressive but now I wish we had as much respect for our women as the Muslims do for theirs.

Do they have respect for their women by mutilating their genitals? Here are some stats:

Is FGM (Female Genital Mutilation) required by certain religions?

No religion promotes or condones FGM. Still, more than half of girls and women in four out of 14 countries where data is available saw FGM as a religious requirement. And although FGM is often perceived as being connected to Islam, perhaps because it is practiced among many Muslim groups, not all Islamic groups practice FGM, and many non-Islamic groups do, including some Christians, Ethiopian Jews, and followers of certain traditional African religions.

FGM is thus a cultural rather than a religious practice. In fact, many religious leaders have denounced it.

https://www.unfpa.org/resources/female- ... ce_origins

I'm not sure what you are getting at. It sounded like you were accusing Muslims of supporting FGM but then you went on to say that it is not a religious practice... so what exactly are you getting at?

I don't like genital mutilation of either gender(male circumcision is an equally barbaric practice that no one seems to care about)...not sure exactly what that has to do with praising Muslims for their commitment to modesty and the superior respect and protection that they offer to their women.

A big difference between male and female circumcision. Comparing the two is like saying trimming your fingernails is akin to amputating your hand. And on a religious note, male circumcision is an everlasting covenant (look it up if you wish) and was never to be done away with.

I clipped my fingernails a couple of weeks ago. It's about time to do it again. My parents clipped my foreskin when I was a baby... it has yet to grow back.

Circumcision of both males and females varies in extremity from just a cut or nick into the genitals or full-on removal of significant portions of highly sensitive flesh. It can have disastrous effects for both males and females. It is painful for children and can cause irritation from urine for months after the circumcision is done. It is also 100% completely unnecessary for both genders and has no statistically significant health benefits. Absolutely no medical need.

It was a part of the old covenant. You may want to do a search of the New Testament, particularly the writings of Paul to get a better understanding of how the old law was fulfilled. Remember that the Doctrine and Covenants teaches us that Eternal is God's name. We don't practice the law of Moses anymore and circumcision is a part of that law. It was an Eternal law because it was given by the Eternal and represented a covenant with the Eternal. That doesn't mean that it is a practice that is to be carried out always by God's people. That covenant is fulfilled and we have been given a new and everlasting covenant through Christ.

If you have any doubt about circumcision being done away know that modern revelation teaches this explicitly.

Moroni 8:8

Listen to the words of Christ, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God.... the law of circumcision is done away in me.

Section 74 of the Doctrine and Covenants also addresses this specifically and notes that circumcision was done away with due to the Law of Moses being fulfilled.

So leave your boy's penises alone. And don't look down on Muslims for FGM when their religion doesn't even teach it and you live in a Christian nation that is carrying on an unnecessary and barbaric practice on their sons which their religion explicitly excuses them from.

MMbelieve wrote: ↑October 9th, 2019, 12:18 am

Silas wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 3:31 pm

catcatinabox wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:31 pm

RocknRoll wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:06 pm

Ya, I don’t think so. Are you saying you had no sexual desires for your spouse until after you were married? Are we supposed to believe that?

So pornography of the mind is not a sin? So undressing other strangers and thinking sexual thoughts/desires about them is not wrong?

Man . . .this world is sick and stay the heck away from my wife and daughters. I don't want some stranger who believes it's perfectly acceptable to play pornography in their mind about them (or have sexual desires about them) any where near my family!

It really makes me get why the Muslims go with the Hijab and burkas. Just take that nonsense off the table. I remember thinking that was oppressive but now I wish we had as much respect for our women as the Muslims do for theirs.

If men cannot control themselves then let’s make the women cover their entire body in a sheet and leave only their eyes visible, if women didn’t need to see then they wouldn’t even allow for that. And let’s call it respect?

Problem is in the heart of the man, she can still be a walking target with a covering over her.

If I have the country correct, Iraq women were not covered in earlier years.

If I had to be covered to such a degree I doubt feeling respected would be in my top 10 and I’m very modest as a person.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that most Muslim women probably like the fact that theirs is literally the only female body that their husband ever sees. Most majority Muslim countries ban pornography and require modesty, so unless he is flagrantly violating his religion and the law of his country his wife's body is the only female body he ever sees. I'm thinking that if you asked Muslim women about the kind of confidence that gives them in their sexuality with their husband most of them are going to respond that it is a huge positive.

I'm also going to assume that they like not having to worry about creepy losers perving on them when they are out and about. I'm going to feel pretty safe in saying that most Muslim women really like that the men in their family and society take active roles in enforcing their safety and protection from bad actors. They probably think it is pretty romantic that their safety and their dignity is taken so seriously. I'm not saying that we need to go full Burka or anything, probably not necessary, but I do like the Hijab.

Silas wrote: ↑October 9th, 2019, 1:09 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑October 9th, 2019, 12:18 am

Silas wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 3:31 pm

catcatinabox wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:31 pm
So pornography of the mind is not a sin? So undressing other strangers and thinking sexual thoughts/desires about them is not wrong?

Man . . .this world is sick and stay the heck away from my wife and daughters. I don't want some stranger who believes it's perfectly acceptable to play pornography in their mind about them (or have sexual desires about them) any where near my family!

It really makes me get why the Muslims go with the Hijab and burkas. Just take that nonsense off the table. I remember thinking that was oppressive but now I wish we had as much respect for our women as the Muslims do for theirs.

If men cannot control themselves then let’s make the women cover their entire body in a sheet and leave only their eyes visible, if women didn’t need to see then they wouldn’t even allow for that. And let’s call it respect?

Problem is in the heart of the man, she can still be a walking target with a covering over her.

If I have the country correct, Iraq women were not covered in earlier years.

If I had to be covered to such a degree I doubt feeling respected would be in my top 10 and I’m very modest as a person.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that most Muslim women probably like the fact that theirs is literally the only female body that their husband ever sees. Most majority Muslim countries ban pornography and require modesty, so unless he is flagrantly violating his religion and the law of his country his wife's body is the only female body he ever sees. I'm thinking that if you asked Muslim women about the kind of confidence that gives them in their sexuality with their husband most of them are going to respond that it is a huge positive.

I'm also going to assume that they like not having to worry about creepy losers perving on them when they are out and about. I'm going to feel pretty safe in saying that most Muslim women really like that the men in their family and society take active roles in enforcing their safety and protection from bad actors. They probably think it is pretty romantic that their safety and their dignity is taken so seriously. I'm not saying that we need to go full Burka or anything, probably not necessary, but I do like the Hijab.

Having been to a few muslim countries myself, I can tell you that pornography is prevalent even there. Hypocrisy runs deep in all religions.

John Tavner wrote: ↑October 9th, 2019, 4:05 pm

Silas wrote: ↑October 9th, 2019, 1:09 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑October 9th, 2019, 12:18 am

Silas wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 3:31 pm

It really makes me get why the Muslims go with the Hijab and burkas. Just take that nonsense off the table. I remember thinking that was oppressive but now I wish we had as much respect for our women as the Muslims do for theirs.

If men cannot control themselves then let’s make the women cover their entire body in a sheet and leave only their eyes visible, if women didn’t need to see then they wouldn’t even allow for that. And let’s call it respect?

Problem is in the heart of the man, she can still be a walking target with a covering over her.

If I have the country correct, Iraq women were not covered in earlier years.

If I had to be covered to such a degree I doubt feeling respected would be in my top 10 and I’m very modest as a person.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that most Muslim women probably like the fact that theirs is literally the only female body that their husband ever sees. Most majority Muslim countries ban pornography and require modesty, so unless he is flagrantly violating his religion and the law of his country his wife's body is the only female body he ever sees. I'm thinking that if you asked Muslim women about the kind of confidence that gives them in their sexuality with their husband most of them are going to respond that it is a huge positive.

I'm also going to assume that they like not having to worry about creepy losers perving on them when they are out and about. I'm going to feel pretty safe in saying that most Muslim women really like that the men in their family and society take active roles in enforcing their safety and protection from bad actors. They probably think it is pretty romantic that their safety and their dignity is taken so seriously. I'm not saying that we need to go full Burka or anything, probably not necessary, but I do like the Hijab.

Having been to a few muslim countries myself, I can tell you that pornography is prevalent even there. Hypocrisy runs deep in all religions.

Oh yeah. There are lots of bad Muslims. Just like with every other group. But as a whole I do think it’s true that they do a better job fighting degeneracy than Christians are doing. It’s not even comparable. Christian nations are failing miserably by comparison.

200 million women around the world are effected by FGM, of which, is child abuse. And, yes, some Islamic factions practice it.

The Truth About Female Genital Mutilation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJwP6C5q6Qg


Female genital mutilation: the UK's hidden crime


Debunking myths around female genital mutilation

Silas wrote: ↑October 9th, 2019, 1:09 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑October 9th, 2019, 12:18 am

Silas wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 3:31 pm

catcatinabox wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 2:31 pm
So pornography of the mind is not a sin? So undressing other strangers and thinking sexual thoughts/desires about them is not wrong?

Man . . .this world is sick and stay the heck away from my wife and daughters. I don't want some stranger who believes it's perfectly acceptable to play pornography in their mind about them (or have sexual desires about them) any where near my family!

It really makes me get why the Muslims go with the Hijab and burkas. Just take that nonsense off the table. I remember thinking that was oppressive but now I wish we had as much respect for our women as the Muslims do for theirs.

If men cannot control themselves then let’s make the women cover their entire body in a sheet and leave only their eyes visible, if women didn’t need to see then they wouldn’t even allow for that. And let’s call it respect?

Problem is in the heart of the man, she can still be a walking target with a covering over her.

If I have the country correct, Iraq women were not covered in earlier years.

If I had to be covered to such a degree I doubt feeling respected would be in my top 10 and I’m very modest as a person.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that most Muslim women probably like the fact that theirs is literally the only female body that their husband ever sees. Most majority Muslim countries ban pornography and require modesty, so unless he is flagrantly violating his religion and the law of his country his wife's body is the only female body he ever sees. I'm thinking that if you asked Muslim women about the kind of confidence that gives them in their sexuality with their husband most of them are going to respond that it is a huge positive.

I'm also going to assume that they like not having to worry about creepy losers perving on them when they are out and about. I'm going to feel pretty safe in saying that most Muslim women really like that the men in their family and society take active roles in enforcing their safety and protection from bad actors. They probably think it is pretty romantic that their safety and their dignity is taken so seriously. I'm not saying that we need to go full Burka or anything, probably not necessary, but I do like the Hijab.

I have talked to military guys that say the homes they have gone into are full of pornography of white women.

MMbelieve wrote: ↑October 9th, 2019, 8:55 pm

Silas wrote: ↑October 9th, 2019, 1:09 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑October 9th, 2019, 12:18 am

Silas wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 3:31 pm

It really makes me get why the Muslims go with the Hijab and burkas. Just take that nonsense off the table. I remember thinking that was oppressive but now I wish we had as much respect for our women as the Muslims do for theirs.

If men cannot control themselves then let’s make the women cover their entire body in a sheet and leave only their eyes visible, if women didn’t need to see then they wouldn’t even allow for that. And let’s call it respect?

Problem is in the heart of the man, she can still be a walking target with a covering over her.

If I have the country correct, Iraq women were not covered in earlier years.

If I had to be covered to such a degree I doubt feeling respected would be in my top 10 and I’m very modest as a person.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that most Muslim women probably like the fact that theirs is literally the only female body that their husband ever sees. Most majority Muslim countries ban pornography and require modesty, so unless he is flagrantly violating his religion and the law of his country his wife's body is the only female body he ever sees. I'm thinking that if you asked Muslim women about the kind of confidence that gives them in their sexuality with their husband most of them are going to respond that it is a huge positive.

I'm also going to assume that they like not having to worry about creepy losers perving on them when they are out and about. I'm going to feel pretty safe in saying that most Muslim women really like that the men in their family and society take active roles in enforcing their safety and protection from bad actors. They probably think it is pretty romantic that their safety and their dignity is taken so seriously. I'm not saying that we need to go full Burka or anything, probably not necessary, but I do like the Hijab.

I have talked to military guys that say the homes they have gone into are full of pornography of white women.

And our men carry around an endless supply of the most depraved and disgusting pornography that you can imagine, and much that you probably can't imagine, on-demand in their pockets at all times. Many of our men can't make it through a workday without viewing pornography.

I highly doubt that the homes they were going into were a good sample of practicing Muslims. They were likely entering the dwellings of enemy combatants more often than not. So if we are going to compare apples to apples I can assure you that our military men are also consuming an enormous amount of pornography. More especially so in combat environments.

I don't claim that all Muslims are devout and godly people. They have got plenty of wicked people among them. But it is still obvious that they are doing a better job than Christian nations at combating and resisting degeneracy. No Muslim countries are coming anywhere close to competing with Christian nations on the amount of smut and degeneracy being produced and consumed.

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑October 9th, 2019, 8:39 pm 200 million women around the world are effected by FGM, of which, is child abuse. And, yes, some Islamic factions practice it.

The Truth About Female Genital Mutilation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJwP6C5q6Qg


Female genital mutilation: the UK's hidden crime

Debunking myths around female genital mutilation

So what is your point? That genital mutilation is bad? I agree. It is horrifying. I'm taking it even further than you and saying that it is barbaric for both genders.

Or is your point that Muslims don't respect their women, because of FGM? Islam doesn't teach FGM. Feel free to prove me wrong, show me where in the Koran it says that God commands Muslims to cut on their baby girls. I'll admit I'm wrong and condemn Islam for mistreating their women if it actually teaches that. Since MOST Muslims don't do it I'm going to go ahead and assume that is just North African barbarism and not Islam.

As for respect for women, earlier today I was at the grocery store and saw two Muslim women who were shopping. They were both wearing the hijab and I walked up to them and thanked them for their example of modesty and said that I wished that Christian women would follow their example. Those ladies were beaming with joy and pride that someone would compliment them for that. They were very obviously happy and well cared for. They carried themselves with dignity.

Muslims are wrong about a lot of stuff, and there are plenty of bad Muslims who don't follow their religion. But in general, they are doing a better job than Christians at respecting and honoring their women, and culturally enforced modesty is part of that.

Silas wrote: ↑October 9th, 2019, 9:49 pmSo what is your point? That genital mutilation is bad? I agree. It is horrifying. I'm taking it even further than you and saying that it is barbaric for both genders.

Or is your point that Muslims don't respect their women, because of FGM? Islam doesn't teach FGM. Feel free to prove me wrong, show me where in the Koran it says that God commands Muslims to cut on their baby girls. I'll admit I'm wrong and condemn Islam for mistreating their women if it actually teaches that. Since MOST Muslims don't do it I'm going to go ahead and assume that is just North African barbarism and not Islam.

As for respect for women, earlier today I was at the grocery store and saw two Muslim women who were shopping. They were both wearing the hijab and I walked up to them and thanked them for their example of modesty and said that I wished that Christian women would follow their example. Those ladies were beaming with joy and pride that someone would compliment them for that. They were very obviously happy and well cared for. They carried themselves with dignity.

Muslims are wrong about a lot of stuff, and there are plenty of bad Muslims who don't follow their religion. But in general, they are doing a better job than Christians at respecting and honoring their women, and culturally enforced modesty is part of that.

My point is for educational purposes, the types of mutilation, the effects of it and that it is practiced in 30 counties, effecting around 200,000,000 females, including some Muslim groups.
No, it is not taught out of the Koran or Christian bibles. It is nothing more that a form of child abuse that is worse than barbarism...it is evil.
You said that Muslims don't practice it and I showed that some do. But so do many other cultures. It is wrong.

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑October 10th, 2019, 11:03 am

Silas wrote: ↑October 9th, 2019, 9:49 pmSo what is your point? That genital mutilation is bad? I agree. It is horrifying. I'm taking it even further than you and saying that it is barbaric for both genders.

Or is your point that Muslims don't respect their women, because of FGM? Islam doesn't teach FGM. Feel free to prove me wrong, show me where in the Koran it says that God commands Muslims to cut on their baby girls. I'll admit I'm wrong and condemn Islam for mistreating their women if it actually teaches that. Since MOST Muslims don't do it I'm going to go ahead and assume that is just North African barbarism and not Islam.

As for respect for women, earlier today I was at the grocery store and saw two Muslim women who were shopping. They were both wearing the hijab and I walked up to them and thanked them for their example of modesty and said that I wished that Christian women would follow their example. Those ladies were beaming with joy and pride that someone would compliment them for that. They were very obviously happy and well cared for. They carried themselves with dignity.

Muslims are wrong about a lot of stuff, and there are plenty of bad Muslims who don't follow their religion. But in general, they are doing a better job than Christians at respecting and honoring their women, and culturally enforced modesty is part of that.

My point is for educational purposes, the types of mutilation, the effects of it and that it is practiced in 30 counties, effecting around 200,000,000 females, including some Muslim groups.
No, it is not taught out of the Koran or Christian bibles. It is nothing more that a form of child abuse that is worse than barbarism...it is evil.
You said that Muslims don't practice it and I showed that some do. But so do many other cultures. It is wrong.

I said that most Muslims don’t do it and Islam doesn’t teach it. Therefore it is not relevant to the point I was making about most Muslims treating their women better than most Christians do.

But yeah I agree, people should not be cutting on their kid’s genitals. I thought barbaric was pretty strong language but I don’t disagree with evil.