POLL: What would you do if the Church accepts homosexuality?

[catcatinabox]

I couldn't vote for any of the options you posted in your survey but if you had asked:

Who thinks this survey is pointless and stupid?..... I surely would have voted for that option!!!

You're welcome NOT to participate, of course. So you think it is an impossible hypothetical scenario? Kind of like: what would you do if you caught your spouse cheating on you? I know, it's hard to think about & painful to consider. So just avoid!

Ha! There's no comparison between the two. Spouses are human.

I couldn't answer the poll, either. There was no option that said, "That's not going to happen." Practices change, but principles do not. If the Church is led by God, that will not happen. Obviously, you are not of the same mind.

As for your "evidence", there is nothing there. It reminds me of a book titled, "Weakness Is Not Sin". We are not penalized for weakness, only for sin. If someone is an alcoholic, but never drinks alcohol, it is not counted to them as sin.

Homosexuality is increasing, and same sex feelings. It is something the Church has to deal with among some members and potential members. They aren't going to speak as hardly as in the past. They want them to come unto Christ, not be driven away by a lack of compassion for what they are dealing with.. But at the same time, they can't and won't accept the practice of homosexuality.

It could get difficult, though. There are many totalitarian-minded people (activists) who are going to keep pushing their agenda to try to get every organization (and church) to conform to it.

All depends on the wickedness or righteousness of the members.

[cathyk]

[/quote]
All depends on the wickedness or righteousness of the members.
[/quote]

Would you care to elaborate on that?

[catcatinabox]

Would you care to elaborate on that?

Sure. Read the scriptures. Follow the patterns, archetypes and symbols in them when it talks about God's chosen people.

Pattern is repeated over and over.

[LDS Watchman]

It's not a double standard to believe that polygamy was sanctioned by God at times, and to also believe that homosexual marriage and sex will never be sanctioned by God at any time. That is just a statement of one person's belief system.

Another person may believe that it was a whoredom for the early saints to practice polygamy, and that it's not a whoredom to be sexually active in a same-sex marriage.

Different beliefs, yes. Double standard, no.

I agree with what you're saying Lizzy... I just think Mathias' comment represents one. In this thread he jumped to labeling questioners of our Church's practice of polygamy as apostates but has no problem saying that he thinks when Nelson and Oaks die the "new guard" are likely to embrace a the whoredom of homosexuality... His trying to snuff out my belief, which differs from his, represents a double standard.

I never specifically referred to you as an apostate. I was referring to apostate groups like the Snufferites who are currently the loudest advocates for the idea that Brigham Young and the other apostles committed whoredoms and led the rest of the Church to embrace whoredoms as well.

It's not a double standard to believe in the early teachings of the Church while lamenting the modern Church caving to the world.

Listen, you're absolutely right that it's not a double standard to believe that... But it kinda is when you get to vocalize your sincere fears that the church is caving to Babylon but then see it as your duty to "set them straight" when others have sincere fears that the church might have caved earlier than you happen to believe it currently is.

You said I don't want the truth, can't handle the truth, am peddling nonsense, and am probably blindly following some apostate group. None of these are true, and neither are you the dispenser of all truth on this or any issue. Neither is it your duty to set anyone straight...

I know I said that I now believe certain ideas are preposterous and represent mental gymnastics, but the context was that I have believed these exact same ideas for my whole life, and I can't accept them any longer... I wasn't trying to accuse you. Sorry if it came across that way.

Just maybe consider being a bit more open to others' sincere fears and concerns, and a little less accusatory, that's all. I bowing out, God bless on your walk with Christ. I'm sorry for bickering....

I get what you're saying. You make a fair point. I was definitely a little aggressive. I apologize for that.

I actually have also strongly considered your position and have spent countless hours looking at all aspects of plural marriage and every perspective. Ultimately I reached the conclusion that plural marriage was commanded by God.

I totally understand that it is a troubling doctrine. I shouldn't have dismissed your arguments like I did. Again I apologize for being contentious.

I wish you well in your quest to follow Christ as well.

[righteousrepublic]

Those in and out of the church who push for sexual agendas like homosexuality, promiscuity, transsexual practices and whoredoms as well as other practices that go against God and his will for man will end up on forbidden paths that could lead them far from God.

3 Nephi 14:13-23
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate; for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, which leadeth to destruction, and many there be who go in thereat;

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore, by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name, and in thy name have cast out devils, and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them: I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
.............................................................................................................................................
How can a practicing homosexual claim to be doing God's will?
How can a person that has had medical treatment to change them from one gender to another claim they are doing God's will? Do they not know that for whatever gender they were born, that same gender will be resurrected...they will be the exact gender forever-after and cannot change their appearance ever again?

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
13 ...for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, which leadeth to destruction, and many there be who go in thereat;


D&C 76:109-112
109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore; See: Matthew 7:13

110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever;

111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared;

112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.

[Jesef]

Those in and out of the church who push for sexual agendas like homosexuality, promiscuity, transsexual practices and whoredoms as well as other practices that go against God and his will for man will end up on forbidden paths that could lead them far from God.

3 Nephi 14:13-23
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate; for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, which leadeth to destruction, and many there be who go in thereat;

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore, by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name, and in thy name have cast out devils, and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them: I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
.............................................................................................................................................
How can a practicing homosexual claim to be doing God's will?
How can a person that has had medical treatment to change them from one gender to another claim they are doing God's will? Do they not know that for whatever gender they were born, that same gender will be resurrected...they will be the exact gender forever-after and cannot change their appearance ever again?

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
13 ...for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, which leadeth to destruction, and many there be who go in thereat;


D&C 76:109-112
109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore; See: Matthew 7:13

110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever;

111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared;

112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.

It's so binary & fundamentalist to group every other sexual practice or orientation, besides heterosexuality, into the whoredom & abomination bucket - it's all or nothing. The science & the sociological evidence is pointing strongly in the direction of "born with"/"created with"/DNA-based same-sex attraction (homosexuality). If you don't know a gay person well enough or personally enough or long enough to have experiential knowledge about this, you should just shut the hell up. I know a very good, gentle person for decades who is gay. He was born that way. He struggled against it for years, didn't want it, didn't choose it. It's who he is, in this body, in this life. And that makes the Creator responsible for the ~5% of the population that is homosexual. Believing "it's a choice" is just extremely ignorant & confirmation biased. When the DNA evidence becomes consensus & incontrovertible, the Church will alter its position - just like it changed its racist doctrines (not "policies" - that's PR BS). Joseph & Brigham borrowed 18th-19th century fundamentalist Christian racism (& slavery) interpretations of the Bible. Joseph even codified them into his Book of Abraham (bogus translation of Egyptian) - & the Church has even edited some of the racist scriptures/verses in the Book of Mormon - but plenty of those verses still remain. The Church will continue to evolve as social pressures mount & people vote with their feet & pocketbooks. Members like to pretend otherwise. They changed the racist doctrine under political pressure (it was about to get real, just like it did with polygamy). They've already relaxed on sexism/patriarchy & they've relaxed on same-sex attraction, in the last 10 years. Orthodox/"Follow the Prophet" believer lemmings are blind to these things - they're just too busy following to think freely, to question, etc. Whatever changes, must be right - & then re-write the history in their minds, like nothing has changed. Everything has changed & will continue to change. But believe as you wish, of course.

Book of Mormon
1 Nephi 11:13 (Mary) ". . . she was exceedingly fair and white."
1 Nephi 12:23 (Prophecy of Lamanites after Christ) ". . . became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations."
1 Nephi 13:15 (Gentiles) ". . . they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people [Nephites] before they were slain."
2 Nephi 5:21 ". . . a sore cursing . . . as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."
2 Nephi 30:6 (Prophecy to Lamanites) ". . . scales of darkness shall begin to fall . . . they shall be a white and delightsome people." (Changed to pure and delightsome in 1981)
Jacob 3:5 (Lamanites cursed) ". . .whom ye hate because of their filthiness and the cursing which hath come upon their skins. . ."
Jacob 3:8-9 ". . .their skins will be whiter than yours . . . revile no more against them because of the darkness of their skins . ."
Alma 3:6 ". . . skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion. . ."
Alma 3:8 (Cursed) ". . .that their seed might be distinguished from the seed of their brethren . . .that they might not mix . . ."
Alma 3:9 ". . . whosoever did mingle his seed with that of the Lamanites did bring the same curse upon his seed."
Alma 3:14 (Lamanites cursed) ". . . set a mark on them that they and their seed may be separated from thee and thy seed. . ."
Alma 3:19 (Amlicites cursed) ". . . brought upon themselves the curse ..."
Alma 23:18 ". . . [Lamanites] did open a correspondence with them [Nephites] and the curse of God did no more follow them."
3 Nephi 2:14-16 ". . . Lamanites who had united with the Nephites were numbered among the Nephites; And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites . . . became exceedingly fair . . ."
3 Nephi 19:25, 30 (Disciples) ". . . they were as white as the countenance and also the garments of Jesus; and behold the whiteness thereof did exceed all the whiteness . . . nothing upon earth so white as the whiteness thereof . . . they were white, even as Jesus."
Mormon 5:15 (Prophecy about Lamanites) ". . .shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us . . ."
Mormon 5:17 "They were once a delightsome people . . ."

Pearl of Great Price
Moses 7:8 ". . . a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan . . ."
Moses 7:12 ". . . Enoch continued to call upon all the people, save it were [except] the people of Canaan, to repent . . ."
Moses 7:22 ". . . for the seed of Cain were black and had not place among them."
Abraham 1:21 ". . . king of Egypt [Pharaoh] was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth."
Abraham 1:27 ". . . Pharaoh being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of Priesthood . . ."

[GaelicVigil]

There is not one single peer-reviewed scientific journal or study that shows a gay gene or an intrinsic gay component in human DNA. Not a single one. Nothing is "pointing in that direction" as the previous poster states. In fact, the largest study on the topic, EVER, which was just recently done, found no such thing

And you can deny skin color is important to the plan of salvation, but you're simply denying the Book of Mormon and the Pearl of Great Price which, as you've shown, is absolutely full of references to it.

As the JST of 1 Peter 1:20 states: "no prophecy of the scriptures is given of any private will of man.". This means that the Scriptures are the words of God, not man. They are not "cultural" or "outdated" or any such thing. You either accept God's word, or you don't. Period.

Edit: By the way, thanks for pointing out the change in 2 Nephi 30:6. I'm going to fix it to the correct wording immediately in my own Scriptures.

[Lizzy60]

Just because homosexuals claim to be "born that way" does not mean that God created them that way. It's called AGENCY. We had agency from the moment we began to exist, and started making choices. This is illustrated graphically by a third part of the spirits choosing to follow Lucifer, and choosing to NOT even come to earth. Did God make them that way?

I recently heard a serial killer say, upon being convicted, that he was born with the devil in him. He said from the time he was a small child he wanted to kill and destroy things. Would you dare to say that God made him that way?

God does not, and never has, created one person to be righteous, and another to be wicked. We have always, always, always, had agency. Any unrighteous desires we brought with our spirits here, we are here to overcome. That's all through the scriptures. The natural man is an enemy to God......

[RocknRoll]

There is not one single peer-reviewed scientific journal or study that shows a gay gene or an intrinsic gay component in human DNA. Not a single one. Nothing is "pointing in that direction" as the previous poster states. In fact, the largest study on the topic, EVER, which was just recently done, found no such thing

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... gay-genes/

[Lizzy60]

There is not one single peer-reviewed scientific journal or study that shows a gay gene or an intrinsic gay component in human DNA. Not a single one. Nothing is "pointing in that direction" as the previous poster states. In fact, the largest study on the topic, EVER, which was just recently done, found no such thing

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... gay-genes/

You can quote science proving that gays are born that way all you want. Even if you find a "gay gene" it doesn't change the fact that God didn't make them gay, it just proves they used agency in the Spirit World -- JUST LIKE WE ALL DID -- and brought character traits, both good and bad, here to earth. It's called fallen nature for a reason. We are NOT created perfect. We are here to overcome our fallen nature, to give up and forsake our sins, not to embrace them, claiming God made us that way so He is pleased when we act on our sinful desires. What a bunch of crap.

AGENCY. We've always had it, we always will.

[RocknRoll]

Just because homosexuals claim to be "born that way" does not mean that God created them that way. It's called AGENCY. We had agency from the moment we began to exist, and started making choices.

God does not, and never has, created one person to be righteous, and another to be wicked. We have always, always, always, had agency. Any unrighteous desires we brought with our spirits here, we are here to overcome. That's all through the scriptures. The natural man is an enemy to God......

At what point did you use your "agency" to choose to be heterosexual? Do you remember actually making that choice?

A person who is born homosexual is not wicked. They may choose wicked actions later in life, but being one orientation or another is not wicked.

Funny that you use the quote..."The natural man is an enemy to God". Wouldn't the "natural man" be heterosexual in your mind?

[Lizzy60]

Just because homosexuals claim to be "born that way" does not mean that God created them that way. It's called AGENCY. We had agency from the moment we began to exist, and started making choices.

God does not, and never has, created one person to be righteous, and another to be wicked. We have always, always, always, had agency. Any unrighteous desires we brought with our spirits here, we are here to overcome. That's all through the scriptures. The natural man is an enemy to God......

At what point did you use your "agency" to choose to be heterosexual? Do you remember actually making that choice?

A person who is born homosexual is not wicked. They may choose wicked actions later in life, but being one orientation or another is not wicked.

Funny that you use the quote..."The natural man is an enemy to God". Wouldn't the "natural man" be heterosexual in your mind?

Are you really LDS? You see, there's this belief we have that a veil has been drawn so that we don't remember our First Estate.
I know that for as long as I can remember, I wanted to marry a man and have children. I brought that desire here with me.
I never said just being gay was evil, I have only ever said that it's a sin to act on it. We are here to act on our righteous desires and to resist our evil desires.

[Silas]

Just because homosexuals claim to be "born that way" does not mean that God created them that way. It's called AGENCY. We had agency from the moment we began to exist and started making choices.

God does not, and never has, created one person to be righteous, and another to be wicked. We have always, always, always, had agency. Any unrighteous desires we brought with our spirits here, we are here to overcome. That's all through the scriptures. The natural man is an enemy to God......

At what point did you use your "agency" to choose to be heterosexual? Do you remember actually making that choice?

A person who is born homosexual is not wicked. They may choose wicked actions later in life, but being one orientation or another is not wicked.

Funny that you use the quote..."The natural man is an enemy to God". Wouldn't the "natural man" be heterosexual in your mind?

I've never accidentally had sex with anyone. I've never entertained immoral thoughts unwillingly. All these things are my choice.

I get that there are various reasons that appetite may not be chosen. But indulging it is always a choice, and our thoughts are choices. In terms of volume, heterosexuals are definitely doing more damage to traditional marriage through their sexual immorality than homosexuals are. But that doesn't excuse homosexuals in the slightest. We are all to deny ourselves of all ungodliness.

It should be stressed more frequently than it is, but individuals can live full, meaningful, and happy lives without engaging in any sexual activity. You aren't entitled to an orgasm. Celibacy is something that the gospel does require of all of us at various times in our lives. For some of us, it is required for the entirety of our mortal journey. This is not something to be ashamed of, we should take honor in the journey of self-mastery and devotion.

If you can marry (using the Lord's unchanging definition of marriage) then you should. But not everyone gets that opportunity in this life, and that is okay.

[GaelicVigil]

There is not one single peer-reviewed scientific journal or study that shows a gay gene or an intrinsic gay component in human DNA. Not a single one. Nothing is "pointing in that direction" as the previous poster states. In fact, the largest study on the topic, EVER, which was just recently done, found no such thing

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... gay-genes/

The study you cited only used just over 800 people in the sample. The more recent study I posted used over 500,00 people and conclusively finds no gay gene. Your study is a joke and inconclusive, and these two geneticists agree with me.

The new information is “intriguing but not in any way conclusive,” Harvard Medical School geneticist Robert Green, MD, told the AP. And Neal Risch, a geneticist at the University of California, San Francisco, told Science the linkages found in the new study are not statistically significant.
https://www.advocate.com/health/2014/11 ... -not-proof

[righteousrepublic]

Those in and out of the church who push for sexual agendas like homosexuality, promiscuity, transsexual practices and whoredoms as well as other practices that go against God and his will for man will end up on forbidden paths that could lead them far from God.

3 Nephi 14:13-23
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate; for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, which leadeth to destruction, and many there be who go in thereat;

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore, by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name, and in thy name have cast out devils, and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them: I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
.............................................................................................................................................
How can a practicing homosexual claim to be doing God's will?
How can a person that has had medical treatment to change them from one gender to another claim they are doing God's will? Do they not know that for whatever gender they were born, that same gender will be resurrected...they will be the exact gender forever-after and cannot change their appearance ever again?

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
13 ...for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, which leadeth to destruction, and many there be who go in thereat;


D&C 76:109-112
109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore; See: Matthew 7:13

110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever;

111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared;

112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.

It's so binary & fundamentalist to group every other sexual practice or orientation, besides heterosexuality, into the whoredom & abomination bucket - it's all or nothing. The science & the sociological evidence is pointing strongly in the direction of "born with"/"created with"/DNA-based same-sex attraction (homosexuality). If you don't know a gay person well enough or personally enough or long enough to have experiential knowledge about this, you should just shut the hell up. I know a very good, gentle person for decades who is gay. He was born that way. He struggled against it for years, didn't want it, didn't choose it. It's who he is, in this body, in this life. And that makes the Creator responsible for the ~5% of the population that is homosexual. Believing "it's a choice" is just extremely ignorant & confirmation biased. When the DNA evidence becomes consensus & incontrovertible, the Church will alter its position - just like it changed its racist doctrines (not "policies" - that's PR BS). Joseph & Brigham borrowed 18th-19th century fundamentalist Christian racism (& slavery) interpretations of the Bible. Joseph even codified them into his Book of Abraham (bogus translation of Egyptian) - & the Church has even edited some of the racist scriptures/verses in the Book of Mormon - but plenty of those verses still remain. The Church will continue to evolve as social pressures mount & people vote with their feet & pocketbooks. Members like to pretend otherwise. They changed the racist doctrine under political pressure (it was about to get real, just like it did with polygamy). They've already relaxed on sexism/patriarchy & they've relaxed on same-sex attraction, in the last 10 years. Orthodox/"Follow the Prophet" believer lemmings are blind to these things - they're just too busy following to think freely, to question, etc. Whatever changes, must be right - & then re-write the history in their minds, like nothing has changed. Everything has changed & will continue to change. But believe as you wish, of course.

Book of Mormon
1 Nephi 11:13 (Mary) ". . . she was exceedingly fair and white."
1 Nephi 12:23 (Prophecy of Lamanites after Christ) ". . . became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations."
1 Nephi 13:15 (Gentiles) ". . . they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people [Nephites] before they were slain."
2 Nephi 5:21 ". . . a sore cursing . . . as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."
2 Nephi 30:6 (Prophecy to Lamanites) ". . . scales of darkness shall begin to fall . . . they shall be a white and delightsome people." (Changed to pure and delightsome in 1981)
Jacob 3:5 (Lamanites cursed) ". . .whom ye hate because of their filthiness and the cursing which hath come upon their skins. . ."
Jacob 3:8-9 ". . .their skins will be whiter than yours . . . revile no more against them because of the darkness of their skins . ."
Alma 3:6 ". . . skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion. . ."
Alma 3:8 (Cursed) ". . .that their seed might be distinguished from the seed of their brethren . . .that they might not mix . . ."
Alma 3:9 ". . . whosoever did mingle his seed with that of the Lamanites did bring the same curse upon his seed."
Alma 3:14 (Lamanites cursed) ". . . set a mark on them that they and their seed may be separated from thee and thy seed. . ."
Alma 3:19 (Amlicites cursed) ". . . brought upon themselves the curse ..."
Alma 23:18 ". . . [Lamanites] did open a correspondence with them [Nephites] and the curse of God did no more follow them."
3 Nephi 2:14-16 ". . . Lamanites who had united with the Nephites were numbered among the Nephites; And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites . . . became exceedingly fair . . ."
3 Nephi 19:25, 30 (Disciples) ". . . they were as white as the countenance and also the garments of Jesus; and behold the whiteness thereof did exceed all the whiteness . . . nothing upon earth so white as the whiteness thereof . . . they were white, even as Jesus."
Mormon 5:15 (Prophecy about Lamanites) ". . .shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us . . ."
Mormon 5:17 "They were once a delightsome people . . ."

Pearl of Great Price
Moses 7:8 ". . . a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan . . ."
Moses 7:12 ". . . Enoch continued to call upon all the people, save it were [except] the people of Canaan, to repent . . ."
Moses 7:22 ". . . for the seed of Cain were black and had not place among them."
Abraham 1:21 ". . . king of Egypt [Pharaoh] was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth."
Abraham 1:27 ". . . Pharaoh being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of Priesthood . . ."

So what is your point?
I never said being gay is a sin. I said acting on the temptations and acts of what homosexuals are attracted to is sin.
And don't try to change the church or the Lord into ministers of sin. The Lord hates sin in any degree. But he loves sinners that repent and strive to keep his commandments no matter the trials and temptations faced. And science cannot justify sin no matter how hard they try...they are not God. Jesus was tempted in all things even as we are, but he gave no heed unto them.

Hebrews 4:15
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Doctrine and Covenants 20:22
22 He suffered temptations but gave no heed unto them.

Mosiah 15:5
5 And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, suffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people.

God expects his children to overcome the evil desires of the body and follow him in all ways. That which we think about or give power to the most will lead us in that direction, either to sin and misery or to God and joy. Science has no say in it, and DNA cannot make a person be a homosexual in practice.

So I am not going to shut the hell up. Therefore, get the facts straight.

[righteousrepublic]

I just cannot believe the level of people coming on this forum and doing everything in their power to justify sin, including using science as a source to make it sound as if God is okay with sin or made it so man has to sin because "they were born that way", to live as a practicing homosexual or whatever makes a sinner tick. It's no wonder some people believe in MMP's. But since false notions, beliefs and ideals will be perpetuated, I doubt another life will fix the problem.

perpetual
adjective... adsiduus, amaranthine, chronic, constant, continuous, deathless, endless, eternal, everlasting, fixed, having no limit, immortal, imperishable, impossible to stop, incessant, indelible, indestructible, ineradicable, inexhaustible, interminable, intransient, lasting, never-failing, perdurable, permanent, perpetuated, persistent, sempiternal, stable, surviving, unceasing, undestroyable, unending, unerasable, unfading, unfailing, uninterrupted, unlimited, unrepealable, without end

Alma 41
2 I say unto thee, my son, that the plan of restoration is requisite with the justice of God; for it is requisite that all things should be restored to their proper order. Behold, it is requisite and just, according to the power and resurrection of Christ, that the soul of man should be restored to its body, and that every part of the body should be restored to itself.

3 And it is requisite with the justice of God that men should be judged according to their works; and if their works were good in this life, and the desires of their hearts were good, that they should also, at the last day, be restored unto that which is good.

4 And if their works are evil they shall be restored unto them for evil. Therefore, all things shall be restored to their proper order, every thing to its natural frame—mortality raised to immortality, corruption to incorruption—raised to endless happiness to inherit the kingdom of God, or to endless misery to inherit the kingdom of the devil, the one on one hand, the other on the other—

5 The one raised to happiness according to his desires of happiness, or good according to his desires of good; and the other to evil according to his desires of evil; for as he has desired to do evil all the day long even so shall he have his reward of evil when the night cometh.

6 And so it is on the other hand. If he hath repented of his sins, and desired righteousness until the end of his days, even so he shall be rewarded unto righteousness.

7 These are they that are redeemed of the Lord; yea, these are they that are taken out, that are delivered from that endless night of darkness; and thus they stand or fall; for behold, they are their own judges, whether to do good or do evil.

8 Now, the decrees of God are unalterable; therefore, the way is prepared that whosoever will may walk therein and be saved.

9 And now behold, my son, do not risk one more offense against your God upon those points of doctrine, which ye have hitherto risked to commit sin.

10 Do not suppose, because it has been spoken concerning restoration, that ye shall be restored from sin to happiness. Behold, I say unto you, wickedness never was happiness.

11 And now, my son, all men that are in a state of nature, or I would say, in a carnal state, are in the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity; they are without God in the world, and they have gone contrary to the nature of God; therefore, they are in a state contrary to the nature of happiness.

12 And now behold, is the meaning of the word restoration to take a thing of a natural state and place it in an unnatural state, or to place it in a state opposite to its nature?

13 O, my son, this is not the case; but the meaning of the word restoration is to bring back again evil for evil, or carnal for carnal, or devilish for devilish—good for that which is good; righteous for that which is righteous; just for that which is just; merciful for that which is merciful.

14 Therefore, my son, see that you are merciful unto your brethren; deal justly, judge righteously, and do good continually; and if ye do all these things then shall ye receive your reward; yea, ye shall have mercy restored unto you again; ye shall have justice restored unto you again; ye shall have a righteous judgment restored unto you again; and ye shall have good rewarded unto you again.

15 For that which ye do send out shall return unto you again, and be restored; therefore, the word restoration more fully condemneth the sinner, and justifieth him not at all.

The sinner cannot be restored to righteousness and happiness but must remain in his sins until he suffers for his own sins and then is redeemed and sent to the telestial world. It's in the book

[RocknRoll]

There is not one single peer-reviewed scientific journal or study that shows a gay gene or an intrinsic gay component in human DNA. Not a single one. Nothing is "pointing in that direction" as the previous poster states. In fact, the largest study on the topic, EVER, which was just recently done, found no such thing

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... gay-genes/

The study you cited only used just over 800 people in the sample. The more recent study I posted used over 500,00 people and conclusively finds no gay gene. Your study is a joke and inconclusive, and these two geneticists agree with me.

The new information is “intriguing but not in any way conclusive,” Harvard Medical School geneticist Robert Green, MD, told the AP. And Neal Risch, a geneticist at the University of California, San Francisco, told Science the linkages found in the new study are not statistically significant.
https://www.advocate.com/health/2014/11 ... -not-proof

We could trade studies and debate which one is the most current or correct all day long. Here's another.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... tudy-says/
"There’s no one ‘gay gene,’ but genetics are linked to same-sex behavior, new study says"

I have formed my opinion by observation and by directly speaking with family and loved ones who are gay. Have you ever just asked a gay person if they believe they were born that way or if they chose to be LGBT?

And of course there are many quotes like the following from the churches website and similar teachings from modern day apostles.

"We may not know precisely why some people feel attracted to others of the same sex, but for some it is a complex reality and part of the human experience."

[Lizzy60]

There is not one single peer-reviewed scientific journal or study that shows a gay gene or an intrinsic gay component in human DNA. Not a single one. Nothing is "pointing in that direction" as the previous poster states. In fact, the largest study on the topic, EVER, which was just recently done, found no such thing

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... gay-genes/

The study you cited only used just over 800 people in the sample. The more recent study I posted used over 500,00 people and conclusively finds no gay gene. Your study is a joke and inconclusive, and these two geneticists agree with me.

The new information is “intriguing but not in any way conclusive,” Harvard Medical School geneticist Robert Green, MD, told the AP. And Neal Risch, a geneticist at the University of California, San Francisco, told Science the linkages found in the new study are not statistically significant.
https://www.advocate.com/health/2014/11 ... -not-proof

We could trade studies and debate which one is the most current or correct all day long. Here's another.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... tudy-says/
"There’s no one ‘gay gene,’ but genetics are linked to same-sex behavior, new study says"

I have formed my opinion by observation and by directly speaking with family and loved ones who are gay. Have you ever just asked a gay person if they believe they were born that way or if they chose to be LGBT?

And of course there are many quotes like the following from the churches website and similar teachings from modern day apostles.

"We may not know precisely why some people feel attracted to others of the same sex, but for some it is a complex reality and part of the human experience."

But here's the truth of the matter. It doesn't matter one single iota if a homosexual is born that way, or if there is some other cause after he is born. It makes no difference on whether or not having gay sex is a sin or not. Because it's either a sinful act, or it isn't. As long as the LDS Church teaches it's a seriously sinful infraction of the law of chastity, then those who do such acts should be disciplined, or they should find another church without the same law of chastity. Why would a gay person who is acting on his gay attractions, or who marries his gay partner, want to be a member of a Church that believes he is committing a serious sin, if he doesn't believe that? Why the need to change Church doctrine when there are lots of churches out there that don't care, or there's the choice to go to no church at all. Why the incessant pushing to change the hearts of minds of committed LDS who are as sure of their beliefs as the gay person is sure of his?

[catcatinabox]

There is not one single peer-reviewed scientific journal or study that shows a gay gene or an intrinsic gay component in human DNA. Not a single one. Nothing is "pointing in that direction" as the previous poster states. In fact, the largest study on the topic, EVER, which was just recently done, found no such thing

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... gay-genes/

The study you cited only used just over 800 people in the sample. The more recent study I posted used over 500,00 people and conclusively finds no gay gene. Your study is a joke and inconclusive, and these two geneticists agree with me.

The new information is “intriguing but not in any way conclusive,” Harvard Medical School geneticist Robert Green, MD, told the AP. And Neal Risch, a geneticist at the University of California, San Francisco, told Science the linkages found in the new study are not statistically significant.
https://www.advocate.com/health/2014/11 ... -not-proof

We could trade studies and debate which one is the most current or correct all day long. Here's another.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... tudy-says/
"There’s no one ‘gay gene,’ but genetics are linked to same-sex behavior, new study says"

I have formed my opinion by observation and by directly speaking with family and loved ones who are gay. Have you ever just asked a gay person if they believe they were born that way or if they chose to be LGBT?

And of course there are many quotes like the following from the churches website and similar teachings from modern day apostles.

"We may not know precisely why some people feel attracted to others of the same sex, but for some it is a complex reality and part of the human experience."

Hey look all those cheating people . . . . it's in their genes!
https://www.insider.com/is-infedility-g ... at-2018-10

It's my genes!!!

That's about as convenient excuse as "the devil made me do it".

Bunch of bull-dokey.

[RocknRoll]

Are you really LDS?

Yes, I am really LDS…have been for over 50 years. Are you? Because I get more of an FLDS vibe from you.

You see, there's this belief we have that a veil has been drawn so that we don't remember our First Estate.
I know that for as long as I can remember, I wanted to marry a man and have children. I brought that desire here with me.

So, you admit that you’ve been heterosexual for “as long as you can remember”. It’s the same for LGB people. Most will tell you that they were attracted to the same sex “as long as they can remember”. There was never a choice made.

I never said just being gay was evil, I have only ever said that it's a sin to act on it. We are here to act on our righteous desires and to resist our evil desires.

Mostly agree. I agree It’s sinful to have sex with a person (gay or straight) before marriage.

Many of the posts on this thread are really sad to me. It’s sad that some people carry such animosity towards a small group of Gods children. People who struggle with a situation that most of us will never understand. With opinions like these, it is no wonder so many feel there is no place for them in the church these days. Thankfully most members of my current ward are not like this (or they hide it well). Which is the direction, I believe, the church as whole is moving.

[catcatinabox]

Are you really LDS?

Yes, I am really LDS…have been for over 50 years. Are you? Because I get more of an FLDS vibe from you.

You see, there's this belief we have that a veil has been drawn so that we don't remember our First Estate.
I know that for as long as I can remember, I wanted to marry a man and have children. I brought that desire here with me.

So, you admit that you’ve been heterosexual for “as long as you can remember”. It’s the same for LGB people. Most will tell you that they were attracted to the same sex “as long as they can remember”. There was never a choice made.

I never said just being gay was evil, I have only ever said that it's a sin to act on it. We are here to act on our righteous desires and to resist our evil desires.

Mostly agree. I agree It’s sinful to have sex with a person (gay or straight) before marriage.

Nope, it's sinful to have sexual desires for individuals who are not our spouse (as in opposite sex spouse). Sexual desires, thoughts, feelings for other individuals (outside of our spouse) is against God's will and laws.

[RocknRoll]

Nope, it's sinful to have sexual desires for individuals who are not our spouse (as in opposite sex spouse). Sexual desires, thoughts, feelings for other individuals (outside of our spouse) is against God's will and laws.

Ya, I don’t think so. Are you saying you had no sexual desires for your spouse until after you were married? Are we supposed to believe that?

[PressingForward]

It’s a sin to have gay sex, and NEWS FLASH! It doesn’t matter if the world accepts gay marriage, it not Gods plan, if you listened
To conference, that was
Re-affirmed yet again.
Sooooo. Stop supporting Gay sex, tell your son he’s going against Gods plan......that is what a loving parent would do.

[catcatinabox]

Nope, it's sinful to have sexual desires for individuals who are not our spouse (as in opposite sex spouse). Sexual desires, thoughts, feelings for other individuals (outside of our spouse) is against God's will and laws.

Ya, I don’t think so. Are you saying you had no sexual desires for your spouse until after you were married? Are we supposed to believe that?

And you are telling me it's perfectly acceptable to have sexual desires for someone who is not your spouse outside of marriage?

We are supposed to believe that?

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

I'll believe Christ and be a Christian rather than someone who thinks the Scriptures-and more particularly Christ's direct words-don't apply.

And don't give me some crap that lust is different than sexual desires.
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/lust
Longing desire; eagerness to possess or enjoy; as the lust of gain.

Someone who is thinking or has sexual desires for someone not their spouse is by definition lusting.

And yes, I did lust after my wife prior to marriage-it was still wrong. Just b/c it's common doesn't make it right.

[catcatinabox]

Nope, it's sinful to have sexual desires for individuals who are not our spouse (as in opposite sex spouse). Sexual desires, thoughts, feelings for other individuals (outside of our spouse) is against God's will and laws.

Ya, I don’t think so. Are you saying you had no sexual desires for your spouse until after you were married? Are we supposed to believe that?

So pornography of the mind is not a sin? So undressing other strangers and thinking sexual thoughts/desires about them is not wrong?

Man . . .this world is sick and stay the heck away from my wife and daughters. I don't want some stranger who believes it's perfectly acceptable to play pornography in their mind about them (or have sexual desires about them) any where near my family!