Impeccable logic. Thank you, Jesef.Jesef wrote: ↑January 29th, 2019, 9:27 am I agree, if Joseph is taken at his word (was honest), then he opposed polygamy. If he practiced it secretly, as all the sources in BY's camp report (including Clayton & Twelve), then he was a (public) liar/deceiver. I would prefer to believe the first option, that Joseph was honest, but that indicts all the successive Brethren as conspirators & liars & whoremongers/adulterers. But it could also mean that 1890-1904 was a course correction by the Lord, via external forces (which overturned many public prophecies as well, i.e. false prophecies). It would also probably mean that D&C 132 is invalid/false revelation.
I haven't been able to find firsthand evidence that seems incontrovertible that Joseph consummated marriages with other women - & there are no offspring to point to, which is the only physical evidence we would have today. It is pretty solid that he "sealed" other women to himself as "spiritual" or eternal wives - even Denver Snuffer acknowledges that - but I still think that is a wonky explanation or practice because those who hold to this say Joseph did that to use the "sealing" keys, "cleverly", to save those women & their families by extension (by sealing them to him & his promises/blessings of exaltation, C&E, etc.). It makes no sense why Joseph couldn't just seal men & women to him as sons & daughters or something obviously platonic & innocent.
I think the whole polygamy thing is a total mess - I don't think the Lord could have authored such a disaster. If it was some kind of test, the humans totally flubbed it, probably for even trying it. Just my opinion.
You articulated well perhaps the dilemma of the day for LDS, which may be cut and dried, like no other issue, and be a line in the sand eventually for many Saints who declare the line has been crossed. For those who think it's unimportant and unworthy of consideration, I can only conclude the koolaid they've drunk is too delicious to stop drinking it, even though it may be poison and killing them by degrees.
The question is: Did Joseph practice polygamy secretly?
His public statements and his public actions (as in excommunicating people who DID practice it) demonstrate his irrevocable opposition to the practice and even its teaching.
His successors have their public statements and actions as well. They openly taught and practiced it as a sacrament of their religion.
But Joseph didn't. He condemned it.
So I ask...assuming that polygamy is an abomination, and founded by and encouraged by Satan, what would Satan do to persuade good men and women to practice it? It's a great question. How would Satan sell something that is an abomination?
#1: he would make it sound righteous and good and "of God". That would be his #1 objective. Otherwise, good Christian people would see it for what it appears to be, which is a sanctioned way for me to have a lot of sex, and be not held accountable to the society they live, but actually praised and lifted up as righteous!
#2: Satan would have the leaders and institution attack those in their society who would oppose it. Censorship would be institutionalized, as a culture of speaking evil of "the Lord's anointed" would be branded as apostate.
#3: a close corollary to #1 would be a complete redefining of what is good and what is bad. Basic definitions would be turned upside down.
Just an hour ago I saw an interview of the out-of-the-closet communist OCASIO-CORTEZ (see https://news.grabien.com/story-ocasio-c ... n-cisgende). She is a tool of Satan. With a straight face (and I can see Brigham Young teaching with a straight face the celestial virtues of polygamy as he sports an erection in his pants), she teaches in this radio interview that all of us cisgenders (new word for me today!), including her, have to acknowledge how blessed we are, and that we have enjoyed cisgender privilege!!!
And therefore, if we do NOT acknowledge our cisgender privilege but instead call gender confused people mentally ill, which is what it is, then WE are the bad guys, WE are morally wrong, WE are intolerant, WE are not loving, WE are not Christian, WE are blinded by cisgender privilege. She attempts to establish an ILLEGITIMATE question which should never be entertained by society and certainly not with school-age children in the state-run classrooms of the gov't re-education camps (public schools)!
Satan must first get the question to be asked, and then he must justify it, and keep fanning the flames of the evil until the abomination is widespread in practice. Satan attacks the moral foundation of our society with transgenderism, as he did with polygamy.
With polygamy, at least procreation was able to occur, and families, however warped by the practice, were allowed to live and survive the best they could bolstered by Christian principles they valued. But with the meteoric and sudden rise of transgenderism, the family is directly assaulted and the very plain nature of gender identity is mindblowingly questioned, and the question is now being carefully considered by perhaps tens of thousands of people. Polygamy abused women in the name of Jesus Christ. Stockholm syndrome was ingeniously brought about, to the delight of the men, as the women played along and loved and supported their righteous abusers. The abuse resulting from the transgender movement takes the sinister nature of abuse to a whole other level. It's stunning. Mental disorder is encouraged and promoted by the schools and the state, so that lifestyle changes and even genitalia is replaced, which results in catastrophic rates of depression and suicide. Both polygamy and transgenderism are abuse.
In both cases, Satan has to redefine evil so that it's somehow acceptable to people. And then he has to make the opposition look bad for opposing his redefinition. It's a system that's tried and true for ANY issue! Redefine and then brand the opposition unfavorably.
A perfect illustration is how one of the most non-racist men of all time -Donald Trump (whose elite golf courses were opened up to blacks and Jews when that was controversial; and who has hired THOUSANDS of black and Hispanics to build his hotels) - is now viewed by millions as racist. The mere wearing of a MAGA hat causes millions of people to view that person as racist. Logic is suspended. Makes no sense. But once that propaganda has been gaslighted to the masses (or a religious society) over and over, it takes root, and bears fruit, EVIL fruit, so that good is viewed as evil, and evil as good.
That's the day we live in, where Satan triumphantly declares, "Now is the great day of my power. I reign from the rivers to the ends of the earth. There is none who dares to molest or make afraid."
Because the people who stand up for basic and obvious truths (like a person with a penis is a male) are the ones who "molest" the transgenders by stating the obvious fact. Sharing the opinion that transgenderism is a mental disorder is a HATE CRIME! Such "hate", they say, is a mental disorder!
Joseph Smith taught the basic principle of morality that you should sleep with your own SINGULAR wife, and not justify your sexual escapades by saying God commanded you to do it. That's pretty basic, but in BY's brand of Mormonism, such monogamous behavior was not celestial and could not earn you a seat at the right hand of God.
Either Joseph Smith was lying about his private life of polygamy, or his successors were. There is no valid 3rd option. God does not keep changing his mind, and suggesting He did, TO EXCUSE the libidos of deceiving men, is surely offensive to God, and really a pathetic excuse to offer to defend an institution. Why not just acknowledge the obvious, that there were/ are liars or deceived among us, and embrace the glorious truths of the Restoration!?
