LDS Freedom Forum

Excluding coffee and tea is what people are talking abt. Members drinking 3 monster energy drinks on way to the temple but can't touch tea or coffee? No common sense there. Tea and coffee should be repealed from temple wow question for recommend.

No one with any sense would consume so called "energy drinks".

Allow members to read the WoW as it was intended/written and apply it with using their own agency to receive the blessings promised or not. Scripture says not a commandment. We have done like the Pharisees and placed a commandment around it. Stop requiring any WoW questions to temple recommend. Instead admonish people to live it and trust/empower them to manage their own affairs.

Imagine sacrament meeting with people bringing their starbucks latte's.

Vision wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 9:38 pm Imagine sacrament meeting with people bringing their starbucks latte's.

Since I don't see people with their Diet Coke right now I don't think this will be an issue.

Yahtzee wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 9:46 pm

Vision wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 9:38 pm Imagine sacrament meeting with people bringing their starbucks latte's.

Since I don't see people with their Diet Coke right now I don't think this will be an issue.

How do you know diet coke isn't in their cool stainless steel bottles that are so common at Church now?

Vision wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 9:52 pm

Yahtzee wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 9:46 pm

Vision wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 9:38 pm Imagine sacrament meeting with people bringing their starbucks latte's.

Since I don't see people with their Diet Coke right now I don't think this will be an issue.

How do you know diet coke isn't in their cool stainless steel bottles that are so common at Church now?

How do you know that coffee or tea isn't in their cool stainless steel bottle?

Vision wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 9:52 pm

Yahtzee wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 9:46 pm

Vision wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 9:38 pm Imagine sacrament meeting with people bringing their starbucks latte's.

Since I don't see people with their Diet Coke right now I don't think this will be an issue.

How do you know diet coke isn't in their cool stainless steel bottles that are so common at Church now?

Since you specifically mentioned Starbucks, I pictured Starbucks mugs. People could be putting ANYTHING in those mugs already.

Yahtzee wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 9:46 pm

Vision wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 9:38 pm Imagine sacrament meeting with people bringing their starbucks latte's.

Since I don't see people with their Diet Coke right now I don't think this will be an issue.

Nope, my hubby keeps his can in the car

I often finish my DP (Diet Pepsi) while walking in, and throw the empty into the trash can at the door,.........

kittycat51 wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 11:11 pm

Yahtzee wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 9:46 pm

Vision wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 9:38 pm Imagine sacrament meeting with people bringing their starbucks latte's.

Since I don't see people with their Diet Coke right now I don't think this will be an issue.

Nope, my hubby keeps his can in the car

Exactly. (Mine too, hahaha!!)

Yahtzee wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 11:23 pm

kittycat51 wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 11:11 pm

Yahtzee wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 9:46 pm

Vision wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 9:38 pm Imagine sacrament meeting with people bringing their starbucks latte's.

Since I don't see people with their Diet Coke right now I don't think this will be an issue.

Nope, my hubby keeps his can in the car

Exactly. (Mine too, hahaha!!)

I leave my Dr pepper in the car. I don't use cans. I get 2 liters and add flavors to it. Huckleberry is my favorite right now. I use stainless cups that I can tell and No one knows what I am drinking.

I really, really, really hope they emphasize the part most people neglect - that following the WofW leaves you open to higher spiritual blessing and, thus, declare that obesity prevention is necessary to increase the spirituality of members and the Church in general.

Fiannan wrote: ↑January 27th, 2019, 8:19 am I really, really, really hope they emphasize the part most people neglect - that following the WofW leaves you open to higher spiritual blessing and, thus, declare that obesity prevention is necessary to increase the spirituality of members and the Church in general.

Certainly the WOW contains guidance with regard to a healthy diet. But it would certainly be possible to follow such a diet and still be overweight. I agree though that a diet as outlined therein is healthy and will lead to spiritual and physical benefits. But I think it would be a mistake to automatically assume that all overweight people disregard this aspect of the WOW. I don’t think people should have to be subjected to weigh ins to get a Temple Recommend. And I can just imagine the gossip and hurtful comments members would direct at one another if the issue were phrased as obesity reduction as you suggest.

jsk wrote: ↑January 27th, 2019, 10:24 am

Fiannan wrote: ↑January 27th, 2019, 8:19 am I really, really, really hope they emphasize the part most people neglect - that following the WofW leaves you open to higher spiritual blessing and, thus, declare that obesity prevention is necessary to increase the spirituality of members and the Church in general.

Certainly the WOW contains guidance with regard to a healthy diet. But it would certainly be possible to follow such a diet and still be overweight. I agree though that a diet as outlined therein is healthy and will lead to spiritual and physical benefits. But I think it would be a mistake to automatically assume that all overweight people disregard this aspect of the WOW. I don’t think people should have to be subjected to weigh ins to get a Temple Recommend. And I can just imagine the gossip and hurtful comments members would direct at one another if the issue were phrased as obesity reduction as you suggest.

Nobody minds shaming women with two ear-rings, heck, an apostle did it a few years back.

Obesity kills as many, if not more, people than smoking. You cannot be obese and be able to run and not be weary.

I always thought the whole 2 ear ring thing was a ridiculous overreach of a cultural Mormon tradition. But in fairness...the quote in question doesn’t imply that more than one ear ring is doctrinal. Rather...it is framed as a matter of respect for the body and a way to stand out as “peculiar” in today’s society. Sort of like the whole “men shouldn’t have beards” silliness some years ago.

I’m not defending obesity...it’s dangerous from a health perspective. But I’ve met many highly spiritual people who are fat. And I’ve seen plenty of obese people who are athletic and can indeed run without getting weary.

I am only disagreeing that weight or body type should play any part in whether or not a person should or shouldn’t get a temple recommend.

I think obesity is a psychological problem. That is why people don't stick to diets. It has to do with issues with security and/or substituting food for an inability to feel worthy of human connection.

Since people use food to substitute their real need for human connection, telling someone not to eat is like telling them they will never get that human connection they need and makes it worse. What they really need is an influx of loving human interaction.

I think Pres. Hinckley said to shut your eyes and let them eat. I think that was wise. Many times the answer to a problem is paradoxical.

Other foods can cause a chemical addiction which is a physical problem. The best way to solve this is to stay away from those chemicals.

thestock wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 9:37 pm Allow members to read the WoW as it was intended/written and apply it with using their own agency to receive the blessings promised or not. Scripture says not a commandment. We have done like the Pharisees and placed a commandment around it. Stop requiring any WoW questions to temple recommend. Instead admonish people to live it and trust/empower them to manage their own affairs.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
so true.
The Word of Wisdom is just that ( a word of wisdom)
This was not a revelation.

it's funny how we can make such a fuss over tea, or even coffee,
while so many Mormons guzzle down Coke or energy drinks, and eat sugar
and artificial everything like it was nothing.
Not to mention the deadly prescription drugs that so many members are so fond of
that you can't even compare anything to how bad they are for you.
I really wonder which is worse.
Yet it's ok, they get their pass to the temple.

lds.org
Section 89
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833.
As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently, he inquired of the Lord concerning it.
This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result.


This was not a revelation.
Section 89 of the D&C came about because of this - as described below

"The situation that arose to evoke the revelation started with a combination of the efforts of the Kirtland Temperance Society (founded in 1830 and predominantly non Mormon), who were opposed to alcohol, tobacco and eating too much meat; and Smith training men in his ‘School of Elders' every day, meeting in a small smoke filled room above Emma's kitchen, with tobacco juice being spit all over the floor. Emma had the job of cleaning up following the meetings."

"Thus Emma, faced almost daily with “having to clean so filthy a floor” as was left by the men chewing tobacco, spoke to Joseph about the matter. Davis Whitmer's account supports Brigham Young's description. “Some of the men were excessive chewers of the filthy weed, and their disgusting slobbering and spitting caused Mrs. Smith … to make the ironical remark that ‘It would be a good thing if a revelation could be had declaring the use of tobacco a sin, and commanding it's suppression.' The matter was taken up and joked about, one of the brethren suggested that the revelation should also provide for a total abstinence from tea and coffee drinking, intending this as a counter ‘dig' at the sisters.” Sure enough the subject was afterward taken up in dead earnest, and the ‘Word of Wisdom' was the result.
(David Whitmer). (Des Moines Daily News, 16 Oct 1886:20 c. in: Newell & Avery 1994:47, also c: An Historical Analysis of the Word of Wisdom, Paul H. Peterson - Masters Thesis, [no location provided]; Also: c. in Tanner 1987:406. See also Tanner 1987: Ch. 26 for excellent coverage). (Emphasis added). "

"Section 89 of the D&C is one of many sections written to appear, not just as inspired words but rather, as if it was direct from the mouth of the Lord, as verse 4 includes “…thus saith the Lord unto you…”

also
"The Mormon Church forbids the use of tea, but according to Joseph Smith's Diary, March 11, 1843, Smith was fond of strong tea: “…in the office Joseph said he had tea with his breakfast. his wife asked him if [it] was good. he said if it was a little stronger he should like it better, when Mother Granger remarked, ‘It is so strong, and good, I should think it would answer Both for drink, and food.'”
This was entirely omitted in the History of the Church (see Vol. 5, page 302)."

jsk wrote: ↑January 27th, 2019, 10:24 am

Fiannan wrote: ↑January 27th, 2019, 8:19 am I really, really, really hope they emphasize the part most people neglect - that following the WofW leaves you open to higher spiritual blessing and, thus, declare that obesity prevention is necessary to increase the spirituality of members and the Church in general.

Certainly the WOW contains guidance with regard to a healthy diet. But it would certainly be possible to follow such a diet and still be overweight. I agree though that a diet as outlined therein is healthy and will lead to spiritual and physical benefits. But I think it would be a mistake to automatically assume that all overweight people disregard this aspect of the WOW. I don’t think people should have to be subjected to weigh ins to get a Temple Recommend. And I can just imagine the gossip and hurtful comments members would direct at one another if the issue were phrased as obesity reduction as you suggest.

If people learned how to fast correctly AND followed the WoW with respects to eating food that has nutrition then obesity would disappear for the majority. The majority are over weight because of eating the wrong food too often and eating more than 3 meals a day.

And the conspiring men in the last days would lose a lot of money.

jsk wrote: ↑January 27th, 2019, 10:24 am

Fiannan wrote: ↑January 27th, 2019, 8:19 am I really, really, really hope they emphasize the part most people neglect - that following the WofW leaves you open to higher spiritual blessing and, thus, declare that obesity prevention is necessary to increase the spirituality of members and the Church in general.

Certainly the WOW contains guidance with regard to a healthy diet. But it would certainly be possible to follow such a diet and still be overweight. I agree though that a diet as outlined therein is healthy and will lead to spiritual and physical benefits. But I think it would be a mistake to automatically assume that all overweight people disregard this aspect of the WOW. I don’t think people should have to be subjected to weigh ins to get a Temple Recommend. And I can just imagine the gossip and hurtful comments members would direct at one another if the issue were phrased as obesity reduction as you suggest.

I thought the huge prevalence of obesity was caused by early birthing and the use of feeding tubes causing the bodies natural hunger/satiated switch to malfunction.

Along with a primarily sedentary lifestyle in which an abundance of calories are injested, with little hard labor expenditure.

Elizabeth wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 9:32 pm No one with any sense would consume so called "energy drinks".

I drink 1 or 2 a month. They are awesome.

thestock wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 9:37 pm Allow members to read the WoW as it was intended/written and apply it with using their own agency to receive the blessings promised or not. Scripture says not a commandment. We have done like the Pharisees and placed a commandment around it. Stop requiring any WoW questions to temple recommend. Instead admonish people to live it and trust/empower them to manage their own affairs.

The "We" in your statement is the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. They are the ones who made the change. When originally given it was not by commandment or constraint as it reads in the D&C, but later, the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles made it so...which is within the bounds of their authority.

The living prophet trumps the scriptures as illustrated in this particular point.

If the current First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles make another change so that following the WOW is no longer a commandment, then ok!

Change is ok. Change is allowed, as long as it is made by the prophet under the direction of the Lord.

Ferrisbueller wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 9:15 pm Excluding coffee and tea is what people are talking abt. Members drinking 3 monster energy drinks on way to the temple but can't touch tea or coffee? No common sense there. Tea and coffee should be repealed from temple wow question for recommend.

I'm guessing you mean you want to start this rumor?

LDS Physician wrote: ↑January 27th, 2019, 1:02 pm

thestock wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 9:37 pm Allow members to read the WoW as it was intended/written and apply it with using their own agency to receive the blessings promised or not. Scripture says not a commandment. We have done like the Pharisees and placed a commandment around it. Stop requiring any WoW questions to temple recommend. Instead admonish people to live it and trust/empower them to manage their own affairs.

The "We" in your statement is the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. They are the ones who made the change. When originally given it was not by commandment or constraint as it reads in the D&C, but later, the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles made it so...which is within the bounds of their authority.

The living prophet trumps the scriptures as illustrated in this particular point.

If the current First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles make another change so that following the WOW is no longer a commandment, then ok!

Change is ok. Change is allowed, as long as it is made by the prophet under the direction of the Lord.

Where was the WoW changed to a “commandment”? Please reference. And, why was it not done via an actual revelation from the Lord which the members would sustain? As it stands, it contradicts the revelation D&C 89, which says “not by commandment or constraint”. Why didn’t the change you’re referring to follow this process:

Harold B. Lee, The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, edited by Clyde J. Williams, p.544 (this was said while he was President of the Church):

The only person authorized to bring forth new revelation is the prophet. If anyone, regardless of his position in the Church, were to advance a doctrine that is not substantiated by the standard Church works, meaning the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price, you may know that his statement is merely his private opinion. The only one authorized to bring forth any new doctrine is the President of the Church, who, when he does, will declare it as a revelation from God, and it will be so accepted by the Council of the Twelve and sustained by the body of the Church. And if any man speak a doctrine which contradicts what is in the standard Church works, you may know by that same token that it is false and you are not bound to accept it as truth. (73-26 European Area Conference Report, 25 August 1973, pp. 66-72.)