LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **March 14th, 2019, 4:16 pm**

Take this thinking exercise with me for a moment.

tobacco = tobacco
wholesome herbs and fruits = wholesome herbs and fruits
flesh of beasts = flesh of beasts
grain = grain
corn = corn
oats = oats
rye = rye
barley = barley
wine and strong drink = wine and strong drink (alcohol)
hot drinks = coffee and tea?

One of these things is not like the others. Well, two actually. It seems strange to me that the Lord lists things explicitly, and then we interpret in a way that doesn't match the specific word with its most obvious definition. Even in the 1830s, the most basic and obvious definition of "hot" was hot in temperature. It's not as if the Lord and Joseph were unaware of the words "coffee" and "tea."

The second thing is "wine and strong drink." This, to me, is a reference to strong wines and liquors, not mild fermented drinks like beers and ales homemade wines. There is a "prohibition" against drunkenness in the scriptures, but not against mild drinks. In other words, it seems to me that the Lord here is saying it isn't wise to drink to drunkenness, and that wine and strong drink are specifically mentioned because of how little you have to drink to get drunk; but, he then explicitly says when it is wise to make and use wine. "Wine of your own make" IS alcoholic. The yeast on the skins and stems and/or in the air is sufficient to ferment homegrown grapes. Smashing the grapes, breaking the skin, exposes the juice to the yeast and creates one condition necessary for the sugar to be converted to alcohol. Therefore, if you're making wine of your own make, it is generally going to have some percentage of alcohol, depending on how quickly it is consumed.

And why doesn't hot drinks mean hot, as in temperature...as in, "Hey guys, don't burn your mouth or your body with hot liquid, because it's not good for you!"? I believe that's exactly what it means, and they associated it with coffee and tea because both were typically consumed at a hot temperature.

My opinion is that there will be a WoW restoration at some point, whether sooner or later, and that drunkenness will be "condemned" while mild drinks are considered a moderation thing, and that "hot drinks" will mean "hot drinks," as in "hot temperature." In addition, I believe it will again be considered a word of wisdom and principle with a promise and not mandatory for baptism or ordinances. And, yes, I would be delighted if we started using real church-made wine for the sacrament instead of water.

I'll obey the word to the wise as presently interpreted, and I encourage everyone else to do so as well. But I do believe it will eventually be restored to its original state as revealed to Joseph Smith.

Posted: **March 14th, 2019, 4:57 pm**

STRONG drinks = Coke, Pepsi, Mountain Dew, Dr. Pepper, Monster, etc.

They are so strong they are very useful as paint remover, engine parts cleaner, unclogging drains, cleaning jewelry etc.

Not to mention the effect on the human body of the carbonation, high sugar content and the aluminum container.

Get it? S-T-R-O-N-G drinks - Follow the Lord's principle, not the Church defined" letter."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://hackspirit.com/shocking-impact- ... rain-body/

Here’s what happens 20 minutes after drinking a Cola

In the 20 minutes following the consumption of a can of cola, the body’s blood sugar levels spike and your body feels like it is vibrating.

In fact:

If someone drank cola for the first time, there is enough sugar in it to make them physically sick. As in, they could vomit from the stimulation they experience while drinking cola.

But as you get used to drinking it, something worse happens:

These short-term impacts seem to lessen…just like the high from a drug. You tolerate the negative effects more easily and you don’t realize what damage it’s actually doing to your body.

The body also has to absorb that sugar and the liver kicks into high gear to try to break down the sugar, which it can’t, and then it turns to fat.

Because of the high caffeine content, our body can feel energized and stimulated, but within 40 minutes, the caffeine is absorbed and we start to feel sluggish again.

During this spike, our blood pressure also increases, which can lead to vision problems, heart problems, dizziness, and more.

Within the hour following the consumption of a can of cola, you’ll find that you need to urinate, but that the sense of relief might not follow even though you can’t physically urinate more.

What’s more, the nutrients that are being broken down and processed in your intestines are also lost through frequency of urination related to drinking cola because it sweeps out the calcium and magnesium when the cola binds to the nutrients.

That means that drinking sodas on a regular basis can lead to osteoporosis and bone disorders over time.

It’s not just about the heart and pancreas.

There is a lot going on in your vital organs that can cause serious and lasting problems.

The stimulus received from the can of cola also causes your pupils to dilate, your body to become sluggish and you want to beat that feeling so you reach for another can.

It’s a vicious cycle.

It’s no wonder soft drink sales are up around the world and companies like Coca-Cola are trying to be in every venue, arena, store, market, and airport around the world.

They know that people can get addicted and start to crave these drinks, which means big bucks for them.

So the next time you are going to reach for a cola, think about how your body is physically reacting to it before you take another sip. It might be the kick you need to stop drinking it altogether.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is also some research about the correlation between Alzheimer's and aluminum (it's the can)

https://www.globalhealingcenter.com/nat ... m-dangers/

Aluminum and Alzheimer's

Many of the formal inquiries into aluminum toxicity are specifically concerned with its association to Alzheimer's. Consistently, experts agree that aluminum exposure is something to worry about.

The position of the Department of Neurology and Psychiatry at Saint Louis University is that aluminum may cause liver toxicity and lead to degenerative symptoms, including Alzheimer's. [6]

Researchers at The School of Studies in Zoology at Jiwaji University in India describe aluminum as a potent neurotoxin associated with Alzheimer's. [7]

The University of California, Irvine's Department of Medicine has reported that aluminum causes inflammation in the brain. No surprise, Alzheimer's disease is often associated with elevated inflammation. [8]

The University School of Medicine in Belgrade published information showing that drinking water with a high aluminum and low fluoride concentration is associated with Alzheimer's risk. [9]

Unfortunately, this is evident in New Guinea and Papua Islands where drinking water contains aluminum ions and ALS or Parkinson's disease is collectively found. [10]

The concern about aluminum pollution in drinking water has even reached as far away as Egypt. [11]

Posted: **March 14th, 2019, 7:33 pm**

WikiUp wrote: ↑March 14th, 2019, 4:57 pm STRONG drinks = Coke, Pepsi, Mountain Dew, Dr. Pepper, Monster, etc.

Why would the Lord have been referring to this in the WOW? I don't believe they were around back then..

Posted: **March 14th, 2019, 7:37 pm**

If the WOW were to be changed as rumoured, then that would amount to a complete reversal. Some may say a restoration, but that would imply that it was interpreted wrongly, and that the Lord never meant for us to be denied Tea, Coffee, and Alcohol.

Why would the Lord have allowed that to be the "revealed" instruction for so long if it were wrong?

Posted: **March 14th, 2019, 8:17 pm**

JustDan wrote: ↑March 14th, 2019, 7:37 pm If the WOW were to be changed as rumoured, then that would amount to a complete reversal. Some may say a restoration, but that would imply that it was interpreted wrongly, and that the Lord never meant for us to be denied Tea, Coffee, and Alcohol.

Why would the Lord have allowed that to be the "revealed" instruction for so long if it were wrong?

Many present realities are temporary. In fact, most are. It's part of the condition of the family of Adam. It's a product of agency.
This is my opinion - the Lord, Jesus Christ, revealed what is now Section 89 to Joseph Smith. The members of the church grew contentious about the interpretation of the revelation, and how to govern relating to it. Because of contention, the brethren felt inspired to make the changes they made. Their changes were inspired, but they were also temporary. But while they exist, the brethren teach them with courage and power. The principles in the revelation aren't temporary, but the precise interpretation and enforcement are, because that is what we, the members of the church, deserve and need at the present time. When we are prepared to live in the manner revealed to Joseph Smith, which is to be taught correct principles (like avoiding drunkenness, avoiding tobacco and hot drinks, and like moderation in good things) and then to govern ourselves, the temporary nature of the present interpretation and enforcement will be restored to its original intent. God is unchanging, but the reality we live in is fluid, within boundaries, so that we can act and be acted upon according to agency.

Another point is that you say it's a complete reversal. It should be understood that our current understanding of the section is a reversal from the original understanding. So, if you're concerned about a reversal, it already happened, which is why we have what we have today. I think of the Israelites who were anxious about Jesus Christ fulfilling the law of Moses (temporary) and teaching a "new" law, which was actually a restoration of an ancient law "replaced" because of contention/wickedness. In other words, they got what they deserved or needed for the time, but then Jesus Christ restored the higher law that was had anciently.

It's the chiasmus principle. In many cases, if we want to know the future of the church, we only need to look to the past. There are so many things for which that is true. And, it's just my opinion, based on feelings I've had, that it will eventually be true of Section 89 as well.

Posted: **March 15th, 2019, 8:07 am**

JustDan wrote: ↑March 14th, 2019, 7:33 pm
WikiUp wrote: ↑March 14th, 2019, 4:57 pm STRONG drinks = Coke, Pepsi, Mountain Dew, Dr. Pepper, Monster, etc.

Why would the Lord have been referring to this in the WOW? I don't believe they were around back then..

The Lord was revealing a principle, not referring to specific products. We were being warned of future circumstances.

D&C 89:4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

5 That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, ...

Posted: **March 15th, 2019, 1:05 pm**

thestock wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 9:37 pm Allow members to read the WoW as it was intended/written and apply it with using their own agency to receive the blessings promised or not. Scripture says not a commandment. We have done like the Pharisees and placed a commandment around it. Stop requiring any WoW questions to temple recommend. Instead admonish people to live it and trust/empower them to manage their own affairs.

Is this Bishop Stock from Missouri??

Posted: **March 15th, 2019, 1:11 pm**

Son-of-Liberty wrote: ↑March 15th, 2019, 1:05 pm
thestock wrote: ↑January 26th, 2019, 9:37 pm Allow members to read the WoW as it was intended/written and apply it with using their own agency to receive the blessings promised or not. Scripture says not a commandment. We have done like the Pharisees and placed a commandment around it. Stop requiring any WoW questions to temple recommend. Instead admonish people to live it and trust/empower them to manage their own affairs.

Is this Bishop Stock from Missouri??

No but he sounds like my kind of Bishop.

Posted: **March 20th, 2019, 4:44 pm**

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑February 20th, 2019, 8:54 am It is my opinion that the current policy regarding the Word of Wisdom is a wise policy based on wise tradition, not on a commandment from God. It is incumbent upon us to obey it, because it is an official policy, but I believe it will be changed (totally my opinion) to a literal translation of the text in section 89, which means it will not be considered a commandment (the section explicitly calls it NOT a commandment), and it will have nothing to do with coffee and tea, unless they are consumed at a hot temperature, which I believe the section refers to when it says "hot." I don't understand why we think God would go to all the trouble to name tobacco and alcohol by name, including a bunch of other things (wheat, barley, etc.), and then not name coffee and tea by name, but instead say, "hot" when referring to them. I think the best way to interpret "hot" is literally, meaning God is telling us it is wise for us to not drink beverages at a hot temperature. Not that we should rely on science to guide our understanding of scripture, but science does confirm this. Drinking hot beverages is bad for health and causes cancer. Of course, people would come out of the woodwork demanding a specific temperature, which would defeat the purpose of section 89, which is God giving us a bit of His wisdom, not by way of commandment, but allowing us to use good principles to guide our own lives.
So, yeah, I believe we'll get a WOW change, and I hope it's soon. Section 89 is marvelous the way it was given to us directly from God. I believe that if God wants it changed to an actual scriptural commandment, He will produce the faith necessary to canonize new scripture pertaining thereunto. Otherwise, I believe it will be restored to its original intent. I guess we'll find out.

Interesting article that just came out about a recent study on the relationship between drinking hot drinks (temperature) and cancer. The article says "tea," but note that it isn't the specific beverage that matters, it's the temperature and whether or not it's damaging the mouth and esophagus. I sincerely believe this is what the Lord was getting at. I think He was saying, "Hey guys, you know how you are so stupid that you drink boiling-hot liquid that burns your mouth and throat on the way down? Well, like I said, that's stupid and will get you killed. Stop doing it, if you'll listen to My wisdom." Okay, so I make a terrible Lord, but you get my point. Proscribing coffee and tea eliminated a ton of opportunity for members to slowly burn themselves to death. It was brilliant. It was inspired.
https://www.ksl.com/article/46514513/dr ... study-says

Posted: **March 20th, 2019, 7:55 pm**

I just want to smoke cigarettes, I won’t live long enough to get cancer so at 70 we should be able to smoke.

Posted: **March 22nd, 2019, 8:58 pm**

WikiUp wrote: ↑March 14th, 2019, 4:57 pm STRONG drinks = Coke, Pepsi, Mountain Dew, Dr. Pepper, Monster, etc.

They are so strong they are very useful as paint remover, engine parts cleaner, unclogging drains, cleaning jewelry etc.

Not to mention the effect on the human body of the carbonation, high sugar content and the aluminum container.

Get it? S-T-R-O-N-G drinks - Follow the Lord's principle, not the Church defined" letter."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://hackspirit.com/shocking-impact- ... rain-body/

Here’s what happens 20 minutes after drinking a Cola

In the 20 minutes following the consumption of a can of cola, the body’s blood sugar levels spike and your body feels like it is vibrating.

In fact:

If someone drank cola for the first time, there is enough sugar in it to make them physically sick. As in, they could vomit from the stimulation they experience while drinking cola.

But as you get used to drinking it, something worse happens:

These short-term impacts seem to lessen…just like the high from a drug. You tolerate the negative effects more easily and you don’t realize what damage it’s actually doing to your body.

The body also has to absorb that sugar and the liver kicks into high gear to try to break down the sugar, which it can’t, and then it turns to fat.

Because of the high caffeine content, our body can feel energized and stimulated, but within 40 minutes, the caffeine is absorbed and we start to feel sluggish again.

During this spike, our blood pressure also increases, which can lead to vision problems, heart problems, dizziness, and more.

Within the hour following the consumption of a can of cola, you’ll find that you need to urinate, but that the sense of relief might not follow even though you can’t physically urinate more.

What’s more, the nutrients that are being broken down and processed in your intestines are also lost through frequency of urination related to drinking cola because it sweeps out the calcium and magnesium when the cola binds to the nutrients.

That means that drinking sodas on a regular basis can lead to osteoporosis and bone disorders over time.

It’s not just about the heart and pancreas.

There is a lot going on in your vital organs that can cause serious and lasting problems.

The stimulus received from the can of cola also causes your pupils to dilate, your body to become sluggish and you want to beat that feeling so you reach for another can.

It’s a vicious cycle.

It’s no wonder soft drink sales are up around the world and companies like Coca-Cola are trying to be in every venue, arena, store, market, and airport around the world.

They know that people can get addicted and start to crave these drinks, which means big bucks for them.

So the next time you are going to reach for a cola, think about how your body is physically reacting to it before you take another sip. It might be the kick you need to stop drinking it altogether.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is also some research about the correlation between Alzheimer's and aluminum (it's the can)

https://www.globalhealingcenter.com/nat ... m-dangers/

Aluminum and Alzheimer's

Many of the formal inquiries into aluminum toxicity are specifically concerned with its association to Alzheimer's. Consistently, experts agree that aluminum exposure is something to worry about.

The position of the Department of Neurology and Psychiatry at Saint Louis University is that aluminum may cause liver toxicity and lead to degenerative symptoms, including Alzheimer's. [6]

Researchers at The School of Studies in Zoology at Jiwaji University in India describe aluminum as a potent neurotoxin associated with Alzheimer's. [7]

The University of California, Irvine's Department of Medicine has reported that aluminum causes inflammation in the brain. No surprise, Alzheimer's disease is often associated with elevated inflammation. [8]

The University School of Medicine in Belgrade published information showing that drinking water with a high aluminum and low fluoride concentration is associated with Alzheimer's risk. [9]

Unfortunately, this is evident in New Guinea and Papua Islands where drinking water contains aluminum ions and ALS or Parkinson's disease is collectively found. [10]

The concern about aluminum pollution in drinking water has even reached as far away as Egypt. [11]

With the soda issue, you're right about everything except for the high caffeine content. Even Mountain Dew, which is considered the highest, has a low caffeine content. The caffeine in the average can of soda just isn't that much at all. It's the SUGAR that's the doozy. I've known people who I saw claim to take their first sip of soda. They liked the taste, but they couldn't stomach drinking more then a few sips. The complaint was that it was just too darn sweet. Compare that to many of us who can chug down two or three cans a day. Isn't that odd? The thought of drinking 8 glasses of water a day seems impossible, yet all that crazy amount of sugar goes down daily like a fat kid on a seesaw.

LDS Freedom Forum

Rumor WOW change?

Re: Rumor WOW change?

Re: Rumor WOW change?

Re: Rumor WOW change?

Re: Rumor WOW change?

Re: Rumor WOW change?

Re: Rumor WOW change?

Re: Rumor WOW change?

Re: Rumor WOW change?

Re: Rumor WOW change?

Re: Rumor WOW change?

Re: Rumor WOW change?