Rumor WOW change?

[Robin Hood]

Just because they used the word "commandment" in reference to WoW, does not make it so, & does not overturn or trump the Lord's words in the revelation itself "not by commandment or constraint" - unless another official revelation comes forth to do so. It has to be canonized. What's with this cultural habit, now fully entrenched, of just quoting every Leader or Apostle opinion/quote like it is gospel truth or scripture?

And, even if the WoW were changed from "not by commandment" ("or constraint" - have we made it a constraint by restricting Temple attendance by it? Yes we have), how do you explain that it is still NOT prohibitionist like our current implementation/practice has become?

Has any President of the Church brought forth the new doctrine that the WoW is a “commandment” &, when he did, declared it as a revelation from God, and it was accepted by the Council of the Twelve and sustained by the body of the Church? And if any man (including Church presidents or apostles) spoke a doctrine which contradicts what is in the standard Church works (like that the WoW is a commandment when the canonized standard-work/revelation says it is “not by commandment or constraint”), you may know by that same token that it is false and you are not bound to accept it as truth.

Yes, the motion was brought forth before church in General Conference by President Brigham Young on September 9, 1851. "The motion was accepted unanimously and became binding as a commandment for all Church members thereafter."

The Word of Wisdom:The Principle and the Promises
Boyd K. Packer - Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles - April 1996

While the revelation came first as a “greeting; not by commandment or constraint” (D&C 89:2), when members of the Church had had time to be taught the import of the revelation, succeeding Presidents of the Church declared it to be a commandment. And it was accepted by the Church as such.

It's clear that the WoW is not a commandment.

It appears I need to repost this again. The Word of Wisdom is a commandment not a church policy. Too many people here in this thread are stating otherwise.

When modern day prophets of the Lord, who are His voice upon the earth, state it is a commandment, it is a commandment. Obeying the Word of Wisdom is a requirement for baptism, not just being temple worthy. Modern day revelation supersedes previous scripture and prophets. This is the Lord's pattern just as it was in the Old Testament days. He continues to nudge us towards His higher laws.

The Word of Wisdom isn't even one of His higher laws. If the saints still have issue with it being a commandment, they no wonder we have yet to receive more that was revealed in the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon. It appears the body of the saints isn't ready still.

D&C 89:2. Is the Word of Wisdom a Commandment Today?

Although the Word of Wisdom was received on 27 February 1833, its acceptance by individual members of the Church was gradual. On 9 September 1851, some eighteen years after it was given, the Patriarch to the Church, John Smith, delivered a talk in general conference on the Word of Wisdom. During his address, President Brigham Young arose and proposed that all Saints formally covenant to abstain from tea, coffee, tobacco, whiskey, and “all things mentioned in the Word of Wisdom” (“Minutes of the General Conference,” Millennial Star, 1 Feb. 1852, p. 35). The motion was accepted unanimously and became binding as a commandment for all Church members thereafter.

Bishops and stake presidents are responsible for determining whether members are worthy to receive Church ordinances such as baptism or those available in the temple or to enter the temple to receive ordinances for others. Keeping the Word of Wisdom is a part of that worthiness.

For the first 18 years, there was a transition period. This allowed members, who may have been addicted to these substances, time to ditch the habit instead of trying to do it cold turkey.

D&C 89:2. Why Does the Lord Say “Not by Commandment or Constraint”?

“The reason undoubtedly why the Word of Wisdom was given—as not by ‘commandment or restraint’ was that at that time, at least, if it had been given as a commandment it would have brought every man, addicted to the use of these noxious things, under condemnation; so the Lord was merciful and gave them a chance to overcome, before He brought them under the law. Later on, it was announced from this stand, by Pr ... the Lord. [See Young, Discourses of Brigham Young, pp. 183–84].” (Joseph F. Smith, in Conference Report, Oct. 1913, p. 14.)

President Heber J. Grant emphasized that the Word of Wisdom was a commandment and warned those who did not obey it that “the day is gone by when the Lord will trifle with the Latter-day Saints. He has said that His Spirit shall not always strive with man.” (Gospel Standards, pp. 55–56.) Although the Lord allowed a time of adjustment for those who were already members of the Church when the Word of Wisdom was given, today it is expected that all Saints adhere to the commandment.

The Word of Wisdom

This revelation is known as the Word of Wisdom. Obedience to this commandment is a requirement for baptism into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Great blessings are promised to those who show their faith by obeying this commandment.

Note that the church's official pamphlet on the Word of Wisdom also states "other harmful or addictive substances". Yes, we do not need to be commanded in all things but when we are, like with the Word of Wisdom, we are to obey to be worthy to have His spirit to be with us.

No amount of posturing or rumour mongering is going to change a commandment from the Lord. If such a change were to occur, like the church accepting gay marriage or sealings, it would completely fracture the church irreparably.

The Living Prophet: The President of the Church

The President of the Church presides over all priesthood quorums and the general membership of the Church. President James E. Faust (1920–2007) of the First Presidency explained: “He is the senior Apostle on the earth. He has been ordained and set apart as the prophet, seer, and revelator to the world. He has been sustained as the President of the Church. He is the presiding high priest over all the priesthood on the earth. He alone holds and exercises all the keys of the kingdom under the Lord Jesus Christ, who is the head of this Church and is the chief cornerstone” (“Continuing Revelation,” Ensign, Aug. 1996, 5).

D&C Official Declaration 1

President Wilford Woodruff (1807–98) declared that we can have full confidence in the direction the prophet is leading the Church:
“The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty” (Official Declaration 1, “Excerpts from Three Addresses by President Wilford Woodruff Regarding the Manifesto”; emphasis added).

Any prophet trying to circumvent the Lord and His commandments will not be allowed to do so.

I'm sorry Sunain, but you're batting on a decidedly sticky wicket here.
You can quote any manual you like, any GC talk you like, or any Ensign article you like. None of them have the ability to convert a revelation directly from God stating it is not a commandment, to something meaning the opposite.
Just saying "it's a commandment" doesn't make it so.

[Vision]

A friend got me thinking about going a bit more vegan (did I just write that?). Emphasis on “thinking.” More wisdom in the idea of eating meat sparingly from the World Health Organization...

• “CSPI Petitions USDA for Cancer-Risk Warning Labels on Meat
  For years, researchers have debated the link between the consumption of red meat and cancer. On October 26, 2015, the World Health Organization (WHO) took what is perhaps the most definitive and aggressive position thus far by any health organization on this hot-button issue, announcing that, based on a 22-member expert panel’s analysis of more than 800 studies, processed meat (e.g., sausages, bacon) should be classified as “carcinogenic” and red meat should be considered “probably carcinogenic.” This conclusion was immediately questioned.”
  
  On December 1, 2016, the Center for Science in the Public Interest (CSPI) petitioned the USDA to mandate labels on packages of processed meat and poultry that would warn consumers that frequent consumption of those products may increase the risk of colorectal cancer. CSPI’s petition cites as support the controversial October 2015 WHO findings which concluded that processed meat is carcinogenic to humans.
  https://www.dailyintakeblog.com/2016/12 ... s-on-meat/

And again - it isn’t so much what’s in your mug as how HOT it is. “Hot drinks are not for the body or belly.”

• “On June 15, 2016, the IARC reported that scientific evidence suggests that very hot beverages — around 65 degrees Celsius [149 degrees Fahrenheit] or higher — probably cause esophageal cancer. Although the organization previously had rated coffee as “possibly carcinogenic,” it has now reversed this classification. On the contrary, some studies indicate that coffee may reduce the risk of developing certain types of cancer.”
  https://www.dailyintakeblog.com/2016/06 ... hot-water/

Thinker you should think about the motives behind those groups calling for labels on meat. WHO is of the opinion that raising meat contributes to global warming, and CSPI is cleverly named animal rights group. When I hear words like these I am drawn to the words of Paul in 1st Timothy Chapter 4

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

[Sunain]

I'm sorry Sunain, but you're batting on a decidedly sticky wicket here.
You can quote any manual you like, any GC talk you like, or any Ensign article you like. None of them have the ability to convert a revelation directly from God stating it is not a commandment, to something meaning the opposite.
Just saying "it's a commandment" doesn't make it so.

Following the teaching of the Lord through His modern day prophets is NOT batting on "decidedly sticky wicket". As members of His church, missionaries, and leaders, we have been taught and we understand the direct scientifically proven reasons for the Word of Wisdom to be a commandment now.

The Savior himself gave numerous commandments in the Old Testament that have then been superseded and updated as time has gone on. Do we follow the Mosaic Law? No, it was superseded by a higher law, a new law.

As I said above, the Word of Wisdom is one such law. The prophets are His mouthpiece on the earth. We believe that the prophet is His word on the earth. I quoted 2 modern day prophets stating that it is a commandment. There is no debate on the topic. Prophets have taught it is a commandment. The church has now instituted it as a requirement for baptism. The Savior doesn't have objections to this because His prophets follow His word. When that scripture was given, He knew that going cold turkey would not work, so there was a transitional period to allow the saints to be able to conform with this commandment. This is fair, just like all that He does is fair and just.

It has been 168 years since President Young declared the Word of Wisdom was a commandment. Since that time, we see the Wisdom in that has been proven ten fold over. Requiring members at this point to follow it should be almost second nature but apparently after all this time, that is not the case. That is what I'm unfortunately sad to realize from reading this thread. Also sad to see so many members of the church quick to dispute the word of the Lord through His modern day prophets.

[Robin Hood]

WHO is of the opinion that raising meat contributes to global warming...

If greenhouse gases are a climate change driver, then this is true. Methane is a very efficient greenhouse gas, far more so that CO2.
Eliminating livestock farming for meat would drastically reduce the production of methane, and would be almost the equivalent of taking every car off the road and every plane out of the sky.

[Vision]

Modern day revelation supersedes previous scripture and prophets. This is the Lord's pattern just as it was in the Old Testament days. He continues to nudge us towards His higher laws.

Yozaaa. Scriptures? I suppose you will quote a dead prophets talk to support this.

[Elizabeth]

Blue bottles, cockroaches, spiders, flies, rats, snakes ...

....Paul in 1st Timothy Chapter 4

4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

[braingrunt]

I hear some people criticizing the church for requiring us to live the word of wisdom in it's modern understanding. Mind boggling.

The scriptures tell me to hearken to the prophets, and I don't recall it saying "only if they canonize their words to the DC".

So let's just appease everyone and say that yes even to this day DC88 is not by commandment.
What we are REQUIRED to live today, might rightly be called something different, and if you can't cope with the name collision I urge you to name it however you please.

Whatever you call it, it's my testimony that it is Wisdom for our day, and carries the spirit and blessings of the original--particularly as we look for new ways to submit ourselves to the spirit of it, as our progression permits--rather than kick against it at every opportunity.

[Vision]

WHO is of the opinion that raising meat contributes to global warming...

If greenhouse gases are a climate change driver, then this is true. Methane is a very efficient greenhouse gas, far more so that CO2.
Eliminating livestock farming for meat would drastically reduce the production of methane, and would be almost the equivalent of taking every car off the road and every plane out of the sky.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/mqejXs7XgsU" [/youtube]

[Vision]

WHO is of the opinion that raising meat contributes to global warming...

If greenhouse gases are a climate change driver, then this is true. Methane is a very efficient greenhouse gas, far more so that CO2.
Eliminating livestock farming for meat would drastically reduce the production of methane, and would be almost the equivalent of taking every car off the road and every plane out of the sky.

Just watched this on youtube yesterday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqejXs7XgsU&t=5s

There is no consensus so until there is there is no scientific conclusion to greenhouse gases damage to the earth.

[Vision]

Blue bottles, cockroaches, spiders, flies, rats, snakes ...

....Paul in 1st Timothy Chapter 4

4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

What's a blue bottle? Never heard that before.

[Robin Hood]

Blue bottles, cockroaches, spiders, flies, rats, snakes ...

....Paul in 1st Timothy Chapter 4

4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

What's a blue bottle? Never heard that before.

A big juicy fly.

[Elizabeth]

A beach goer would know LOL.

https://www.google.com.au/search?source ... UBbu-DAyS8

I regularly avoid them when beach walking. I have only been stung once, and that was more than enough.
One of my sons was badly stung recently when surfing.

[Thinker]

Modern day revelation supersedes previous scripture and prophets. This is the Lord's pattern just as it was in the Old Testament days. He continues to nudge us towards His higher laws.

Yozaaa. Scriptures? I suppose you will quote a dead prophets talk to support this.

Doesn’t that apply to the vast majority of scripture?

[Hie'ing to Kolob]

Or that a 60-y.o. man shouldn't marry a 14-y.o. young woman?

That has always been wrong, and will always be wrong. You shouldn't need someone to tell you it's wrong and you should stay away from anyone who tells you it's righteous.

At age 57 Lorenzo Snow married 16-year old Sara Minnie Ephramina Jensen. (had a child a year later. Lorenzo had actually been courting her since she was 14, but married at 16)

How old were the wives Abraham took after the death of his sister/wife Sarah? They bore him children but are not described as miracle births as was Sarah's. So they must have been at least 60 years younger than him.

You are going to need to do better than that if you are trying to build a case for a 57 year old man marrying a 16 year old girl.

Are you so blindly willing to follow the infallibility of the Brethren that you'd sacrifice your own morality and try to defend this garbage? Would you be ok with your 16 year old daughter marrying a righteous 57 year old man?

[Fiannan]

You are going to need to do better than that if you are trying to build a case for a 57 year old man marrying a 16 year old girl.

Are you so blindly willing to follow the infallibility of the Brethren that you'd sacrifice your own morality and try to defend this garbage? Would you be ok with your 16 year old daughter marrying a righteous 57 year old man?

No, if Abraham was really old when he took young wives and reproduced with them then one has to ask, was he a prophet or a dirty old man? Come on now, what was he?

As for age differences, what do you think of this one?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/arti ... e-gap.html

[Hie'ing to Kolob]

You are going to need to do better than that if you are trying to build a case for a 57 year old man marrying a 16 year old girl.

Are you so blindly willing to follow the infallibility of the Brethren that you'd sacrifice your own morality and try to defend this garbage? Would you be ok with your 16 year old daughter marrying a righteous 57 year old man?

No, if Abraham was really old when he took young wives and reproduced with them then one has to ask, was he a prophet or a dirty old man? Come on now, what was he?

As for age differences, what do you think of this one?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/arti ... e-gap.html

Child bearing does not mean they needed to be children themselves. Now you are throwing Abraham under the bus to defend this perversion with nothing other than the suggestion that his wife after Sarah was capable of bearing children... It's an argument from silence.

Also, do you live by Old Testament morality? Anything that happened in that book from, incest, to genocide, to murdering children is on the table for you?

[Fiannan]

Child bearing does not mean they needed to be children themselves. Now you are throwing Abraham under the bus to defend this perversion with nothing other than the suggestion that his wife after Sarah was capable of bearing children... It's an argument from silence.

Also, do you live by Old Testament morality? Anything that happened in that book from, incest, to genocide, to murdering children is on the table for you?

Oh now stop it, you know I was not throwing Abraham under the bus; rather I was asking if anyone here was willing to throw him under the bus.

So how old was Abraham when he had Isaac? Pretty old, much older than 60-ish. So Isaac grows up, meaning Abraham gets even older. Sarah dies, Abraham marries more women and makes babies with them. Since Sarah's pregnancy was considered a miracle it is mentioned in the Bible. The others were not. So therefore they could not have been older than their 30s. And considering how marriage worked in those days they were more likely teens.

So come on now, the bus is coming, you gonna toss a prophet of God in its way?

As for morality, Jesus quoted the Old Testament quite often. Show me where he condemned any prophet of the Old Testament.

[Sunain]

Modern day revelation supersedes previous scripture and prophets. This is the Lord's pattern just as it was in the Old Testament days. He continues to nudge us towards His higher laws.

Yozaaa. Scriptures? I suppose you will quote a dead prophets talk to support this.

It appears to be needed, so I will post a modern day living prophet and apostle.

“My Words … Never Cease”

Elder Jeffrey R. Holland Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
In general conference last October, I said there were two principal reasons The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is accused, erroneously, of not being Christian. At that time I addressed one of those doctrinal issues—our scripturally based view of the Godhead. Today I would like to address the other major doctrine which characterizes our faith but which causes concern to some, namely the bold assertion that God continues to speak His word and reveal His truth, revelations which mandate an open canon of scripture.

Some Christians, in large measure because of their genuine love for the Bible, have declared that there can be no more authorized scripture beyond the Bible. In thus pronouncing the canon of revelation closed, our friends in some other faiths shut the door on divine expression that we in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints hold dear: the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, the Pearl of Great Price, and the ongoing guidance received by God’s anointed prophets and apostles. Imputing no ill will to those who take such a position, nevertheless we respectfully but resolutely reject such an unscriptural characterization of true Christianity.

One of the arguments often used in any defense of a closed canon is the New Testament passage recorded in Revelation 22:18: “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of … this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.” However, there is now overwhelming consensus among virtually all biblical scholars that this verse applies only to the book of Revelation, not the whole Bible. Those scholars of our day acknowledge a number of New Testament “books” that were almost certainly written after John’s revelation on the Isle of Patmos was received. Included in this category are at least the books of Jude, the three Epistles of John, and probably the entire Gospel of John itself.1 Perhaps there are even more than these.

If you do not believe in modern day prophets, then you believe what most Christians also believe that there can be no more word. Christ is not going to bring in the Word of Wisdom, then call it a commandment and then according to this rumour, retract it? That is not His pattern.

Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet

President Ezra Taft Benson - First Presidency Message
First: The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
Second: The living prophet is more vital to us than the Standard Works.
Third: The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
Fourth: The prophet will never lead the Church astray.
Fifth: The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or diplomas to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
Sixth: The prophet does not have to say “Thus saith the Lord” to give us scripture.
Seventh: The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
Eighth: The Prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
Ninth: The prophet can receive revelation on any matter—temporal or spiritual.
Tenth: The prophet may well advise on civic matters.
Eleventh: The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
Twelfth: The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
Thirteenth: The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—The highest quorum in the Church.
Fourteenth: The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.

[Jesef]

"Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet" delivered at BYU by Elder Ezra Taft Benson in 1980 was reprimanded/censored by then sitting-President Spencer W. Kimball - do a little research (https://rationalfaiths.com/fourteen-fun ... g-prophet/). The fact that it keeps getting repeated is a good example of, ONCE AGAIN (in cult-like fashion), quoting every Apostle's opinions as if they were Gospel truth/canonized-scripture. This is a CULTure-of-TBM staple & tradition, but it's false & wrong & there are too many instances of erroneous & overturned & contradictory opinions/teachings by authorities (current vs past, in particular) to use this as a Standard - which is why there's a process for adding official new scripture - which we apparently don't follow anymore, as a culture - this is a HUGE problem.

Also, Brigham Young, in 1851 did not announce a new revelation changing the WoW to a commandment & nothing was added to the scriptures to reflect it, which is why no one even know about that meeting. Do a little more reading here: https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-cont ... N03_68.pdf - that vote is not binding on us today. It's not even recorded in a way that most people know about it. It's not scripture. It's as binding as BY's teachings on Adam-God, Blood Atonement, Polygamy, & Race.

And you've completely failed to address Beer/Ale ("mild" barley drinks) which are permitted in the revelation - they are NOT prohibited - why would the Lord say that they are good for man? Where is the commandment to be prohibitionists? Do you see how that contradicts the actual revelation even IF it were a commandment? Also, sacramental wine (not grape juice) - definition of wine is alcoholic. The wine Jesus created at the wedding was "the good wine" - that's not grape juice either. The bridegroom at that wedding feast (in Cana) said, "Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now." Would Jesus have created good alcoholic wine for wedding guests if it were a sin? Nope. Drinking wine & beer/ale aren't sins. Being a drunkard probably is - although Noah is recorded to have been drunk & the scriptures called him perfect in his generation.

[JohnnyL]

Or that a 60-y.o. man shouldn't marry a 14-y.o. young woman?

That has always been wrong, and will always be wrong. You shouldn't need someone to tell you it's wrong and you should stay away from anyone who tells you it's righteous.

At age 57 Lorenzo Snow married 16-year old Sara Minnie Ephramina Jensen. (had a child a year later. Lorenzo had actually been courting her since she was 14, but married at 16)

Ha ha ha!!! I hope anyone reading this reply can see how convoluted the reasoning is.
We NEED MUST HAVE DESPERATELY AWAIT a very clear, UNDENIABLE HEAVENLY WITNESS the WoW is a COMMANDMENT, and the principle worth following.
But for other things, what the heck, my own wisdom is enough.
Brilliant. ;(

[JohnnyL]

https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine-and ... m?lang=eng
A few quotes from prophets... You'll even see "commandment" a few times.

https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-br ... 9?lang=eng
You'll notice BY was already very serious about the WoW. No, it didn't start to become serious with HJG.

"Those who, because of their acceptance and use of the Word of Wisdom, possess a clean body, a clear mind and a spirit in tune with the infinite, are best able to assist in establishing the Kingdom of God on earth, and thereby to render greatest service to their fellow men. They also find the greatest happiness in life, for their capacity for joy is unhindered by a weak body, a dull mind, and dim spiritual vision. They find a new wealth of joy in every commonplace of life. They have eyes and they see; ears and they hear. Their understanding is reinforced with the spiritual light of truth. There are many laws of the Gospel that lead towards spirituality. Among them the Word of Wisdom stands unchallenged" (John A. Widstoe, The Word of Wisdom: A Modern Interpretation, 283-84).

"Brigham Young once said that 'every principle of the gospel carries with it a conviction of its truth to those who live it.' I believe that with all my heart. The Word of Wisdom carries with it a conviction of truth to those who live it. What a marvelous thing it is. Four hundred thousand people die each year as a result of tobacco. You cannot live the Word of Wisdom, you cannot observe it, without recognizing the hand of the Lord in this marvelous thing which we call the Word of Wisdom, which is the only law of health anywhere under the heavens that carries with it a divine promise concerning those who observe it and live it. And that conviction comes into our hearts of its truth and divinity as we live it" (Gordon B. Hinckley, Jacksonville Florida West Stake Conference, January 19, 1997).

I am glad you provided these links.

Brigham Young ran multiple stills. He provided liquor for pioneer day celebrations around Utah. He sold liquor to the railroad for $4/barrel. All while occasionally preaching on the virtues of the WoW.

Joseph Smith continued to smoke cigars publicly after receiving the WoW revelation.

Things are a bit more complicated than simply providing a few hand picked quotes. The fact is after historical research into this topic, any reasonable person must conclude that it wasn't taken very seriously by the majority of members, including leadership, for quite a while. It appears alcohol was taken seriously during prohibition, and tobacco and coffee/tea sometime after that.

I don't deny the hand of the Lord in the revelation or the wisdom found therein. I simply believe the Lord when He says it should not be a commandment, and nearly everyone involved in the Church at the time of the revelation felt that way too.

You don't seem to have read much from the links.

My comments fully respond to yours & your linked quotes. Yours do not adequately address mine (& others) or rationally explain the discrepancy. Thus your repeated statement appears to be strong confirmation bias affirming authoritative opinion turned tradition still masquerading today & taught as doctrine, in the absence of real or official & binding revelation/scripture, contradictory to the actual dictated canonized revelation/scripture still sitting there unaltered, un-revised. And also contradicting the content of said canonized revelation/scripture. Blinded by tradition literally it would seem. Awake!

It's laughable when someone tries a rebuke so miserably absent of the Spirit.
I'd suggest you truly humble yourself, forgive God and His leaders, pray, and live it in faith till you get an answer.

[JohnnyL]

Or that a 60-y.o. man shouldn't marry a 14-y.o. young woman?

That has always been wrong, and will always be wrong. You shouldn't need someone to tell you it's wrong and you should stay away from anyone who tells you it's righteous.

At age 57 Lorenzo Snow married 16-year old Sara Minnie Ephramina Jensen. (had a child a year later. Lorenzo had actually been courting her since she was 14, but married at 16)

How old were the wives Abraham took after the death of his sister/wife Sarah? They bore him children but are not described as miracle births as was Sarah's. So they must have been at least 60 years younger than him.

Well, Abraham didn't have it sustained and voted on, so it wasn't a commandment for him to do it, and probably not even a suggestion--he was like all the modern prophets, hypocrites and men of the flesh--as he well knew this would make it down to billions of people. Bad boy. Bad, bad boy.
Were all them like... others here with us now, I guess?

[Sunain]

Another point I completely forgot about is just 2 months ago, the Word of Wisdom was updated to include marijuana specifically can only be used in a medical form. This falls in line with using products with alcohol, tea oil, opium, ect for medical purposes only not recreational. They are not going to backtrack so quickly as that is not His way. He expands upon or improves upon what was previously given to improve ourselves by following His commandments. That is His pattern.

Also, Brigham Young, in 1851 did not announce a new revelation changing the WoW to a commandment & nothing was added to the scriptures to reflect it, which is why no one even know about that meeting. Do a little more reading here: https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-cont ... N03_68.pdf - that vote is not binding on us today. It's not even recorded in a way that most people know about it. It's not scripture. It's as binding as BY's teachings on Adam-God, Blood Atonement, Polygamy, & Race.

I'm sorry but when a prophet of the Lord backs up another Prophet, in this case President Heber J. Grant saying the same thing that President Young stated years later that it was a commandment, it completely nullifies that authors opinion. It is still taught today in seminary and institute in the links I posted above, that the Word of Wisdom is a commandment in which they quote those two prophets.

The official position of the church is that the Word of Wisdom is a commandment, which is why we are asked both in baptism interviews and temple interviews if we follow it.

[JohnnyL]

It's clear that the WoW is not a commandment. That doesn't mean we should not observe it or that we have an excuse for ignoring it. We don't need to be "commanded in all things".
For me, the opening statements about being warned and forewarned (present and future) concerning evil and conspiring men in the last days are the crux of the issue, rather than the individual proscriptions per se.
So are we breaking a commandment of God if we have a hot drink? Not really.
Would we be flinging his advice and forewarning back in his face? I think we would.

It occurred to me a few years ago that there are other aspects the Lord may have had in mind when the WoW was issued.
These include:
Modern meat production methods/animal husbandry.
The treatment of indigenous people kicked off their land to make way for corporate cash crops (coffee etc).
Production methods (chemicals) for non-seasonal fruit etc. Do we really need strawberries in the winter?
Food miles.
Faceless "food" corporations.
Monsanto...

The list goes on.

I completely agree with this. This is a big reason why we mortals can't always see and understand what God does.

When you get to a road and tell a two-year old to stop, look, wait, and then cross with an adult, it seems pretty stupid to the child.

[JohnnyL]

Another point I completely forgot about is just 2 months ago, the Word of Wisdom was updated to include marijuana specifically can only be used in a medical form. This falls in line with using products with alcohol, tea oil, opium, ect for medical purposes only not recreational. They are not going to backtrack so quickly as that is not His way. He expands upon or improves upon what was previously given to improve ourselves by following His commandments. That is His pattern.

Also, Brigham Young, in 1851 did not announce a new revelation changing the WoW to a commandment & nothing was added to the scriptures to reflect it, which is why no one even know about that meeting. Do a little more reading here: https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-cont ... N03_68.pdf - that vote is not binding on us today. It's not even recorded in a way that most people know about it. It's not scripture. It's as binding as BY's teachings on Adam-God, Blood Atonement, Polygamy, & Race.

I'm sorry but when a prophet of the Lord backs up another Prophet, in this case President Heber J. Grant saying the same thing that President Young stated years later that it was a commandment, it completely nullifies that authors opinion. It is still taught today in seminary and institute in the links I posted above, that the Word of Wisdom is a commandment in which they quote those two prophets.

Yes.

My links showed it was more than just "a curriculum writer" (as some might make an excuse), but other prophets, apostles, and GA's.