LDS Freedom Forum

https://russia-insider.com/en/politics/ ... b0GGLIk5Xg

Just curious, in regards to marriage, if the Church has changed its stands on this issue or not.

I believe in discouraging interracial marriage. It is what I teach my children. The Church has distanced itself from these teachings, however I believe they hold true. Moses married a Cushite woman in his youth, a princess of Ethiopia. Miriam and Aaron didn't want her to go with Israel in the Exodus (they were punished for their prejudice). However, Moses took Zipporah to wife, she was from the Semitic line Midianite (Same race/ blood as Moses) Remember Jethro her father conferred the Melchizedek Priesthood to Moses. Abraham and Isaac forbade their sons from marrying a Canaanite woman. Abraham sent Eliezer back to Ur to find a wife for Isaac of the same blood (family).

"When I said you must teach your people to overcome their prejudices and accept the Indians, I did not mean that you would encourage intermarriage ... we must discourage intermarriage ... it is not expedient." -Spencer W. Kimball

Fiannan wrote: ↑January 18th, 2019, 7:51 am Just curious, in regards to marriage, if the Church has changed its stands on this issue or not.

Well the church has not condemned interracial marriage as sinful for some time. They reiterated this position clearly here:

Today [December 13, 2013], the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse, or that it reflects unrighteous actions in a premortal life; that mixed-race marriages are a sin; or that blacks or people of any other race or ethnicity are inferior in any way to anyone else. Church leaders today unequivocally condemn all racism, past and present, in any form.

—Race and the Priesthood

However, the church has recommended against interracial marriage (ostensibly as pragmatic advice and nothing more) until relatively recently. The famous quote that has lived on in lesson manuals comes from a BYU devotional given by Spencer W. Kimball in 1976:

We recommend that people marry those who are of the same racial background generally, and of somewhat the same economic and social and educational background (some of those are not an absolute necessity, but preferred), and above all, the same religious background, without question.

This quote is found in what I believe to be the last version of the Aaronic priesthood lesson manuals, before the switch to Come Follow Me. But I don't see any reference to it in the new curriculum.

Perhaps most telling is that the current CES student manual for Religion 150: The Gospel and the Productive Life includes a reference to the quote in Chapter 11: Selecting and Becoming an Eternal Companion, but omits the line about race:

We recommend that people marry those who are … of somewhat the same economic and social and educational background (some of those are not an absolute necessity, but preferred), and above all, the same religious background, without question.”

But there is a reference to the full talk (and a live link in the online version) so it doesn't seem like they are trying to hide anything, maybe just indicate that the advice about race isn't relevant anymore.

Regardless of the motivation behind it, I think it's clear that the church no longer considers interracial marriage to be an issue of pragmatic concern, let alone any doctrinal significance.

But regarding your article about the Russians, I can't imagine any prophet or apostle in recent memory who would argue that the sin of extramarital sex is either mitigated or exacerbated by the races of those involved. That sounds like some Brigham Young level nonsense. Which means that your Harold B. Lees and Bruce R. McConkies probably believed it but knew better than to speak up about it.

sin of extramarital sex is either mitigated or exacerbated by the races of those involved.

I think her point is valid. Interracial children have a much harder time is some cultures, communities, societies and families. Throughout the ages, God has commanded people not to mix.

"There will be girls who meet men, and then they will give birth," Pletnyova said via translation. “Maybe they will get married, maybe they won’t. But the kids will suffer, just like they suffered [after the Moscow Olympics].”

Has the US government ever advised women not to have sex with men that they hardly know? They wouldn't want to dictate what a women can or can't do with her body even if it is to the detriment of herself and the nation.

Russia recognizes the merits of family and they are promoting their citizens to have more babies by way of the Day of Conception holiday. They stress the burden that the nation, mother, and child face when no father is in the home. They also know that statistically interracial marriages don't do as well and they know that diversity in the nation is a challenge that is tearing the USA apart. Its not PC, but they're right.

Primary Outcast wrote: ↑January 18th, 2019, 2:29 pm Has the US government ever advised women not to have sex with men that they hardly know?

What do you call the abstinence-only sex education programs that have been funded by the federal government since 1981?

captainfearnot wrote: ↑January 18th, 2019, 3:37 pm

Primary Outcast wrote: ↑January 18th, 2019, 2:29 pm Has the US government ever advised women not to have sex with men that they hardly know?

What do you call the abstinence-only sex education programs that have been funded by the federal government since 1981?

That's a good point, but I don't remember much from 5th grade.

My brother's girlfriend raised a little girl all by herself (not even close family to help her). Now my brother and this girl are living together and they just had a baby. What is going through her head!

If two people love each other, does anyone really think that God cares what the color of their skin is?

Col. Flagg wrote: ↑January 18th, 2019, 5:25 pm If two people love each other, does anyone really think that God cares what the color of their skin is?

If two people love each other, does anyone really think that God cares what sexual orientation they are?

Now my brother and this girl are living together and they just had a baby. What is going through her head!

Maybe I am out of line. However, she is going to have problems pair-bonding with your brother. Single mothers do not have a winning record with relationships. What is going through your brothers head?

Interracial marriages can be very problematic.
For that reason I would generally advise against it.

Robin Hood wrote: ↑January 19th, 2019, 1:42 am Interracial marriages can be very problematic.
For that reason I would generally advise against it.

Any marriage can be problematic. Do we advise against marriage?

Any supposed negative caused by an interracial marriage is complete nonsense.

I am white and married to a black African. My brother has also married a black African. Zero problems.

The truth is, in any relationship, the two partners must come together and unite. There are of course differences, and compromises must be made. Even two people, same race, same religion, same economic background, and from the same town, can have significant differences. Fine, there are obvious differences in an interracial marriage.. but sometimes, those differences can be turned into amazing strengths.

For me, I totally love my wife's culture and everything about her past that made her what she is. Focus on positives, and unite together. It is completely false that an interracial marriage should be avoided.

Interracial marriage is not an issue unless you hang out with prejudice people - but who would want to hang out with people like that?

The challenge is inter-cultural marriage - but that can be inter-faith (Muslim and Mormon), or inter-financial class (rich and poor) or inter-mental-health (insane and sane)...

Ideally - no matter the differences (which there are always plenty of), each is humble to allow the other to uplift in areas where one is strong and the other is weak. So the 2 together are better.

Cue music, dj in WA...

djinwa wrote: ↑October 10th, 2018, 1:53 pm

Spoiler

JustDan wrote: ↑January 19th, 2019, 6:19 pm

Robin Hood wrote: ↑January 19th, 2019, 1:42 am Interracial marriages can be very problematic.
For that reason I would generally advise against it.

Any marriage can be problematic. Do we advise against marriage?

Any supposed negative caused by an interracial marriage is complete nonsense.

I am white and married to a black African. My brother has also married a black African. Zero problems.

The truth is, in any relationship, the two partners must come together and unite. There are of course differences, and compromises must be made. Even two people, same race, same religion, same economic background, and from the same town, can have significant differences. Fine, there are obvious differences in an interracial marriage.. but sometimes, those differences can be turned into amazing strengths.

For me, I totally love my wife's culture and everything about her past that made her what she is. Focus on positives, and unite together. It is completely false that an interracial marriage should be avoided.

I know of women who married men of other races and the men's families treat them like absolute garbage. One is married to a black man and the other a native american. Often, the families have their own racism and prejudice against others that lay hidden because frankly, they don't really want to interact that much with the race in question. Then, all of a sudden, their loved one falls in love with someone of that particular culture, and that person gets the brunt of the hostility and mistreatment. Then, when kids are born, the kids tend to suffer because the other kids their age, and sometimes even other adults, treat them different, or are flat out cruel.

I have a cousin who is black. She would come over and play with the rest of us cousins when we had family get togethers. Her mom wasn't married to her dad and he died in prison while she was pregnant with her. Very bad situation. When she was five or six, my brother, about the same age, innocently asked if she were adopted. He could see she was different then the rest of the family, and while it didn't bother him, he was naturally curious on why that was. So was I. She ran into the house to tell what he said, and it made for a rather awkward moment. My family, up until that point, were wanting to treat this girl just like the rest of the family, but they made the mistake in trying to pretend that she wasn't even black. Later on, as a teenager, she said she wishes she was either all one way or another. In other words, either a white girl or a black girl.

I remember a time when my family went out to eat at a restaurant, and right behind us came in a family who's kids I knew from school. They were black. Quite black as a matter of fact, and after after everyone was all seated and both families orders had been taken, my dad started getting all misty eyed and spoke of how wonderful it was to see them "here with us". We weren't together, they just happened to come in at the same time we did. But my dad went over to their table and said, "I am so glad you people can come in here and eat with us". I was absolutely mortified, and my classmate and I were looking at each other from across the room not knowing what in the world was going on. But the old folks at her table knew EXACTLY what he was talking about and they all started bawling together, shaking hands and hugging and stuff.

Studio C - run by church school, BYU seems to be advertising interracial couples, and more...

Wasn't there a thread about this not too long ago?

Thinker wrote: ↑January 19th, 2019, 7:51 pm Studio C - run by church school, BYU seems to be advertising interracial couples, and more...

Oh you mean the black dude who came out as queer hooking up with the white chick???

No wonder this world is screwed up and no wonder women can't find good men . . .

Robin Hood wrote: ↑January 19th, 2019, 1:42 am Interracial marriages can be very problematic.
For that reason I would generally advise against it.

Could you expound on that RH? Thx.

Thinker wrote: ↑January 19th, 2019, 7:51 pm Studio C - run by church school, BYU seems to be advertising interracial couples, and more...

That has to be the most pathetic thing I ever....

haven't been following this thread at all
but just saw that studio C was mentioned and
thought I'd add this.

"I’m Not Ashamed of Who I Am": Studio C Member Comes Out as Gay, Shares Touching Message for LGBT Youth

http://www.ldsliving.com/Studio-C-Membe ... th/s/89990


Latter-day Saint Comedian Stacey Harkey of Studio C Comes Out as Gay, Shares Message to LGBTQ Youth

https://www.moronichannel.org/entertain ... btq-youth/


Mormon comedy star Stacey Harkey comes out as gay hoping to stop teen suicide

https://www.gaystarnews.com/article/mor ... s.M7RSofD0

mgridle1 wrote: ↑January 18th, 2019, 6:03 pm

Col. Flagg wrote: ↑January 18th, 2019, 5:25 pm If two people love each other, does anyone really think that God cares what the color of their skin is?

If two people love each other, does anyone really think that God cares what sexual orientation they are?

Ah yes, I am old enough to remember before the "born gay" thing got traction when people said love is blind of gender. Now there is not even defined gender.

To be honest I have known some women, two LDS ones, who never dreamed of, nor identified with, being lesbians who are in lesbian relationships now. Strange, did their DNA change?

Aside from that, have you checked the new "Come Follow Me" handbook? I looked through and saw no white couple with kids portrayed. There is a family with a black man and a white wife with kids, and a lot of non-white families, but no white man and woman with kids, unless you count the picture of Joseph, Mary and newborn Jesus.

The odds are stacked against you in any marriage today.

Don't try to further stack them against you.

At least try to get into a relationship with someone from the same ball park as you.

That may make it a whole lot easier for both of you and the friends and family.
dc

mgridle1 wrote: ↑January 19th, 2019, 8:40 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑January 19th, 2019, 7:51 pm Studio C - run by church school, BYU seems to be advertising interracial couples, and more...

[youtube]...

Oh you mean the black dude who came out as queer hooking up with the white chick???

No wonder this world is screwed up and no wonder women can't find good men . . .

That’s sad news to me.

I AM wrote: ↑January 20th, 2019, 12:15 am https://www.moronichannel.org/entertain ... btq-youth/

Mormon comedy star Stacey Harkey comes out as gay hoping to stop teen suicide

I hadn’t realized Stacey was using his fame to encourage harmful behavior.
That’s so sad and pathetic.
Such manipulative lies.
Pedophilia is a sexual disorder like homosexuality. But if he said the same thing as a pedophile, he wouldn’t be accepted. It is NOT something one is born with. Suggesting we are born to rape or do things that hurt ourselves and others is evil - and an attempt to deceive regarding what the war in heaven and earth are about: free agency.

We are not born to hurt ourselves. We are not born to go against your own anatomy and reproductive system. The anus is not an entrance but an exit only. Anal sex involves risks of anal fissures, anal cancer, colon rupture and bacterial infection. Has he, and others promoting such harmful behavior, considered that maybe as research shows, the homosexual lifestyle is what makes people suicidal? Obviously no - they are too busy playing the victim-mentality card.

Fiannan wrote: ↑January 18th, 2019, 7:51 am https://russia-insider.com/en/politics/ ... b0GGLIk5Xg

Just curious, in regards to marriage, if the Church has changed its stands on this issue or not.

Although not actively taught these days, church leaders have spoken against interracial marriage in the past. But I don't know if these teachings were based in inspiration or in opinion. Regardless, there is another issue that must be addressed. The position discussed in the article indicates it is perfectly acceptable to procreate outside marriage. No faithful church leader could agree with this teaching.