LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **January 11th, 2019, 8:33 am**

I have a vested interest in what life is like beyond the veil as that's where my future lies. I've read the book Life Everlasting by Duane Crowther after my father died which is very insightful I'm wondering what else there is to tell me more?

Posted: **January 11th, 2019, 9:42 am**

I’d start reading the vast NDE literature out there. I saw Heaven was pretty good.

Posted: **January 11th, 2019, 1:07 pm**

Read some Journal of Discourses, institute manuals, etc.

Posted: **January 11th, 2019, 1:36 pm**

Ask God. Everything else is just some other fallible mortal's opinion.

Posted: **January 11th, 2019, 7:34 pm**

Read the book of the Revelation of Christ and you will find a glimpse of what John saw of Heaven and the New Earth. More than that is purely conjecture. God will surprise those that get there as He so chooses.

Posted: **January 11th, 2019, 8:00 pm**

LittleNipper wrote: ↑January 11th, 2019, 7:34 pm Read the book of the Revelation of Christ and you will find a glimpse of what John saw of Heaven and the New Earth. More than that is purely conjecture. God will surprise those that get there as He so chooses.

Actually, LittleNipper, I am surprised that you didn't mention the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke 16. I find that to be quite revealing. Your brush stroke is very broad to make the statement "More than that is purely conjecture." Really?

Posted: **January 11th, 2019, 8:10 pm**

Wherever you go after this life, if you have peace in your heart, you will probably have a beautiful future. If you are tormented in heart and trying to bury and escape from inner pain in this life, it will probably be worse in the next.

Posted: **January 11th, 2019, 10:28 pm**

I believe this is a topic worthy of regular study. I have collect NDE stories for almost 40 years, both public and private. There is a thread of commonality visible in studying them all. I've become only more curious as time has progressed in my studies of this.

Posted: **January 11th, 2019, 11:11 pm**

Chess with my dad....

Posted: **January 12th, 2019, 12:19 am**

Phantom wrote: ↑January 11th, 2019, 10:28 pm I believe this is a topic worthy of regular study. I have collect NDE stories for almost 40 years, both public and private. There is a thread of commonality visible in studying them all. I've become only more curious as time has progressed in my studies of this.

I'm interested in your study of this topic for 40 years, what conclusions or insights have you decided upon, are there any stories you would recommend reading, have you written anything on the matter to share your knowledge

Posted: **January 12th, 2019, 6:35 am**

BruceRGilbert wrote: ↑January 11th, 2019, 8:00 pm
LittleNipper wrote: ↑January 11th, 2019, 7:34 pm Read the book of the Revelation of Christ and you will find a glimpse of what John saw of Heaven and the New Earth. More than that is purely conjecture. God will surprise those that get there as He so chooses.
Actually, LittleNipper, I am surprised that you didn't mention the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke 16. I find that to be quite revealing. Your brush stroke is very broad to make the statement "More than that is purely conjecture." Really?

The story of Lazarus and the "rich man" was/is a pre-resurrection story. Lazarus was freed along with everyone else in Abraham's Bosom when Jesus went to the cross and arose... Then hell was increased to receive more not unlike the "rich man".

Posted: **January 12th, 2019, 9:40 am**

And so, LittleNipper, your ability to recognize and characterize is very astute; however, it does qualify as "our lives after death." There is a time affixed between death and the resurrection - you seem to have skipped over that part.

Posted: **January 12th, 2019, 9:47 am**

Juliet wrote: ↑January 11th, 2019, 8:10 pm Wherever you go after this life, if you have peace in your heart, you will probably have a beautiful future. If you are tormented in heart and trying to bury and escape from inner pain in this life, it will probably be worse in the next.

Not necessarily true. There are plenty of evil people who are at peace in their heart. Think of the scripture about one man thanking God for making him better than other men, and another man beating his breast and asking God to forgive him, a sinner.

The Book of Mormon also says Wo unto him that is at ease (peace in his heart) in Zion.

I get what you are saying, and interpreted in a certain way it probably has some truth to it. But I don't think it is a good litmus test for the reasons I have stated.

Posted: **January 12th, 2019, 11:10 am**

Original_Intent wrote: ↑January 12th, 2019, 9:47 am
Juliet wrote: ↑January 11th, 2019, 8:10 pm Wherever you go after this life, if you have peace in your heart, you will probably have a beautiful future. If you are tormented in heart and trying to bury and escape from inner pain in this life, it will probably be worse in the next.
Not necessarily true. There are plenty of evil people who are at peace in their hearts

Not necessarily true either!
How do we know this to be the case?
Wickedness never was happiness! this is an eternal law and truth, how can these evil people have peace in their hearts? If you are an evil person doing evil deeds there are consequences you forfeit your right to have any kind of peace!

Posted: **January 12th, 2019, 11:36 am**

Original_Intent wrote: ↑January 12th, 2019, 9:47 am
Juliet wrote: ↑January 11th, 2019, 8:10 pm Wherever you go after this life, if you have peace in your heart, you will probably have a beautiful future. If you are tormented in heart and trying to bury and escape from inner pain in this life, it will probably be worse in the next.
Not necessarily true. There are plenty of evil people who are at peace in their heart. Think of the scripture about one man thanking God for making him better than other men, and another man beating his breast and asking God to forgive him, a sinner.

The Book of Mormon also says Wo unto him that is at ease (peace in his heart) in Zion.

I get what you are saying, and interpreted in a certain way it probably has some truth to it. But I don't think it is a good litmus test for the reasons I have stated.

Well, it's a good point. Believing lies will desensitize you to your true spiritual state. And we all get pretty good at lying to ourselves rather than face our buried feelings of discomfort which requires a humble (but not self deprecating---rather it is self respect to be willing to learn) heart.

Posted: **January 12th, 2019, 3:16 pm**

Dusty52 wrote: ↑January 11th, 2019, 8:33 am I have a vested interest in what life is like beyond the veil as that's where my future lies. I've read the book Life Everlasting by Duane Crowther after my father died which is very insightful I'm wondering what else there is to tell me more?

I can highly recommend Return From Tomorrow by George Ritchie.

Posted: **January 12th, 2019, 5:07 pm**

Dusty52 wrote: ↑January 12th, 2019, 12:19 am
Phantom wrote: ↑January 11th, 2019, 10:28 pm I believe this is a topic worthy of regular study. I have collect NDE stories for almost 40 years, both public and private. There is a thread of commonality visible in studying them all. I've become only more curious as time has progressed in my studies of this.
I'm interested in your study of this topic for 40 years, what conclusions or insights have you decided upon, are there any stories you would recommend reading, have you written anything on the matter to share your knowledge

My only conclusion is that death is a kind of new birth and I do not fear it. As for experiences, I've had only one that came as a result of the passing of my mother, the details of which I consider too sacred to share. My only advice is not to limit your exploration of this to just family and church members.

Posted: **January 12th, 2019, 8:46 pm**

BruceRGilbert wrote: ↑January 12th, 2019, 9:40 am And so, LittleNipper, your ability to recognize and characterize is very astute; however, it does qualify as "our lives after death." There is a time affixed between death and the resurrection - you seem to have skipped over that part.

People will exist in spirit form during the interim.

Posted: **January 13th, 2019, 5:29 pm**

Read about the Spirit World in "Teachings of Presidents of the Church" series (some will have a section on it), on lds.org. Who better to hear it from than the prophets?

Posted: **January 13th, 2019, 5:53 pm**

I find some merit with MMP (Multiple Mortal Probations) but I'm not sold on the idea. There will certainly be some means that we can continue to advance and prove ourselves. I do have a witness that every soul will be given every opportunity to prove themselves, every soul will end up at an eternal destination that is both just, but also will be chosen by themselves more than assigned. We will fit in, and things will be according to our own deepest desires. A terrestrial spirit would be unhappy living in a celestial sphere, and a telestial spirit would be more in hell in the celestial realm than they would be in their own kingdom. Like phantom, I feel that death is a kind of birth and not to be feared. I look forward to it - not in a suicidal or even morbid way, but in an excited to see what is next way. Although I am all too aware that I need to make good use of the time I have here.

Posted: **January 14th, 2019, 12:31 pm**

And what better teacher than the Rev Clarence Larkin and his in-depth book entitled

THE SPIRIT WORLD
Clarence Larkin, 1921

From the front cover: This book gives the teaching of the Holy Scriptures as to the "Spirit World." It treats of the "Power of Good and Evil," of the "Underworld," of "Satan," of the "Fallen Angels," of "Demonism," of "Soul Sleep: the "Intermediate State" the "Resurrections" and "Judgments" and of "Heaven" and "Hell." It contains 19 chapters and is illustrated with 27 pictures and 17 charts.

TABLE OF CONTENTS

The Spirit World
The Tri-Unity of God
Satan
The Fallen Angels
Demonism
The Underworld
The Spirits in Prison
Natural Law in the Spirit World
Relation of the "Spirit World" to the "Natural World"
Man's Relation to the Spirit World
Soul Sleep
The Intermediate State
Recognition and Relationship in the Spirit World
The Final State
The Abolition of Death
Spirit Transformation
The Resurrections
The Resurrection Body
The Judgments
SAMPLE CHART
The Spirit World

LIST OF PICTURES
Frontispiece. The Ministry of Angels

Satan's Throne
Satan on His Way to the Earth
Satan in Eden
The Temptation of Christ
Satan Cast Out
The Powers of the Air
The Flood
Jacob's Ladder
Angels Appearing to Abraham
Elijah Fed by an Angel
Christ Casting Out a Demon
The Witch of Endor
Resurrection of Lazarus
Ascension of Christ
Daniel in the Lion's Den
The Star of Bethlehem
Angels Appearing to the Shepherds
The Angel Gabriel Appearing to Mary
Angel Succoring Christ in Gethsemane
Angel Delivering Peter from Prison
Stoning of Stephen
The Soul's Guardian at Death
Heaven
Translation of Elijah
Christ's First Appearance to the Disciples
The Two Disciples at Emmaus
The Transfiguration
Christ Walking on the Sea
LIST OF CHARTS

Ezekiel's Cherubim
John's Living Creatures
Satan
The Heavens
The Two Comings
Bodies Celestial and Terrestrial
The Tabernacle
The Threefold Nature of Man
The Underworld
The Three States of Man
The Church
The Resurrections
The Judgments
The Two Judgments of the Believer
Judgment of Reward
Dispensation of Judgment
BOOK SPECIFICATIONS

158 pages, hardback, charts, illustrations.

Posted: **January 14th, 2019, 4:25 pm**

LN, you might consider expanding out of your Groupthink library and exploring NDE's from a more universal perspective. The NDE research indicates that the vast majority of them confirm that person's bias/expectations. Indian/Hindu NDE's involve characters like Vishnu or Krishna - which God/Christ/Spirit might be speaking to other cultures in their own religious language. From what I've been able to gather, Evangelical & Fundamentalist Bible Christians do not consider the possibility that God/Christ/Spirit would communicate with other cultures using different metaphors/symbols or names than what is in the Bible. But the evidence, when considered in a more fair-minded & unbiased way, is pretty overwhelming.

http://www.horizonresearch.org/near-dea ... periences/

Incidentally, LDS/Mormons have a large corpus of NDE's that support or validate LDS/Mormon views on the afterlife & the nature of God, including the Spirit World, the apparent requirement of our ordinances (for the dead) in order to progress, Heavenly Father & Mother, separate Jesus, Angels, the status of our Prophets like Joseph Smith after death. In other words, LDS/Mormons who have NDE's tend to experience what they expect/believe.

So what does that all say? Perhaps open your mind & consider there might be some truths outside your paradigm.

Posted: **January 14th, 2019, 5:30 pm**

Will we get the chance to meet the great and the good?

Posted: **January 14th, 2019, 5:31 pm**

Dusty52 wrote: ↑January 14th, 2019, 5:30 pm Will we get the chance to meet the great and the good?

You can do that today.

Just look in the mirror.

-Finrock

Posted: **January 14th, 2019, 5:33 pm**

I wouldn't class myself as great and I'm only trying to be good!

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