LDS Freedom Forum

My bishop, who is also a good friend of mine, told me today when I stopped by his work that his house is under contract and they are looking at houses outside of the ward boundaries. He's been bishop for over four years, so I suppose it was fair timing anyway. That being said, I'm really gonna miss the guy - both as bishop and as a friend (although I'll still be stopping by his work, since we're in the same building).

But all of a sudden my mind is swirling. There are at least half a dozen amazing candidates for bishop in our ward, if not a full dozen. In the past, all our bishops have been:

* Older than 45.
* Served as YM President.
* Have incredibly stable jobs.
* Family that is well represented in most organizations.
* Fully supportive and active wives.

I'm curious if that's the pattern in most US wards, or whether there are different qualifications in different areas. I know whom the Lord calls, He qualifies, and I know inspiration is perhaps the key point of the calling. Just also curious if there is a perceptible pattern to the calling.

FWIW I fail on at least three of those criteria, so WHEW! Bullet dodged

My son has recently been released as Bishop. He was very young when called, and served for over ten years.

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑January 8th, 2019, 6:39 pm.Just also curious if there is a perceptible pattern to the calling.

That's how it's been with all the Bishops I've had. Of course, we've only had three counting the one we have now.

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑January 8th, 2019, 6:39 pm

FWIW I fail on at least three of those criteria, so WHEW! Bullet dodged

The criteria you mention is made-up. No "WHEW" for you

shadow wrote: ↑January 8th, 2019, 7:50 pm

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑January 8th, 2019, 6:39 pm

FWIW I fail on at least three of those criteria, so WHEW! Bullet dodged

The criteria you mention is made-up. No "WHEW" for you

Thanks, you are very reassuring.

The last two Bishops met that criteria you listed, except for the YM leader point. The Bishop before the last two also checked that box however.

I just realized you said they had "wives" also. None of them have been polygamists here. I guess things are pretty different where you live, than here in Texas. I thought they banned that a while ago?

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑January 8th, 2019, 6:39 pm
* Older than 45.
* Served as YM President.
* Have incredibly stable jobs.
* Family that is well represented in most organizations.
* Fully supportive and active wives.

3 of my last four:

No
No
Yes
No
Yes

The other one

Yes
No
No
No
Yes

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑January 8th, 2019, 6:39 pm My bishop, who is also a good friend of mine, told me today when I stopped by his work that his house is under contract and they are looking at houses outside of the ward boundaries. He's been bishop for over four years, so I suppose it was fair timing anyway. That being said, I'm really gonna miss the guy - both as bishop and as a friend (although I'll still be stopping by his work, since we're in the same building).

But all of a sudden my mind is swirling. There are at least half a dozen amazing candidates for bishop in our ward, if not a full dozen. In the past, all our bishops have been:

* Older than 45.
* Served as YM President.
* Have incredibly stable jobs.
* Family that is well represented in most organizations.
* Fully supportive and active wives.

I'm curious if that's the pattern in most US wards, or whether there are different qualifications in different areas. I know whom the Lord calls, He qualifies, and I know inspiration is perhaps the key point of the calling. Just also curious if there is a perceptible pattern to the calling.

FWIW I fail on at least three of those criteria, so WHEW! Bullet dodged

My bishop is younger than 40.
I wish they would call bishops who were older as its hard on the family with little kids.

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑January 8th, 2019, 6:39 pm My bishop, who is also a good friend of mine, told me today when I stopped by his work that his house is under contract and they are looking at houses outside of the ward boundaries. He's been bishop for over four years, so I suppose it was fair timing anyway. That being said, I'm really gonna miss the guy - both as bishop and as a friend (although I'll still be stopping by his work, since we're in the same building).

But all of a sudden my mind is swirling. There are at least half a dozen amazing candidates for bishop in our ward, if not a full dozen. In the past, all our bishops have been:

* Older than 45.
* Served as YM President.
* Have incredibly stable jobs.
* Family that is well represented in most organizations.
* Fully supportive and active wives.

I'm curious if that's the pattern in most US wards, or whether there are different qualifications in different areas. I know whom the Lord calls, He qualifies, and I know inspiration is perhaps the key point of the calling. Just also curious if there is a perceptible pattern to the calling.

FWIW I fail on at least three of those criteria, so WHEW! Bullet dodged

I have seen several bishops under 45, many of whom presided over wards I was in. This includes my current bishop.
I have observed that every person I have seen called as bishop had served as an Elders Quorum president and most had served on high councils. I haven't observed the correlation with YM presidencies you mentioned.
Stable jobs, yes.
Active, supportive wives, absolutely.

I don't know what you mean by family well represented in most organizations. I can't recall a single bishop who had parents, siblings, or extended family in the ward so he and his wife could only be in two organizations. Often at least one has a stake calling, leaving representation in only one organization.

It seems important for me to have younger bishops and to be surrounded by people who have achieved both better families and more worldly success than me. Like most men I know, I judge myself by accomplishments. Being 50 and never having a calling that resulted in ordination as a high priest makes every change in bishopric difficult. And the second Sunday before Christmas I saw both counselors in my bishopric replaced. Seeing myself in an insignificant, out of the way calling where my primary job is to babysit a baptismal font for two hours once every few months. Noting how much significance single women place on a potential suitor's calling, I find myself struggling even more with feelings of insignificance. So I assume that I have bishops as young as the early 30s to teach me not to judge myself by how useful or worthwhile I am in my ward, a lesson I guess I haven't accepted.

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑January 8th, 2019, 6:39 pm * Older than 45.

The latest three bishops in my ward have been late 20s or early 30s.

I think people put way too much stock into callings in this church. It bothers a bit, when people/leaders talk about how great the leader immediately above them is, how much they care about us all etc. It shouldn't need to be stated, everyone just go about the job. We'll understand their love and concern through their actions.
Matt. 22:11-12 comes to mind

But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Skills and talents with administering the program to a large number of people are valuable in a religious organization. A manger personality, that follows orders, stays pretty emotionally stable, and maintains the status quo is what you want. It's not bad. But it's not the only way to be either. It doesn't mean Bishops are even better, although most are really good people. But we don't need to emulate the Bishop or strive to have the personality of Bishop if it causes us identity anguish. We should be good, righteous, faithful, etc. But we can still be us. We may not be picked for Bishop but that's ok. We all get what the Lord has in the end. Plus there are a lot of people that need to have connection and not all personality types connect with that person. We should let our light shine, be our best selves, and be glad we don't have to be in Bishopric meeting at 7am on Sunday.

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑January 8th, 2019, 6:39 pm My bishop, who is also a good friend of mine, told me today when I stopped by his work that his house is under contract and they are looking at houses outside of the ward boundaries. He's been bishop for over four years, so I suppose it was fair timing anyway. That being said, I'm really gonna miss the guy - both as bishop and as a friend (although I'll still be stopping by his work, since we're in the same building).

But all of a sudden my mind is swirling. There are at least half a dozen amazing candidates for bishop in our ward, if not a full dozen. In the past, all our bishops have been:

* Older than 45.
* Served as YM President.
* Have incredibly stable jobs.
* Family that is well represented in most organizations.
* Fully supportive and active wives.

I'm curious if that's the pattern in most US wards, or whether there are different qualifications in different areas. I know whom the Lord calls, He qualifies, and I know inspiration is perhaps the key point of the calling. Just also curious if there is a perceptible pattern to the calling.

FWIW I fail on at least three of those criteria, so WHEW! Bullet dodged

When I was called to serve as the bishop, the Stake President said to me, "there are many men who could serve as a bishop, but they married the wrong woman".
During my time a the bishop in our ward I discovered how true this is. The wife has to have a very thick skin because she will hear comments about her husband that she won't like but will remain silent. She won't get involved in controversy, she won't argue with anyone even if they deserve to be challenged, and she will be discreet because she will unwittingly overhear things of a delicate or confidential nature.

So, if you want to narrow your list down a little, take a look at the wives.

There is a computer programs that stake presidents have that has questions about qualifications of serving as a bishop. I don't know all of these questions but they include issues of stability of employment, prior church discipline, having served as a prior bishop, and previous divorced. However, a wrong answer on any of those does disqualify the candidate, just requires an explanation.

I got married at 31. 4 months later I was in the bishopric and 2 years later I was the bishop. When I moved the next bishop had been divorced. The others i suggested had a job that required some shirts on Sundays and the other had a wife with health challenges. But the SP picks a bishop out the men in the ward. Some wards have a lot of options and some have very few.

Robin Hood wrote: ↑January 9th, 2019, 3:11 am

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑January 8th, 2019, 6:39 pm My bishop, who is also a good friend of mine, told me today when I stopped by his work that his house is under contract and they are looking at houses outside of the ward boundaries. He's been bishop for over four years, so I suppose it was fair timing anyway. That being said, I'm really gonna miss the guy - both as bishop and as a friend (although I'll still be stopping by his work, since we're in the same building).

But all of a sudden my mind is swirling. There are at least half a dozen amazing candidates for bishop in our ward, if not a full dozen. In the past, all our bishops have been:

* Older than 45.
* Served as YM President.
* Have incredibly stable jobs.
* Family that is well represented in most organizations.
* Fully supportive and active wives.

I'm curious if that's the pattern in most US wards, or whether there are different qualifications in different areas. I know whom the Lord calls, He qualifies, and I know inspiration is perhaps the key point of the calling. Just also curious if there is a perceptible pattern to the calling.

FWIW I fail on at least three of those criteria, so WHEW! Bullet dodged

When I was called to serve as the bishop, the Stake President said to me, "there are many men who could serve as a bishop, but they married the wrong woman".
During my time a the bishop in our ward I discovered how true this is. The wife has to have a very thick skin because she will hear comments about her husband that she won't like but will remain silent. She won't get involved in controversy, she won't argue with anyone even if they deserve to be challenged, and she will be discreet because she will unwittingly overhear things of a delicate or confidential nature.

So, if you want to narrow your list down a little, take a look at the wives.

I've considered the wife factor before. That's why I listed it as the fifth criteria. They've gotta be warriors and yet possess the wisdom to know when to keep their peace. That's a hard task even for the best people. That being said, they also have to be ok with taking a slightly less time consuming calling while their husband serves as bishop. And the support factor - oh man does that have to be strong. The challenges I see bishops facing not only now but in the coming years.... you have to know from whence the call originates.

As per "well represented in most organizations", what I meant by that is they usually seem to have kids dispersed throughout the YM/YW program and down into Primary. That gives them at least some experience with the auxiliaries but also some relateability with other families.

Oh, and as per the Divorce item..... close friend of mine recently told me that the position of the church at HQ was that a man can have a divorce on his record, but they prefer it to be older than 10 years previous. I'm guessing that probably makes it easier for issues like child support and such from the temple recommend interview.

I know there are many current and former bishops on this forum. Were you terrified when the call was extended?

Lexew1899 wrote: ↑January 8th, 2019, 8:24 pm The last two Bishops met that criteria you listed, except for the YM leader point. The Bishop before the last two also checked that box however.

My guess there is that they prefer someone who works well with the young men of the ward, especially since that's where they spend a good amount of time (Priests Quorum, etc). Get them on missions! Keep them out of Babylon! That's probably easier if you have a track record of doing just that. Our last two bishops served as YM Presidents. I have to imagine that wasn't a coincidence, but maybe it is.

Robin Hood wrote: ↑January 9th, 2019, 3:11 am

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑January 8th, 2019, 6:39 pm My bishop, who is also a good friend of mine, told me today when I stopped by his work that his house is under contract and they are looking at houses outside of the ward boundaries. He's been bishop for over four years, so I suppose it was fair timing anyway. That being said, I'm really gonna miss the guy - both as bishop and as a friend (although I'll still be stopping by his work, since we're in the same building).

But all of a sudden my mind is swirling. There are at least half a dozen amazing candidates for bishop in our ward, if not a full dozen. In the past, all our bishops have been:

* Older than 45.
* Served as YM President.
* Have incredibly stable jobs.
* Family that is well represented in most organizations.
* Fully supportive and active wives.

I'm curious if that's the pattern in most US wards, or whether there are different qualifications in different areas. I know whom the Lord calls, He qualifies, and I know inspiration is perhaps the key point of the calling. Just also curious if there is a perceptible pattern to the calling.

FWIW I fail on at least three of those criteria, so WHEW! Bullet dodged

When I was called to serve as the bishop, the Stake President said to me, "there are many men who could serve as a bishop, but they married the wrong woman".
During my time a the bishop in our ward I discovered how true this is. The wife has to have a very thick skin because she will hear comments about her husband that she won't like but will remain silent. She won't get involved in controversy, she won't argue with anyone even if they deserve to be challenged, and she will be discreet because she will unwittingly overhear things of a delicate or confidential nature.

So, if you want to narrow your list down a little, take a look at the wives.

My mother in law tells dh that he will be bishop, like his father and grandfather were. It's in the blood. I laugh and say not while married to me. I am not cut out for the bishop's wife. I cannot stand by and listen to people talk bad about my family. I will be the reason that he isn't called and I am okay with that.
I have never understood why people want to be bishop. Or want it for their family.

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑January 9th, 2019, 7:41 am
Were you terrified when the call was extended?

I knew it was coming, but it was still very scary. I remember arriving home after being ordained and set apart. I sat in my armchair and was suddenly filled with what I can only describe as dread. I then felt a burden descend upon my shoulders... a real one. It felt physically heavy. I know it sounds weird, but I could actually feel the weight.

That feeling of dread never left me for the whole 7 1/2 years I served. I woke up every Sunday morning, and many others, with a knot in my stomach.
When I was released it felt like a bereavement at first, but after a couple of weeks that weight had gone and life seemed brighter.

Robin Hood wrote: ↑January 9th, 2019, 8:49 am

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑January 9th, 2019, 7:41 am
Were you terrified when the call was extended?

I knew it was coming, but it was still very scary. I remember arriving home after being ordained and set apart. I sat in my armchair and was suddenly filled with what I can only describe as dread. I then felt a burden descend upon my shoulders... a real one. It felt physically heavy. I know it sounds weird, but I could actually feel the weight.

That feeling of dread never left me for the whole 7 1/2 years I served. I woke up every Sunday morning, and many others, with a knot in my stomach.
When I was released it felt like a bereavement at first, but after a couple of weeks that weight had gone and life seemed brighter.

How did you know it was coming?

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑January 8th, 2019, 6:39 pm * Older than 45.
* Served as YM President.
* Have incredibly stable jobs.
* Family that is well represented in most organizations.
* Fully supportive and active wives.

I'm curious if that's the pattern in most US wards, or whether there are different qualifications in different areas. I know whom the Lord calls, He qualifies, and I know inspiration is perhaps the key point of the calling. Just also curious if there is a perceptible pattern to the calling.

My bishop is also my friend.

He just turned 70.
Is a convert to the church.
Has a very unstable job.
All of his family is inactive except his son.
He wife is very supportive.

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑January 8th, 2019, 6:39 pm My bishop, who is also a good friend of mine, told me today when I stopped by his work that his house is under contract and they are looking at houses outside of the ward boundaries. He's been bishop for over four years, so I suppose it was fair timing anyway. That being said, I'm really gonna miss the guy - both as bishop and as a friend (although I'll still be stopping by his work, since we're in the same building).

But all of a sudden my mind is swirling. There are at least half a dozen amazing candidates for bishop in our ward, if not a full dozen. In the past, all our bishops have been:

* Older than 45.
* Served as YM President.
* Have incredibly stable jobs.
* Family that is well represented in most organizations.
* Fully supportive and active wives.

I'm curious if that's the pattern in most US wards, or whether there are different qualifications in different areas. I know whom the Lord calls, He qualifies, and I know inspiration is perhaps the key point of the calling. Just also curious if there is a perceptible pattern to the calling.

FWIW I fail on at least three of those criteria, so WHEW! Bullet dodged

Since change is in the air....What will you think when your wife becomes bishop!!!

Our past several bishops (the last four, for sure) were all under 40 when called as bishop. And this is no exaggeration - they all went into the calling with nice hair and looking their ages - they all came out with gray hair and looking much older than the ages they were when released. I wouldn't wish it upon anyone.

I don't believe any of them served as YM president before being called as bishop - in fact, just the reverse seems to be the norm in our area. The last two bishops we've had were called as YM president AFTER being released as bishop! Which seems strange to me - poor guys, having had that crazy calling for 5 years, then being put smack into another difficult, time-consuming calling. But yeah, around here, it's just the reverse than you describe (but we do most things differently, it seems, so...).

As for stable jobs - yeah, that does seem to be the norm for us. All our bishops have had decent jobs that put them in the middle to upper-middle class of our society.

Family - that is accurate for ours, as well, with kids in Primary mostly though (as the bishops are so young). A couple have had really young teens when called, so they'd be in YM/YW.

Same with fully supportive and active wives. Although, with several of the counselors in our various recent bishoprics, that has been and is not the case at all. A couple of the counselors have been divorced, and one currently is married to a non-member woman who does not attend our church at all - and the other counselor has a 100% inactive wife, which is sad, because she used to come every Sunday (hopefully, she'll come back one day).

I agree with some other posters here who have mentioned how hard it is on younger men (and their wives) who have babies and toddlers at home to be bishops. I am good friends with the wives of a few of our previous bishops, and it was legit as hard on them as it was on their husbands, if not more so in some areas. They really did feel like single mothers for 5 solid years - and sitting on the pew with multiple tiny kids Sunday after Sunday was especially lonely for them, it seemed. I would try to sit by them sometimes to help with the babies, but that wasn't really what they were wanting/needing - they missed their husbands. But they were all good women and did fine and now are greatly relieved to have their husbands back! I agree though, that an older man, with older kids/young adult kids would have vastly more life experience and wisdom than some of these 30 year old bishops (no offense to 30 year old bishops). When I was a kid and young person growing up in the Church, ALL our bishops back then (in the 70's and 80's) were at least over 50 when called - every single one of them - no kids at home, empty-nesters. Interesting how that criteria seems to have changed in our day (for the most part), for whatever reason. Also, our current stake president isn't even 40 yet, and he and his wife have 4 very young children at home. Our two previous stake president's were in their late 30's-early 40's when called, as well. And they're in for 10 years, basically missing their children's entire childhood.

It's always funny in our ward, and it happens EVERY time without fail. When the current bishop's 5 years is almost up, there is always a small cadre of men who attempt to 'run' for bishop. It's a legit thing, lots of people have noticed and commented on it, so it's not just my imagination. A few months before the current bishop's 'time' is up, these same men will shave off their beards and/or mustaches, they will all of a sudden volunteer for EVERYTHING, start wearing white shirts and ties every Sunday, bear their testimony every month, etc. etc. If it wasn't so sad and pathetic (lobbying to be put in as bishop), it would be hilarious. Of course, none of these men (and it's the same 2-3, every time) have ever even been called into a bishopric, let alone called as bishop, so they might want to change their tack.

EmmaLee wrote: ↑January 9th, 2019, 10:09 am
It's always funny in our ward, and it happens EVERY time without fail. When the current bishop's 5 years is almost up, there is always a small cadre of men who attempt to 'run' for bishop. It's a legit thing, lots of people have noticed and commented on it, so it's not just my imagination. A few months before the current bishop's 'time' is up, these same men will shave off their beards and/or mustaches, they will all of a sudden volunteer for EVERYTHING, start wearing white shirts and ties every Sunday, bear their testimony every month, etc. etc. If it wasn't so sad and pathetic (lobbying to be put in as bishop), it would be hilarious. Of course, none of these men (and it's the same 2-3, every time) have ever even been called into a bishopric, let alone called as bishop, so they might want to change their tack.

I don't think the lobbyist activity is limited to guys wanting to be Bishop. We recently had a switch up in the YW presidency and you'd be amazed how many women were "disappointed" they didn't get called as counselors. The wife and I had a conversation about it: is it bad because they just want the calling for the calling sake? Or would it be a different matter if they wanted the calling in order to help and serve the girls in the organization? Usually the people in the latter description are not at all concerned about taking credit for things; they just want to make a difference.

I've had to do some soul searching on this myself. Do I do things so I can be seen of men or do I do them because I love seeing others come unto Christ? The wake up call for me was in D&C 4. Verse 3 says if you have desires to serve, you are called to the work. But verse 5 says that faith, hope, charity, and love with an eye single to the glory of God qualifies you for the work. Focusing on God's glory, not yours, is one of the major qualifiers. Not shaving your beard and bearing your testimony every month.

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑January 9th, 2019, 10:50 am

EmmaLee wrote: ↑January 9th, 2019, 10:09 am
It's always funny in our ward, and it happens EVERY time without fail. When the current bishop's 5 years is almost up, there is always a small cadre of men who attempt to 'run' for bishop. It's a legit thing, lots of people have noticed and commented on it, so it's not just my imagination. A few months before the current bishop's 'time' is up, these same men will shave off their beards and/or mustaches, they will all of a sudden volunteer for EVERYTHING, start wearing white shirts and ties every Sunday, bear their testimony every month, etc. etc. If it wasn't so sad and pathetic (lobbying to be put in as bishop), it would be hilarious. Of course, none of these men (and it's the same 2-3, every time) have ever even been called into a bishopric, let alone called as bishop, so they might want to change their tack.

I don't think the lobbyist activity is limited to guys wanting to be Bishop. We recently had a switch up in the YW presidency and you'd be amazed how many women were "disappointed" they didn't get called as counselors. The wife and I had a conversation about it: is it bad because they just want the calling for the calling sake? Or would it be a different matter if they wanted the calling in order to help and serve the girls in the organization? Usually the people in the latter description are not at all concerned about taking credit for things; they just want to make a difference.

I've had to do some soul searching on this myself. Do I do things so I can be seen of men or do I do them because I love seeing others come unto Christ? The wake up call for me was in D&C 4. Verse 3 says if you have desires to serve, you are called to the work. But verse 5 says that faith, hope, charity, and love with an eye single to the glory of God qualifies you for the work. Focusing on God's glory, not yours, is one of the major qualifiers. Not shaving your beard and bearing your testimony every month.

Yes, I've seen other people lobby for callings, too, but since this thread is specifically about bishops, I only mentioned the men I know who seek after that calling. If we, as members, believe these callings come from God, then yes, IMO, it is not right or appropriate to seek after them and no truly righteous person who has their heart in the right place would do so. They would know that if God wants them in whatever calling, he will put them there. He knows what is best for his children. It's not like running for gov't office (hopefully). They would also know that we can do much good in serving others regardless of what calling we may or may not hold - although some things are more specific (like if you had a strong desire to serve the YW, a calling in the YW organization would make sense - but there ARE other ways a sister could serve them, even without the official calling).

I agree wholeheartedly with your last couple of sentences. I think it's also strongly related to Matthew 6, which seems to be ignored by many today, unfortunately.