Drag Queen Story Hour

[EmmaLee]

Our local library has more reading (and other) volunteers than they can handle - there is literally a waiting list. None of them that I've seen have horns though, nor do they seem obsessed with their sexuality in front of 3 year olds.

So you live in a protected area???

I don't understand the question. What is a "protected area" in your view?

You can see plenty of nature. No strange people are around. Enjoying the good life.

Bizarre.

[Finrock]

I read it and I would agree, "gay agenda" (the promotion of homosexuality) is a what, not a who. I couldn't find the generalization you are attempting to criticize.

but remarkably there are still some apparently adult LDS people who still think there is no gay agenda (we know this because they have posted here many times saying that very thing. They seem to think that just because their gay relative doesn't dress up with horns and makeup (that they know of anyway...), that that somehow means there is no gay agenda - truly astonishing). There IS a gay agenda, and this (below) is just a small sampling of it -

I don't think there is a denial, at least on this board, of there being a gay agenda. Its just that many people, including myself, are not comfortable generalizing a whole population and treating a whole population as one, as opposed to as individuals. *Therefore, some gay people have an agenda, some gay people don't. That is the message.

EDIT AGAIN: The issue here is that if we don't recognize that we are dealing with individual humans, not some nameless, abstract "gay agenda" persons, with the implication being that ALL gay people subscribe to these quotes and ideas being quoted and expressed here and elsewhere, then we are in danger of dehumanizing people. Its easier to be antagonistic against individuals when you've pigeonholed them to a set of particular traits or ideals.

-Finrock

NOTE THE EDIT *

Abstractions are useful, even essential, constructs that we may have discussions about ideas and movements without an impenetrable wall of text that dives into too many details. Thus, you shouldn't generalize so about generalizations

Sure, but these threads don't exist in a vacuum. There is also an anti-gay "agenda". Point being, many LDS know there are combative, agenda driven gay people and/or supporters. We should address those things as appropriate. But, as evidenced by the threads that have come and gone, quite often all gay people get sucked up in to these hasty generalizations, which leads, in a very real and practical way, to treating another human being as less than human, which is in evidence in many of the "anti-gay" threads that float around here. So, it is inaccurate to say that people here on this forum have denied that there is a gay agenda, as was postulated by Emmalee. This is a mischaracterization of the posters here. The sentiment is more in line with what I have clarified.

-Finrock

[Finrock]

So, when you said there is a gay agenda you were just talking about a minority of gay people or were you applying it to gays in general?

-Finrock

I, nor you, have any idea if it's a minority or a majority of gay people who have an agenda (or who follow the publicly expressed agenda, such as in the article I posted above). I know some gay people who do not seem to follow said agenda, I know others who do. The self-described gay people who are vocal about this agenda of "indoctrinating children" and "grooming the next generation" (all their words, not mine) speak for themselves, and they are not few in number.

I'm against any form of coercion, manipulation, or attempts to militantly or forcefully change people's minds. I'm against any kind of effort that would dehumanize or make a caricature of a person or a community. This type of activity happens in both camps, both pro-gay and anti-gay. Being on one side or the other doesn't justify unjust actions. Just because I'm against homosexual conduct and I'm against homosexual marriage, doesn't mean that I am going to try to justify things/ideas that I wouldn't like being applied on me or utilized on me. So, I'm against the so called militant/manipulative/coercive gay agenda and I'm against the militant/manipulative/coercive anti-gay agenda.

I'm attempting to provide a perspective that isn't at either end of the spectrum.

-Finrock

[Finrock]

I read it and I would agree, "gay agenda" (the promotion of homosexuality) is a what, not a who. I couldn't find the generalization you are attempting to criticize.

but remarkably there are still some apparently adult LDS people who still think there is no gay agenda (we know this because they have posted here many times saying that very thing. They seem to think that just because their gay relative doesn't dress up with horns and makeup (that they know of anyway...), that that somehow means there is no gay agenda - truly astonishing). There IS a gay agenda, and this (below) is just a small sampling of it -

I don't think there is a denial, at least on this board, of there being a gay agenda. Its just that many people, including myself, are not comfortable generalizing a whole population and treating a whole population as one, as opposed to as individuals. *Therefore, some gay people have an agenda, some gay people don't. That is the message.

EDIT AGAIN: The issue here is that if we don't recognize that we are dealing with individual humans, not some nameless, abstract "gay agenda" persons, with the implication being that ALL gay people subscribe to these quotes and ideas being quoted and expressed here and elsewhere, then we are in danger of dehumanizing people. Its easier to be antagonistic against individuals when you've pigeonholed them to a set of particular traits or ideals.

-Finrock

NOTE THE EDIT *

Abstractions are useful, even essential, constructs that we may have discussions about ideas and movements without an impenetrable wall of text that dives into too many details. Thus, you shouldn't generalize so about generalizations

And, for the record, Backblast, I'm a hypocrite. Expect more inconsistencies in my actions. Its a marathon, not a sprint. But, regardless, me being a hypocrite doesn't invalidate my point.

-Finrock

[EmmaLee]

I read it and I would agree, "gay agenda" (the promotion of homosexuality) is a what, not a who. I couldn't find the generalization you are attempting to criticize.

but remarkably there are still some apparently adult LDS people who still think there is no gay agenda (we know this because they have posted here many times saying that very thing. They seem to think that just because their gay relative doesn't dress up with horns and makeup (that they know of anyway...), that that somehow means there is no gay agenda - truly astonishing). There IS a gay agenda, and this (below) is just a small sampling of it -

I don't think there is a denial, at least on this board, of there being a gay agenda. Its just that many people, including myself, are not comfortable generalizing a whole population and treating a whole population as one, as opposed to as individuals. *Therefore, some gay people have an agenda, some gay people don't. That is the message.

EDIT AGAIN: The issue here is that if we don't recognize that we are dealing with individual humans, not some nameless, abstract "gay agenda" persons, with the implication being that ALL gay people subscribe to these quotes and ideas being quoted and expressed here and elsewhere, then we are in danger of dehumanizing people. Its easier to be antagonistic against individuals when you've pigeonholed them to a set of particular traits or ideals.

-Finrock

NOTE THE EDIT *

Abstractions are useful, even essential, constructs that we may have discussions about ideas and movements without an impenetrable wall of text that dives into too many details. Thus, you shouldn't generalize so about generalizations

So, it is inaccurate to say that people here on this forum have denied that there is a gay agenda, as was postulated by Emmalee. This is a mischaracterization of the posters here.
-Finrock

There you go again, making generalizations yourself, while accusing others of making generalizations. It is not inaccurate to say that people here on this forum have denied that there is a gay agenda. There ARE members of LDSFF that have posted these words - "There is no gay agenda", and have argued the point. You can believe it or not, and I'm certainly not going to spend hours looking for those posts, but they are there. So, it is inaccurate to say that people here on this forum have NOT denied that there is a gay agenda, as postulated by you - as some people have done that very thing. I have absolutely not mischaracterized the posters who have stated they do not believe there is a gay agenda, and I do not appreciate you continually mischaracterizing me.

[Finrock]

There ARE members of LDSFF that have posted these words - "There is no gay agenda", and have argued the point. You can believe it or not, and I'm certainly not going to spend hours looking for those posts, but they are there.

Hmm. You are holding me to a stricture standard than you are willing to adhere to. You're making an accusation or a claim, yet, unwilling to substantiate it. Then you make a counter claim based on an assertion you've made that you are unwilling to support. OK, fine. Just realize this means that you haven't justified your criticism of my point much less proven that you are the victim.

In any case...

-Finrock

[EmmaLee]

There ARE members of LDSFF that have posted these words - "There is no gay agenda", and have argued the point. You can believe it or not, and I'm certainly not going to spend hours looking for those posts, but they are there.

Hmm. You are holding me to a stricture standard than you are willing to adhere to. You're making an accusation or a claim, yet, unwilling to substantiate it. Then you make a counter claim based on an assertion you've made that you are unwilling to support. OK, fine. Just realize this means that you haven't justified your criticism of my point much less proven that you are the victim.

In any case...

-Finrock

Seriously, Finrock; go have a nice weekend with the wife and kids.

[Fiannan]

Would Mary and Joseph had taken toddler Jesus to "drag queen story hour?"

[EmmaLee]

https://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/ ... &vcid=8556

Tuesday, 04 December 2018
Father Fighting to Save Six-year-old Son From “Gender Reassignment”
Written by Dave Bohon

A Texas father is in danger of losing parental rights to his six-year-old son because of his refusal to agree with his ex-wife that the boy is transgender. Anne Georgulas, the mother of six-year-old James, is a Dallas-area pediatrician, and claims in a petition seeking to terminate the parental rights of her estranged husband Jeffrey Younger that their son is a “transgender child and, by choice, now goes by the name Luna and is only known by her classmates as a girl.”

The petition seeks to terminate Younger’s parental rights because James reportedly behaves in line with his male gender when he is with Younger. Additionally, Georgulas is asking the court to compel Younger to pay for counseling during which a therapist affirms that James is a girl, and to foot the bill for hormone treatments as part of James’ biological “transition” to the female gender.

On the website SaveJames.com, launched to help stop the “transition” and to assist Younger in protecting his son, James is described as “a normal, happy, healthy little boy — who deserves a chance to be just that.”

The site relates that James has a twin brother, Jude, and that Jeff Younger “is currently in a very tenuous custody battle as he and his ex-wife each fight for full custody. When the boys were 3 years old, Jeff’s ex-wife decided that James should not be a boy. She began dressing him as a girl, calling him by the name ‘Luna’ and enrolled him in ‘social transitioning’ therapy to prepare him for chemical castration. This process can begin at age 8. She has enrolled him in Coppell Schools as a girl. He is currently in 1st grade. The teachers and administrators know that he is a boy, but the other parents and students are unaware.”

According to the site, “Courts have enjoined Jeff from dressing James as a boy at school, from teaching him that he is a boy, and from sharing religious teachings on sexuality and gender. He has been accused of abuse for saying that his son is a boy.”

In his own court filings Younger stated: “Few things are more important to people than the care and rearing of their young. The courts are entertaining government suppression of some of the most fundamental practices and traditions of American families.”

Writing at TheFederalist.com, former transgender individual Walter Heyer, who ultimately rejected his female alter-persona, noted that, contrary to Georgulas’ insistence, the father of James “isn’t seeing signs of gender dysphoria. In the father’s home James appears to be a normal boy and doesn’t identify as a girl. He has a choice of boy’s or girl’s clothes there, and he chooses to dress as a boy. The fact that James changes gender identity depending on which parent is present makes the diagnosis of gender dysphoria both dubious and harmful.”

Heyer, who has worked with Younger in his efforts to defend his child, added that when James is away from his mother, “he consistently rejects the idea that he is ‘Luna girl’ or that he wants to be a girl. Because the court prohibits dad from dressing James as a boy or from teaching him that he is a boy by sharing religious or science-based teachings on sexuality, dad presents James with male and female clothing options and James always chooses, even insists on, his boy clothes.”

Heyer warned that time is of the essence to save James from being forced into a false gender role. “The diagnosis is critical because labeling a child with gender dysphoria can trigger a series of physical and mental consequences for the child and has legal ramifications in the ongoing custody case,” Heyer wrote. “Get it wrong and young James’ life is irrevocably harmed.”

[Lizzy60]

^^^^^Back in the 80's, there was a set of twins in my son's kindergarten class. Talking to their mother one day, she said that the boy twin was the artistic one, and the girl twin was athletic. At the time I just thought it odd that she would have her children labeled at such a young age, but now I'm thinking that given the "wrong" parent, these children might have been forced to switch genders, so the athletic girl could be a boy, and the artistic boy could be the girl. Seriously, who does this to children? And the father is portrayed as being the one in the wrong. So upside-down.

It should be child abuse to give hormone-blockers to otherwise normal healthy children. If the whole gay/gender issue wasn't such a political minefield, we wouldn't have this stupidity. We have lost our minds, even us LDS.

[Thinker]

For most here, this information is old news and they are probably saying, "well, duh" - but remarkably there are still some apparently adult LDS people who still think there is no gay agenda (we know this because they have posted here many times saying that very thing. They seem to think that just because their gay relative doesn't dress up with horns and makeup (that they know of anyway...), that that somehow means there is no gay agenda - truly astonishing). There IS a gay agenda, and this (below) is just a small sampling of it -

Drag queen story hours for children designed to ‘groom the next generation,’ one drag queen admits

Dylan Pontiff — who helped organize a story hour for kids as young as age 3 at a Louisiana public library originally scheduled in October — is shown in a video telling the Lafayette City-Parish Council at a Sept. 17 meeting what’s behind the “very beautiful” event.

“This is gonna be the grooming of the next generation,” Pontiff said. “We are trying to groom the next generation” to be accepting of LGBT values. Pontiff was dressed in street clothes for the meeting but goes by Santana Pilar Andrews when he’s onstage, LifeSite reported.

What do others have to say about the issue?

“Unfortunately, the Drag Queen Story Hour program is turning public libraries into platforms to advance the transgender revolution, places where pro-homosexual activists are given access to children as young as three,” John Ritchie, director of TFP Student Action, said in an interview, according to LifeSite.

“Instead of protecting the precious innocence of our children with wholesome stories, libraries are misusing our tax dollars to harm their innocence,” Ritchie added, according to the outlet. “To attempt to dismantle and destroy the distinction between male and female is not only biologically ridiculous, but also a direct attack against God’s plan for us and for the family. Everyone who loves the family should wake up, pray and push back.”

Indeed, LGBT activists have said they’re determined to indoctrinate children to accept the movement’s agenda.

“I am here to tell you: All that time I said I wasn’t indoctrinating anyone with my beliefs about gay and lesbian and bi and trans and queer people? That was a lie,” S. Bear Bergman wrote in his piece, “I Have Come to Indoctrinate Your Children Into My LGBTQ Agenda (And I’m Not a Bit Sorry)” in 2015. “All 25 years of my career as an LGBTQ activist, since the very first time as a 16-year-old I went and stood shaking and breathless in front of eleven people to talk about My Story, I have been on a consistent campaign of trying to change people’s minds about us. I want to make them like us. That is absolutely my goal. I want to make your children like people like me and my family, even if that goes against the way you have interpreted the teachings of your religion.”

Gay activist Daniel Villarreal wrote in Queerty.com that those in the LGBT movement “want educators to teach future generations of children to accept queer sexuality. In fact, our very future depends on it … Recruiting children? You bet we are.”

His 2011 piece added, “Why would we push anti-bullying programs or social studies classes that teach kids about the historical contributions of famous queers unless we wanted to deliberately educate children to accept queer sexuality as normal?”

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/11/2 ... 270%20days

Hasty generalizations are a wicked tool. Wicked, as in nasty. Its the cause/root of some really bad things in our world. I don't like hasty generalizations. I don't want to compartmentalize a whole group and pretend that ALL Jews are X, or ALL gays are Y, or ALL blacks are Z, etc.

Some gay people have an agenda, some don't.

It is not right to generalize people based on race or general appearance.

However, it is considered right (though it may not be) to categorize people who want to be known for their behavior. They even demand to be labeled as their dysfunctional behavior. I prefer not to label people except “child of God.” Yet, there have been too many lgbtqblabla parades, clubs, propaganda and other events to ignore their loud screaming for everyone to call them by their special sexual disorders.

The irony is that people who claim to be loving go along with their mentally ill demands and label them according to their sexual disorders. Then they turn around and get mad at people for “hasty generalizations.”

[Fiannan]

And to think that people discover that the Catholic Church used to castrate little boys so they could become singers in church choirs they usually are shocked. And yet...

[EmmaLee]

Drag queen who goes by 'Annie Christ' reads to kids at public library as Drag Queen Story Time spreads
'Stop your hate! Drag is great!'
DAVE URBANSKI

If you're wondering whether or not the controversial Drag Queen Story Time phenomenon has been gaining or losing popularity, a video shot outside Pennsylvania's Lansdale Public Library this weekend should answer that question.

It showed two kids engaged in a counterprotest against those opposed to drag queens in full costume reading to children — and they chanted, "Stop your hate! Drag is great!"

Other folks carried signs that read, "God Thinks Drag Queens Are Fabulous" and "Love Is Love Is Love" and chanted "Love thy neighbor!"

'Annie Christ'
On Saturday morning inside the library, the individual reading books to children about tolerance and diversity went by Drag Queen Miss Annie, WPVI-TV reported.

But when performing for an adults-only crowd, this drag queen goes by "Annie Christ" — and wasn't pleased with protests against the story time.

"It's like an actor being in a rated-R movie not being able to read to kids," Annie Christ told WPVI. "It's my side job; it's what I do at a club that's 21 and over."

And despite the protests against the story time, WPVI said dozens of families flocked into the library outside Philadelphia to listen to the drag queen read.

What did others have to say?

"I wanna raise him to accept people and be nice to everyone," mother Missy Bonham told the station.

Tristan Bonham echoed that sentiment, telling WPVI "treat people how you want to be treated."

Outside the library, the station said police lined the middle of the street to separate opposing groups.

"Annie is in there sharing a message of acceptance and love and being able to be who we are," Elaine Ely told WPVI.

Marilyn Teed disagreed, telling the station "little children, they think, 'Oh well, this is okay' when it's really not natural or normal."

Albert Howard added to WPVI that "If you want to do what you wanna do and be, that's fine. That's between you and God one day, but to teach the kids? No."

Library Director Tom Meyer told the station people have been asking him why the library doesn't have Bible story times.

"We do," he noted to WPVI. "We've done it. It's happened."

A broader look at the issue

Children-focused Drag Queen Story Times (or Hours, as they're also called) also have hit public libraries in Boston, Southern California, and Brooklyn, New York.

One drag queen involved in pushing a story time reading for kids in Louisiana admitted that the events are meant to "groom the next generation." [Duh]

LGBTQ activist S. Bear Bergman noted a similar sentiment in his 2015 Huffington Post piece, "I Have Come to Indoctrinate Your Children Into My LGBTQ Agenda And I'm Not a Bit Sorry."

"I am here to tell you: All that time I said I wasn't indoctrinating anyone with my beliefs about gay and lesbian and bi and trans and queer people? That was a lie," Bergman wrote. "All 25 years of my career as an LGBTQ activist, since the very first time as a 16-year-old I went and stood shaking and breathless in front of eleven people to talk about My Story, I have been on a consistent campaign of trying to change people's minds about us. I want to make them like us. That is absolutely my goal. I want to make your children like people like me and my family, even if that goes against the way you have interpreted the teachings of your religion."

Kids are getting into the act, too. Some children also have gained notoriety by declaring themselves drag queens. One started a kid-friendly drag club at his Brooklyn school.

Another child — Nemis Quinn Mélançon Golden — got into drag when he was 7, and then just a year later started going by his stage name "Lactatia."

"Anyone can do what they want in life," he told LGBT in the City on camera. "It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. If you want to be a drag queen and your parents don't let you, you need new parents. If you want to be a drag queen and your friends don't let you, you need new friends."

Now 10, he recently was photographed with a nude adult drag star.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/ready-dra ... cebook.com

[mgridle1]

LGBTQ activist S. Bear Bergman noted a similar sentiment in his 2015 Huffington Post piece, "I Have Come to Indoctrinate Your Children Into My LGBTQ Agenda And I'm Not a Bit Sorry."

"I am here to tell you: All that time I said I wasn't indoctrinating anyone with my beliefs about gay and lesbian and bi and trans and queer people? That was a lie," Bergman wrote. "All 25 years of my career as an LGBTQ activist, since the very first time as a 16-year-old I went and stood shaking and breathless in front of eleven people to talk about My Story, I have been on a consistent campaign of trying to change people's minds about us. I want to make them like us. That is absolutely my goal. I want to make your children like people like me and my family, even if that goes against the way you have interpreted the teachings of your religion."

Absolutely; and it's in the Church
"This morning I received this apology from my stake president.

Sunday as I worked on the computer in the stake clerk’s office, a group of three leaders were talking about jury duty and one of them told how his friend got out of being picked by saying he couldn’t see the gay man as not guilty because his church teaches homosexuality is wrong.

As he got to what his friend said, I could feel the mood change, suddenly they were uneasy and rather than quote the words of his friend (which was meant to get a laugh), he started describing the meaning of the words. He’d start a sentence and part way thru would realize it still sounds bad and he’d start again, and again. It was too late, the story landed with a thud and the other two men gave a courteous laugh and they quickly moved on.

Just by being out and in the room, I changed their perception of what is funny and appropriate. Still sucked to hear it, I kept facing the computer instead of turning around and confronting them. One of them has a gay son and I wish he’d have said something. However, the lesson seemed to have been realized before the story was over."
-----------
"Saturday evening I was chatting with my stake president. He pointed out that he’s been the stake president for 8 years and he served as a counselor in 2 other stake presidencies. Each of those years he met at least one general authority (GA). They’d come, share their message and leave town.

My stake president said I have had more impact on GA’s than he ever has. They probably don’t much run into someone like me as they spend their weekends jetting to stake conferences and meeting the local leaders.

It’s been shared with me that one Seventy weeps when he speaks about meeting me. Another Seventy has corresponded with me a few times and had me over for lunch. I had dinner with an apostle where I spoke about the letter I’d written him that he forwarded to the First Presidency. And then recently I received an apology from a Seventy who will likely change his approach when giving “advice” (aka tells single men they need to get a wife).

It’s not my intent to make a spectacle or nuisance of myself. There’s a couple Area Seventy I’ve met and not had these sorts of “impact” experiences. My stake president said I’m a “learning opportunity” for them and thinks that’s part of why I’m in this calling. "
----------
Just fascinating how an open homosexual guy who has blog posts that utter the F-bomb, that attempts scriptural exegesis to justify homosexuality, who has absolutely no desire to change who he is, has such pull in Church leadership. Amazing.

[mgridle1]

Albert Howard added to WPVI that "If you want to do what you wanna do and be, that's fine. That's between you and God one day, but to teach the kids? No."

Unfortunately this attitude above is exactly what lead to this mess. Should people be put in jail for it? No. Should we condemn it to the hilt? Yes. It's not fine if you want to do it-it's wicked and evil-but you shouldn't be put in jail for it.

[Godislove]

LGBTQ activist S. Bear Bergman noted a similar sentiment in his 2015 Huffington Post piece, "I Have Come to Indoctrinate Your Children Into My LGBTQ Agenda And I'm Not a Bit Sorry."

"I am here to tell you: All that time I said I wasn't indoctrinating anyone with my beliefs about gay and lesbian and bi and trans and queer people? That was a lie," Bergman wrote. "All 25 years of my career as an LGBTQ activist, since the very first time as a 16-year-old I went and stood shaking and breathless in front of eleven people to talk about My Story, I have been on a consistent campaign of trying to change people's minds about us. I want to make them like us. That is absolutely my goal. I want to make your children like people like me and my family, even if that goes against the way you have interpreted the teachings of your religion."

Absolutely; and it's in the Church
"This morning I received this apology from my stake president.

Sunday as I worked on the computer in the stake clerk’s office, a group of three leaders were talking about jury duty and one of them told how his friend got out of being picked by saying he couldn’t see the gay man as not guilty because his church teaches homosexuality is wrong.

As he got to what his friend said, I could feel the mood change, suddenly they were uneasy and rather than quote the words of his friend (which was meant to get a laugh), he started describing the meaning of the words. He’d start a sentence and part way thru would realize it still sounds bad and he’d start again, and again. It was too late, the story landed with a thud and the other two men gave a courteous laugh and they quickly moved on.

Just by being out and in the room, I changed their perception of what is funny and appropriate. Still sucked to hear it, I kept facing the computer instead of turning around and confronting them. One of them has a gay son and I wish he’d have said something. However, the lesson seemed to have been realized before the story was over."
-----------
"Saturday evening I was chatting with my stake president. He pointed out that he’s been the stake president for 8 years and he served as a counselor in 2 other stake presidencies. Each of those years he met at least one general authority (GA). They’d come, share their message and leave town.

My stake president said I have had more impact on GA’s than he ever has. They probably don’t much run into someone like me as they spend their weekends jetting to stake conferences and meeting the local leaders.

It’s been shared with me that one Seventy weeps when he speaks about meeting me. Another Seventy has corresponded with me a few times and had me over for lunch. I had dinner with an apostle where I spoke about the letter I’d written him that he forwarded to the First Presidency. And then recently I received an apology from a Seventy who will likely change his approach when giving “advice” (aka tells single men they need to get a wife).

It’s not my intent to make a spectacle or nuisance of myself. There’s a couple Area Seventy I’ve met and not had these sorts of “impact” experiences. My stake president said I’m a “learning opportunity” for them and thinks that’s part of why I’m in this calling. "
----------
Just fascinating how an open homosexual guy who has blog posts that utter the F-bomb, that attempts scriptural exegesis to justify homosexuality, who has absolutely no desire to change who he is, has such pull in Church leadership. Amazing.

Isaiah 19: 13-14

13 The princess of Zoan are become fools, the princes of Noph are deceived; they have also seduced Egypt, even they that are the stay of the tribes thereof.

14 The Lord hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof and they have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof, as a drunken man staggereth in his vomit.