Polygamy best tactic to destroy a family

[mtm411]

I have wondered if all our gender roles are reversed in the eternities. Our time on earth is so short, maybe it is meant to give us empathy for the other half. Female dominated polygamy, Scriptures full of females with a few males here and there, Female leaders with male subjects, pregnant men.

Sure would be interesting. I don't actually think this is how it will be. I suspect that a lot of our social systems regarding genders may be based on eternal gender roles, but I am sure it will be much more egalitarian than it is here.

I believe Elohim is a man and a woman with such a perfect partnership that they are indistinguishable and of one mind. Separate personages, but it doesn't matter because they are so equal and in tune that you couldn't tell where one begins and the other ends.

It is wrong every time an adult marries a 14 year old. Are you serious?! Also a lot of the old men marrying underaged girls were religious leaders. It's pretty hard to not consent when the man who has told you he has the authority to get you to heaven or not wants to marry you and have sex with you. How could that possibly be informed consent? Have you met 14 year olds? I don't think they were much different then than they are now. If anything, puberty happens earlier for girls now.

Some monogamists have issues living monogamy in God's way, no doubt, but that doesn't mean we all get to give up on marriage and have sex whenever and wherever with whomever. God wants us in nuclear families, and the proclaimation on the family even says children are ENTITLED to being born this way. That is a pretty strong endorsement for nuclear families.

Why so much drama?

Of course it happens in monogamy and the situation applies to those marriages as well. When Nelson passes on, him being nearly 94 years old, what shall his wife do? She is a lot younger and will be expected to be alone? Can a prophets widow remarry and not be looked down upon? Don't women need companionship as well as the old widows need?

You want to discredit the concerns brought up with polygamy by saying it happens in monogamy as well. You actually think that by finding flaws in monogamy (man and woman always struggle to learn and grow together) that it somehow makes polygamy look okay (multiplied issues and factors of the same old hardships of man and woman learning and growing together). Except in polygamy the people just need to learn to operate without killing each other, they don't have to actually become one.

So you are saying that the answer from the Spirit, to each of them, to marry, was WRONG.
Because... what, it's just plain wrong for any old gross yucky man to marry a beautiful innocent young lady? It's on par with child abuse, yes? And no doubt there is no love, just lust. And when he is 70 and she is 34, he'll find another 14 year old, no doubt, right? Or what??

She becomes a widow, yes. Single, like the many years before she married him. My relative married young to an older man and went 50 years a widow. Sure Sis. Nelson can remarry, why not? Oh WAIT, it's those social mores again, right?

The same problems that exist in polygamy can exist in monogamy, and the same situations can, too. Which is what you described. Which is what Fiannan pointed out. You're saying that is a sign that polygamy is bad; well, is it a sign monogamy is bad, too?

Yes, lockdown is a great way to say it. Fiercely loyal is how the church puts it. I don't see how thats possible with multiple spouses. Of course some would say that each woman is his wife and he is loyal to each of them but it's hard to accept this is what fiercely loyal means. Causing your wife to ever doubt herself with you is already a failure of this. More than one woman will almost surely bring doubts and comparisons to the women's mind. In monogamy, fiercely loyal has none of that.

[MMbelieve]

Why so much drama?

Of course it happens in monogamy and the situation applies to those marriages as well. When Nelson passes on, him being nearly 94 years old, what shall his wife do? She is a lot younger and will be expected to be alone? Can a prophets widow remarry and not be looked down upon? Don't women need companionship as well as the old widows need?

You want to discredit the concerns brought up with polygamy by saying it happens in monogamy as well. You actually think that by finding flaws in monogamy (man and woman always struggle to learn and grow together) that it somehow makes polygamy look okay (multiplied issues and factors of the same old hardships of man and woman learning and growing together). Except in polygamy the people just need to learn to operate without killing each other, they don't have to actually become one.

So you are saying that the answer from the Spirit, to each of them, to marry, was WRONG.
Because... what, it's just plain wrong for any old gross yucky man to marry a beautiful innocent young lady? It's on par with child abuse, yes? And no doubt there is no love, just lust. And when he is 70 and she is 34, he'll find another 14 year old, no doubt, right? Or what??

She becomes a widow, yes. Single, like the many years before she married him. My relative married young to an older man and went 50 years a widow. Sure Sis. Nelson can remarry, why not? Oh WAIT, it's those social mores again, right?

The same problems that exist in polygamy can exist in monogamy, and the same situations can, too. Which is what you described. Which is what Fiannan pointed out. You're saying that is a sign that polygamy is bad; well, is it a sign monogamy is bad, too?

Polygamy doesn't help make it easier to get along, it complicates things more.

All the problems people have in monogamy are also in polgamy, just multiplied and added to.

Maybe. Marriage to two, for example, could make it twice as bad, or twice as good, or balance it out for the man. If problems and sorrows are more, sounds like joys are more, too.

It's not just how bad or how good is it going to be. Typical male thinking. There are complicated variables to factor in and any man who thinks that is easy, is a fool. This is probably why there is lots of expectation from men onto women in this andrrangement to make it work peacefully and not be jealous or contentious. This is one of the complicated variables a man has to deal with with polygamy. He not only has to understand "woman" but he needs to understand the dynamics between women too. I don't know ANY man who can or wants to do this.

And by the way, the way you stated your comment you seemed to be confirming what many already think of polygamy...that's it's for the man.

[MMbelieve]

I have wondered if all our gender roles are reversed in the eternities. Our time on earth is so short, maybe it is meant to give us empathy for the other half. Female dominated polygamy, Scriptures full of females with a few males here and there, Female leaders with male subjects, pregnant men.

Sure would be interesting. I don't actually think this is how it will be. I suspect that a lot of our social systems regarding genders may be based on eternal gender roles, but I am sure it will be much more egalitarian than it is here.

I believe Elohim is a man and a woman with such a perfect partnership that they are indistinguishable and of one mind. Separate personages, but it doesn't matter because they are so equal and in tune that you couldn't tell where one begins and the other ends.

It is wrong every time an adult marries a 14 year old. Are you serious?! Also a lot of the old men marrying underaged girls were religious leaders. It's pretty hard to not consent when the man who has told you he has the authority to get you to heaven or not wants to marry you and have sex with you. How could that possibly be informed consent? Have you met 14 year olds? I don't think they were much different then than they are now. If anything, puberty happens earlier for girls now.

Some monogamists have issues living monogamy in God's way, no doubt, but that doesn't mean we all get to give up on marriage and have sex whenever and wherever with whomever. God wants us in nuclear families, and the proclaimation on the family even says children are ENTITLED to being born this way. That is a pretty strong endorsement for nuclear families.

So you are saying that the answer from the Spirit, to each of them, to marry, was WRONG.
Because... what, it's just plain wrong for any old gross yucky man to marry a beautiful innocent young lady? It's on par with child abuse, yes? And no doubt there is no love, just lust. And when he is 70 and she is 34, he'll find another 14 year old, no doubt, right? Or what??

She becomes a widow, yes. Single, like the many years before she married him. My relative married young to an older man and went 50 years a widow. Sure Sis. Nelson can remarry, why not? Oh WAIT, it's those social mores again, right?

The same problems that exist in polygamy can exist in monogamy, and the same situations can, too. Which is what you described. Which is what Fiannan pointed out. You're saying that is a sign that polygamy is bad; well, is it a sign monogamy is bad, too?

Yes, lockdown is a great way to say it. Fiercely loyal is how the church puts it. I don't see how thats possible with multiple spouses. Of course some would say that each woman is his wife and he is loyal to each of them but it's hard to accept this is what fiercely loyal means. Causing your wife to ever doubt herself with you is already a failure of this. More than one woman will almost surely bring doubts and comparisons to the women's mind. In monogamy, fiercely loyal has none of that.

The interesting thing about a faithful and committed relationship between 1 man and 1 woman is that we balance each other out. Men become a bit more like women and women become a bit more like men. We do meld into eachother. The older couples that display this are pretty awesome people.

[JohnnyL]

I have a few family stories of the polygamist man leaving town with the younger wife, but never heard of one where he left with his old wife.

I also have an ancestor of means who lost her husband in Winter Quarters, Brigham Young commanded a friend to marry her and care for her and her many children. Well, he took her wagon, supplies, money her husband left for her and left her pregnant. Promised to come back for her and never did. Eventually, her son sent for her to come to Utah with her baby and raised that baby and cared for his mother. She spent years at Winter quarters penniless with her younger children, just waiting and starving. She would have been better off alone.

We are blessed that we can see the fruits of polygamy because it just wasn't that long ago, yet still we deny the rotten fruit.

The prophet and apostles have figured it out. They distance themselves from the filthy practice everytime they get the chance. Denying it's doctrine, saying it's purpose has been completed in an effort to walk the line between throwing early saints under the bus and condoning its practice today. Polygamy was a bunch of fatherless children and women running their homes alone, or with help from other women.

The apostles are old enough to see how this played out with their own relatives and warn us against it and encourage the nuclear family so strongly now. Just look at the proclamation. No polygamist father could do all the father's duties. There just isn't time or money to protect, provide, and guide a massive family.

Nothing would get you excommunicated faster than polygamy today, they learned first hand how damaged it left families. It's a cancer through communities. If your parents were polygamists, you have to wait until you are over 18 and denounce the practice to get baptized.

And some sisters would have been better off not getting married in a monogamous marriage, too. I guess those are the rotten fruit of monogamy.

It could also be that the RLDS practice it.

[JohnnyL]

So some here would say that polygamy destroys families more than communism (and other forms of oppressive and destructive governments), or
selfishness and laziness, laws, poverty/taxes/burdens, feminism, and same sex marriage.

Would that be a true statement?

[mtm411]

Right. What if the man is an abusive monster? Then many women are in a horrible situation. He could be infertile, half of couples who can't get pregnant, the cause is the man. He could deny many women motherhood in that case.

Then again, when I brought up poor Hagar, I was told that suffering is good and what life is about and makes us stronger. Men are that they might have joy, females excluded.

And yes, polygamy is more destructive to children than communism.

So you are saying that the answer from the Spirit, to each of them, to marry, was WRONG.
Because... what, it's just plain wrong for any old gross yucky man to marry a beautiful innocent young lady? It's on par with child abuse, yes? And no doubt there is no love, just lust. And when he is 70 and she is 34, he'll find another 14 year old, no doubt, right? Or what??

She becomes a widow, yes. Single, like the many years before she married him. My relative married young to an older man and went 50 years a widow. Sure Sis. Nelson can remarry, why not? Oh WAIT, it's those social mores again, right?

The same problems that exist in polygamy can exist in monogamy, and the same situations can, too. Which is what you described. Which is what Fiannan pointed out. You're saying that is a sign that polygamy is bad; well, is it a sign monogamy is bad, too?

Polygamy doesn't help make it easier to get along, it complicates things more.

All the problems people have in monogamy are also in polgamy, just multiplied and added to.

Maybe. Marriage to two, for example, could make it twice as bad, or twice as good, or balance it out for the man. If problems and sorrows are more, sounds like joys are more, too.

It's not just how bad or how good is it going to be. Typical male thinking. There are complicated variables to factor in and any man who thinks that is easy, is a fool. This is probably why there is lots of expectation from men onto women in this andrrangement to make it work peacefully and not be jealous or contentious. This is one of the complicated variables a man has to deal with with polygamy. He not only has to understand "woman" but he needs to understand the dynamics between women too. I don't know ANY man who can or wants to do this.

And by the way, the way you stated your comment you seemed to be confirming what many already think of polygamy...that's it's for the man.

[Thinker]

I am not sure where you are getting infallibility claims from. The Church has never claimed to be infallible. In fact, it has made the opposite claim.

...Mistakes have been made. Errors have been repeated.

Which mistakes and errors? Name them.
We know mistakes have been made.
We know that no human is perfect.
We know we should not place anyone before God.

Yet, if we point to the obvious - church leaders’ mistakes - we get in trouble.
My bishop called me into his office harassing and threatening me and telling me that “our church leaders don’t make mistakes” for me talking to his wife YEARS before about the shopping mall built using funds gathered in the name of Jesus Christ.

Dallin Oaks said, “The church doesn't seek apologies and we don't give them."
How well would repentance work if everyone followed that example?

City Creek funding came from the for profit businesses, not from funds collected as tithing or fast offerings. So, I’m not talking about that. I am referring to anything the bretheren said in speculation that was later revealed as not correct. For example, Bruce R. McConkie’s speculation on why blacks did not have the priesthood.

Wait a minute - not so fast. ANY and ALL money the church of Jesus Christ of lds collected was collected in the name of Jesus Christ.

And keeping this on topic...
“Finances are the leading cause of stress in a relationship, according to a survey...” (https://www.cnbc.com/2015/02/04/money-i ... ships.html)

Utah has high rates of debt and bankruptcy. And financial problems is a major actual factor in destroying marriage and families.

**Scripture states that tithing is supposed to be based on increase, but church has changed it to be based on income. This is a problem because it can create poverty. Let me show you how:
2 men earn the same income.
1 man is the sole provider of a family of 7 & after paying bills, has no increase left.
2nd man lives with his parents who pay all bills so all of his income is increase.
The church demands the same amount of money from each, thereby hurting the 1st man and his family.

**Priestcraft is charging for worthiness. To be considered celestially and temple worthy, one mu$t pay money to the church.

**We are brought in to be accountable in regular tithing settlements, yet church leaders keep finances dark & secret. Yet we do know because Oaks admitted that no tithing goes to those in need. This is disobeying the law of tithing stating that 1/3 of tithes is intended to go to the poor (Deut 14:28-29 which has been hidden, not found, in lds bible indexes & dictionaries under “tithing”) & is also disobeying Christ’s greatest commandments.

So, while it may be fun for guys to fantasize together about what it would be like to have multiple women... the practical more immediate concern is that financial problems often destroy families... and others.

[nightlight]

I have a few family stories of the polygamist man leaving town with the younger wife, but never heard of one where he left with his old wife.

I also have an ancestor of means who lost her husband in Winter Quarters, Brigham Young commanded a friend to marry her and care for her and her many children. Well, he took her wagon, supplies, money her husband left for her and left her pregnant. Promised to come back for her and never did. Eventually, her son sent for her to come to Utah with her baby and raised that baby and cared for his mother. She spent years at Winter quarters penniless with her younger children, just waiting and starving. She would have been better off alone.

We are blessed that we can see the fruits of polygamy because it just wasn't that long ago, yet still we deny the rotten fruit.

The prophet and apostles have figured it out. They distance themselves from the filthy practice everytime they get the chance. Denying it's doctrine, saying it's purpose has been completed in an effort to walk the line between throwing early saints under the bus and condoning its practice today. Polygamy was a bunch of fatherless children and women running their homes alone, or with help from other women.

The apostles are old enough to see how this played out with their own relatives and warn us against it and encourage the nuclear family so strongly now. Just look at the proclamation. No polygamist father could do all the father's duties. There just isn't time or money to protect, provide, and guide a massive family.

Nothing would get you excommunicated faster than polygamy today, they learned first hand how damaged it left families. It's a cancer through communities. If your parents were polygamists, you have to wait until you are over 18 and denounce the practice to get baptized.

A lot of men on here suppose that they would be the ones to have many wives. Unless you were wealthy and well connected, odds are that you would have an extended virginity and bachelorhood, if you married at all.

So those who argue that men have a higher sex-drive have to understand that for most Utah men during polygamy you would have had to bridle your passions for an extra decade or more. Unless your uncle or father was a prophet, apostle, stake president. Or you happened to be a prolific money maker, you were more likely to be a 40 year old virgin than sitting pretty with your 3 wives.

I think most men here would rather not live polygamy but that doesn't change the fact that its been taught and practiced by multiple prophets throughout time.
Accepting that polygamy happened via God's plan doesn't mean that we would want it.

My GG Grandpa on my Mom's side was a polygamist. He hated is so much that he took his first wife and moved to California against the direction of Brigham Young. After his 2nd wife remarried (5 years), he moved back.

Speak for yourself...

Gordon B. Hinkley:
"More than a century ago God clearly revealed unto His prophet Wilford Woodruff that the practice of plural marriage should be discontinued, which means that it is now against the law of God. Even in countries where civil or religious law allows polygamy, the Church teaches that marriage must be monogamous and does not accept into its membership those practicing plural marriage."
-----------------------

Publicly say these things and see what happens.....

let me know if you want more quotes on current Prophets and apostles claiming early lds plural marriage was instituted by God... you have zero authority to teach new doctrine or correct past priesthood leaders.... Check yourself lady

[nightlight]

Right. What if the man is an abusive monster? Then many women are in a horrible situation. He could be infertile, half of couples who can't get pregnant, the cause is the man. He could deny many women motherhood in that case.

Then again, when I brought up poor Hagar, I was told that suffering is good and what life is about and makes us stronger. Men are that they might have joy, females excluded.

And yes, polygamy is more destructive to children than communism.

Polygamy doesn't help make it easier to get along, it complicates things more.

All the problems people have in monogamy are also in polgamy, just multiplied and added to.

Maybe. Marriage to two, for example, could make it twice as bad, or twice as good, or balance it out for the man. If problems and sorrows are more, sounds like joys are more, too.

It's not just how bad or how good is it going to be. Typical male thinking. There are complicated variables to factor in and any man who thinks that is easy, is a fool. This is probably why there is lots of expectation from men onto women in this andrrangement to make it work peacefully and not be jealous or contentious. This is one of the complicated variables a man has to deal with with polygamy. He not only has to understand "woman" but he needs to understand the dynamics between women too. I don't know ANY man who can or wants to do this.

And by the way, the way you stated your comment you seemed to be confirming what many already think of polygamy...that's it's for the man.

Than communism?????

You really are the product of BYU professors...

[Bronco73idi]

Right. What if the man is an abusive monster? Then many women are in a horrible situation. He could be infertile, half of couples who can't get pregnant, the cause is the man. He could deny many women motherhood in that case.

Then again, when I brought up poor Hagar, I was told that suffering is good and what life is about and makes us stronger. Men are that they might have joy, females excluded.

And yes, polygamy is more destructive to children than communism.

Polygamy doesn't help make it easier to get along, it complicates things more.

All the problems people have in monogamy are also in polgamy, just multiplied and added to.

Maybe. Marriage to two, for example, could make it twice as bad, or twice as good, or balance it out for the man. If problems and sorrows are more, sounds like joys are more, too.

It's not just how bad or how good is it going to be. Typical male thinking. There are complicated variables to factor in and any man who thinks that is easy, is a fool. This is probably why there is lots of expectation from men onto women in this andrrangement to make it work peacefully and not be jealous or contentious. This is one of the complicated variables a man has to deal with with polygamy. He not only has to understand "woman" but he needs to understand the dynamics between women too. I don't know ANY man who can or wants to do this.

And by the way, the way you stated your comment you seemed to be confirming what many already think of polygamy...that's it's for the man.

This is funny, sexist but funny!!!!

What if a woman is an abusive monster? I know plenty of them. It’s not manly to talk about it.

Typical to our emotional society, pull the victim card before it happens and shame men.

[MMbelieve]

Right. What if the man is an abusive monster? Then many women are in a horrible situation. He could be infertile, half of couples who can't get pregnant, the cause is the man. He could deny many women motherhood in that case.

Then again, when I brought up poor Hagar, I was told that suffering is good and what life is about and makes us stronger. Men are that they might have joy, females excluded.

And yes, polygamy is more destructive to children than communism.

Maybe. Marriage to two, for example, could make it twice as bad, or twice as good, or balance it out for the man. If problems and sorrows are more, sounds like joys are more, too.

It's not just how bad or how good is it going to be. Typical male thinking. There are complicated variables to factor in and any man who thinks that is easy, is a fool. This is probably why there is lots of expectation from men onto women in this andrrangement to make it work peacefully and not be jealous or contentious. This is one of the complicated variables a man has to deal with with polygamy. He not only has to understand "woman" but he needs to understand the dynamics between women too. I don't know ANY man who can or wants to do this.

And by the way, the way you stated your comment you seemed to be confirming what many already think of polygamy...that's it's for the man.

This is funny, sexist but funny!!!!

What if a woman is an abusive monster? I know plenty of them. It’s not manly to talk about it.

Typical to our emotional society, pull the victim card before it happens and shame men.

Maybe men should speak of it.

What I said was based on what I observe from the discussions and his comment.

[Fiannan]

Of course it happens in monogamy and the situation applies to those marriages as well. When Nelson passes on, him being nearly 94 years old, what shall his wife do? She is a lot younger and will be expected to be alone? Can a prophets widow remarry and not be looked down upon? Don't women need companionship as well as the old widows need?

Does she have biological children? That makes a huge difference. Oh, and I had a really good friend who died when he was 34. Who can tell how long you will live? An older man might live longer than his younger wife.

You want to discredit the concerns brought up with polygamy by saying it happens in monogamy as well. You actually think that by finding flaws in monogamy (man and woman always struggle to learn and grow together) that it somehow makes polygamy look okay (multiplied issues and factors of the same old hardships of man and woman learning and growing together). Except in polygamy the people just need to learn to operate without killing eachother, they don't have to actually become one.

If the critics of polygamy cite flaws that also exist in monogamy then it is incumbent on them to demonstrate that any such flaws are more common in polygamy.

As for your observation on family dynamics I spoke to a professor once who said the happiest relationship she ever had was when she, another woman and a man formed a polyamorous relationship. Ironically the man undermined it as he felt she and her wife were spending more time with each other than with him. She did say that she hoped one day to be able to have such a relationship again but with a man who did not feel threatened by her relationships with other women in such a group marriage. Of course you will say that this illustrates jealousy but I have seen this in plenty of monogamous relationships as well, except in these cases it involved careers, in-laws, hobbies, etc.

[MMbelieve]

Of course it happens in monogamy and the situation applies to those marriages as well. When Nelson passes on, him being nearly 94 years old, what shall his wife do? She is a lot younger and will be expected to be alone? Can a prophets widow remarry and not be looked down upon? Don't women need companionship as well as the old widows need?

Does she have biological children? That makes a huge difference. Oh, and I had a really good friend who died when he was 34. Who can tell how long you will live? An older man might live longer than his younger wife.

You want to discredit the concerns brought up with polygamy by saying it happens in monogamy as well. You actually think that by finding flaws in monogamy (man and woman always struggle to learn and grow together) that it somehow makes polygamy look okay (multiplied issues and factors of the same old hardships of man and woman learning and growing together). Except in polygamy the people just need to learn to operate without killing eachother, they don't have to actually become one.

If the critics of polygamy cite flaws that also exist in monogamy then it is incumbent on them to demonstrate that any such flaws are more common in polygamy.

As for your observation on family dynamics I spoke to a professor once who said the happiest relationship she ever had was when she, another woman and a man formed a polyamorous relationship. Ironically the man undermined it as he felt she and her wife were spending more time with each other than with him. She did say that she hoped one day to be able to have such a relationship again but with a man who did not feel threatened by her relationships with other women in such a group marriage. Of course you will say that this illustrates jealousy but I have seen this in plenty of monogamous relationships as well, except in these cases it involved careers, in-laws, hobbies, etc.

Your quoting a female professor?
And her man left? That goes to prove your stance that men are turned off by intelligent career women. It may not have been that he was jealous of them but that he wasn't "in charge" like he wanted to be.

[Bronco73idi]

Right. What if the man is an abusive monster? Then many women are in a horrible situation. He could be infertile, half of couples who can't get pregnant, the cause is the man. He could deny many women motherhood in that case.

Then again, when I brought up poor Hagar, I was told that suffering is good and what life is about and makes us stronger. Men are that they might have joy, females excluded.

And yes, polygamy is more destructive to children than communism.

It's not just how bad or how good is it going to be. Typical male thinking. There are complicated variables to factor in and any man who thinks that is easy, is a fool. This is probably why there is lots of expectation from men onto women in this andrrangement to make it work peacefully and not be jealous or contentious. This is one of the complicated variables a man has to deal with with polygamy. He not only has to understand "woman" but he needs to understand the dynamics between women too. I don't know ANY man who can or wants to do this.

And by the way, the way you stated your comment you seemed to be confirming what many already think of polygamy...that's it's for the man.

This is funny, sexist but funny!!!!

What if a woman is an abusive monster? I know plenty of them. It’s not manly to talk about it.

Typical to our emotional society, pull the victim card before it happens and shame men.

Maybe men should speak of it.

What I said was based on what I observe from the discussions and his comment.

That’s like saying maybe women should speak up. The ones who are truly vocal about it usually are not victims.

My ex aunt and uncle would drink and she would get violent. They stopped drinking for a long time. One night they got drunk and she hit him over and over so he knocked her out. He should have reported her way before this so him losing everything is his fault. He also had her new boyfriend on his side at court.

Our society thinks the joke, man gets mad at women and she yells at him, women gets mad at man and she yells at him is funny (true) truth is always funnier then fiction.

Another joke, a son is about to get married, dad hits him. Son asked why, dads only reply is “apologize”. Dad ignores son until he apologizes. Dad replies now you are ready to get married.

All these sexist jokes are doing is reminding women it’s alright to be an emotional idiot. I think they are as disgusting as a dirty joke.

[Bronco73idi]

Of course it happens in monogamy and the situation applies to those marriages as well. When Nelson passes on, him being nearly 94 years old, what shall his wife do? She is a lot younger and will be expected to be alone? Can a prophets widow remarry and not be looked down upon? Don't women need companionship as well as the old widows need?

Does she have biological children? That makes a huge difference. Oh, and I had a really good friend who died when he was 34. Who can tell how long you will live? An older man might live longer than his younger wife.

You want to discredit the concerns brought up with polygamy by saying it happens in monogamy as well. You actually think that by finding flaws in monogamy (man and woman always struggle to learn and grow together) that it somehow makes polygamy look okay (multiplied issues and factors of the same old hardships of man and woman learning and growing together). Except in polygamy the people just need to learn to operate without killing eachother, they don't have to actually become one.

If the critics of polygamy cite flaws that also exist in monogamy then it is incumbent on them to demonstrate that any such flaws are more common in polygamy.

As for your observation on family dynamics I spoke to a professor once who said the happiest relationship she ever had was when she, another woman and a man formed a polyamorous relationship. Ironically the man undermined it as he felt she and her wife were spending more time with each other than with him. She did say that she hoped one day to be able to have such a relationship again but with a man who did not feel threatened by her relationships with other women in such a group marriage. Of course you will say that this illustrates jealousy but I have seen this in plenty of monogamous relationships as well, except in these cases it involved careers, in-laws, hobbies, etc.

Your quoting a female professor?
And her man left? That goes to prove your stance that men are turned off by intelligent career women. It may not have been that he was jealous of them but that he wasn't "in charge" like he wanted to be.

Men aren’t turned off by successful women. Successful women are mean and belittle

[Fiannan]

Of course it happens in monogamy and the situation applies to those marriages as well. When Nelson passes on, him being nearly 94 years old, what shall his wife do? She is a lot younger and will be expected to be alone? Can a prophets widow remarry and not be looked down upon? Don't women need companionship as well as the old widows need?

Does she have biological children? That makes a huge difference. Oh, and I had a really good friend who died when he was 34. Who can tell how long you will live? An older man might live longer than his younger wife.

You want to discredit the concerns brought up with polygamy by saying it happens in monogamy as well. You actually think that by finding flaws in monogamy (man and woman always struggle to learn and grow together) that it somehow makes polygamy look okay (multiplied issues and factors of the same old hardships of man and woman learning and growing together). Except in polygamy the people just need to learn to operate without killing eachother, they don't have to actually become one.

If the critics of polygamy cite flaws that also exist in monogamy then it is incumbent on them to demonstrate that any such flaws are more common in polygamy.

As for your observation on family dynamics I spoke to a professor once who said the happiest relationship she ever had was when she, another woman and a man formed a polyamorous relationship. Ironically the man undermined it as he felt she and her wife were spending more time with each other than with him. She did say that she hoped one day to be able to have such a relationship again but with a man who did not feel threatened by her relationships with other women in such a group marriage. Of course you will say that this illustrates jealousy but I have seen this in plenty of monogamous relationships as well, except in these cases it involved careers, in-laws, hobbies, etc.

Your quoting a female professor?
And her man left? That goes to prove your stance that men are turned off by intelligent career women. It may not have been that he was jealous of them but that he wasn't "in charge" like he wanted to be.

You think all men are like that?

[MMbelieve]

Right. What if the man is an abusive monster? Then many women are in a horrible situation. He could be infertile, half of couples who can't get pregnant, the cause is the man. He could deny many women motherhood in that case.

Then again, when I brought up poor Hagar, I was told that suffering is good and what life is about and makes us stronger. Men are that they might have joy, females excluded.

And yes, polygamy is more destructive to children than communism.

This is funny, sexist but funny!!!!

What if a woman is an abusive monster? I know plenty of them. It’s not manly to talk about it.

Typical to our emotional society, pull the victim card before it happens and shame men.

Maybe men should speak of it.

What I said was based on what I observe from the discussions and his comment.

That’s like saying maybe women should speak up. The ones who are truly vocal about it usually are not victims.

My ex aunt and uncle would drink and she would get violent. They stopped drinking for a long time. One night they got drunk and she hit him over and over so he knocked her out. He should have reported her way before this so him losing everything is his fault. He also had her new boyfriend on his side at court.

Our society thinks the joke, man gets mad at women and she yells at him, women gets mad at man and she yells at him is funny (true) truth is always funnier then fiction.

Another joke, a son is about to get married, dad hits him. Son asked why, dads only reply is “apologize”. Dad ignores son until he apologizes. Dad replies now you are ready to get married.

All these sexist jokes are doing is reminding women it’s alright to be an emotional idiot. I think they are as disgusting as a dirty joke.

You said it's not manly to "talk" about. I said maybe men should talk about it.

What's really funny is that your talking about it while complaining about not being able to talk about it....while throwing in an insult at women as "emotional idiots".

Now that's funny!

[MMbelieve]

Of course it happens in monogamy and the situation applies to those marriages as well. When Nelson passes on, him being nearly 94 years old, what shall his wife do? She is a lot younger and will be expected to be alone? Can a prophets widow remarry and not be looked down upon? Don't women need companionship as well as the old widows need?

Does she have biological children? That makes a huge difference. Oh, and I had a really good friend who died when he was 34. Who can tell how long you will live? An older man might live longer than his younger wife.

You want to discredit the concerns brought up with polygamy by saying it happens in monogamy as well. You actually think that by finding flaws in monogamy (man and woman always struggle to learn and grow together) that it somehow makes polygamy look okay (multiplied issues and factors of the same old hardships of man and woman learning and growing together). Except in polygamy the people just need to learn to operate without killing eachother, they don't have to actually become one.

If the critics of polygamy cite flaws that also exist in monogamy then it is incumbent on them to demonstrate that any such flaws are more common in polygamy.

As for your observation on family dynamics I spoke to a professor once who said the happiest relationship she ever had was when she, another woman and a man formed a polyamorous relationship. Ironically the man undermined it as he felt she and her wife were spending more time with each other than with him. She did say that she hoped one day to be able to have such a relationship again but with a man who did not feel threatened by her relationships with other women in such a group marriage. Of course you will say that this illustrates jealousy but I have seen this in plenty of monogamous relationships as well, except in these cases it involved careers, in-laws, hobbies, etc.

Your quoting a female professor?
And her man left? That goes to prove your stance that men are turned off by intelligent career women. It may not have been that he was jealous of them but that he wasn't "in charge" like he wanted to be.

You think all men are like that?

Haha, not at all but you talked as if they were. This wasn't about me though. It was about you using one example here and one example there to prove whatever point you feel like proving at the moment.

[Bronco73idi]

This is funny, sexist but funny!!!!

What if a woman is an abusive monster? I know plenty of them. It’s not manly to talk about it.

Typical to our emotional society, pull the victim card before it happens and shame men.

Maybe men should speak of it.

What I said was based on what I observe from the discussions and his comment.

That’s like saying maybe women should speak up. The ones who are truly vocal about it usually are not victims.

My ex aunt and uncle would drink and she would get violent. They stopped drinking for a long time. One night they got drunk and she hit him over and over so he knocked her out. He should have reported her way before this so him losing everything is his fault. He also had her new boyfriend on his side at court.

Our society thinks the joke, man gets mad at women and she yells at him, women gets mad at man and she yells at him is funny (true) truth is always funnier then fiction.

Another joke, a son is about to get married, dad hits him. Son asked why, dads only reply is “apologize”. Dad ignores son until he apologizes. Dad replies now you are ready to get married.

All these sexist jokes are doing is reminding women it’s alright to be an emotional idiot. I think they are as disgusting as a dirty joke.

You said it's not manly to "talk" about. I said maybe men should talk about it.

What's really funny is that your talking about it while complaining about not being able to talk about it....while throwing in an insult at women as "emotional idiots".

Now that's funny!

True that, I’m not a victim so it doesn’t fit me. Our society has made it a good thing for women(should be) and a laughable thing for men (bad, hypocrites)

Bottom line it’s all a sin so using this as a point to argue(sin) against polygamy is moot. Back to laughable

At this time on earth being married to 2 or more women at one time is a sin. Being sealed to 2 or more women is not. That’s the facts the rest is just emotional complaining.

[MMbelieve]

Of course it happens in monogamy and the situation applies to those marriages as well. When Nelson passes on, him being nearly 94 years old, what shall his wife do? She is a lot younger and will be expected to be alone? Can a prophets widow remarry and not be looked down upon? Don't women need companionship as well as the old widows need?

Does she have biological children? That makes a huge difference. Oh, and I had a really good friend who died when he was 34. Who can tell how long you will live? An older man might live longer than his younger wife.

You want to discredit the concerns brought up with polygamy by saying it happens in monogamy as well. You actually think that by finding flaws in monogamy (man and woman always struggle to learn and grow together) that it somehow makes polygamy look okay (multiplied issues and factors of the same old hardships of man and woman learning and growing together). Except in polygamy the people just need to learn to operate without killing eachother, they don't have to actually become one.

If the critics of polygamy cite flaws that also exist in monogamy then it is incumbent on them to demonstrate that any such flaws are more common in polygamy.

As for your observation on family dynamics I spoke to a professor once who said the happiest relationship she ever had was when she, another woman and a man formed a polyamorous relationship. Ironically the man undermined it as he felt she and her wife were spending more time with each other than with him. She did say that she hoped one day to be able to have such a relationship again but with a man who did not feel threatened by her relationships with other women in such a group marriage. Of course you will say that this illustrates jealousy but I have seen this in plenty of monogamous relationships as well, except in these cases it involved careers, in-laws, hobbies, etc.

Your quoting a female professor?
And her man left? That goes to prove your stance that men are turned off by intelligent career women. It may not have been that he was jealous of them but that he wasn't "in charge" like he wanted to be.

Men aren’t turned off by successful women. Successful women are mean and belittle

Another sexist joke....men want to marry stupid women so they don't know that he's not so smart after all. Oh and the big one, so she does what he says and doesn't challenge him.

Wordly women can and often are mean and belittle. I know plenty of wonderful and very feminine successful women who strive to uplift and contribute rather than belittle and complain.

Women always have a choice to be kind and respectful just the same as men always have the choice to be kind and respectful. There are bad examples EVERYWHERE in this world. We all are on a journey and mess up all the time.

[MMbelieve]

Maybe men should speak of it.

What I said was based on what I observe from the discussions and his comment.

That’s like saying maybe women should speak up. The ones who are truly vocal about it usually are not victims.

My ex aunt and uncle would drink and she would get violent. They stopped drinking for a long time. One night they got drunk and she hit him over and over so he knocked her out. He should have reported her way before this so him losing everything is his fault. He also had her new boyfriend on his side at court.

Our society thinks the joke, man gets mad at women and she yells at him, women gets mad at man and she yells at him is funny (true) truth is always funnier then fiction.

Another joke, a son is about to get married, dad hits him. Son asked why, dads only reply is “apologize”. Dad ignores son until he apologizes. Dad replies now you are ready to get married.

All these sexist jokes are doing is reminding women it’s alright to be an emotional idiot. I think they are as disgusting as a dirty joke.

You said it's not manly to "talk" about. I said maybe men should talk about it.

What's really funny is that your talking about it while complaining about not being able to talk about it....while throwing in an insult at women as "emotional idiots".

Now that's funny!

True that, I’m not a victim so it doesn’t fit me. Our society has made it a good thing for women(should be) and a laughable thing for men (bad, hypocrites)

Bottom line it’s all a sin so using this as a point to argue(sin) against polygamy is moot. Back to laughable

At this time on earth being married to 2 or more women at one time is a sin. Being sealed to 2 or more women is not. That’s the facts the rest is just emotional complaining.

And a woman being sealed to two or more men is also fine. Don't forget that acceptable policy of today.

[Durzan]

That’s like saying maybe women should speak up. The ones who are truly vocal about it usually are not victims.

My ex aunt and uncle would drink and she would get violent. They stopped drinking for a long time. One night they got drunk and she hit him over and over so he knocked her out. He should have reported her way before this so him losing everything is his fault. He also had her new boyfriend on his side at court.

Our society thinks the joke, man gets mad at women and she yells at him, women gets mad at man and she yells at him is funny (true) truth is always funnier then fiction.

Another joke, a son is about to get married, dad hits him. Son asked why, dads only reply is “apologize”. Dad ignores son until he apologizes. Dad replies now you are ready to get married.

All these sexist jokes are doing is reminding women it’s alright to be an emotional idiot. I think they are as disgusting as a dirty joke.

You said it's not manly to "talk" about. I said maybe men should talk about it.

What's really funny is that your talking about it while complaining about not being able to talk about it....while throwing in an insult at women as "emotional idiots".

Now that's funny!

True that, I’m not a victim so it doesn’t fit me. Our society has made it a good thing for women(should be) and a laughable thing for men (bad, hypocrites)

Bottom line it’s all a sin so using this as a point to argue(sin) against polygamy is moot. Back to laughable

At this time on earth being married to 2 or more women at one time is a sin. Being sealed to 2 or more women is not. That’s the facts the rest is just emotional complaining.

And a woman being sealed to two or more men is also fine. Don't forget that acceptable policy of today.

Only if one of the men is dead. Honestly, that policy is one that I wouldn't mind seeing changed, if God wills it.

[Bronco73idi]

That’s like saying maybe women should speak up. The ones who are truly vocal about it usually are not victims.

My ex aunt and uncle would drink and she would get violent. They stopped drinking for a long time. One night they got drunk and she hit him over and over so he knocked her out. He should have reported her way before this so him losing everything is his fault. He also had her new boyfriend on his side at court.

Our society thinks the joke, man gets mad at women and she yells at him, women gets mad at man and she yells at him is funny (true) truth is always funnier then fiction.

Another joke, a son is about to get married, dad hits him. Son asked why, dads only reply is “apologize”. Dad ignores son until he apologizes. Dad replies now you are ready to get married.

All these sexist jokes are doing is reminding women it’s alright to be an emotional idiot. I think they are as disgusting as a dirty joke.

You said it's not manly to "talk" about. I said maybe men should talk about it.

What's really funny is that your talking about it while complaining about not being able to talk about it....while throwing in an insult at women as "emotional idiots".

Now that's funny!

True that, I’m not a victim so it doesn’t fit me. Our society has made it a good thing for women(should be) and a laughable thing for men (bad, hypocrites)

Bottom line it’s all a sin so using this as a point to argue(sin) against polygamy is moot. Back to laughable

At this time on earth being married to 2 or more women at one time is a sin. Being sealed to 2 or more women is not. That’s the facts the rest is just emotional complaining.

And a woman being sealed to two or more men is also fine. Don't forget that acceptable policy of today.

Don’t you think that it’s funny when they wrote that they also added something like “In the end the lord will figure it out”

Reminds me of when the Pharisees ask the lord why Moses allowed divorcement. “Because of the hardness of your hearts”

[Hie'ing to Kolob]

That’s like saying maybe women should speak up. The ones who are truly vocal about it usually are not victims.

My ex aunt and uncle would drink and she would get violent. They stopped drinking for a long time. One night they got drunk and she hit him over and over so he knocked her out. He should have reported her way before this so him losing everything is his fault. He also had her new boyfriend on his side at court.

Our society thinks the joke, man gets mad at women and she yells at him, women gets mad at man and she yells at him is funny (true) truth is always funnier then fiction.

Another joke, a son is about to get married, dad hits him. Son asked why, dads only reply is “apologize”. Dad ignores son until he apologizes. Dad replies now you are ready to get married.

All these sexist jokes are doing is reminding women it’s alright to be an emotional idiot. I think they are as disgusting as a dirty joke.

You said it's not manly to "talk" about. I said maybe men should talk about it.

What's really funny is that your talking about it while complaining about not being able to talk about it....while throwing in an insult at women as "emotional idiots".

Now that's funny!

True that, I’m not a victim so it doesn’t fit me. Our society has made it a good thing for women(should be) and a laughable thing for men (bad, hypocrites)

Bottom line it’s all a sin so using this as a point to argue(sin) against polygamy is moot. Back to laughable

At this time on earth being married to 2 or more women at one time is a sin. Being sealed to 2 or more women is not. That’s the facts the rest is just emotional complaining.

And a woman being sealed to two or more men is also fine. Don't forget that acceptable policy of today.

Do you have this policy? I did not think this was possible even in death. A man can be sealed to more than one women but polyandry not allowed. I'm happy to change my thinking on this. I have a family member, husband died of illness quite young, remarried active worthy husband. Couldn't be sealed to both maintains her sealing to husband #1, to whom husband #2 children are also sealed.

[mtm411]

After death, they can seal her to all her husbands in this life. Many believe this will mean she will choose her favorite, but if God lets men have more than one spouse, I honestly can't reason why a woman wouldn't be allowed the same. It isn't like you have the same pregnancy/time rules in the hereafter. I think we are limiting our understanding of the celestial kingdom to what is possible on earth.

I don't know if there will be some polyandry in Heaven or not. There is definitely precedence for some of it on earth as evidenced by the sealing and marriage practices of the early Saints. Men with many wives polyandry certainly didn't work great on earth either.

You said it's not manly to "talk" about. I said maybe men should talk about it.

What's really funny is that your talking about it while complaining about not being able to talk about it....while throwing in an insult at women as "emotional idiots".

Now that's funny!

True that, I’m not a victim so it doesn’t fit me. Our society has made it a good thing for women(should be) and a laughable thing for men (bad, hypocrites)

Bottom line it’s all a sin so using this as a point to argue(sin) against polygamy is moot. Back to laughable

At this time on earth being married to 2 or more women at one time is a sin. Being sealed to 2 or more women is not. That’s the facts the rest is just emotional complaining.

And a woman being sealed to two or more men is also fine. Don't forget that acceptable policy of today.

Do you have this policy? I did not think this was possible even in death. A man can be sealed to more than one women but polyandry not allowed. I'm happy to change my thinking on this. I have a family member, husband died of illness quite young, remarried active worthy husband. Couldn't be sealed to both maintains her sealing to husband #1, to whom husband #2 children are also sealed.