LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **September 24th, 2018, 6:00 pm**

In my opinion the whole story of Abraham was about how he and Sarah tried to make God's promise to them come true by having him sleep with Hagar instead of trusting God it would happen.

Clearly Solomon and David were just empire building. David commited murder to cover up the fact that he couldn't bridle his passions because he was so out of practice. Jacob was tricked into it, then his wives had him sleep with others so they could claim their slaves' babies as the were in competition to each other.

Remember Hannah and Samuel? Hannah was so sad because her sister wives were cruel to her. That is part of why she was begging for a child. Why would God institute something that made so many so miserable?

Posted: **September 24th, 2018, 6:06 pm**

mtm411 wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 5:40 pm I had the opposite experience. I felt very clearly that it was never God's way and a mistake and felt the spirit burning. Finally my heart and mind could reconcile and I could still believe in a just and loving God and an afterlife I would want to be in.

Durzan wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 12:07 pm For some reason, I did a verse by verse analysis on Section 132 a couple months ago. The conclusion that I came to was that it was indeed inspired of God, and not long after I felt the burning in the bosom and the confirmation of the Spirit. I have developed a testimony of polygamy, when I was unsure of it before, and at times I thought it despicable. What I had once thought to be a

Now I realized that the whole issue is a complicated matter. Remember that God's ways are not our ways Though Polygamy seems to contradict much of our doctrine and beliefs, I can assure you with a full heart and contrite spirit that there are reasons why the commandment to restore plural marriage in the early days of the church was indeed of God.

I, on the other hand, have come to a knowledge by revelation from God that polygamy is of God and that D&C 132 is divinely inspired scripture. Mtm411, I plead with you to consider that your experience may have been a product of your own zeal for what sits best with your notions of eternity instead of the spirit. I can say that, having been deceived by my own zeal in like manner in the past: it felt like the spirit but contradicted the scriptures. It’s been a long path, but the Lord help me better differentiate His spirit from my own. That may be a hard saying, but I stand by the prophets Joseph and Brigham (and Hyrum, and Heber, etc) that the revelation and the practice it describes is of God. So many people here are falling for the arguments put forth in their day against the truth, which they defended with honesty. If we don’t believe them about the origins of D&C 132, and think they were acting as natural men pursuing women, then why not go and join the Community of Christ? They teach what you claim. The reason we don’t do this is because we have a witness that the priesthood is with the church and that President Nelson is a true prophet. Study D&C 132 in fasting and prayer with a heart open to believing and you too can come to know the truth of it. The questions and problems of the Old Testament become clear and melt away in this light (the claim that it always ends in disaster is a lie based on selective, cursory research coupled with Victorian sentimentality; Abraham only had two wives? No [see Genesis 25:6 for example]). Most of all, you can come to actually know the God we worship and His only begotten son.

Posted: **September 24th, 2018, 6:13 pm**

Col. Flagg wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 4:27 pm
Robin Hood wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 3:19 pm
Col. Flagg wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 1:03 pm
Satan couldn't have devised a better tactic to destroy the family unit and plan of salvation than something as awful as polygamy.
While it's obvious you are very much against polygamy, your statement above is clearly ridiculous. My advice... think about what you're were saying before you click "submit".
Why is it ridiculous? And don't patronize me RH... I'm no fool.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Opacj-JimGw

Posted: **September 24th, 2018, 6:16 pm**

NIGHTLIGHT wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 5:16 pm Hinckley said the said the CURRENT practice of polygamy is not doctrinal....perhaps you folks should read the transcript again(this time without emo goggles)

You anti pluar marriage crowd have a strange spirit about your words when you speak on this subject...it cool....I also say/do dumb crap (a lot). I forgive your hyper emotional thoughtprocess on this subject.
------------------------

If our church does K-12 schoolI I will be soooooooo grateful!!!! I don't want my baby son(20 months) to attend public school....and I can't afford private school. Our plan was homeschool but this sound much better!!!

Um. Incorrect. He said he condemns it as a practice because he thinks it is not doctrinal. Why don't you go listen to it again? Sorry, was that too hyperemotional? I think I was at least cool-headed enough to get my spelling and grammar right.

Posted: **September 24th, 2018, 6:16 pm**

I don't want to be at the mercy of my emotions. I want to use them, to enjoy them, and to dominate them.

Oscar Wilde

Posted: **September 24th, 2018, 6:26 pm**

Davka wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 5:53 pm ...
I am not a fan of polygamy as it has been practiced on this Earth. You are spot on that it has never worked well. In the Old Testament, I believe it was good men falling prey to cultural norms of their time, and in early church times, good men misconstruing doctrine and then using the Old Testament practices to rationalize their practice of it. I believe strongly that sealing to multiple people has its place in the eternities, but it's not practiced the way the early church practiced it at all -- and not just because "they weren't righteous enough."
...

This is the hard part for us. Mormon polygamy was not good men misconstruing doctrine. It was charismatic men aiming to do wrong, selfish things and twisting the hell out of scripture (even the new Book of Mormon, most true and correct) to justify their hedonism. Christ said no one is good, except the Father. And scripture tells us the heart of man is unknowably wicked. Can you imagine yourself being a good man and instituting a system where you entice others to commit adultery, so that you can get away with it, yourself? I bet you can't, because it's repulsive to your sensibilities. Meanwhile, we'll go on thinking there must be something we just don't understand, maybe because God's thoughts are not our thoughts, mainly because... infallibility.

Posted: **September 24th, 2018, 6:28 pm**

Crackers wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 6:16 pm
NIGHTLIGHT wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 5:16 pm Hinckley said the said the CURRENT practice of polygamy is not doctrinal....perhaps you folks should read the transcript again(this time without emo goggles)

You anti pluar marriage crowd have a strange spirit about your words when you speak on this subject...it cool....I also say/do dumb crap (a lot). I forgive your hyper emotional thoughtprocess on this subject.
------------------------

If our church does K-12 schoolI I will be soooooooo grateful!!!! I don't want my baby son(20 months) to attend public school....and I can't afford private school. Our plan was homeschool but this sound much better!!!
Um. Incorrect. He said he condemns it as a practice because he thinks it is not doctrinal. Why don't you go listen to it again? Sorry, was that too hyperemotional? I think I was at least cool-headed enough to get my spelling and grammar right.

Lol....ouch

My spelling and grammar are often careless... plus it's hard to type on my phone at work..... But assume what you will...

I can post the transcript for you..... maybe you can work on your comprehension while I practice proper grammar.

Larry King was asking him to condemn the current practice of polygamy.... and he did

Posted: **September 24th, 2018, 6:30 pm**

Maybe if polygamy is not right for your soul path, the Holy Spirit would testify against it. If there was an element of it in your soul path, then maybe the Holy Spirit would testify for it.

My understanding is it isn't the blanket protocol in heaven. The way we are created is a man and his spiritual half, his woman. That is the protocol.

But just like it is protocol for most people to have a brain that functions, some people have brain damage. If technology were able to take someone's brain and use it to hook it up to the brain damaged person's brain so the person could experience a functioning body, then, under ethical conditions where someone with much love involved could do that for someone else, then maybe they would.

From what the Spirit teaches me, the situation is not standard across the board and most people should be getting the importance of one man and one woman loving each other and dedicated to each other. That is the spirit of the law and that is what we ought to strive for both in this life and in the next.

Posted: **September 24th, 2018, 6:35 pm**

NIGHTLIGHT wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 6:28 pm
Crackers wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 6:16 pm
NIGHTLIGHT wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 5:16 pm Hinckley said the said the CURRENT practice of polygamy is not doctrinal....perhaps you folks should read the transcript again(this time without emo goggles)

You anti pluar marriage crowd have a strange spirit about your words when you speak on this subject...it cool....I also say/do dumb crap (a lot). I forgive your hyper emotional thoughtprocess on this subject.
------------------------

If our church does K-12 schoolI I will be soooooooo grateful!!!! I don't want my baby son(20 months) to attend public school....and I can't afford private school. Our plan was homeschool but this sound much better!!!
Um. Incorrect. He said he condemns it as a practice because he thinks it is not doctrinal. Why don't you go listen to it again? Sorry, was that too hyperemotional? I think I was at least cool-headed enough to get my spelling and grammar right.
Lol....ouch

My spelling and grammar are often careless... plus it's hard to type on my phone at work..... But assume what you will...

I can post the transcript for you..... maybe you can work on your comprehension while I practice proper grammar.

Larry King was asking him to condemn the current practice of polygamy.... and he did

Sorry, pet peeve, but I know how it is with phones. Yes, let's dissect the transcript. I can't now... on my phone.

Posted: **September 24th, 2018, 6:37 pm**

With all due respect, I could say the same to you. I don't mean to sound zealous or confrontational, I have spent years studying and praying about this very topic. I know my answer is from God himself. I do not know where your answer is from, D&C 132 and Jacob 2 clearly contradict. Someone someday will be able to answer for that contradiction. What I do know is that I believe the Book of Mormon to be the most correct, just as Ezra Taft Benson said. He had access to the D&C and did not say it was the most correct book, even though it was written modernly with no need for translation.

Many in the church believe as I do. I can believe the prophets in the early church were just as much prophets in the Old Testament. Both groups of men had human frailties and sins. We just don't dissect the sins of Joseph the same way we do the sins of Jonah, I believe if we did there would be much to learn.

The gospel is about trusting in God instead of the arm of flesh. I believe the truth is there for all who honestly seek it.

Baurak Ale wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 6:06 pm
mtm411 wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 5:40 pm I had the opposite experience. I felt very clearly that it was never God's way and a mistake and felt the spirit burning. Finally my heart and mind could reconcile and I could still believe in a just and loving God and an afterlife I would want to be in.

Durzan wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 12:07 pm For some reason, I did a verse by verse analysis on Section 132 a couple months ago. The conclusion that I came to was that it was indeed inspired of God, and not long after I felt the burning in the bosom and the confirmation of the Spirit. I have developed a testimony of polygamy, when I was unsure of it before, and at times I thought it despicable. What I had once thought to be a

Now I realized that the whole issue is a complicated matter. Remember that God's ways are not our ways Though Polygamy seems to contradict much of our doctrine and beliefs, I can assure you with a full heart and contrite spirit that there are reasons why the commandment to restore plural marriage in the early days of the church was indeed of God.

I, on the other hand, have come to a knowledge by revelation from God that polygamy is of God and that D&C 132 is divinely inspired scripture. Mtm411, I plead with you to consider that your experience may have been a product of your own zeal for what sits best with your notions of eternity instead of the spirit. I can say that, having been deceived by my own zeal in like manner in the past: it felt like the spirit but contradicted the scriptures. It’s been a long path, but the Lord help me better differentiate His spirit from my own. That may be a hard saying, but I stand by the prophets Joseph and Brigham (and Hyrum, and Heber, etc) that the revelation and the practice it describes is of God. So many people here are falling for the arguments put forth in their day against the truth, which they defended with honesty. If we don’t believe them about the origins of D&C 132, and think they were acting as natural men pursuing women, then why not go and join the Community of Christ? They teach what you claim. The reason we don’t do this is because we have a witness that the priesthood is with the church and that President Nelson is a true prophet. Study D&C 132 in fasting and prayer with a heart open to believing and you too can come to know the truth of it. The questions and problems of the Old Testament become clear and melt away in this light (the claim that it always ends in disaster is a lie based on selective, cursory research coupled with Victorian sentimentality; Abraham only had two wives? No [see Genesis 25:6 for example]). Most of all, you can come to actually know the God we worship and His only begotten son.

Posted: **September 24th, 2018, 6:40 pm**

I think a lot of men in the church use the logic that men would really like multiple sexual partners, so polygamy makes sense to them. In doing so, they leave out the fact that women would be crushed emotionally by this system as our fore-mothers were. Women alone, in constant competition with each other, banished to be cared for sons instead of husbands in our old age as our husbands seek out younger women. Fearing to speak out, lest we get shunned by our communities and abandoned by even our children.

How is marriage supposed to be two being of one flesh, or a man cleave to his wife? The New Testament and Book of Mormon advocate for traditional marriage.

Posted: **September 24th, 2018, 6:44 pm**

https://www.gregtrimble.com/what-every- ... -polygamy/

Posted: **September 24th, 2018, 6:55 pm**

I can agree with this, Juliet, I think that is a beautiful compromise. I do think there will be some exceptions for men and women who had more than one spouse on earth and perhaps other special cases.

Juliet wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 6:30 pm Maybe if polygamy is not right for your soul path, the Holy Spirit would testify against it. If there was an element of it in your soul path, then maybe the Holy Spirit would testify for it.

My understanding is it isn't the blanket protocol in heaven. The way we are created is a man and his spiritual half, his woman. That is the protocol.

But just like it is protocol for most people to have a brain that functions, some people have brain damage. If technology were able to take someone's brain and use it to hook it up to the brain damaged person's brain so the person could experience a functioning body, then, under ethical conditions where someone with much love involved could do that for someone else, then maybe they would.

From what the Spirit teaches me, the situation is not standard across the board and most people should be getting the importance of one man and one woman loving each other and dedicated to each other. That is the spirit of the law and that is what we ought to strive for both in this life and in the next.

Posted: **September 24th, 2018, 7:03 pm**

mtm411 wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 6:37 pm With all due respect, I could say the same to you. I don't mean to sound zealous or confrontational, I have spent years studying and praying about this very topic. I know my answer is from God himself. I do not know where your answer is from, D&C 132 and Jacob 2 clearly contradict. Someone someday will be able to answer for that contradiction. What I do know is that I believe the Book of Mormon to be the most correct, just as Ezra Taft Benson said. He had access to the D&C and did not say it was the most correct book, even though it was written modernly with no need for translation.

Many in the church believe as I do. I can believe the prophets in the early church were just as much prophets in the Old Testament. Both groups of men had human frailties and sins. We just don't dissect the sins of Joseph the same way we do the sins of Jonah, I believe if we did there would be much to learn.

The gospel is about trusting in God instead of the arm of flesh. I believe the truth is there for all who honestly seek it.

Baurak Ale wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 6:06 pm
mtm411 wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 5:40 pm I had the opposite experience. I felt very clearly that it was never God's way and a mistake and felt the spirit burning. Finally my heart and mind could reconcile and I could still believe in a just and loving God and an afterlife I would want to be in.

Durzan wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 12:07 pm For some reason, I did a verse by verse analysis on Section 132 a couple months ago. The conclusion that I came to was that it was indeed inspired of God, and not long after I felt the burning in the bosom and the confirmation of the Spirit. I have developed a testimony of polygamy, when I was unsure of it before, and at times I thought it despicable. What I had once thought to be a

Now I realized that the whole issue is a complicated matter. Remember that God's ways are not our ways Though Polygamy seems to contradict much of our doctrine and beliefs, I can assure you with a full heart and contrite spirit that there are reasons why the commandment to restore plural marriage in the early days of the church was indeed of God.

I, on the other hand, have come to a knowledge by revelation from God that polygamy is of God and that D&C 132 is divinely inspired scripture. Mtm411, I plead with you to consider that your experience may have been a product of your own zeal for what sits best with your notions of eternity instead of the spirit. I can say that, having been deceived by my own zeal in like manner in the past: it felt like the spirit but contradicted the scriptures. It’s been a long path, but the Lord help me better differentiate His spirit from my own. That may be a hard saying, but I stand by the prophets Joseph and Brigham (and Hyrum, and Heber, etc) that the revelation and the practice it describes is of God. So many people here are falling for the arguments put forth in their day against the truth, which they defended with honesty. If we don’t believe them about the origins of D&C 132, and think they were acting as natural men pursuing women, then why not go and join the Community of Christ? They teach what you claim. The reason we don’t do this is because we have a witness that the priesthood is with the church and that President Nelson is a true prophet. Study D&C 132 in fasting and prayer with a heart open to believing and you too can come to know the truth of it. The questions and problems of the Old Testament become clear and melt away in this light (the claim that it always ends in disaster is a lie based on selective, cursory research coupled with Victorian sentimentality; Abraham only had two wives? No [see Genesis 25:6 for example]). Most of all, you can come to actually know the God we worship and His only begotten son.

When contraries are proven, truth is discovered. What appears to us to be contradictions in scripture are never truly so if we have our hearts open to believing that the Book of Mormon is of God just as the D&C is of God just as the POGP is of God, etc. Have you never had to take a passage in the Bible that contradicts with the Book of Mormon and show someone how they do not in actuality contradict? If so, then you should be able to see how there’s always more to the story, rather than assuming the newer stuff is faulty.

So how do we reconcile the passage in Jacob 2 with the passage in D&C 132? If we are a believing people, then this is our homework. I can testify that there is an answer and it is a principle at play all throughout the recorded dealings between God and man (aka scriptures).

Do not cast away the pearl that is D&C 132 just because you doubt what it says. Where in scriptures does it say that everything that is true will agree with our feelings and sensibilities? Even Jonah, whom you referenced, knew better than to make that claim.

Posted: **September 24th, 2018, 7:27 pm**

Here are the only three facts I know about Polygamy:

1) I'm too poor to afford it.
2) Women are too territorial for me to want to try it.
3) This thread was not about Polygamy.

*** This post is brought to you by the number 4,000.

Posted: **September 24th, 2018, 7:34 pm**

Col. Flagg wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 12:14 pm
Durzan wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 12:07 pm I did a verse by verse analysis on Section 132 a couple months ago. The conclusion that I came to was that it was indeed inspired of God. I have developed a testimony of polygamy, when I was unsure of it before, and at times I thought it despicable. Now I realized that the whole issue is a complicated matter.
Anyone who actually thinks God was prepared to 'destroy' Emma Smith, one of the most honorable, classiest and noble women the church has ever had if she didn't give in to a practice that makes property out of women which is abominable in the sight of God, needs to seriously re-evaluate who God is and how precious the feelings and emotions of his daughters are to him.

Durzan... section 132 was written 10 years after Joseph's death - it did not come from Joseph or God.

You mean the same God that turned a woman into a pillar of salt for looking?

Posted: **September 24th, 2018, 7:42 pm**

Col. Flagg wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 4:27 pm
Robin Hood wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 3:19 pm
Col. Flagg wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 1:03 pm
Satan couldn't have devised a better tactic to destroy the family unit and plan of salvation than something as awful as polygamy.
While it's obvious you are very much against polygamy, your statement above is clearly ridiculous. My advice... think about what you're were saying before you click "submit".
Why is it ridiculous? And don't patronize me RH... I'm no fool.

"Because 'half a dad' is worse than none." How's that for starters?

P.S. Which polygamy thread do you want to resurrect? No need, I just started it for everyone who wants to discuss... Hopefully we can get back to the OP.

Posted: **September 24th, 2018, 7:44 pm**

Posted: **September 24th, 2018, 8:11 pm**

Generally not too surprised or amazed at the "BIIIIIIG" changes that are announced and come.
However, given the comparisons so far, it makes me wonder.

P.S. "Temple marriages", a big change? I haven't even heard of one of those for years!

Posted: **September 24th, 2018, 8:41 pm**

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 7:27 pm Here are the only three facts I know about Polygamy:

1) I'm too poor to afford it.
2) Women are too territorial for me to want to try it.
3) This thread was not about Polygamy.

*** This post is brought to you by the number 4,000.

Grats! woot woot

Posted: **September 24th, 2018, 8:42 pm**

My off the wall prediction:
Gay convents

Posted: **September 24th, 2018, 9:00 pm**

Seriously, I can see the church not doing marriage in the temple and requiring us to be civilly married before getting sealed. I wouldn't be suprised if the rumors surrounding that change in policy was indeed true and would be announced in GC this october.

Posted: **September 24th, 2018, 10:01 pm**

Ok, this is so Mormon telephone game but my husband’s coworker was told by someone who was at a stake conference with elder Anderson this weekend that he had been hearing rumors we were going to a two hour block. He said he could say absolutely that that was not going to happen.

Haha!! That sounds rediculous! I know:)

Posted: **September 24th, 2018, 10:52 pm**

Switching from the KJV to the JST.

Posted: **September 25th, 2018, 12:35 am**

Col. Flagg wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 5:17 pm
Robin Hood wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 4:47 pm
Col. Flagg wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 4:27 pm
Robin Hood wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 3:19 pm

While it's obvious you are very much against polygamy, your statement above is clearly ridiculous. My advice... think about what you're were saying before you click "submit".
Why is it ridiculous? And don't patronize me RH... I'm no fool.
Your claim is that Satan couldn't have devised a better tactic to destroy the family unit...
Seriously?
Have you ever heard of gay marriage?
And your statement about not being a fool is clearly questionable if you are contending that polygamy is worse.
So Satan is capable of changing someone's sexual preference? And how many gay people are there compared to heterosexuals? 4 in 100 Americans identify as having homosexual tendencies and it is substantially lower than that inside the church.

... and your point is?

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