LDS Freedom Forum

I read that guns sales in the US is rocketing. We Brits aren't allowed to own guns, so I was thnking about alternative means of defence when society breaks down. I decided that a compound bow and plenty of field arrows is better than nothing; I'm also thinking of buying a powerful crossbow. What are your thoughts?

Very good ideas. Make sure you have plenty of knives and learn how to use them. Also if you can, get 17% percent pepper/bear spray, not the weak 10% stuff sold in stores. Google 17% pepper or bear spray and research it and where to get it online. It will take out 5-6 men easy and render them useless. Then you can cut them up with your knives. Maybe get a good sword too. Don't forget you can always throw rocks too!!!!

A wrist rocket and some ball bearings can do some serious damage!

Household ammonia squirted in someone's face from a plastic squeeze bottle (nasal spray bottle) with the stem removed can be devistating, and can be carried in a pocket. Larger spray bottles

Ball bearings or marbles from a well made sling shot

I guess you are pretty defenseless against an intruder with a gun.

Are antique muzzle loaders prohibited now in the UK?

I remember when I was very young, Americans were asked to donate guns to "help defend an English home". Some Americans responded. What became of all those guns? Collected and given the deep six after WW2 is what I read.

Nunchucks skills and bow hunting skills are vital.

Partly because girls only like guys with skills.

Myself, I'm pretty good with a bow staff.

jbalm wrote:Nunchucks skills and bow hunting skills are vital.

Partly because girls only like guys with skills.

Myself, I'm pretty good with a bow staff.

You ever take your bike off any sweet jumps?

jbalm wrote:Nunchucks skills and bow hunting skills are vital.

Partly because girls only like guys with skills.

Myself, I'm pretty good with a bow staff.

Knock it off Jackie, this is serious stuff.
Can a nunchuck do this??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG91VCdK_vw

Yeah, but why is he using a shotgun to kill it? Silly Lyle.

Things I've seen in my travels through the world that might help with protecting property, perhaps yourself or family. But you'll only want to use these methods in dire emergencies, deactivating these things is simple if built right, if not you may find yourself hanging from them. Example, hang trebble fish hooks off 50lb test line, preferable black, from a solid board above or around an entrance area, your door or window. Several fish hooks embedded in a guys arm or face wiil stop him long enough allowing for more "dramatic" actions. If you use several hanging hooks, his thrashing around will hook him some more. Dip the hooks in formic acid, lye or something a bit more drastic, and let dry, adds to the hurt, burns like hell!

Dramatic actions that are most effective involve learning how to use things like claw hammers as a club. My favorite is a rock pick. You'll get an intruders attention very fast. Your purpose is to get his mind off what he was intending to do, and put his attention, his thoughts onto his hurt, including your ability to cause him more hurt. Never throw a weapon at an intruder, and always point it at his face, preferable his eyes, for example a short 4 foot long spear made out of a good sharp knife and a hardwood broom stick. I made mine out of an old bayonet. I removed the handle, cut a slot in the end of the broom stick, bolted it in and wrapped it with wet rawhide. I also have a wrist loop on the non business end so I can't lose it. Scary looking thing-----

If your are forced to attack anyone with a knife go after any part of his body as a target, for example if all you can get at is an arm, slash it, don't stab, you need to hurt him, his pain is your weapon, hurt him, slash him, hands, arms, legs, any part of the body until he runs or you get a chance at a vital target. A knife in the eye is pretty effective, as is that fish hook. Most importantly, you show no quarter. Make him understand you intend on killing him!

You can't be afraid to put some hurt on an attacker, if your defending you and yours you do what it takes.--- if you must, Feel bad afterwards!

Bob

n8-r wrote:Very good ideas. Make sure you have plenty of knives and learn how to use them. Also if you can, get 17% percent pepper/bear spray, not the weak 10% stuff sold in stores. Google 17% pepper or bear spray and research it and where to get it online. It will take out 5-6 men easy and render them useless. Then you can cut them up with your knives. Maybe get a good sword too. Don't forget you can always throw rocks too!!!!

Pepper spray and stun guns are highly illegal in the UK. Defending oneself against attackers and burglars is likely to get you into trouble over here. It's a terrible state of affairs. There have been loads of cases where people have used force to protect their homes, then been arrested for their efforts. The law definitely protects criminals in the UK. I think this is done deliberately.

I'm hoping that a bow or a crossbow will make an intruder think before proceeding. Perhaps it will be a suitable deterent. If I shot a burglar who had a knife, I'd expect to go to prison; that's just the way it is in the UK. An Englishman's home used to be his castle. We had Magna Carta, English common law, the Bill of Rights etc, but that has almost disappeared. We are now living in a socialist state of the EU.

Obviously it will be very different when society completely breaks down. I want to have an option to defend my family and property from a distance. I'd be kicking myself if I didn't plan for this before shops sell out of everything and money is worthless.

Shotguns, rifles and muzzle loaders are legal in the UK, but you need a licence. Obtaining a licence is difficult. You have to have home inspections by the police, have a legitimate use for the weapons (club membership) etc. All very strict and controlled. Bows and crossbows don't require licensing just yet. The Scottish government wants to ban airguns.

The mainstream media has already said that crime will increase as the recession deepens. Those of us with food storage, gold etc need to be able to protect ourselves from the mobs. I do take comfort that the Lord will protect those who were faithful and heeded his warnings to get prepared, but I want to do something practical to ensure that I can fend off intruders. I'm also going to buy a machette because they look scary.

BTW, how are we expected to go and live in the wilderness with our food storage? A year's supply for two people weighs well over a ton. Do you think food storage is for use within the home?

BTW, how are we expected to go and live in the wilderness with our food storage?

The supposed requirement for everyone to go live in the wilderness is just speculation.

A year's supply for two people weighs well over a ton. Do you think food storage is for use within the home?

Probably.

So, for those of you with old guns that government could have no knowledge of, have you considered hiding them if a ban became reality in the states?

I'm just thinking that you could use those really big mylar bags and seal them with oxy packs and moisture absorbers, and maybe then put them in a wooden box, hollow log, or bury them somewhere? Would they be protected enough that way?

ChelC wrote:So, for those of you with old guns that government could have no knowledge of, have you considered hiding them if a ban became reality in the states?

I'm just thinking that you could use those really big mylar bags and seal them with oxy packs and moisture absorbers, and maybe then put them in a wooden box, hollow log, or bury them somewhere? Would they be protected enough that way?

You can also grease them up before wrapping them in bags and burying them.

jbalm wrote:

BTW, how are we expected to go and live in the wilderness with our food storage?

The supposed requirement for everyone to go live in the wilderness is just speculation.

A year's supply for two people weighs well over a ton. Do you think food storage is for use within the home?

Probably.

I was thinking about this earlier today, and I can't imagine half of my ward doing very well at an organised over night camp in the summer, let alone treking into the Scottish mountains at this time of the year and surviving for any length of time. There are lots of elderly who can barely walk.

I'm just thinking that you could use those really big mylar bags and seal them with oxy packs and moisture absorbers, and maybe then put them in a wooden box, hollow log, or bury them somewhere? Would they be protected enough that way?

A four foot section of 8" PVC pipe could hold several rifles and the ends can be sealed up in about 30 seconds. Mylar is kind of fragile.

Yeah, good point. Also, is there any way to hide metal from metal detectors? What depth do they work to? Too bad our guns are all new. Too too bad.

ChelC wrote:So, for those of you with old guns that government could have no knowledge of, have you considered hiding them if a ban became reality in the states?

If asked to turn my gun in I would get rid of it.... in the way jbalm recommended. But honestly, if everyone turns in their gun but you, how are you going to use it? If you use it once you'd have plenty of neighbors calling 911 requesting the po-lice make a visit. Guns can be loud. People are tattle tells.

shadow wrote:

ChelC wrote:So, for those of you with old guns that government could have no knowledge of, have you considered hiding them if a ban became reality in the states?

If asked to turn my gun in I would get rid of it.... in the way jbalm recommended. But honestly, if everyone turns in their gun but you, how are you going to use it? If you use it once you'd have plenty of neighbors calling 911 requesting the po-lice make a visit. Guns can be loud. People are tattle tells.

For a long time I have thought a buried weapon is useless. If they come for our personal weapons, which we have the God given right to have, I think we should use them, not bury them. We have always sent our troops to go fight and die for our rights. Maybe we should do likewise so we aren't hypocrites.

tick wrote:A wrist rocket and some ball bearings can do some serious damage!

As a young kid, I defended myself using a wristrocked and a rock against a larger kid armed with a pellet rifle. I was holding the wrist rocked a few feet from his head while retreating toward my home. He was yelling to his friend walking down the opposite side of the street to shoot me with his pellet rifle. I told his friend that if he shot at me, I would let his friend have it. Finally, the scumbag lunged at me and I let him have it with the full force of the wrist rocket. It wasn't terribly effective. I must not have hit him well. I suppose a wrist rocket is better than a kick in the pants, though I wouldn't swear by it. Maybe I just used it inneffectively because I was a little kid.

I wouldn't trust my family’s safety with a wrist rocket, even though I know how to use one. A claw hammer, large knife, short spear in one hand, a razor sharp small blade in the other, something in my hands I have complete control over. If the idiot grabs my large weapon I slash his hand or arm with the smaller weapon. Learning how to slash with a couple of knives is a lot easier then learning nunchucks. Like as not after being slashed he'll run, being slashed hurts-- bad, very painful. If he's stupid enough to stick around then he dies, it’s that simple.

I did martial arts while on Okinawa! My Japanese instructor who fought for Japan during WW2 was pretty darn good. When I told him my Dad had taken part in the invasion of Okinawa he got tears in his eyes, thinking he might have been responsible for my fathers death. I had to quickly explain my Father didn't die while on Okinawa, wasn't even wounded, and held no anger towards the Japanese soldier, because like him, they were simply following orders.

My instructor took a lot of time explaining why different swinging weapons were pretty much useless. Experts made them look effective, but it took years to become an expert. Best to use your hands, feet and grasping weapons, develop quick hands, quick feet, quick moves. We did learn a form of stick fighting, much like the fighting done in the movie Samurai. But swinging sticks takes room, pretty much useless in tight quarters such as a hall way.

Four times in my life I’ve had to defend myself with martial arts, each time the fool who challenged me went down with my first hit. Twice with palm heal strikes to the base of the nose and once with a quick kick to the family jewels. The fourth time involved a metal flashlight being swung at me, I caught it and put the guy down with a fist in the ribs. Dad always taught me, if you have to fight, make sure you get the first hit in, like as not there won’t be a second. He’s been right four times. Not that I initiated the attack, each time I blocked the first blow at the same time delivered my first blow. In martial arts your taught to attack the most available target.

However, our English friend in the Isles needs good information. I suggest any good system of martial arts. With Karate, they’re pretty much all the same, just different teaching techniques. What I learned on Okinawa was “taught” quite different then the Kenpo Karate my 4 boys have their black belts in. But in the end the moves, the strikes, the hits and kicks were the same. My instructor also taught me Aikido, which I taught to my boys, a very valuable form of martial arts.

Kenpo is more violent then the karate I learned, your taught to deliver more hits, just one is not sufficient in Kenpo. I agree with that.

But I like Nephi have “begun to be old” I can still snatch a quarter out of “most” peoples hands, and I can still hit pretty hard. But it’s getting time to carry a more efficient weapon then my hands and feet. So I carry.

Certain forms of Karate are very intense , other forms are more relaxed, but the end result is the same, pick the form your most comfortable with.

Bob

M249Gunner wrote:

shadow wrote:

ChelC wrote:So, for those of you with old guns that government could have no knowledge of, have you considered hiding them if a ban became reality in the states?

If asked to turn my gun in I would get rid of it.... in the way jbalm recommended. But honestly, if everyone turns in their gun but you, how are you going to use it? If you use it once you'd have plenty of neighbors calling 911 requesting the po-lice make a visit. Guns can be loud. People are tattle tells.

For a long time I have thought a buried weapon is useless. If they come for our personal weapons, which we have the God given right to have, I think we should use them, not bury them. We have always sent our troops to go fight and die for our rights. Maybe we should do likewise so we aren't hypocrites.

They may avoid detection when someone comes to look, but how can you effectively use them on an intruder if you have to get access to the shovel first and then dig them up?
It may be of benefit as additional protection at some point?

I dehydrated some jalepenos once and then put them in a blender. The dust from the blender blurried my vision for a while. Imagine that with Habeneros. Maybe loaded habenero dust into a hollowed egg or something? Or a gun that is pumped and uses air pressure to shot towards the enemy? Perhaps CO2 paintball guns? a cloud of Habenero dust could make a large group of people struggle to see for some time if it could be projected effectively? Any ideas? It would likely be more effective than Bear Spray if it had the right way to use it. I imagine even having some High powered squirt guns from WalMart if they will work with Habenero PEPPER JUICE. HMMM...

I have alos wanted a Compound Bow and CrossBow, however the crossbow would be easier to travel with and have more amo would it not?

You guys are sure teaching me a lot of warped things I've never thought much about.

I'm sure there are a lot of creative weapons out there. The hollowed egg idea isn't bad if you weighted them enough to use a slingshot, or you may be the second victim. By the way, the bury the gun idea isn't intended for home intruders, but actually a store for when things turn to anarchy.

Understand what you may be confronted with in resisting home invasion, either by Feds, foreign troops, or thieves. Occasional home invasions in the greater Phoenix area are becoming more aggressive, and the invaders are increasingly equipped with more protective gear as well as more firepower. And in recent incidents here, the invaders could not be distinguished in the dark from police or military. Waco and Ruby Ridge should give us an idea of what our resistance would lead to. The sort of confrontations we might imagine would take on a different prespective if children are caught in the middle.

ChelC wrote:Yeah, good point. Also, is there any way to hide metal from metal detectors? What depth do they work to? Too bad our guns are all new. Too too bad.

You coud bury then in metal pipes, then if anyone went to dig them up it'll just look like an old drain.