The tide is turning...

[Thinker]

I’m aware of some parents who would not attend their daughters wedding (man & woman) because she was not getting married in the temple.

That is so sad. I would know without doubt that my parents did not love me if they did this.

And yet, I did similar to my dad and siblings. I essentially chose the church over them. I chose to get married in the temple which rejected them from attending. When I told a non-member friend that, she couldn’t believe a church would be so exclusive for a wedding.

[Thinker]

You love God, you do your best to love your child, but in no way are you required to give your child the acceptance they want, as they want it, as terms of your love, any more than your child is obligated to keep your standards as terms of receiving your love.

This debate requires that the gay person has the right to demand acceptance, or the parent is accused of rejecting them. The child, gay or not does not get to set the terms of what constitutes an acceptable love. They have the right to reject a parents love, but they do not have the right to dictate to another the terms of that love. What a gay child cannot do, what any child cannot do righteously, is to reject a parents love as it is, and claim rejection, because it doesn't come in the way they want it. That is the very height of hypocrisy.

At the core of this whole debate is another principle I think is vital. All of scripture commands us to give love. Nowhere does it instruct us to find a situation or circumstance that we 'feel' loved and supported in. We don't get to set the terms of what we receive from others. We can take it or leave it. The great commandment is to GIVE love.

We are blessed and expanded based on what love we 'give', not based on what love we 'get'. Being loved is a nice bonus in life, but, as in this case, if we are waiting expectantly to be loved in the way we want, can become a trap, and usually one full of manipulation.

When we want to get love to feel complete, we are ripe for the adversary to tempt us in ways that are almost impossible to avoid. When we are fixed on the commandment to 'give' love, we are going to be blessed by God with amazing and virtuous results.

This whole discussion is off center because it is based on the need for the straight community to accept and even at times celebrate the gay community in what ever way the gay community feel they want, or it is posed as a rejection, as hate, as not loving, etc.

The great commandment again is to love... give love... not to try and find a love to fill your cup.

Luke 6: 38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again." If we wait around to have our cup filled by demanding a certain level, pattern or type of love from others, we will inevitably remain a parched and withered soul.

Many good points.

What does it mean to love?
Does love mean kissing up to someone to avoid offending them as they hurt themselves? Most would agree that is not love.

Love is appreciating what is while striving for what’s best.
It is a known statistical fact that homosexual practices tend to cause mental and physical health problems, according to nation-wide (USCDC) health reports. It is cruel - not loving - to encourage or support behavior known to be harmful.

[Fiannan]

I have noted that Noah may have only written down his immediate family as survivors but he may have not cared about, or known about, other survivors and areas of land not destroyed.

Fascinating! I have wondered if Noah was really the only one. With so many societies having a Noah-figure during a great flood, I'd always thought all of the stories and myths pointed back to Noah. Recently, though, I wondered if there were more. After all, this is a huge planet.

We humans are so ego-centric. I wonder how many of us would "fly to pieces like glass" if we discovered that God spoke to a whole lot more groups/families than how many He appears to interact with in scriptures or even in our recent (post-Christ, as well as LDS) history.

The Irish have a tradition that one of Noah's sons not mentioned in the Bible had created a boat and took women aboard it and survived the flood. They landed in what is now known as Ireland.

We know that Noah had a whole lot of brothers and sisters. Noah was preserved because he was both a good man and his DNA was pure - not mixed with any other species perhaps as that was going on during his era (if we are to believe the Book of Jasher or many ancient texts that were cited by Helena Blavatsky). Are we to believe that no other members of the elite, as Noah was, decided to take precautions due to his warnings? After all, I think today that way more unrighteous people are prepared for social collapse and destruction than righteous people.

[gradles21]

From Susie Augenstein's new FB page called Let's Love Better where she has compiled her stories about LDS LGBTQ people and their life journeys:

"I met a man very soon after that. I thought it was a sign from God that I should marry in the temple. We were engaged 2 months later, and married 4 months after that. We moved to Salt Lake (again) for him to attend the University of Utah. I realized I was gay, not bisexual. I cried almost every single day. I felt happy for maybe the first few days, thinking that I did the right thing by getting married in the temple. I felt so trapped in a relationship that I felt no happiness in. There was more going on than just my lack of physical attraction, and in a way, I felt betrayed that God hadn’t “fixed” me. I prayed, read my scriptures, and went to the temple as often as I could. I was depressed and seriously considered suicide. I read the entire mormonandgay website the day it came out. I read every article on lds.org that had to do with being gay. I consulted with my bishop, and a marriage counselor. My bishop said to me, “There is nothing wrong with accepting and loving yourself as God made you.” The marriage counselor he referred me to, who is also LDS, told me, “The church needs to realize that there is nothing wrong with a lesbian couple who want to raise kids, even in the church. If that’s where your heart is, that’s where you should be.” That advice was relieving and heartbreaking. I didn’t know what to do. I was not happy in my marriage, and I didn’t think I would be happy outside of the church. Suicide still seemed like the best way to be free from the hell I felt trapped in. Three and a half months after we were married, we decided to split."

One thing that I haven't seen anyone mention is the fact the if this story is true, both the bishop and the counselor should both be disciplined by the church. To me, encouraging someone to break their temple covenants is grounds for excommunication.

This 2nd estate that we're in is about accepting the atonement, repenting, keeping his commandments and making and KEEPING covenants with the Lord. Acting on same sex attraction will literally dam you in this process, no lds person who understands the atonement should encourage anyone no matter their relation to the person to act on this sin. They should encourage those to put off temporary pleasure and to keep their eye on the prize, which is exaltation.

I have seen a few people mention that they hope God can work with these people struggling with homosexuality, but that's not how the atonement works. God doesn't have that option or he would cease to be God, he cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.

[WildOliveBranch]

If you take 100 gay people, how many will be celibate and stay active in the Church?

I think you are concerned that the Church will change, I don't see that happening.

What do you think of the OP?

If people want to be gay, they will.

What do you want to be done to gay people?

Obviously.... What do YOU FEEL about the OP?

what the heck is the "OP"? I tried to look it up & found nothing conclusive... o, do you mean "original post"? sorry, that took me a while...

[nightlight]

What do you think of the OP?

If people want to be gay, they will.

What do you want to be done to gay people?

Obviously.... What do YOU FEEL about the OP?

what the heck is the "OP"? I tried to look it up & found nothing conclusive... o, do you mean "original post"? sorry, that took me a while...

Yes, original post

[Silver Pie]

Yes. That's putting the shoe on the other foot - and I used to think nothing of it. In fact, it never occurred to me that God might want people married in a public ceremony and a temple sealing could come later. Maybe God isn't as willing to break hearts as we are.

I’m aware of some parents who would not attend their daughters wedding (man & woman) because she was not getting married in the temple.

That is so sad. I would know without doubt that my parents did not love me if they did this.

And yet, I did similar to my dad and siblings. I essentially chose the church over them. I chose to get married in the temple which rejected them from attending. When I told a non-member friend that, she couldn’t believe a church would be so exclusive for a wedding.

[Silver Pie]

The Irish have a tradition that one of Noah's sons not mentioned in the Bible had created a boat and took women aboard it and survived the flood. They landed in what is now known as Ireland.

We know that Noah had a whole lot of brothers and sisters. Noah was preserved because he was both a good man and his DNA was pure - not mixed with any other species perhaps as that was going on during his era (if we are to believe the Book of Jasher or many ancient texts that were cited by Helena Blavatsky). Are we to believe that no other members of the elite, as Noah was, decided to take precautions due to his warnings? After all, I think today that way more unrighteous people are prepared for social collapse and destruction than righteous people.

One of my genealogical lines (it may be the Irish) goes back to one of Noah's sons - one not mentioned in the Bible. I thought he was probably either Shem or someone born later. I have never heard of that tradition you mentioned. It's something to think about.

[Silver Pie]

I have seen a few people mention that they hope God can work with these people struggling with homosexuality, but that's not how the atonement works. God doesn't have that option or he would cease to be God, he cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.

Sigh.

I'm glad I know instead of hope.

Sigh.

[mgridle1]

-----
I made a short trip to Utah and was invited to Friday lunch by Elder Claudio Costa (he came to my stake’s conference last November).

We spoke about a number of things, and one I brought up was the topic of LGBTQ+ members (like me) and the need to do better.

He agreed. Said ‘the brethren’ speak about this and are trying to do a lot of training of bishops and Stake presidents. And how there are 27,000 gays who live in Salt Lake City and are good neighbors, that they and the Church get along fine (I’m not sure if the local gay community would describe it that way; but I appreciated his idea that we’re all compatible and can make respectful and loving neighbors).

I commented that it’s not just that leaders need to be kinder, but that the messages we hear at church are hard. That I’m included in God’s plan, but not the Church’s version of that plan, and their vision of it needs to expand.

His response was that as a gay man I’m not seen in The Plan as the church understands it, “and yet, here you are.”

He shared his belief that a lot of the things we struggle to understand will be made clear during the Millenium and blessings will be spread to many.

I’m not saying that he and I see eye-to-eye on things, like in how we understand the varieties of importance of queerness and the queer experience, or what changes need to be made or the time frame for those changes. This was a friendly lunch meeting and I am thankful for his time and the tone. I appreciated him saying that he didn’t know, and that he sees me as a faithful person, just as faithful as him or any other general authority. And that he felt positively about the lgbt community in Sat Lake and thencity has become a place of safety for people around the state.

—————————————————————

He was very personable and friendly, invited me back but asked if I could arrange to come a day earlier because on Thursdays the cafeteria serves prime rib.

—————————————————————

He offered to show me the tunnels that the general authorities use to go between the admin building and the temple. I enthusiastically accepted his offer.

Call me underwhelmed. The “tunnels” turned out to be one large underground parking lot. It was huge! Stretching from the Lion House, Church Admin Bldg, Joseph Smith Memorial Bldg, Tabernacle and Salt Lake Temple, Relief Society Bldg, and the Church Office Bldg. And it was clean, in fact, look like it had been waxed and polished. I wish I’d taken a picture of it.

Because it’s so big, there were golf carts sitting around as some of the general authorities are a bit frail.
-----

So nice, we have a homosexual man who actively goes on dates with other men, meeting with Elder Costa as an ambassador of sorts.

I'm just curious if I could meet with Elder Costa as a man participating in pornography and get the same treatment.

Let's just roll-out the red-carpet why don't we . . . .

[Robin Hood]

You have postulated that gays are possessed.

Christ said it takes fasting and power to remove evil spirits. Has nothing to do with eating snacks. If someone is possessed, they don’t have a choice.

So what is it, are gays possessed or not?

Yes they are.
They are manipulated by unclean spirits.

[gradles21]

I have seen a few people mention that they hope God can work with these people struggling with homosexuality, but that's not how the atonement works. God doesn't have that option or he would cease to be God, he cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.

Sigh.

I'm glad I know instead of hope.

Sigh.

Again I say that's not how the atonement works. God does not forgive sin, doesn't matter what that sin is. If God himself could forgive sin then there would be no point in him sending his son to atone for us.

[Thinker]

I have seen a few people mention that they hope God can work with these people struggling with homosexuality, but that's not how the atonement works. God doesn't have that option or he would cease to be God, he cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.

Sigh.

I'm glad I know instead of hope.

Sigh.

Again I say that's not how the atonement works. God does not forgive sin, doesn't matter what that sin is. If God himself could forgive sin then there would be no point in him sending his son to atone for us.

The Catholic church (who tortured & killed for religion) warped Christianity to believe in human sacrifice scapegoating.
Atone= At One...
Which is a more godly way after sinning against someone:
1) Pray that you’re sorry, trust Jesus to handle it and do nothing to make at-one the mistake... or
2) Say sorry to the person you wronged and make at-one however you can?

“Thou shalt not kill.”
“I the Lord will forgive whom I will forgive but of you it is required to forgive all men.”
“Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.”

As far as homosexuality... people are punished by the consequences of their sins, not for them. God doesn’t kick us when we’re down, but God also doesn’t restrict us from suffering the effects of running at a brick wall, so to speak. Homosexual practices are tied statistically to high rates of STDs, AIDs/HIV, mental illness & anal sex complications. Media (mostly leftist) tries to portray sickness as health - but nation-wide health reports are clear: statistically, practicing homosexuality leads to immense suffering. God isn’t punishing - the consequences are.

[mgridle1]

Twilight Zone time . . .ever wonder what it's like to be a sane person in an insane world.
-----------------------
Many of us struggle to know how to show our love and support to our lgbtq brothers and sisters and their families. My feeling is that when we know better we do better. Sometimes just hearing someone’s story is the first place to start. I would like to start introducing you to my friends who are lgbtq or families I love with a lgbtq child. I want you to be able to get to know them the way I know them. I also want you to hear from them first hand on what their worries and concerns are so that we as members of our churches can better show our love to them. Yesterday I had the privilege of attending a 5th Sunday meeting in Bountiful, Utah about how to love and support our lgbtq brothers and sisters better. For two hours we heard amazing talks from the Duessons, (loving parents who lost their gay son to suicide), Kent Carollo, (a wonderful, talented and compassionate gay man), and from the Sweetens, (a Mormon family who have a transgender daughter). I was very touched my the talk gave by my new friend Tiffany Sweeten. Please listen with an open heart and try and walk in the shoes of a mom who loves and honors her daughter.

I would like to introduce myself because there are some here that may not know who we are. My name is Tiffany Sweeten and my husband is Lance. We live in the 10th Ward and have been here for 16 years. We have been married for 24 years and have 3 wonderfully strong daughters and 1 tender-hearted son.
Today I would like to tell you about my oldest daughter Gwen who is 22. From the age of 12 to 16 were the typical moody teenager years, so we thought. There had been several times of having emotional breakdowns and anger with one thing or another. It wasn’t until my daughter was 16 did life really hit a curve in the road. We knew for some time that something was upsetting her but did not know what was wrong. Every time we would try to talk to her about it she would just say that nothing was wrong. She would not open up and tell us what was bothering her. She had been pulling away and wouldn’t talk to us. She had been fighting us about not wanting to go to church and early morning seminary. We found out that she hadn’t been going to seminary and she was getting more and more distant.

One day I asked her to please talk to me and tell me what was going on. We sat and talked, but she wouldn’t tell me what was bothering her. She told me that I had to guess. So, of course I started running every possible scenario through my head. I asked her question after question and every answer was no. When she had finally had enough of my questions and probably fearing that I would never get it right she “came out” to me and told me that she was a female born in males’ body, she was Transgender. This is something that my brain was not prepared to understand or comprehend its meaning.

The whole time we were talking, I had been praying in the back of my mind to say and do the right thing for her. I didn’t want to mess up this important moment by saying the wrong thing.
After our conversation I was a total mess, but I didn’t want it to show so I gave her a big hug and repeatedly thanked her for trusting me enough to tell me what she had been holding inside for such a long time. I told her that we would be there for her as we figured this all out.

After the initial shock of what I just heard, I soon went into panic mode. All I could do is worry about how hard her future would be. I thought about all the hopes and dreams I had for a son’s future. A mission, marriage and children (my grandchildren) that were all melting away. All I was focusing on was what I would lose and everything that could possibly go wrong.

I began praying, bargaining and begging God to fix this. Make her want to feel the way she was born. I was worried about how people would treat her, how people would treat our whole family. Would they think I was a bad mother? That we were bad parents?
The next several months were extremely difficult. Even though I told her we accepted her and would help her through this, I was not ready to let her transition. I wanted her to wait until she was 18 and graduated from high school. I thought that the other kids at school would bully her or she might be in some sort of physical danger. I was stalling, thinking maybe this whole thing was just a faze and she might change her mind. I thought I knew better and I wasn’t ready to lose my son.

Looking back, it wasn’t the kids at school that were the problem. We were her stumbling block. We told her that we accepted her, but our actions turned out to be the opposite. I shared my concerns to Gwen that I felt like I was in mourning. She told me not to mourn. She said, “I’m still alive, but I did need to grieve my son.” The best way I can describe how I felt was that I had a son that had no future and a daughter with no past.

During this time going to church became very difficult. I would cry at the drop of a hat. Every lesson made me feel like I wasn’t a good mother. We had been searching for help and guidance within the church with no answers. We felt completely alone in this journey we were now on. As the months went by, our whole family was feeling the effects of this. The stress was overwhelming for everyone. We went to doctors and counselors all in the attempt to fix our child.

I had been praying and praying but none of my prayers were getting answered and I could not figure out why? One day I realized that my prayers were very selfish. All I wanted was for this trial to go away, but that is NOT the way trials work. I decided right then that I needed to change the way I had been praying. I went in my room, locked the door and got down on my knees and began to pray. This time instead of asking Heavenly Father to fix everything for me, my prayer had changed to asking how I could help my child. I needed to have an open heart and allow Him to guide me through this.
I have never received a clearer answer to a prayer than I did right then on my knees. The answer that I received was not at all what I was expecting.
I was called by name, “Tiffany, you do not have the right to take away her free agency, you just have to love her.”
It hit me so hard that I was taking away from my child one of God’s greatest gift. Free agency.

That same day I told my daughter that we were no longer going to force her to follow the path we thought was right for her. We were going to change our attitude and support her path of transition. My husband and I along with our other 3 children, who were also going through their own journeys, made the decision that we were going to support, accept and love her through this. We were going to use the correct pronouns and whatever else she needed from us.

As the months went by she was able do what she needed to transition to who she felt was inside. The day finally came that she was able to legally change her name and gender. We went with her to the courthouse to meet with the Judge. The judge was very polite and respectful to her and the process was complete. As we walked out of the courthouse, you could literally see the light come back into her eyes. A physical transformation. We finally had our baby back with us!

She is now happily married to a wonderful man who we love very much. We both were very proud to be asked to walk her down the aisle on her wedding day. Everything was perfect.
That is not to say that her life will be easy. I worry every day how people will treat her. If she is safe. If she is happy.
Recently I spoke with her and through pouring tears I told her how sorry that I was that I was not there for her the way I should have been right from the beginning. I appreciate so much the answer she gave me. She said that it was the process I needed to go through to be the person I am today. Now I am one of those “mothers” that so outwardly support the LGBTQ community.

My daughter has taught me more about true Christlike love than I could have learned any other possible way.
Several times throughout my journey people would ask me how I was OK with her transitioning. Well I think back to something my daughter told me. She said that if she was not able to be the person she felt inside she would have considered taking her own life.
When you hear these words, the choice becomes very clear. I would much rather have a happy daughter than a dead son.

In the book, “That We May Be One” by Tom Christopherson, that was published by Deseret Book it states...
Too many families have experienced the devastating loss of a child to suicide. LGBTQ youth have a higher rate of suicide attempts than do heterosexual youth. While the reality is that suicide is the result of many factors, all of us—parents and family members, Young Men and Young Women leaders, bishoprics and Sunday School teachers, all members of the Church—can help reduce at least some of those factors by simply accepting LGBTQ young people for who they are and loving them. It is a matter of life and death that we do so, with urgency!

My message today is simple, it’s all about love. The word love is a noun, but I think it would be more appropriate to change it to a verb an action. To love! To love one another! Which is a commandment that Christ gave to His disciples in John 13:34: A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
We are all children of our Heavenly Father. It is not our place judge other.
As Elder Uchtdorf spoke in the April 2012 conference: The topic in judging others could actually be taught in a two-word sermon. When it comes to hating, gossiping, ignoring, ridiculing, holding grudges or wanting to cause harm please apply the following:
Stop it!

It is that simple. We simply have to stop judging others and replace judgmental thoughts and feelings with a heart full of love for God and His children. God is our Father. We are his children. We are all brothers and sisters. I would like each of you to think about the people that are in your life. Think about those friends, coworkers, neighbors, nieces, nephews or your own children. How will you respond when you find out that someone you love is LGBTQ? And how have you already responded to them if it has already happened? Are you showing true Christ like love? After all we are all children of GOD & GOD does NOT make mistakes.
I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ amen
-----------------
Please God, can we just end it now???

[nightlight]

Twilight Zone time . . .ever wonder what it's like to be a sane person in an insane world.
-----------------------
Many of us struggle to know how to show our love and support to our lgbtq brothers and sisters and their families. My feeling is that when we know better we do better. Sometimes just hearing someone’s story is the first place to start. I would like to start introducing you to my friends who are lgbtq or families I love with a lgbtq child. I want you to be able to get to know them the way I know them. I also want you to hear from them first hand on what their worries and concerns are so that we as members of our churches can better show our love to them. Yesterday I had the privilege of attending a 5th Sunday meeting in Bountiful, Utah about how to love and support our lgbtq brothers and sisters better. For two hours we heard amazing talks from the Duessons, (loving parents who lost their gay son to suicide), Kent Carollo, (a wonderful, talented and compassionate gay man), and from the Sweetens, (a Mormon family who have a transgender daughter). I was very touched my the talk gave by my new friend Tiffany Sweeten. Please listen with an open heart and try and walk in the shoes of a mom who loves and honors her daughter.

I would like to introduce myself because there are some here that may not know who we are. My name is Tiffany Sweeten and my husband is Lance. We live in the 10th Ward and have been here for 16 years. We have been married for 24 years and have 3 wonderfully strong daughters and 1 tender-hearted son.
Today I would like to tell you about my oldest daughter Gwen who is 22. From the age of 12 to 16 were the typical moody teenager years, so we thought. There had been several times of having emotional breakdowns and anger with one thing or another. It wasn’t until my daughter was 16 did life really hit a curve in the road. We knew for some time that something was upsetting her but did not know what was wrong. Every time we would try to talk to her about it she would just say that nothing was wrong. She would not open up and tell us what was bothering her. She had been pulling away and wouldn’t talk to us. She had been fighting us about not wanting to go to church and early morning seminary. We found out that she hadn’t been going to seminary and she was getting more and more distant.

One day I asked her to please talk to me and tell me what was going on. We sat and talked, but she wouldn’t tell me what was bothering her. She told me that I had to guess. So, of course I started running every possible scenario through my head. I asked her question after question and every answer was no. When she had finally had enough of my questions and probably fearing that I would never get it right she “came out” to me and told me that she was a female born in males’ body, she was Transgender. This is something that my brain was not prepared to understand or comprehend its meaning.

The whole time we were talking, I had been praying in the back of my mind to say and do the right thing for her. I didn’t want to mess up this important moment by saying the wrong thing.
After our conversation I was a total mess, but I didn’t want it to show so I gave her a big hug and repeatedly thanked her for trusting me enough to tell me what she had been holding inside for such a long time. I told her that we would be there for her as we figured this all out.

After the initial shock of what I just heard, I soon went into panic mode. All I could do is worry about how hard her future would be. I thought about all the hopes and dreams I had for a son’s future. A mission, marriage and children (my grandchildren) that were all melting away. All I was focusing on was what I would lose and everything that could possibly go wrong.

I began praying, bargaining and begging God to fix this. Make her want to feel the way she was born. I was worried about how people would treat her, how people would treat our whole family. Would they think I was a bad mother? That we were bad parents?
The next several months were extremely difficult. Even though I told her we accepted her and would help her through this, I was not ready to let her transition. I wanted her to wait until she was 18 and graduated from high school. I thought that the other kids at school would bully her or she might be in some sort of physical danger. I was stalling, thinking maybe this whole thing was just a faze and she might change her mind. I thought I knew better and I wasn’t ready to lose my son.

Looking back, it wasn’t the kids at school that were the problem. We were her stumbling block. We told her that we accepted her, but our actions turned out to be the opposite. I shared my concerns to Gwen that I felt like I was in mourning. She told me not to mourn. She said, “I’m still alive, but I did need to grieve my son.” The best way I can describe how I felt was that I had a son that had no future and a daughter with no past.

During this time going to church became very difficult. I would cry at the drop of a hat. Every lesson made me feel like I wasn’t a good mother. We had been searching for help and guidance within the church with no answers. We felt completely alone in this journey we were now on. As the months went by, our whole family was feeling the effects of this. The stress was overwhelming for everyone. We went to doctors and counselors all in the attempt to fix our child.

I had been praying and praying but none of my prayers were getting answered and I could not figure out why? One day I realized that my prayers were very selfish. All I wanted was for this trial to go away, but that is NOT the way trials work. I decided right then that I needed to change the way I had been praying. I went in my room, locked the door and got down on my knees and began to pray. This time instead of asking Heavenly Father to fix everything for me, my prayer had changed to asking how I could help my child. I needed to have an open heart and allow Him to guide me through this.
I have never received a clearer answer to a prayer than I did right then on my knees. The answer that I received was not at all what I was expecting.
I was called by name, “Tiffany, you do not have the right to take away her free agency, you just have to love her.”
It hit me so hard that I was taking away from my child one of God’s greatest gift. Free agency.

That same day I told my daughter that we were no longer going to force her to follow the path we thought was right for her. We were going to change our attitude and support her path of transition. My husband and I along with our other 3 children, who were also going through their own journeys, made the decision that we were going to support, accept and love her through this. We were going to use the correct pronouns and whatever else she needed from us.

As the months went by she was able do what she needed to transition to who she felt was inside. The day finally came that she was able to legally change her name and gender. We went with her to the courthouse to meet with the Judge. The judge was very polite and respectful to her and the process was complete. As we walked out of the courthouse, you could literally see the light come back into her eyes. A physical transformation. We finally had our baby back with us!

She is now happily married to a wonderful man who we love very much. We both were very proud to be asked to walk her down the aisle on her wedding day. Everything was perfect.
That is not to say that her life will be easy. I worry every day how people will treat her. If she is safe. If she is happy.
Recently I spoke with her and through pouring tears I told her how sorry that I was that I was not there for her the way I should have been right from the beginning. I appreciate so much the answer she gave me. She said that it was the process I needed to go through to be the person I am today. Now I am one of those “mothers” that so outwardly support the LGBTQ community.

My daughter has taught me more about true Christlike love than I could have learned any other possible way.
Several times throughout my journey people would ask me how I was OK with her transitioning. Well I think back to something my daughter told me. She said that if she was not able to be the person she felt inside she would have considered taking her own life.
When you hear these words, the choice becomes very clear. I would much rather have a happy daughter than a dead son.

In the book, “That We May Be One” by Tom Christopherson, that was published by Deseret Book it states...
Too many families have experienced the devastating loss of a child to suicide. LGBTQ youth have a higher rate of suicide attempts than do heterosexual youth. While the reality is that suicide is the result of many factors, all of us—parents and family members, Young Men and Young Women leaders, bishoprics and Sunday School teachers, all members of the Church—can help reduce at least some of those factors by simply accepting LGBTQ young people for who they are and loving them. It is a matter of life and death that we do so, with urgency!

My message today is simple, it’s all about love. The word love is a noun, but I think it would be more appropriate to change it to a verb an action. To love! To love one another! Which is a commandment that Christ gave to His disciples in John 13:34: A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
We are all children of our Heavenly Father. It is not our place judge other.
As Elder Uchtdorf spoke in the April 2012 conference: The topic in judging others could actually be taught in a two-word sermon. When it comes to hating, gossiping, ignoring, ridiculing, holding grudges or wanting to cause harm please apply the following:
Stop it!

It is that simple. We simply have to stop judging others and replace judgmental thoughts and feelings with a heart full of love for God and His children. God is our Father. We are his children. We are all brothers and sisters. I would like each of you to think about the people that are in your life. Think about those friends, coworkers, neighbors, nieces, nephews or your own children. How will you respond when you find out that someone you love is LGBTQ? And how have you already responded to them if it has already happened? Are you showing true Christ like love? After all we are all children of GOD & GOD does NOT make mistakes.
I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ amen
-----------------
Please God, can we just end it now???

"After all we are all children of GOD & GOD does NOT make mistakes."

We have let the wolves in....and nobody wants to drive them out, starting from the top. Our men are paralyzed with fear because the precepts of the others,so they refuse to hold the line..... and our women are blind with emotion. This is going to end in a devastating way. We are a weak people.

I see bread lines....

[Silver Pie]

Again I say that's not how the atonement works. God does not forgive sin, doesn't matter what that sin is. If God himself could forgive sin then there would be no point in him sending his son to atone for us.

Okay, now I think I know where you're coming from. I was thinking "God" as inclusive of the Godhead, so thought you were saying Church leaders, only, could forgive sin - that God (including Jesus) could not. Jesus forgives sin - if we accept it.

[Silver Pie]

The way the atonement works is that we humble ourselves, repent by turning to face God (Jesus, our Lord), and do all that He asks of us. No man can forgive sins, no matter how many keys he professes to have. God can and does work with sinners. It is only semantics to take the heavenly parents out of the equation. And I expect they are very much part of it, even though it is only Jesus who has the right to forgive because he has suffered the consequences for our sins whether we have repented or not.

[mgridle1]

Coming to Meridian ID . . .just lovely good luck!

-----Friends,

I’m currently working with my stake president to develop LGBTQ outreach training for bishops and RSPs in our stake. One of the areas we’ll be focusing on is disabusing people of outdated/harmful teachings that still circulate.

I have a list I’ve come up with but I’d like to hear from you and make sure I don’t miss any key points. What are you hearing from members and leaders that you know is outdated? If you are able to include sources for when the idea was originally taught that would be extra helpful (Miracle of Forgivenesses, conference talk, or specific general authority, etc), but not necessary.

Thanks in advance for your help.
-----------------
"outdated" lol nice.

And then this idiot is trying to justify that Paul is saying SSM is totally cool.
aul’s first letter to the church at Corinth includes a list of actions that will keep someone from inheriting the Kingdom of God.

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.”

—————————————————————

“nor effeminate [makakoi], nor abusers of themselves with mankind [arsenokoitai]”

There’s some question over the proper translation of a couple of terms in verse 9. The Greek word “malakoi,” means “soft, delicate.” KJV translated it as “effeminate” and other English translations of the Bible generally used words to indicate male prostitutes or young call boys. This is because scholars have noticed Paul paired the words in this list, and they let arsenokoitai determine their word choice for makakoi.

All of the terms in Paul’s list, except for the first and last, appear to have been intentionally paired together: (1) idolatry was often associated with adultery in the OT, (2) malakoi and arsenokoitai, (3) thieves and coveters both passionately want what belongs to others, and (4) drunkenness often leads to reviling (NIV: slander).

Arsenokoitai is a compound noun, joining arsen (“male”) and koite (“bed,” inferring sex). Paul seems to have coined this word.

Modern scholars have interpreted malakoi and arsenokoitai generally as the passive and active partners in same-sex activity, or young (effeminate) male prostitutes and the men who bought their services.

—————————————————————

fornicators, adulterers, abusers of themselves with mankind

Paul has sex outside of marriage on his mind. Following the vice list (6:9-11) he discusses prostitution at some length (1 Cor 6:12-20) – talking about “fornication” and “harlots."

It is difficult for us to imagine the number of prostitutes in major cities throughout the Roman Empire, who not only operated out of brothels, taverns, inns and eating houses, but openly advertised their wares on the streets, intersections, and bridges; at the city gates, public buildings, and places of entertainment; and in the temples, baths, and marketplaces.

—————————————————————

Paul is talking about a way of life in which we allow ourselves to be governed by worldly appetites rather than by the Spirit. He’s speaking against prostitutes or random hook-ups, where sex is being pursued for sex’s sake. No one believes he is condemning sex between heterosexual married individuals. They likewise shouldn’t assume he’s forbidding relationships of commitment and love and trust between people of the same gender.


KNOW THY ENEMY!!!!

[Lizzy60]

When my stake decides to do "outreach" to teach us all that gay marriage is awesome, they will have seen the last of me.
This is truly Satan at his most cunning.

[Lizzy60]

An LDS man has written a two-volume book laying out the reasoning behind why the LDS Church should fully accept married homosexual couples and their families in the church. This book is not about same-sex attracted Mormons who don't have sex, as you will see two gay men and their baby girl, and two gay women with their children on the advertisement for the book.

He starts off by debunking the scriptures that condemn homosexuality, and goes on from there. This book claims that we Mormons are WRONG in our condemnation of same-sex marriage and sex acts.

https://www.stumblingblocksandstepping- ... zjvla4_8VU

[I AM]

An LDS man has written a two-volume book laying out the reasoning behind why the LDS Church should fully accept married homosexual couples and their families in the church. This book is not about same-sex attracted Mormons who don't have sex, as you will see two gay men and their baby girl, and two gay women with their children on the advertisement for the book.

He starts off by debunking the scriptures that condemn homosexuality, and goes on from there. This book claims that we Mormons are WRONG in our condemnation of same-sex marriage and sex acts.

https://www.stumblingblocksandstepping- ... zjvla4_8VU

-------------
reminds me of calling "evil good, and good evil"
why am I not surprised.

Isaiah 5
20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Besides their literal meaning, good and evil denote covenant keeping and covenant breaking, covenant blessing and covenant curse. In one manifestation of covenant breaking, Jehovah’s people choose what is bitter—the darkness of spiritual blindness (Isaiah 59:9-10)—over what is sweet; that is, Jehovah’s light or the terms of his covenant (Isaiah 51:4). They further reject Jehovah’s servant, whom Jehovah appoints as “a light to the nations” (Isaiah 42:6; 49:6; emphasis added) and fall prey to the king of Assyria/Babylon (Isaiah 10:3-6), who typifies the darkness of Jehovah’s Day of Judgment.


sounds like we might be ready for the Lord's "act"
His strange act, and perform His work, His strange work"


D&C 101

95 That I may proceed to bring to pass my act, my strange act, and perform my work, my strange work, that men may discern between the righteous and the wicked, saith your God.


Isaiah 28

18 Your covenant with Death shall prove void,
your understanding with Sheol have no effect:
when the flooding scourge sweeps through,
you shall be overrun by it.
19 As often as it sweeps through,
you shall be seized by it:
morning after morning it shall sweep through,
by day and by night it shall seize you;
it shall cause terror merely to hear word of it.

The façade the leaders of Jehovah’s people maintain that hides their Covenant with Death (v 15) is swept away in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment when the king of Assyria/Babylon—the scourge of the wicked—overruns their Promised Land. Those unprepared to receive Jehovah’s new revelation (v 16; Isaiah 42:9; 48:6-8)—because they have mistaken the old or taken it lightly (Isaiah 41:26-29; 50:10-11)—face a protracted period of Jehovah’s justice. In the pattern of ancient Assyria’s and Babylon’s destructions of Jehovah’s people and their lands, his people’s apostasy triggers Jehovah’s Day of Judgment.

21 For Jehovah will rise up
as he did on Mount Perazim,
and be stirred to anger, as in the Valley of Gibeon—
to perform his act, his unwonted act,
and do his work, his bizarre work.
KJV (that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.)

While “they who walk uprightly shall attain peace and rest in their beds” in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment (Isaiah 57:2), the wicked suffer deprivation and other covenant curses (Isaiah 3:6-7). In that context, Jehovah’s “act” or “work” (Isaiah 5:19; 10:12; 40:10; 45:9; 62:11) is twofold: (1) the destruction of the wicked; and (2) the deliverance of the righteous. As in this instance, the work’s destructive aspect is “unwonted” or “strange” (zar). It is “bizarre” or “alien” (nokriya) because on this occasion Jehovah is “stirred to anger” and “rises up” against his own people instead of against their enemies.

Jehovah’s rising up as he did on “Mount Perazim”—literally the “Mount of Breakings Forth”—harks back to his breaking forth upon his people who transgressed their bounds at Mount Sinai (Exodus 19:20-24) and to his breaking forth upon Israel’s enemies the Philistines (2 Samuel 5:18-20). Jehovah’s being stirred to anger “as in the Valley of Gibeon” refers to Joshua’s victory over an alliance of Amorites, when the sun stood still upon Gibeon for an entire day until the Israelites had slaughtered them and Jehovah had helped them by casting great hailstones upon their enemies (Joshua 10:10-14).

[Lizzy60]

We have lost the battle. This happened in Utah County, the most LDS county in Utah, at about 85% Mormon.

https://fox13now.com/2019/11/29/substit ... tive-dads/

[drtanner]

We have lost the battle. This happened in Utah County, the most LDS county in Utah, at about 85% Mormon.

https://fox13now.com/2019/11/29/substit ... tive-dads/

We? No “we” have not lost a battle and “we” will not loose a battle in the future, period end of story. President Nelson and President Oaks have both recently addressed this issue AGAIN. It is important to remember that individuals to do not represent the church as a whole. The leaders speak for the church and they have been more than clear where “we” actually stand on this issue. When you post things like this you have the potential to confuse people by making them think the church Is saying something it is not. Many seem to be paranoid and almost obsessed with this issue and what the church’s stance is when they simply need to listen to almost every conference for the past decade and read the proclamation for clarity.

That being said there is probably also a conversation to be had if the state is already allowing same sex couples to foster children if those children are better off being adopted by those couples.

Also If “we” really do believe in equal rights that will also mean allowing things “we” do not agree with at times to preserve those rights.

[gradles21]

We have lost the battle. This happened in Utah County, the most LDS county in Utah, at about 85% Mormon.

https://fox13now.com/2019/11/29/substit ... tive-dads/

It bothers me that there is no attempt by the principal or fox13 to get both sides of this story, it is just presumed and accepted that any woman that disagrees with the LGBT agenda must be an evil woman.

[Lizzy60]

We have lost the battle. This happened in Utah County, the most LDS county in Utah, at about 85% Mormon.

https://fox13now.com/2019/11/29/substit ... tive-dads/

It bothers me that there is no attempt by the principal or fox13 to get both sides of this story, it is just presumed and accepted that any woman that disagrees with the LGBT agenda must be an evil woman.

The news outlets are refusing to give her name, as she would probably be further harassed, the children who left the room to report her to the principal are being praised, and some LGBTQ advocates are mocking the teacher, saying she's probably trying to claim a "religious" right to her homophobic beliefs.

DrTanner above claims that the Church hasn't changed its teachings on homosexuality, but something must be going on when the rank and file members are defending gay marriage, and someone who says it's a sin is persecuted.

Just like the previous major changes in church doctrine, which were spurred by either government pressure, or membership pressure, we will see more concessions on the LGBTQ agenda, until we just accept it as normal, and claim either "further light and knowledge", or "let God sort it out in the hereafter".