The tide is turning...

[Arenera]

Are you just going to ignore my question?

Positive
"You didn't ask me, but I think the bishop and the counselor did the right thing. She didn't kill herself, and as long as someone is alive, God can work with them however he will."

Abomination
"Are you saying God can't work with a person who commits suicide but without having committed sins next to murder?
"I believe she received evil counsel."

Ok, let’s see where y’all are coming from.

You consider being gay a horrendous sin.
You consider it a choice, and therefore a person can change from being gay.
If a gay person is a Latter-Day Saint, they can be celibate or if they practice, they should be excommunicated.
Leaders should tell gay Latter-Day Saints, they cannot practice or they will be excommunicated.
We don’t want practicing Gay in the Church, they are welcome to leave.
Our leaders need to communicate and enforce the “no practice” rule.

Is this about right?
Yes. Exactly right.

"It's a choice."
"“Gay happy rainbow” parades don’t tell the ugly facts about choosing the homosexual lifestyle"

Definition for "Abomination": a thing that causes disgust or hatred.
Synonyms: atrocity, disgrace, horror, obscenity, outrage, evil, crime, monstrosity, anathema, bane, detestation, loathing, hatred, aversion, antipathy, revulsion, repugnance, abhorrence, odium, execration, disgust, hostility.

So your wondering why we hate such despicable loathing satanic wickedness? Because it is evil on the most basic level!

I do not want to see it before me, two men kissing or walking hand in hand. It violate me to have it displayed before me, and I have a equal right to make my feelings known, free speech if it is done or paraded before me! My vocabulary way out paces the silly names they try to label me with:

Homophobic! I can't help that I'm homophobic... I was born that way!
Gay-basher! I do not believe in physical force, the truth needs no defense!
Hate Speech! G_d is the one who said He hated it first, by calling it an abomination!
Breeder! I believe in 'Traditional Marriage', G_d ordained values!
Sexiest! I believe in 'Traditional Moral Values'!
Heterosexual! I just don't believe in perverts with filthy habits!

"Don't we say it's better to die early, than to live and turn from God?"
"If I have a child that is gay, and I lay aside God's law out of "love" for them, I am denying the very core of the atonement of Jesus Christ. I am saying the one is more important the God."

Is there a difference if your gay son practices, or if you straight son practices with women?
I believe there is a big difference. Gay sex is an abomination to God, no matter that a corrupt Supreme Court has "legalized" gay marriage. It is completely perverted. It's right up there with rape and murder and abortion.

"I agree. There is a distinction between the sins of abomination and the sins of misuse of righteous powers."

Sorry, but I can't agree even one bit. God cares very much about gay sexual activity and He calls it an abomination, depraved, and evil. It degrades the most holy attribute He has given man, the ability to procreate and provide mortal bodies for His spirit children. I don't have the language to express how much God HATES homosexual acts.

I know this for a fact. It's ridiculous to compare the disgusting act of sodomy to left-handedness. It will always be an abomination to God even if NOBODY agrees.

"Yes homosexuality is an abomination. Scriptures say so. Man shall not lie with man. OT and NT say it. Anyone who says the scriptures are silent on homosexuality haven't read the scriptures."
"They are bad people not b/c they mingle with them, but b/c they promote them. I have NEVER heard them in ANY instance call ANYONE to repentance about this. They advocate it, the promote it. "


Personal Attacks
"You're either sick or totally ignorant of the Gospel."
"I think you're deceived"
"Honest question, are you Gay?"
"More shaming; insinuating that these posters are awful people for having their opinion."
"Wrong. Not only are you and others trying to push homosexual sin acceptance in church circles like this forum and church services"
"nd the fact that you hate him and treat him with disrespect means that you are just here to push your pro homosexual lifestyle and acceptance agenda, NOT spread kindness............you have been exposed."
"You would not have to ask if you have ever read the scriptures"
"As several have noticed, you’re intentions have been revealed. At first, I felt kind of bad for you because so many people have pointed out to you how you’ve been mistaken. But I think the pressure has shown more of your true colors."
"You fight against scripture. You fight against The Family: A Proclamation. You fight against Nature itself and the God who established it."
"the fact that lobbying god to accept immorality is a sin in and of itself, I have another issue with this and that is where does your authority come from? "

Church is Wrong
"Dead wrong on this issue-i.e. that homosexuals commit no sin as long as they don't physically act on it . . .it should be obvious that that's false."
"God is my God - I don’t have other gods (not even the church or leaders) above God. I don’t trust in the flesh... the church’s website, “mormon and gay” is wrongfully labeling people by their sins as if they have no free agency - as if “it’s just who they are.” That is wrong based on research as well as what God/Truth has shown."
"That is why I feel absolutely 100% safe in saying the Church is wrong about homosexuality-they didn't vote on this new policy, they didn't offer it up to the body of the Church, they just did it. "
"It looks like some of the church is being infiltrated by those with homosexual preferences as they said they would..."
"There is no where else to go; regardless of the corruption and false doctrine being taught that does not conform to scripture."
"I'm absolutely sure as society gets more and more wicked my concerns about the Church and corruption will grow."
"I do not believe in some ways they teach the true nature of man as explained in the scriptures. "
"they simply do not teach the true nature of the fallen man in regards to this issue (and in one or two other areas . . . but that is relatively minor) according to Scripture."
"I absolutely fully sustain them as Prophets, Apostles (which are offices in the Priesthood) and such even IF what they teach is not in line with scripture "
"I do believe that it is possible theologically they are losing the power of the Priesthood; I think this is self-evident as the culture of the Church is fracturing dramatically that can only happen through unrighteousness both of the people and of the leaders."
"Yes, a completely legalistic statement from Oaks."

The Word of God says you are wrong and it says the current leadership is wrong.

So unless you'd like to add new scriptures . . you're done.

[abijah]

If I could go back to my college Psychology class with this thread...

My teacher would’ve had a good laugh

[ElizaRSkousen]

If I could go back to my college Psychology class with this thread...

My teacher would’ve had a good laugh

I thought the same about my philosophy/debate class!

[cyclOps]

Are you just going to ignore my question?

Positive
"You didn't ask me, but I think the bishop and the counselor did the right thing. She didn't kill herself, and as long as someone is alive, God can work with them however he will."

Abomination
"Are you saying God can't work with a person who commits suicide but without having committed sins next to murder?
"I believe she received evil counsel."

Ok, let’s see where y’all are coming from.

You consider being gay a horrendous sin.
You consider it a choice, and therefore a person can change from being gay.
If a gay person is a Latter-Day Saint, they can be celibate or if they practice, they should be excommunicated.
Leaders should tell gay Latter-Day Saints, they cannot practice or they will be excommunicated.
We don’t want practicing Gay in the Church, they are welcome to leave.
Our leaders need to communicate and enforce the “no practice” rule.

Is this about right?
Yes. Exactly right.

"It's a choice."
"“Gay happy rainbow” parades don’t tell the ugly facts about choosing the homosexual lifestyle"

Definition for "Abomination": a thing that causes disgust or hatred.
Synonyms: atrocity, disgrace, horror, obscenity, outrage, evil, crime, monstrosity, anathema, bane, detestation, loathing, hatred, aversion, antipathy, revulsion, repugnance, abhorrence, odium, execration, disgust, hostility.

So your wondering why we hate such despicable loathing satanic wickedness? Because it is evil on the most basic level!

I do not want to see it before me, two men kissing or walking hand in hand. It violate me to have it displayed before me, and I have a equal right to make my feelings known, free speech if it is done or paraded before me! My vocabulary way out paces the silly names they try to label me with:

Homophobic! I can't help that I'm homophobic... I was born that way!
Gay-basher! I do not believe in physical force, the truth needs no defense!
Hate Speech! G_d is the one who said He hated it first, by calling it an abomination!
Breeder! I believe in 'Traditional Marriage', G_d ordained values!
Sexiest! I believe in 'Traditional Moral Values'!
Heterosexual! I just don't believe in perverts with filthy habits!

"Don't we say it's better to die early, than to live and turn from God?"
"If I have a child that is gay, and I lay aside God's law out of "love" for them, I am denying the very core of the atonement of Jesus Christ. I am saying the one is more important the God."

Is there a difference if your gay son practices, or if you straight son practices with women?
I believe there is a big difference. Gay sex is an abomination to God, no matter that a corrupt Supreme Court has "legalized" gay marriage. It is completely perverted. It's right up there with rape and murder and abortion.

"I agree. There is a distinction between the sins of abomination and the sins of misuse of righteous powers."

Sorry, but I can't agree even one bit. God cares very much about gay sexual activity and He calls it an abomination, depraved, and evil. It degrades the most holy attribute He has given man, the ability to procreate and provide mortal bodies for His spirit children. I don't have the language to express how much God HATES homosexual acts.

I know this for a fact. It's ridiculous to compare the disgusting act of sodomy to left-handedness. It will always be an abomination to God even if NOBODY agrees.

"Yes homosexuality is an abomination. Scriptures say so. Man shall not lie with man. OT and NT say it. Anyone who says the scriptures are silent on homosexuality haven't read the scriptures."
"They are bad people not b/c they mingle with them, but b/c they promote them. I have NEVER heard them in ANY instance call ANYONE to repentance about this. They advocate it, the promote it. "


Personal Attacks
"You're either sick or totally ignorant of the Gospel."
"I think you're deceived"
"Honest question, are you Gay?"
"More shaming; insinuating that these posters are awful people for having their opinion."
"Wrong. Not only are you and others trying to push homosexual sin acceptance in church circles like this forum and church services"
"nd the fact that you hate him and treat him with disrespect means that you are just here to push your pro homosexual lifestyle and acceptance agenda, NOT spread kindness............you have been exposed."
"You would not have to ask if you have ever read the scriptures"
"As several have noticed, you’re intentions have been revealed. At first, I felt kind of bad for you because so many people have pointed out to you how you’ve been mistaken. But I think the pressure has shown more of your true colors."
"You fight against scripture. You fight against The Family: A Proclamation. You fight against Nature itself and the God who established it."
"the fact that lobbying god to accept immorality is a sin in and of itself, I have another issue with this and that is where does your authority come from? "

Church is Wrong
"Dead wrong on this issue-i.e. that homosexuals commit no sin as long as they don't physically act on it . . .it should be obvious that that's false."
"God is my God - I don’t have other gods (not even the church or leaders) above God. I don’t trust in the flesh... the church’s website, “mormon and gay” is wrongfully labeling people by their sins as if they have no free agency - as if “it’s just who they are.” That is wrong based on research as well as what God/Truth has shown."
"That is why I feel absolutely 100% safe in saying the Church is wrong about homosexuality-they didn't vote on this new policy, they didn't offer it up to the body of the Church, they just did it. "
"It looks like some of the church is being infiltrated by those with homosexual preferences as they said they would..."
"There is no where else to go; regardless of the corruption and false doctrine being taught that does not conform to scripture."
"I'm absolutely sure as society gets more and more wicked my concerns about the Church and corruption will grow."
"I do not believe in some ways they teach the true nature of man as explained in the scriptures. "
"they simply do not teach the true nature of the fallen man in regards to this issue (and in one or two other areas . . . but that is relatively minor) according to Scripture."
"I absolutely fully sustain them as Prophets, Apostles (which are offices in the Priesthood) and such even IF what they teach is not in line with scripture "
"I do believe that it is possible theologically they are losing the power of the Priesthood; I think this is self-evident as the culture of the Church is fracturing dramatically that can only happen through unrighteousness both of the people and of the leaders."
"Yes, a completely legalistic statement from Oaks."

The Word of God says you are wrong and it says the current leadership is wrong.

So unless you'd like to add new scriptures . . you're done.

I see lots of hate for sin, I don’t see any hate for people. You think that they’re mutually exclusive and they’re not. I hate sin, even homosexual behavior. I don’t hate people, even practicing homosexuals.

[Arenera]

Are you just going to ignore my question?

Positive
"You didn't ask me, but I think the bishop and the counselor did the right thing. She didn't kill herself, and as long as someone is alive, God can work with them however he will."

Abomination
"Are you saying God can't work with a person who commits suicide but without having committed sins next to murder?
"I believe she received evil counsel."

Ok, let’s see where y’all are coming from.

You consider being gay a horrendous sin.
You consider it a choice, and therefore a person can change from being gay.
If a gay person is a Latter-Day Saint, they can be celibate or if they practice, they should be excommunicated.
Leaders should tell gay Latter-Day Saints, they cannot practice or they will be excommunicated.
We don’t want practicing Gay in the Church, they are welcome to leave.
Our leaders need to communicate and enforce the “no practice” rule.

Is this about right?
Yes. Exactly right.

"It's a choice."
"“Gay happy rainbow” parades don’t tell the ugly facts about choosing the homosexual lifestyle"

Definition for "Abomination": a thing that causes disgust or hatred.
Synonyms: atrocity, disgrace, horror, obscenity, outrage, evil, crime, monstrosity, anathema, bane, detestation, loathing, hatred, aversion, antipathy, revulsion, repugnance, abhorrence, odium, execration, disgust, hostility.

So your wondering why we hate such despicable loathing satanic wickedness? Because it is evil on the most basic level!

I do not want to see it before me, two men kissing or walking hand in hand. It violate me to have it displayed before me, and I have a equal right to make my feelings known, free speech if it is done or paraded before me! My vocabulary way out paces the silly names they try to label me with:

Homophobic! I can't help that I'm homophobic... I was born that way!
Gay-basher! I do not believe in physical force, the truth needs no defense!
Hate Speech! G_d is the one who said He hated it first, by calling it an abomination!
Breeder! I believe in 'Traditional Marriage', G_d ordained values!
Sexiest! I believe in 'Traditional Moral Values'!
Heterosexual! I just don't believe in perverts with filthy habits!

"Don't we say it's better to die early, than to live and turn from God?"
"If I have a child that is gay, and I lay aside God's law out of "love" for them, I am denying the very core of the atonement of Jesus Christ. I am saying the one is more important the God."

Is there a difference if your gay son practices, or if you straight son practices with women?
I believe there is a big difference. Gay sex is an abomination to God, no matter that a corrupt Supreme Court has "legalized" gay marriage. It is completely perverted. It's right up there with rape and murder and abortion.

"I agree. There is a distinction between the sins of abomination and the sins of misuse of righteous powers."

Sorry, but I can't agree even one bit. God cares very much about gay sexual activity and He calls it an abomination, depraved, and evil. It degrades the most holy attribute He has given man, the ability to procreate and provide mortal bodies for His spirit children. I don't have the language to express how much God HATES homosexual acts.

I know this for a fact. It's ridiculous to compare the disgusting act of sodomy to left-handedness. It will always be an abomination to God even if NOBODY agrees.

"Yes homosexuality is an abomination. Scriptures say so. Man shall not lie with man. OT and NT say it. Anyone who says the scriptures are silent on homosexuality haven't read the scriptures."
"They are bad people not b/c they mingle with them, but b/c they promote them. I have NEVER heard them in ANY instance call ANYONE to repentance about this. They advocate it, the promote it. "


Personal Attacks
"You're either sick or totally ignorant of the Gospel."
"I think you're deceived"
"Honest question, are you Gay?"
"More shaming; insinuating that these posters are awful people for having their opinion."
"Wrong. Not only are you and others trying to push homosexual sin acceptance in church circles like this forum and church services"
"nd the fact that you hate him and treat him with disrespect means that you are just here to push your pro homosexual lifestyle and acceptance agenda, NOT spread kindness............you have been exposed."
"You would not have to ask if you have ever read the scriptures"
"As several have noticed, you’re intentions have been revealed. At first, I felt kind of bad for you because so many people have pointed out to you how you’ve been mistaken. But I think the pressure has shown more of your true colors."
"You fight against scripture. You fight against The Family: A Proclamation. You fight against Nature itself and the God who established it."
"the fact that lobbying god to accept immorality is a sin in and of itself, I have another issue with this and that is where does your authority come from? "

Church is Wrong
"Dead wrong on this issue-i.e. that homosexuals commit no sin as long as they don't physically act on it . . .it should be obvious that that's false."
"God is my God - I don’t have other gods (not even the church or leaders) above God. I don’t trust in the flesh... the church’s website, “mormon and gay” is wrongfully labeling people by their sins as if they have no free agency - as if “it’s just who they are.” That is wrong based on research as well as what God/Truth has shown."
"That is why I feel absolutely 100% safe in saying the Church is wrong about homosexuality-they didn't vote on this new policy, they didn't offer it up to the body of the Church, they just did it. "
"It looks like some of the church is being infiltrated by those with homosexual preferences as they said they would..."
"There is no where else to go; regardless of the corruption and false doctrine being taught that does not conform to scripture."
"I'm absolutely sure as society gets more and more wicked my concerns about the Church and corruption will grow."
"I do not believe in some ways they teach the true nature of man as explained in the scriptures. "
"they simply do not teach the true nature of the fallen man in regards to this issue (and in one or two other areas . . . but that is relatively minor) according to Scripture."
"I absolutely fully sustain them as Prophets, Apostles (which are offices in the Priesthood) and such even IF what they teach is not in line with scripture "
"I do believe that it is possible theologically they are losing the power of the Priesthood; I think this is self-evident as the culture of the Church is fracturing dramatically that can only happen through unrighteousness both of the people and of the leaders."
"Yes, a completely legalistic statement from Oaks."

The Word of God says you are wrong and it says the current leadership is wrong.

So unless you'd like to add new scriptures . . you're done.

I see lots of hate for sin, I don’t see any hate for people. You think that they’re mutually exclusive and they’re not. I hate sin, even homosexual behavior. I don’t hate people, even practicing homosexuals.

What we say has the potential to become our actions. You can see there is some thoughts about the Leaders being wrong.

[cyclOps]

Are you just going to ignore my question?

Positive
"You didn't ask me, but I think the bishop and the counselor did the right thing. She didn't kill herself, and as long as someone is alive, God can work with them however he will."

Abomination
"Are you saying God can't work with a person who commits suicide but without having committed sins next to murder?
"I believe she received evil counsel."

Ok, let’s see where y’all are coming from.

You consider being gay a horrendous sin.
You consider it a choice, and therefore a person can change from being gay.
If a gay person is a Latter-Day Saint, they can be celibate or if they practice, they should be excommunicated.
Leaders should tell gay Latter-Day Saints, they cannot practice or they will be excommunicated.
We don’t want practicing Gay in the Church, they are welcome to leave.
Our leaders need to communicate and enforce the “no practice” rule.

Is this about right?
Yes. Exactly right.

"It's a choice."
"“Gay happy rainbow” parades don’t tell the ugly facts about choosing the homosexual lifestyle"

Definition for "Abomination": a thing that causes disgust or hatred.
Synonyms: atrocity, disgrace, horror, obscenity, outrage, evil, crime, monstrosity, anathema, bane, detestation, loathing, hatred, aversion, antipathy, revulsion, repugnance, abhorrence, odium, execration, disgust, hostility.

So your wondering why we hate such despicable loathing satanic wickedness? Because it is evil on the most basic level!

I do not want to see it before me, two men kissing or walking hand in hand. It violate me to have it displayed before me, and I have a equal right to make my feelings known, free speech if it is done or paraded before me! My vocabulary way out paces the silly names they try to label me with:

Homophobic! I can't help that I'm homophobic... I was born that way!
Gay-basher! I do not believe in physical force, the truth needs no defense!
Hate Speech! G_d is the one who said He hated it first, by calling it an abomination!
Breeder! I believe in 'Traditional Marriage', G_d ordained values!
Sexiest! I believe in 'Traditional Moral Values'!
Heterosexual! I just don't believe in perverts with filthy habits!

"Don't we say it's better to die early, than to live and turn from God?"
"If I have a child that is gay, and I lay aside God's law out of "love" for them, I am denying the very core of the atonement of Jesus Christ. I am saying the one is more important the God."

Is there a difference if your gay son practices, or if you straight son practices with women?
I believe there is a big difference. Gay sex is an abomination to God, no matter that a corrupt Supreme Court has "legalized" gay marriage. It is completely perverted. It's right up there with rape and murder and abortion.

"I agree. There is a distinction between the sins of abomination and the sins of misuse of righteous powers."

Sorry, but I can't agree even one bit. God cares very much about gay sexual activity and He calls it an abomination, depraved, and evil. It degrades the most holy attribute He has given man, the ability to procreate and provide mortal bodies for His spirit children. I don't have the language to express how much God HATES homosexual acts.

I know this for a fact. It's ridiculous to compare the disgusting act of sodomy to left-handedness. It will always be an abomination to God even if NOBODY agrees.

"Yes homosexuality is an abomination. Scriptures say so. Man shall not lie with man. OT and NT say it. Anyone who says the scriptures are silent on homosexuality haven't read the scriptures."
"They are bad people not b/c they mingle with them, but b/c they promote them. I have NEVER heard them in ANY instance call ANYONE to repentance about this. They advocate it, the promote it. "


Personal Attacks
"You're either sick or totally ignorant of the Gospel."
"I think you're deceived"
"Honest question, are you Gay?"
"More shaming; insinuating that these posters are awful people for having their opinion."
"Wrong. Not only are you and others trying to push homosexual sin acceptance in church circles like this forum and church services"
"nd the fact that you hate him and treat him with disrespect means that you are just here to push your pro homosexual lifestyle and acceptance agenda, NOT spread kindness............you have been exposed."
"You would not have to ask if you have ever read the scriptures"
"As several have noticed, you’re intentions have been revealed. At first, I felt kind of bad for you because so many people have pointed out to you how you’ve been mistaken. But I think the pressure has shown more of your true colors."
"You fight against scripture. You fight against The Family: A Proclamation. You fight against Nature itself and the God who established it."
"the fact that lobbying god to accept immorality is a sin in and of itself, I have another issue with this and that is where does your authority come from? "

Church is Wrong
"Dead wrong on this issue-i.e. that homosexuals commit no sin as long as they don't physically act on it . . .it should be obvious that that's false."
"God is my God - I don’t have other gods (not even the church or leaders) above God. I don’t trust in the flesh... the church’s website, “mormon and gay” is wrongfully labeling people by their sins as if they have no free agency - as if “it’s just who they are.” That is wrong based on research as well as what God/Truth has shown."
"That is why I feel absolutely 100% safe in saying the Church is wrong about homosexuality-they didn't vote on this new policy, they didn't offer it up to the body of the Church, they just did it. "
"It looks like some of the church is being infiltrated by those with homosexual preferences as they said they would..."
"There is no where else to go; regardless of the corruption and false doctrine being taught that does not conform to scripture."
"I'm absolutely sure as society gets more and more wicked my concerns about the Church and corruption will grow."
"I do not believe in some ways they teach the true nature of man as explained in the scriptures. "
"they simply do not teach the true nature of the fallen man in regards to this issue (and in one or two other areas . . . but that is relatively minor) according to Scripture."
"I absolutely fully sustain them as Prophets, Apostles (which are offices in the Priesthood) and such even IF what they teach is not in line with scripture "
"I do believe that it is possible theologically they are losing the power of the Priesthood; I think this is self-evident as the culture of the Church is fracturing dramatically that can only happen through unrighteousness both of the people and of the leaders."
"Yes, a completely legalistic statement from Oaks."

The Word of God says you are wrong and it says the current leadership is wrong.

So unless you'd like to add new scriptures . . you're done.

I see lots of hate for sin, I don’t see any hate for people. You think that they’re mutually exclusive and they’re not. I hate sin, even homosexual behavior. I don’t hate people, even practicing homosexuals.

What we say has the potential to become our actions. You can see there is some thoughts about the Leaders being wrong.

Yes and if you read my exchange with mgridle you see that I don’t agree the leaders are wrong. My question was about why you think we or I hate homosexuals simply because we believe homosexual behavior is a sin. If you think the leaders are right then you should know they hold the same position.

[mgridle1]

Well, our definitions in words are messed up. What is attraction?
Is it simply that you say hey so and so is a good looking person they are a cool person to be around. If that is your definition then I totally agree. Homosexuality is NOT recognizing the beauty in other people.

I see a beautiful painting and it is pleasing to the eye, I don't have paintsexuality . . .no not at all I just recognize beauty. Homosexuality and SSA is by definition SEXUAL in nature. It has to do with sexual desire.

So yeah, two dudes can hang out together be attracted to each other (b/c they like each other, enjoy each others company) and NOT be homosexuals-it's called a brotherhood. Shoot you can even recognize that the other person is a good looking dude. I can plainly recognize that some dudes like Chris Hemsworth are good looking people. Proportionally they are well built, their facial features are well defined (and statistically speaking the more a person (male or female) conform to the Golden Ratio and Golden Triangle the more good looking they are. And no, beauty is not subjective-it's science there is some real objectivity in beauty. You don't have to be SEXUALLY attracted to someone to recognize they are good looking.

So if what you are saying is the above, I totally agree with you. no problem. But that's NOT what SSA or homosexuality is about-it has been and will always be about sex. It's about taking people who don't know any better and molding them to sexually desire the same-sex.

When I speak of attraction in this context, I speak of sexual attraction. Sorry if that wasn’t obvious.

Sexual attraction is not lust and is not inherently a sin. It requires no choice nor action.

Then you are wrong, it is lust and it is wrong. Desiring to have sex with someone who is not your spouse is against God's law period-it is lust.

I used to think like you do . . .then I started studying the scriptures more. They do not say what you think they say about sexual attraction.

Because ultimately if sexual attraction is not lust and is not wrong-then it MUST lead to full acceptance of homosexuality.

Respectfully, I am not wrong. But of course I’m going to say that. You used a key word: desire. To desire is different than to have an attraction. One requires choice and action (desire, a verb). Sexual attraction doesn’t mean desire to have sex. I agree desire to have sex is lust. Sexual attraction can and does lead to desire to have sex if left to it’s natural course, however they are not the same.

Yes you will say that. That's okay. Are we supposed to control our feelings or our we not?

Christ says:"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:"

There is verse after verse after version in the scriptures that we are to control our thoughts and feelings.

If sexual attraction is not the desire to have sex and it's not the acknowledgement of beauty in the same-sex then please define for me what it is. My guess is you can't and you won't be able to define it b/c you don't know what it is . . .

I have thought about this for many, many years, I've thought about my own life in relation to my own problems, thoughts, feelings, etc. I have studied the scriptures and flat out SSA is not of God and anyone who has it CAN absolutely overcome it. There is no doubt in my mind.

Finally, the fruits of letting open homosexuals into the Church, well it's bearing fruit and all I have to say is for any parent out there, you need to be very, very cautious and be very aware. If you believe it is something you are "born with" then you don't care-b/c people can't turn homosexual . . .right? Totally false.
------
It was an amazing night. I’d prepped for this, but still felt some butterflies but also felt firmly it was the right thing to do.

All the adults were in one room watching the same videos and having a discussion on the same topics. It was just me, the stake president and his wife (she was there for moral support and to keep adults out who showed up late).

The final topic was “same sex attraction”. We began by watching a video from the mormonandgay website. At its conclusion a teenage girl on the front pew raised her hand and the stake president handed her the microphone. She said how she never felt welcome or that there was a place for her at church because of her sexuality until just now. WOW. That was so brave of her. Of course, the room was electric, everyone paying attention. The stake president started crying, proclaimed there’s a place for everyone here and we need to do a better job at helping them.

Then he announced that he’s going to turn some time over to me, that I’m a gay man in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (my only criticism is I wish he’d let me say this about myself), handed me a microphone and asked me to share my story and experiences with them.

I asked them, by a raise of hands, how many would say they know me. Nearly all 180 hands went up. I remarked that I feel like I’m among friends and that’s helpful for what I want to say.

I began by claiming that me and the young lady on the front row aren’t the only LGBTQ+ individuals in the room. That too often in our church are queer members spoken about but not spoken to. That I had a lot of things I wanted to be sure to say and so I’d written them down and was going to refer to these notes to help me. And then I just said all of it. It was very emotional. I was emotional, many of them were.

After I finished, the stake president said that releasing me as the stake young men president had been one of the hardest things he ever did, but he felt compelled to put me as his executive secretary so my views would be available in all the highest councils of the stake. That by being myself I have helped him tremendously by correcting his misunderstandings and driving the shadows away from LGBT topics and his perceptions have been transformed
--------------

[mgridle1]

If you are a parent in one of these very liberal areas . . .be cautious your child might be recruited . . .instead of telling a child, this isn't something you are born with you can change, it's just "give in to it" . . but don't have sex!

This is so incredibly ludicrous all I can do now is just almost laugh. Here you have a dude who is obviously messed up (he has been to a therapist/psycologist), homosexual, tells everyone he's totally fine the way he is, he goes on dates, is paraded around the Stake giving firesides to the youth about LGBT issues in the Church. Elder Costa hugs all over the guy and weeps at his mention, the SP holds him up the the High Council and others as an example!

This is the very definition of the blind leading the blind. This guy is so jacked up, he can't see straight (or eat straight . . .literally-read his blog) yet he is the one to who Elder Costa, the SP and the youth look up to for all things LGBT!!! ROFLOL . . .hilarious.

Now, if he was ex-homosexual (and there are plenty of them out there), demonstrated a humble, repentant attitude and actually instructed the youth based upon life experience about repentance . . .sure no problem. But nope.

Oh and looky here is another example:
http://www.ldsliving.com/A-Mission-Pres ... ay/s/89155

You've got Mission President's telling a young man "'This is who you are,' "

Stick a fork in it . . .homosexual unions/marriages whatever you want to call them . . .yeah it's coming, either that or a big 'ol cleansing.

Come on a MP telling a young missionary you are homosexual that is who you are for life, there is nothing you can do about it . . .so sad, they don't have a clue about the actual Gospel.

[mgridle1]

...

[mgridle1]

Positive
"You didn't ask me, but I think the bishop and the counselor did the right thing. She didn't kill herself, and as long as someone is alive, God can work with them however he will."

Abomination
"Are you saying God can't work with a person who commits suicide but without having committed sins next to murder?
"I believe she received evil counsel."

"It's a choice."
"“Gay happy rainbow” parades don’t tell the ugly facts about choosing the homosexual lifestyle"

"Don't we say it's better to die early, than to live and turn from God?"
"If I have a child that is gay, and I lay aside God's law out of "love" for them, I am denying the very core of the atonement of Jesus Christ. I am saying the one is more important the God."

"I agree. There is a distinction between the sins of abomination and the sins of misuse of righteous powers."

"Yes homosexuality is an abomination. Scriptures say so. Man shall not lie with man. OT and NT say it. Anyone who says the scriptures are silent on homosexuality haven't read the scriptures."
"They are bad people not b/c they mingle with them, but b/c they promote them. I have NEVER heard them in ANY instance call ANYONE to repentance about this. They advocate it, the promote it. "


Personal Attacks
"You're either sick or totally ignorant of the Gospel."
"I think you're deceived"
"Honest question, are you Gay?"
"More shaming; insinuating that these posters are awful people for having their opinion."
"Wrong. Not only are you and others trying to push homosexual sin acceptance in church circles like this forum and church services"
"nd the fact that you hate him and treat him with disrespect means that you are just here to push your pro homosexual lifestyle and acceptance agenda, NOT spread kindness............you have been exposed."
"You would not have to ask if you have ever read the scriptures"
"As several have noticed, you’re intentions have been revealed. At first, I felt kind of bad for you because so many people have pointed out to you how you’ve been mistaken. But I think the pressure has shown more of your true colors."
"You fight against scripture. You fight against The Family: A Proclamation. You fight against Nature itself and the God who established it."
"the fact that lobbying god to accept immorality is a sin in and of itself, I have another issue with this and that is where does your authority come from? "

Church is Wrong
"Dead wrong on this issue-i.e. that homosexuals commit no sin as long as they don't physically act on it . . .it should be obvious that that's false."
"God is my God - I don’t have other gods (not even the church or leaders) above God. I don’t trust in the flesh... the church’s website, “mormon and gay” is wrongfully labeling people by their sins as if they have no free agency - as if “it’s just who they are.” That is wrong based on research as well as what God/Truth has shown."
"That is why I feel absolutely 100% safe in saying the Church is wrong about homosexuality-they didn't vote on this new policy, they didn't offer it up to the body of the Church, they just did it. "
"It looks like some of the church is being infiltrated by those with homosexual preferences as they said they would..."
"There is no where else to go; regardless of the corruption and false doctrine being taught that does not conform to scripture."
"I'm absolutely sure as society gets more and more wicked my concerns about the Church and corruption will grow."
"I do not believe in some ways they teach the true nature of man as explained in the scriptures. "
"they simply do not teach the true nature of the fallen man in regards to this issue (and in one or two other areas . . . but that is relatively minor) according to Scripture."
"I absolutely fully sustain them as Prophets, Apostles (which are offices in the Priesthood) and such even IF what they teach is not in line with scripture "
"I do believe that it is possible theologically they are losing the power of the Priesthood; I think this is self-evident as the culture of the Church is fracturing dramatically that can only happen through unrighteousness both of the people and of the leaders."
"Yes, a completely legalistic statement from Oaks."

I see lots of hate for sin, I don’t see any hate for people. You think that they’re mutually exclusive and they’re not. I hate sin, even homosexual behavior. I don’t hate people, even practicing homosexuals.

What we say has the potential to become our actions. You can see there is some thoughts about the Leaders being wrong.

Yes and if you read my exchange with mgridle you see that I don’t agree the leaders are wrong. My question was about why you think we or I hate homosexuals simply because we believe homosexual behavior is a sin. If you think the leaders are right then you should know they hold the same position.

Then you'll be in massive shock when in the next few years (if it takes that long) when they explicitly say homosexuality is fine, just don't have sex. They have implicitly said it now.

More reading for you; I don't make this up. From Stake Leadership . . .
--------
This Sunday my stake president has invited me to be with him as he speaks to the stake’s teenagers about “same sex attraction.” I will be telling them all that I’m gay (many adults know but I think only a few of the youth currently know).

I very much want to say something directly to the LGBT youth who’ll be in attendance. Here’s the points I want to make. Please feel free to send me your ideas of what else I should include.

- Being gay or trans is okay. Both are natural variations of being human

- Being gay does NOT mean you are broken or defective. It is not bad nor is it a sin

- God made you and me as glorious eternal beings. He didn’t create us to fail, he is rooting for us.

- There’s no pressure or schedule for coming out of the closet. It is a process and until you’re ready to tell others, please don’t feel guilty for being in the closet

- Coming out is one of the hardest things a person does in this life. That this is a common experience for us shows the bravery of people like you and me

- You need a trusted adult in your life to whom you feel safe asking questions, telling your feelings, doubts and fears
– Will suggest several people (including me) if they don’t feel they can yet talk with their parents.
– Will share how it went when I came out to the stake president, I want them to have an idea of how that will go

- You have allies in your ward, they just don’t yet know to reach out to you

- There will also be people who can’t see your worth. Don’t let yourself be one of them.

- This is your church, too. Stake a claim to the blessings if you want them

- There’s hard times ahead. Suicide and depression rates are high. Get help. No shame in therapy (Last year was a rough one for me, I’m currently meeting with a psychologist and it helps).

- Even though there’ll be hard times, as those challenges come, you’ll face them and find you measure up

- Many tough decisions ahead of you, don’t need to tackle them all now. You don’t need to have everything figured out

- You may have questions & doubts about the church and opinions different from the ‘Brethren,’ that’s okay. Even with those you can still have a testimony and be a good member.
– If something doesn’t feel right, don’t ignore that feeling
– In those situations I ask myself these 3 questions
— “Does that sound like me, do I resemble that remark?”
— “Does this sound like the God that I know?”
— “Does this fit with the great commandment to love one another?”

- You can’t pray the gay away, it doesn’t work that way, but you can pray to know about your path

- Our pathway is less traveled and not well marked, we will trip and stumble, but we look out for each other.

- You have claim to two great histories and legacies–LDS & LGBT+
– Both the queer community and LDS church, in different ways, teach me about being kind and accepting others.

- Get some LGBT+ friends. Especially helpful if you can get some queer Mormon friends because they’ll get you in a way no one else does.

- Forgive and try not to carry around all the hurtful things. Allow people to grow and change.

- Things get better. As you get older, you get more control of your decisions and you’ll find people who like and love you
– In my life, being gay has turned from a curse to a blessing. God uses me to befriend the friendless and comfort the comfortless
– This intense empathy is a result of my experience as a gay Mormon

- Remember G.A.Y.–God Adores You

[mgridle1]

No sin, no repentance no turning to Christ . . .it's just "love", which really means you must accept me and say that I am perfect just the way I am. Not's not true love, it's counterfeit love.

And notice, there is absolutely 0 obligation on the part of the homosexual to do ANYTHING different, zero, zip, nada, nothing. In their messed up world it is everyone ELSE who must change, you MUST love me differently, you MUST accept me, if you don't YOU are a bad person.

No responsibility for the sinner, all responsibility to everyone else. Homosexuality is the epitome of self-centeredness. I don't know that there is anything else out there that is so self-centered than homosexuality.

[ElizaRSkousen]

I see lots of hate for sin, I don’t see any hate for people. You think that they’re mutually exclusive and they’re not. I hate sin, even homosexual behavior. I don’t hate people, even practicing homosexuals.

What we say has the potential to become our actions. You can see there is some thoughts about the Leaders being wrong.

Yes and if you read my exchange with mgridle you see that I don’t agree the leaders are wrong. My question was about why you think we or I hate homosexuals simply because we believe homosexual behavior is a sin. If you think the leaders are right then you should know they hold the same position.

Then you'll be in massive shock when in the next few years (if it takes that long) when they explicitly say homosexuality is fine, just don't have sex. They have implicitly said it now.

More reading for you; I don't make this up. From Stake Leadership . . .
--------
This Sunday my stake president has invited me to be with him as he speaks to the stake’s teenagers about “same sex attraction.” I will be telling them all that I’m gay (many adults know but I think only a few of the youth currently know).

I very much want to say something directly to the LGBT youth who’ll be in attendance. Here’s the points I want to make. Please feel free to send me your ideas of what else I should include.

- Being gay or trans is okay. Both are natural variations of being human

- Being gay does NOT mean you are broken or defective. It is not bad nor is it a sin

- God made you and me as glorious eternal beings. He didn’t create us to fail, he is rooting for us.

- There’s no pressure or schedule for coming out of the closet. It is a process and until you’re ready to tell others, please don’t feel guilty for being in the closet

- Coming out is one of the hardest things a person does in this life. That this is a common experience for us shows the bravery of people like you and me

- You need a trusted adult in your life to whom you feel safe asking questions, telling your feelings, doubts and fears
– Will suggest several people (including me) if they don’t feel they can yet talk with their parents.
– Will share how it went when I came out to the stake president, I want them to have an idea of how that will go

- You have allies in your ward, they just don’t yet know to reach out to you

- There will also be people who can’t see your worth. Don’t let yourself be one of them.

- This is your church, too. Stake a claim to the blessings if you want them

- There’s hard times ahead. Suicide and depression rates are high. Get help. No shame in therapy (Last year was a rough one for me, I’m currently meeting with a psychologist and it helps).

- Even though there’ll be hard times, as those challenges come, you’ll face them and find you measure up

- Many tough decisions ahead of you, don’t need to tackle them all now. You don’t need to have everything figured out

- You may have questions & doubts about the church and opinions different from the ‘Brethren,’ that’s okay. Even with those you can still have a testimony and be a good member.
– If something doesn’t feel right, don’t ignore that feeling
– In those situations I ask myself these 3 questions
— “Does that sound like me, do I resemble that remark?”
— “Does this sound like the God that I know?”
— “Does this fit with the great commandment to love one another?”

- You can’t pray the gay away, it doesn’t work that way, but you can pray to know about your path

- Our pathway is less traveled and not well marked, we will trip and stumble, but we look out for each other.

- You have claim to two great histories and legacies–LDS & LGBT+
– Both the queer community and LDS church, in different ways, teach me about being kind and accepting others.

- Get some LGBT+ friends. Especially helpful if you can get some queer Mormon friends because they’ll get you in a way no one else does.

- Forgive and try not to carry around all the hurtful things. Allow people to grow and change.

- Things get better. As you get older, you get more control of your decisions and you’ll find people who like and love you
– In my life, being gay has turned from a curse to a blessing. God uses me to befriend the friendless and comfort the comfortless
– This intense empathy is a result of my experience as a gay Mormon

- Remember G.A.Y.–God Adores You

I can see it in the future ensigns now... *sigh

[mgridle1]

What we say has the potential to become our actions. You can see there is some thoughts about the Leaders being wrong.

Yes and if you read my exchange with mgridle you see that I don’t agree the leaders are wrong. My question was about why you think we or I hate homosexuals simply because we believe homosexual behavior is a sin. If you think the leaders are right then you should know they hold the same position.

Then you'll be in massive shock when in the next few years (if it takes that long) when they explicitly say homosexuality is fine, just don't have sex. They have implicitly said it now.

More reading for you; I don't make this up. From Stake Leadership . . .
--------
This Sunday my stake president has invited me to be with him as he speaks to the stake’s teenagers about “same sex attraction.” I will be telling them all that I’m gay (many adults know but I think only a few of the youth currently know).

I very much want to say something directly to the LGBT youth who’ll be in attendance. Here’s the points I want to make. Please feel free to send me your ideas of what else I should include.

- Being gay or trans is okay. Both are natural variations of being human

- Being gay does NOT mean you are broken or defective. It is not bad nor is it a sin

- God made you and me as glorious eternal beings. He didn’t create us to fail, he is rooting for us.

- There’s no pressure or schedule for coming out of the closet. It is a process and until you’re ready to tell others, please don’t feel guilty for being in the closet

- Coming out is one of the hardest things a person does in this life. That this is a common experience for us shows the bravery of people like you and me

- You need a trusted adult in your life to whom you feel safe asking questions, telling your feelings, doubts and fears
– Will suggest several people (including me) if they don’t feel they can yet talk with their parents.
– Will share how it went when I came out to the stake president, I want them to have an idea of how that will go

- You have allies in your ward, they just don’t yet know to reach out to you

- There will also be people who can’t see your worth. Don’t let yourself be one of them.

- This is your church, too. Stake a claim to the blessings if you want them

- There’s hard times ahead. Suicide and depression rates are high. Get help. No shame in therapy (Last year was a rough one for me, I’m currently meeting with a psychologist and it helps).

- Even though there’ll be hard times, as those challenges come, you’ll face them and find you measure up

- Many tough decisions ahead of you, don’t need to tackle them all now. You don’t need to have everything figured out

- You may have questions & doubts about the church and opinions different from the ‘Brethren,’ that’s okay. Even with those you can still have a testimony and be a good member.
– If something doesn’t feel right, don’t ignore that feeling
– In those situations I ask myself these 3 questions
— “Does that sound like me, do I resemble that remark?”
— “Does this sound like the God that I know?”
— “Does this fit with the great commandment to love one another?”

- You can’t pray the gay away, it doesn’t work that way, but you can pray to know about your path

- Our pathway is less traveled and not well marked, we will trip and stumble, but we look out for each other.

- You have claim to two great histories and legacies–LDS & LGBT+
– Both the queer community and LDS church, in different ways, teach me about being kind and accepting others.

- Get some LGBT+ friends. Especially helpful if you can get some queer Mormon friends because they’ll get you in a way no one else does.

- Forgive and try not to carry around all the hurtful things. Allow people to grow and change.

- Things get better. As you get older, you get more control of your decisions and you’ll find people who like and love you
– In my life, being gay has turned from a curse to a blessing. God uses me to befriend the friendless and comfort the comfortless
– This intense empathy is a result of my experience as a gay Mormon

- Remember G.A.Y.–God Adores You

I can see it in the future ensigns now... *sigh

Oh yeah . . .well the Ensign has started to go down the tubes, too many fluff pieces no doctrine, it's becoming just a cultural rag.

There are still plenty of really, really good pieces in it, but not like it used to be.

[Arenera]

I see lots of hate for sin, I don’t see any hate for people. You think that they’re mutually exclusive and they’re not. I hate sin, even homosexual behavior. I don’t hate people, even practicing homosexuals.

What we say has the potential to become our actions. You can see there is some thoughts about the Leaders being wrong.

Yes and if you read my exchange with mgridle you see that I don’t agree the leaders are wrong. My question was about why you think we or I hate homosexuals simply because we believe homosexual behavior is a sin. If you think the leaders are right then you should know they hold the same position.

Then you'll be in massive shock when in the next few years (if it takes that long) when they explicitly say homosexuality is fine, just don't have sex. They have implicitly said it now.

More reading for you; I don't make this up. From Stake Leadership . . .
--------
This Sunday my stake president has invited me to be with him as he speaks to the stake’s teenagers about “same sex attraction.” I will be telling them all that I’m gay (many adults know but I think only a few of the youth currently know).

I very much want to say something directly to the LGBT youth who’ll be in attendance. Here’s the points I want to make. Please feel free to send me your ideas of what else I should include.

- Being gay or trans is okay. Both are natural variations of being human

- Being gay does NOT mean you are broken or defective. It is not bad nor is it a sin

- God made you and me as glorious eternal beings. He didn’t create us to fail, he is rooting for us.

- There’s no pressure or schedule for coming out of the closet. It is a process and until you’re ready to tell others, please don’t feel guilty for being in the closet

- Coming out is one of the hardest things a person does in this life. That this is a common experience for us shows the bravery of people like you and me

- You need a trusted adult in your life to whom you feel safe asking questions, telling your feelings, doubts and fears
– Will suggest several people (including me) if they don’t feel they can yet talk with their parents.
– Will share how it went when I came out to the stake president, I want them to have an idea of how that will go

- You have allies in your ward, they just don’t yet know to reach out to you

- There will also be people who can’t see your worth. Don’t let yourself be one of them.

- This is your church, too. Stake a claim to the blessings if you want them

- There’s hard times ahead. Suicide and depression rates are high. Get help. No shame in therapy (Last year was a rough one for me, I’m currently meeting with a psychologist and it helps).

- Even though there’ll be hard times, as those challenges come, you’ll face them and find you measure up

- Many tough decisions ahead of you, don’t need to tackle them all now. You don’t need to have everything figured out

- You may have questions & doubts about the church and opinions different from the ‘Brethren,’ that’s okay. Even with those you can still have a testimony and be a good member.
– If something doesn’t feel right, don’t ignore that feeling
– In those situations I ask myself these 3 questions
— “Does that sound like me, do I resemble that remark?”
— “Does this sound like the God that I know?”
— “Does this fit with the great commandment to love one another?”

- You can’t pray the gay away, it doesn’t work that way, but you can pray to know about your path

- Our pathway is less traveled and not well marked, we will trip and stumble, but we look out for each other.

- You have claim to two great histories and legacies–LDS & LGBT+
– Both the queer community and LDS church, in different ways, teach me about being kind and accepting others.

- Get some LGBT+ friends. Especially helpful if you can get some queer Mormon friends because they’ll get you in a way no one else does.

- Forgive and try not to carry around all the hurtful things. Allow people to grow and change.

- Things get better. As you get older, you get more control of your decisions and you’ll find people who like and love you
– In my life, being gay has turned from a curse to a blessing. God uses me to befriend the friendless and comfort the comfortless
– This intense empathy is a result of my experience as a gay Mormon

- Remember G.A.Y.–God Adores You

How would you handle it? What would you say?

[nightlight]

What we say has the potential to become our actions. You can see there is some thoughts about the Leaders being wrong.

Yes and if you read my exchange with mgridle you see that I don’t agree the leaders are wrong. My question was about why you think we or I hate homosexuals simply because we believe homosexual behavior is a sin. If you think the leaders are right then you should know they hold the same position.

Then you'll be in massive shock when in the next few years (if it takes that long) when they explicitly say homosexuality is fine, just don't have sex. They have implicitly said it now.

More reading for you; I don't make this up. From Stake Leadership . . .
--------
This Sunday my stake president has invited me to be with him as he speaks to the stake’s teenagers about “same sex attraction.” I will be telling them all that I’m gay (many adults know but I think only a few of the youth currently know).

I very much want to say something directly to the LGBT youth who’ll be in attendance. Here’s the points I want to make. Please feel free to send me your ideas of what else I should include.

- Being gay or trans is okay. Both are natural variations of being human

- Being gay does NOT mean you are broken or defective. It is not bad nor is it a sin

- God made you and me as glorious eternal beings. He didn’t create us to fail, he is rooting for us.

- There’s no pressure or schedule for coming out of the closet. It is a process and until you’re ready to tell others, please don’t feel guilty for being in the closet

- Coming out is one of the hardest things a person does in this life. That this is a common experience for us shows the bravery of people like you and me

- You need a trusted adult in your life to whom you feel safe asking questions, telling your feelings, doubts and fears
– Will suggest several people (including me) if they don’t feel they can yet talk with their parents.
– Will share how it went when I came out to the stake president, I want them to have an idea of how that will go

- You have allies in your ward, they just don’t yet know to reach out to you

- There will also be people who can’t see your worth. Don’t let yourself be one of them.

- This is your church, too. Stake a claim to the blessings if you want them

- There’s hard times ahead. Suicide and depression rates are high. Get help. No shame in therapy (Last year was a rough one for me, I’m currently meeting with a psychologist and it helps).

- Even though there’ll be hard times, as those challenges come, you’ll face them and find you measure up

- Many tough decisions ahead of you, don’t need to tackle them all now. You don’t need to have everything figured out

- You may have questions & doubts about the church and opinions different from the ‘Brethren,’ that’s okay. Even with those you can still have a testimony and be a good member.
– If something doesn’t feel right, don’t ignore that feeling
– In those situations I ask myself these 3 questions
— “Does that sound like me, do I resemble that remark?”
— “Does this sound like the God that I know?”
— “Does this fit with the great commandment to love one another?”

- You can’t pray the gay away, it doesn’t work that way, but you can pray to know about your path

- Our pathway is less traveled and not well marked, we will trip and stumble, but we look out for each other.

- You have claim to two great histories and legacies–LDS & LGBT+
– Both the queer community and LDS church, in different ways, teach me about being kind and accepting others.

- Get some LGBT+ friends. Especially helpful if you can get some queer Mormon friends because they’ll get you in a way no one else does.

- Forgive and try not to carry around all the hurtful things. Allow people to grow and change.

- Things get better. As you get older, you get more control of your decisions and you’ll find people who like and love you
– In my life, being gay has turned from a curse to a blessing. God uses me to befriend the friendless and comfort the comfortless
– This intense empathy is a result of my experience as a gay Mormon

- Remember G.A.Y.–God Adores You

How would you handle it? What would you say?

How would you handle it? What would you say?

[Arenera]

Yes and if you read my exchange with mgridle you see that I don’t agree the leaders are wrong. My question was about why you think we or I hate homosexuals simply because we believe homosexual behavior is a sin. If you think the leaders are right then you should know they hold the same position.

Then you'll be in massive shock when in the next few years (if it takes that long) when they explicitly say homosexuality is fine, just don't have sex. They have implicitly said it now.

More reading for you; I don't make this up. From Stake Leadership . . .
--------
This Sunday my stake president has invited me to be with him as he speaks to the stake’s teenagers about “same sex attraction.” I will be telling them all that I’m gay (many adults know but I think only a few of the youth currently know).

I very much want to say something directly to the LGBT youth who’ll be in attendance. Here’s the points I want to make. Please feel free to send me your ideas of what else I should include.

- Being gay or trans is okay. Both are natural variations of being human

- Being gay does NOT mean you are broken or defective. It is not bad nor is it a sin

- God made you and me as glorious eternal beings. He didn’t create us to fail, he is rooting for us.

- There’s no pressure or schedule for coming out of the closet. It is a process and until you’re ready to tell others, please don’t feel guilty for being in the closet

- Coming out is one of the hardest things a person does in this life. That this is a common experience for us shows the bravery of people like you and me

- You need a trusted adult in your life to whom you feel safe asking questions, telling your feelings, doubts and fears
– Will suggest several people (including me) if they don’t feel they can yet talk with their parents.
– Will share how it went when I came out to the stake president, I want them to have an idea of how that will go

- You have allies in your ward, they just don’t yet know to reach out to you

- There will also be people who can’t see your worth. Don’t let yourself be one of them.

- This is your church, too. Stake a claim to the blessings if you want them

- There’s hard times ahead. Suicide and depression rates are high. Get help. No shame in therapy (Last year was a rough one for me, I’m currently meeting with a psychologist and it helps).

- Even though there’ll be hard times, as those challenges come, you’ll face them and find you measure up

- Many tough decisions ahead of you, don’t need to tackle them all now. You don’t need to have everything figured out

- You may have questions & doubts about the church and opinions different from the ‘Brethren,’ that’s okay. Even with those you can still have a testimony and be a good member.
– If something doesn’t feel right, don’t ignore that feeling
– In those situations I ask myself these 3 questions
— “Does that sound like me, do I resemble that remark?”
— “Does this sound like the God that I know?”
— “Does this fit with the great commandment to love one another?”

- You can’t pray the gay away, it doesn’t work that way, but you can pray to know about your path

- Our pathway is less traveled and not well marked, we will trip and stumble, but we look out for each other.

- You have claim to two great histories and legacies–LDS & LGBT+
– Both the queer community and LDS church, in different ways, teach me about being kind and accepting others.

- Get some LGBT+ friends. Especially helpful if you can get some queer Mormon friends because they’ll get you in a way no one else does.

- Forgive and try not to carry around all the hurtful things. Allow people to grow and change.

- Things get better. As you get older, you get more control of your decisions and you’ll find people who like and love you
– In my life, being gay has turned from a curse to a blessing. God uses me to befriend the friendless and comfort the comfortless
– This intense empathy is a result of my experience as a gay Mormon

- Remember G.A.Y.–God Adores You

How would you handle it? What would you say?

How would you handle it? What would you say?

Same as leaders.

[nightlight]

Then you'll be in massive shock when in the next few years (if it takes that long) when they explicitly say homosexuality is fine, just don't have sex. They have implicitly said it now.

More reading for you; I don't make this up. From Stake Leadership . . .
--------
This Sunday my stake president has invited me to be with him as he speaks to the stake’s teenagers about “same sex attraction.” I will be telling them all that I’m gay (many adults know but I think only a few of the youth currently know).

I very much want to say something directly to the LGBT youth who’ll be in attendance. Here’s the points I want to make. Please feel free to send me your ideas of what else I should include.

- Being gay or trans is okay. Both are natural variations of being human

- Being gay does NOT mean you are broken or defective. It is not bad nor is it a sin

- God made you and me as glorious eternal beings. He didn’t create us to fail, he is rooting for us.

- There’s no pressure or schedule for coming out of the closet. It is a process and until you’re ready to tell others, please don’t feel guilty for being in the closet

- Coming out is one of the hardest things a person does in this life. That this is a common experience for us shows the bravery of people like you and me

- You need a trusted adult in your life to whom you feel safe asking questions, telling your feelings, doubts and fears
– Will suggest several people (including me) if they don’t feel they can yet talk with their parents.
– Will share how it went when I came out to the stake president, I want them to have an idea of how that will go

- You have allies in your ward, they just don’t yet know to reach out to you

- There will also be people who can’t see your worth. Don’t let yourself be one of them.

- This is your church, too. Stake a claim to the blessings if you want them

- There’s hard times ahead. Suicide and depression rates are high. Get help. No shame in therapy (Last year was a rough one for me, I’m currently meeting with a psychologist and it helps).

- Even though there’ll be hard times, as those challenges come, you’ll face them and find you measure up

- Many tough decisions ahead of you, don’t need to tackle them all now. You don’t need to have everything figured out

- You may have questions & doubts about the church and opinions different from the ‘Brethren,’ that’s okay. Even with those you can still have a testimony and be a good member.
– If something doesn’t feel right, don’t ignore that feeling
– In those situations I ask myself these 3 questions
— “Does that sound like me, do I resemble that remark?”
— “Does this sound like the God that I know?”
— “Does this fit with the great commandment to love one another?”

- You can’t pray the gay away, it doesn’t work that way, but you can pray to know about your path

- Our pathway is less traveled and not well marked, we will trip and stumble, but we look out for each other.

- You have claim to two great histories and legacies–LDS & LGBT+
– Both the queer community and LDS church, in different ways, teach me about being kind and accepting others.

- Get some LGBT+ friends. Especially helpful if you can get some queer Mormon friends because they’ll get you in a way no one else does.

- Forgive and try not to carry around all the hurtful things. Allow people to grow and change.

- Things get better. As you get older, you get more control of your decisions and you’ll find people who like and love you
– In my life, being gay has turned from a curse to a blessing. God uses me to befriend the friendless and comfort the comfortless
– This intense empathy is a result of my experience as a gay Mormon

- Remember G.A.Y.–God Adores You

How would you handle it? What would you say?

How would you handle it? What would you say?

Same as leaders.

How would they handle it? What would they say?

[EmmaLee]

Then you'll be in massive shock when in the next few years (if it takes that long) when they explicitly say homosexuality is fine, just don't have sex. They have implicitly said it now.

More reading for you; I don't make this up. From Stake Leadership . . .
--------
This Sunday my stake president has invited me to be with him as he speaks to the stake’s teenagers about “same sex attraction.” I will be telling them all that I’m gay (many adults know but I think only a few of the youth currently know).

I very much want to say something directly to the LGBT youth who’ll be in attendance. Here’s the points I want to make. Please feel free to send me your ideas of what else I should include.

- Being gay or trans is okay. Both are natural variations of being human

- Being gay does NOT mean you are broken or defective. It is not bad nor is it a sin

- God made you and me as glorious eternal beings. He didn’t create us to fail, he is rooting for us.

- There’s no pressure or schedule for coming out of the closet. It is a process and until you’re ready to tell others, please don’t feel guilty for being in the closet

- Coming out is one of the hardest things a person does in this life. That this is a common experience for us shows the bravery of people like you and me

- You need a trusted adult in your life to whom you feel safe asking questions, telling your feelings, doubts and fears
– Will suggest several people (including me) if they don’t feel they can yet talk with their parents.
– Will share how it went when I came out to the stake president, I want them to have an idea of how that will go

- You have allies in your ward, they just don’t yet know to reach out to you

- There will also be people who can’t see your worth. Don’t let yourself be one of them.

- This is your church, too. Stake a claim to the blessings if you want them

- There’s hard times ahead. Suicide and depression rates are high. Get help. No shame in therapy (Last year was a rough one for me, I’m currently meeting with a psychologist and it helps).

- Even though there’ll be hard times, as those challenges come, you’ll face them and find you measure up

- Many tough decisions ahead of you, don’t need to tackle them all now. You don’t need to have everything figured out

- You may have questions & doubts about the church and opinions different from the ‘Brethren,’ that’s okay. Even with those you can still have a testimony and be a good member.
– If something doesn’t feel right, don’t ignore that feeling
– In those situations I ask myself these 3 questions
— “Does that sound like me, do I resemble that remark?”
— “Does this sound like the God that I know?”
— “Does this fit with the great commandment to love one another?”

- You can’t pray the gay away, it doesn’t work that way, but you can pray to know about your path

- Our pathway is less traveled and not well marked, we will trip and stumble, but we look out for each other.

- You have claim to two great histories and legacies–LDS & LGBT+
– Both the queer community and LDS church, in different ways, teach me about being kind and accepting others.

- Get some LGBT+ friends. Especially helpful if you can get some queer Mormon friends because they’ll get you in a way no one else does.

- Forgive and try not to carry around all the hurtful things. Allow people to grow and change.

- Things get better. As you get older, you get more control of your decisions and you’ll find people who like and love you
– In my life, being gay has turned from a curse to a blessing. God uses me to befriend the friendless and comfort the comfortless
– This intense empathy is a result of my experience as a gay Mormon

- Remember G.A.Y.–God Adores You

How would you handle it? What would you say?

How would you handle it? What would you say?

Same as leaders.

Here's what the leaders say -

https://www.lds.org/pages/church-handbo ... s?lang=eng

THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
OFFICE OF THE FIRST PRESIDENCY
47 EAST SOUTH TEMPLE STREET, SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH 84150-1200

November 13, 2015

To: General Authorities; Area Seventies; General Auxiliary Presidencies; Stake, District, Mission, and Temple Presidents; Bishops and Branch Presidents

Dear Brethren and Sisters:

The Council of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles provides the following guidance in applying provisions on same-gender marriage recently added to Handbook 1:

Revealed doctrine is clear that families are eternal in nature and purpose. We are obligated to act with that perspective for the welfare of both adults and children. The newly added Handbook provisions affirm that adults who choose to enter into a same-gender marriage or similar relationship commit sin that warrants a Church disciplinary council.

~~~

May the Lord continue to bless you in your ministry.

Sincerely yours,
The First Presidency

AND -

Handbook 2:
Administering the Church

21.4.5
Chastity and Fidelity

The Lord’s law of chastity is abstinence from sexual relations outside of lawful marriage and fidelity within marriage. Sexual relations are proper only between a man and a woman who are legally and lawfully wedded as husband and wife. Adultery, fornication, homosexual or lesbian relations, and every other unholy, unnatural, or impure practice are sinful. Members who violate the Lord’s law of chastity or who influence others to do so are subject to Church discipline.

21.4.6
Homosexual Behavior and Same-Gender Attraction

Homosexual behavior violates the commandments of God, is contrary to the purposes of human sexuality, and deprives people of the blessings that can be found in family life and in the saving ordinances of the gospel. Those who persist in such behavior or who influence others to do so are subject to Church discipline. Homosexual behavior can be forgiven through sincere repentance.

If members engage in homosexual behavior, Church leaders should help them have a clear understanding of faith in Jesus Christ, the process of repentance, and the purpose of life on earth.

AND -

Handbook 1, number 6.7.2 has been updated as follows (addition is highlighted):

When a Disciplinary Council May Be Necessary

Serious Transgression

. . . It includes (but is not limited to) attempted murder, forcible rape, sexual abuse, spouse abuse, intentional serious physical injury of others, adultery, fornication, homosexual relations (especially sexual cohabitation), deliberate abandonment of family responsibilities, . . .

Handbook 1, number 6.7.3 has been updated as follows (addition is highlighted):

When a Disciplinary Council is Mandatory

Apostasy

As used here, apostasy refers to members who:
1. Repeatedly act in clear, open, and deliberate public opposition to the Church or its leaders.
2. Persist in teaching as Church doctrine information that is not Church doctrine after they have been corrected by their bishop or a higher authority.
3. Continue to follow the teachings of apostate sects (such as those that advocate plural marriage) after being corrected by their bishop or a higher authority.
4. Are in a same-gender marriage.
5. Formally join another church and advocate its teachings.

[Arenera]

How would you handle it? What would you say?

How would you handle it? What would you say?

Same as leaders.

How would they handle it? What would they say?

Read the story. StakePresidents and Bishops are leaders also.

[Lizzy60]

Some Bishops have had affairs while serving as Bishop (my brother's ward). Some Stake Presidents have been convicted of solicitation of a minor for sex (my friend's brother-in-law). I don't take what an individual bishop or stake president may do in their home ward or stake as church doctrine, or as approved by the Top 15, or the Lord. They could be going completely off the rails.

Discernment, the Holy Spirit, scripture. Better than a "man" any day.

[nightlight]

How would you handle it? What would you say?

Same as leaders.

How would they handle it? What would they say?

Read the story. StakePresidents and Bishops are leaders also.

The day you give your uninhibited opinion...I'll lol for joy

[Rand]

How would you handle it? What would you say?

Same as leaders.

How would they handle it? What would they say?

Read the story. StakePresidents and Bishops are leaders also.

None of them are perfect. But, I would like to see one who in the role as Bishop or SP directly defies the Lord. Not just in their life in general, but directly in their role as a servant of the Lord. I would like to see what the Lord does to them, and I am pretty sure he would take direct control of the situation.

[ElizaRSkousen]

Same as leaders.

How would they handle it? What would they say?

Read the story. StakePresidents and Bishops are leaders also.

None of them are perfect. But, I would like to see one who in the role as Bishop or SP directly defies the Lord. Not just in their life in general, but directly in their role as a servant of the Lord. I would like to see what the Lord does to them, and I am pretty sure he would take direct control of the situation.

I actually don't think he would take direct control of the situation yet unfortunately.

[abijah]

How would they handle it? What would they say?

Read the story. StakePresidents and Bishops are leaders also.

None of them are perfect. But, I would like to see one who in the role as Bishop or SP directly defies the Lord. Not just in their life in general, but directly in their role as a servant of the Lord. I would like to see what the Lord does to them, and I am pretty sure he would take direct control of the situation.

I actually don't think he would take direct control of the situation yet unfortunately.

Agreed, “yet” being the keyword.

[The Airbender]

Entities cause, in great part, homosexuality. Also suicidal thoughts and tendencies. She's afflicted with unclean spirits.

I'm confused, what are you talking about?

Entities as in unclean spirits and unembodied spirits.

The first promise to those who believe is that they will cast out spirits in the name of Christ. Jesus spent a lot of time casting out unclean spirits but we like to pretend they aren't a problem today.