LDS Freedom Forum

I need to jump in here. In General Conference of October 2001 President Hinckley said that the prophecy in Joel 2:28-32 has been fulfilled. Theses are the verses that talk about the sun being darkened and the moon turning to blood etc. We are beyond that now. Go back and read his talk. It was his Saturday message.

friendsofthe wrote: ↑July 25th, 2018, 11:25 am I personally don't believe these localized blood moons have anything to do with what we have in scripture.

Note that in scripture the blood moon is not an isolated sign, it is always accompanied with the sun being darkened and stars falling.

Also, I think when the real deal comes along the sign will be viewable worldwide....

... So clearly anything involving a red moon / eclipse happening on Israel's holy days are meaningless because Joel?

Did President Hinckley say there's no more signs involving the moon? The moon is an important, sacred symbol. Do a word search for moon in the D&C. And even though friendsofthe is correct that the moon turning into blood is given along with the sun being darkened, do we know if the sun and moon signs happen on the same day? Within the same year? Do these many scriptures indicate whether the moon turns into blood on one day or several or all within one year? Can we have meaningful signs regarding the moon that don't involve Joel such as Revelation 12?

If so, why are there so many eager to declare the many, many references to the moon turning into blood as though this is over and done with and looking towards the moon is no longer required? I find it quite odd, though I can imagine perhaps this helps one feel excused from the clear responsibility we have to look for the signs of the times (see D&C scriptures already shared in this thread.)

Multiple modern prophets have referred to a red color because of smoke and vapors. And I believe the title of this thread is accurate: because of wildfires people in some parts of the world have seen blood moons for over a full week.

Alaris, nobody suggested there will be no more signs involving the moon. Merriner and I are both choosing to stand with properly called, ordained, and sustained prophets against those who are enticed by men mingling their own philosophies and opinions with scripture with regard to lunar eclipses.

Of course you are free to place the teachings of John Hagee above the teachings of Gordon Hinckley, but you shouldn't be surprised or bothered when people who sustained Gordon Hinckley follow his teachings.
If you choose to follow Hagee, you'll find his book "Four Blood Moons: Something Is About To Change" is considerably cheaper than the perpetual 10% of your income that following Hinckley's teachings will cost.

brianj wrote: ↑October 4th, 2018, 9:05 pm Multiple modern prophets have referred to a red color because of smoke and vapors. And I believe the title of this thread is accurate: because of wildfires people in some parts of the world have seen blood moons for over a full week.

Alaris, nobody suggested there will be no more signs involving the moon. Merriner and I are both choosing to stand with properly called, ordained, and sustained prophets against those who are enticed by men mingling their own philosophies and opinions with scripture with regard to lunar eclipses.

Of course you are free to place the teachings of John Hagee above the teachings of Gordon Hinckley, but you shouldn't be surprised or bothered when people who sustained Gordon Hinckley follow his teachings.
If you choose to follow Hagee, you'll find his book "Four Blood Moons: Something Is About To Change" is considerably cheaper than the perpetual 10% of your income that following Hinckley's teachings will cost.

brianj, Alaris didn't say anything about disregarding the words of Gordon B Hinkley. I and others can stand with the Prophets as you claim while also examining other sources for additional information. The two viewpoints are not mutually exclusive, stop treating this as a black and white field, very few things are actually binary in nature.

Prophets have their own opinions and understandings, some of which may very well be flawed. Nevertheless, their understanding of these situations is valuable, when it is imparted by the spirit. If Alaris finds additional depth and insight from examining sources in addition to our own Priesthood Leaders (especially if he is being led by the Spirit), then that is his prerogative, and the fruit of it will be good (even if it takes a while to manifest). Personally, I feel that his words deserve some merit, whether or not you believe him. Discussions like this are part of the reason why I and many others joined this forum in the first place. Shutting down a conversation with words like this does no good whatsoever.

Durzan wrote: ↑October 5th, 2018, 10:52 pm brianj, Alaris didn't say anything about disregarding the words of Gordon B Hinkley. I and others can stand with the Prophets as you claim while also examining other sources for additional information. The two viewpoints are not mutually exclusive, stop treating this as a black and white field, very few things are actually binary in nature.

Prophets have their own opinions and understandings, some of which may very well be flawed. Nevertheless, their understanding of these situations is valuable, when it is imparted by the spirit. If Alaris finds additional depth and insight from examining sources in addition to our own Priesthood Leaders (especially if he is being led by the Spirit), then that is his prerogative, and the fruit of it will be good (even if it takes a while to manifest). Personally, I feel that his words deserve some merit, whether or not you believe him. Discussions like this are part of the reason why I and many others joined this forum in the first place. Shutting down a conversation with words like this does no good whatsoever.

I too appreciate the discussion, but I have difficulty with the concept that when a prophet of the Lord makes a statement and a paid minister makes a contradictory statement both can be true.

So on this subject we have the words of people faithful Latter-day Saints sustain as prophets saying that Joel was referring to seeing the moon through heavy smoke. We also have words of a paid minister, in a book that initially sold for $14.99, saying that Joel was explicitly referring to lunar eclipses and nothing else. This philosophy of a man has been used to attack me for supporting prophets (but note that I don't see your comment as an attack).

Let's turn to the teachings of scriptural prophets and modern prophets. Does anybody reading this know of any statements in scripture, the History of the Church, Journal of Discourses, Conference Reports, or other official church publications indicating that regular lunar eclipses, which have been mathematically predictable since the Mesopotamians discovered the Saros cycle in roughly 700 BC, have a prophetic significance?

It isn't a prophecy to say the Americas will witness total lunar eclipses on November 8, 2022 and January 1, 2048. If there is a prophetic significance to either of these eclipses, or any of the other upcoming solar and lunar eclipses, I would feel like it means we don't need faith because we have an accurate mathematical model to tell us exactly when these events are going to happen.

Conversely, we know natural disasters will happen but we don't know when. We know from revelation there will be a massive earthquake that shakes the entire planet, storms that drop hailstones the weight of a talent (about 75 pounds), floods, tsunamis, and so forth, but God hasn't given us everything we need to calculate exactly when and where these events will happen. The recent Indonesian tsunami was so unexpected that a warning had been lifted before it happened!


I am here in pursuit of knowledge. This knowledge almost always comes with a component of discussion and debate, as the points of view of other people open my eyes to principles I have not yet encountered or considered. If you have doctrinal insight into a spiritual significance of eclipses, please share the details. In return I can provide you with an exact date of what will happen. If someone believes the Second Coming will be in 2100 and accompanied by a total lunar eclipse then I have some bad news, as only penumbral eclipses will happen that year. If someone believes the Second Coming will be in 2100 and accompanied by a total solar eclipse, the date must be either March 10 or September 24.

On the other hand, if someone joins me in believing that prior to the Second Coming the Earth will be moved out of its present location in the solar system and Milky Way, they can share my belief that eclipses are a sign the time is not yet. When these things stop happening on schedule we can get excited.

I will conclude my long winded post by saying I am not trying to be argumentative or negative, and that I firmly believe that things happening with mathematically predictable regularity (eclipses, tides, sun and moon rise and set, full moons, new moons, seasons, et cetera) are signs the time is not yet and by reiterating my plea for information I am lacking if anybody reading my words has gospel teachings contradicting my belief on this or any other subject.