LDS Freedom Forum

Alaris wrote: ↑July 28th, 2018, 11:36 am

Red wrote: ↑July 28th, 2018, 7:59 am

Alaris wrote: ↑July 28th, 2018, 12:20 am

Red wrote: ↑July 27th, 2018, 11:56 pm

Lol yeah I loved hearing immigrant song in Thor. Also love GNR.

I love songs with little quips of eternal truth in them. I think Abijah and I were connecting on our mutual observance that stairway to heaven is special on a spiritual plane. Or maybe I’m wrong! Ha! We ended up there bc I believe something said in this thread got him thinking about something revealed to him about the song. Zeppelins jubilee year... but what his exact thoughts are, I am unsure.

Just a little aside: I have a great love for LZ bc I see a lot of spiritual connection in their music. I see this in the lord of the rings trilogy as well. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that some of LZs music was inspired by Tolkien bc I see a lot of spiritual connection in Tolkien’s works. There are nuggets of truth everywhere. It is because we were made by a Creator with incredible skill at weaving together complexities that point at eternal truths in such a way that it feels like coincidence. Except it isn’t coincidence. Our core being reveals these intricacies like clues (usually unknowingly or with limited knowledge) and they come out in our art, whether it’s painting, music, the written word, a gifted counselor.... anywhere and anyone. Or I could be a romanticist. Haha.

What a coincidence - Durzan and I were just talking the other day about the nuggets of truth in fiction. I've found the spirit flooring me lately at odd times while watching movies for example. In fact, as ridiculous as this sound there was a scene in Thor Ragnarok that brought me to tears.

OK, maybe this should have been a PM.

I cried a little when Gandalf rode his horse out to save Faramir as well ...

Which scene?

I can usually just hear the music and feel my chest swell til it wants to explode. It’s so funny bc I made a comment to my husband the other day when LOTR was on about how LOTR is so symbolic. Then I gave him the example of Gandalf being a Christ figure. So then he teased me the whole way through asking me who everyone represented. My fave was Gollum/Sméagol. I told him that represents our inner selves, a constant battle of choosing right or wrong and who we become when we make those choices. He decided to stop teasing me.

Well I'm really having to shift gears to answer this after my last reply. *ahem*

So in Return of the King, Faramir is sent out to those ruins on a suicide mission by his crazy father. He and the survivors are riding back to the white city and the ringwraiths are chasing them down from their flying beasts and picking them off one by one. Gandalf rides out and holds his staff up high and a bright white light shines out and chases them off. Makes me a bit emotional just writing about it -

A bit like Jesus Christ, eh?

a horrible setting/camera for a photo, but you can see how massive she is. and proper scarlet. absolutely gorgeous
on the other side i see mars burns bigger and redder than any star i ever saw

This was taken last night by my phone. AZ sky - you can see Mars to the bottom right of the moon.

Here's a video about something else, but the author mentions the blood moon near the end along with an interesting bit about Mars.

https://youtu.be/VYy3WG-931E?t=629

I can't embed the video where it should start, so I'm just linking it.

I saw a post about a Jewish holiday falling on a blood moon..

It is important to remember that the Jewish calendar is a lunar calendar. There will be plenty of blood/full/blue moons on Jewish holidays...

mmm..cheese wrote: ↑July 29th, 2018, 2:00 pm I saw a post about a Jewish holiday falling on a blood moon..

It is important to remember that the Jewish calendar is a lunar calendar. There will be plenty of blood/full/blue moons on Jewish holidays...

It is also important to remember that the same LORD who made the stars and the moon and set their orbits and patterns also made the Jewish Holy Days.

The 4 blood moons in 2014-2015 fall on the same two Jewish holy days. Passover / Feast of Tabernacles. These aren't like Halloween for Jews but the "Holy Days" (that's where the word holiday come from) as designated by the LORD. The Passover holy days were fulfilled in Jesus. The fall festivals are as of yet unfulfilled. Passover / Pentecost / Shavuot links the Spring to the Fall Festivals. There are seven primary holy days and they all take place in fall and spring in short order.

There are 8 tetrads since Christ.

"The last 2 of the 7 tetrads have very strong prophetic significance. Namely, the Tetrad of 1949/50 and the Tetrad of 1967/68." source

These days aligned to Judah returning and to the six day war where they finally controlled all of Jerusalem iirc

So perhaps the LORD who made the moon and stars and the holy days is trying to show us something when they match up like this.

I had forgotten that all planets were on one side of the sun during this blood moon. That's mentioned in the video I posted in an above post.

Also, as I pondered this blood moon and the minor Jewish holiday it falls upon, I realized the connection to the feast of tabernacles. There are two now that I'm looking at it more closely:

July 27th Tu B'Av / טו באב

According to the Mishna, Tu B'Av was a joyous holiday in the days of the Temple in Jerusalem, marking the beginning of the grape harvest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_B%27Av

That same year, the last of the generation of the sin of the spies, which had been forbidden to enter the Promised Land, found that they were not destined to die. For forty years, every Tisha B'av night, the Jews made graves for themselves in which they slept on Tisha B'Av; every year a proportion of them died. In the 40th year, the fifteen thousand who had remained from the first generation went to sleep in the graves and woke up the next day to their surprise. Thinking they made a mistake with the date, they did this until they reached Tu B'Av and saw a full moon. Only then did they know they were going to enter the Land of Israel with the new generation.

(same source above)

So we have the beginning of the harvest grapes and the last generation of Israelites who were forbidden from entering the promised land.

So, in true end times fashion, I'll start with the last point and finish with the first:

The Hebrew word sukkōt is the plural of sukkah, "booth" or "tabernacle", which is a walled structure covered with s'chach (plant material such as overgrowth or palm leaves). A sukkah is the name of the temporary dwelling in which farmers would live during harvesting, a fact connecting to the agricultural significance of the holiday stressed by the Book of Exodus. As stated in Leviticus, it is also intended as a reminiscence of the type of fragile dwellings in which the Israelites dwelt during their 40 years of travel in the desert after the Exodus from slavery in Egypt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukkot

So Israel was commanded to build small huts or "tabernacles" and live in them for 7 days, which symbolism is extremely interesting. The fall represents death in the rebirth cycle and Israel is commanded to leave their homes and live in a tiny hut for a week. Those are fun symbols to ponder. The tie to Tu B'Av is the 40 year sojourn where the death of the old generation signaled their day of deliverance. A blood moon falling on this day - I'm sure it's nothing.

For those of you just joining us, the 4 blood moons (tetrad) in 2014-2015 happened to fall on the same two Israel Holy Days - Feast of Tabernacles and Passover. We know the significance of Passover, but what does the Feast of Tabernacles - that is as of yet unfulfilled - represent?

Leviticus 23:33 ¶ And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
34 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the Lord.
35 On the first day shall be an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
36 Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord: it is a solemn assembly; and ye shall do no servile work therein.
37 These are the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day:
38 Beside the sabbaths of the Lord, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the Lord.
39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.
40 And ye shall take you on the first day the boughs of goodly trees, branches of palm trees, and the boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook; and ye shall rejoice before the Lord your God seven days.
41 And ye shall keep it a feast unto the Lord seven days in the year. It shall be a statute for ever in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month.
42 Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths:
43 That your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.
44 And Moses declared unto the children of Israel the feasts of the Lord.

Well there certainly is a harvest motif in the scriptures. Is there not a grape motif as well? Tu B'Av was the beginning of the harvest of grapes and the Feast of Tabernacles is the end of that harvest.

Deuteronomy 16:13 ¶ Thou shalt observe the feast of tabernacles seven days, after that thou hast gathered in thy corn and thy wine:

The grapes that were gathered are turned into wine.

Surely I'm just seeing shapes in the clouds here right? By looking at this sign in belief - where the Lord says that only those who look can see ... doesn't mean anything right? I mean, even though the Lord said that only those who look will see, and the ties to the gathering of Israel that I've already mentioned - the 3 days of darkness in Siberia - Sister Nelson mentioning her seeing all 12 tribes represented in Russia, President Nelson suddenly telling to the youth their number one priority if the gathering of Israel - all a coincidence, right? Surely, there can't be a scripture that ties this blood moon to the feast of tabernacles in God fulfilling both his covenant to Israel and to the house of David, right???

WRONG

Amos 9:11 ¶ In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the Lord that doeth this.
13 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.
14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the Lord thy God.


This along with all the other coincidences of 9/23/17 and the blood moons of 2014-15 are not coincidences. These are signs of the gathering of Israel and the restoration of the house of David. Wake up people. Cast aside your disbelief and your pride and start looking so that you may live.

On another note, as I was pondering the Feast of Tabernacles, which admittedly I knew next to nothing about off the top of my head, I had a realization and a spiritual prompting. The realization was that when my beliefs are challenged, I sometimes dig deeper. So, I do have to thank those who dismiss this sign without a second thought. For your sake, I hope you reconsider your strategy of following the Lord's command to look for signs of His coming.

Secondly, the Spirit kept niggling at me about the Earthquake of 1989. I had just told a coworker I was in that Earthquake when I was 12 years old. Why is the Spirit impressing upon me to look at the date? I remember it was the World Series - the Giants playing the A's. Though I was watching the game on the TV when it went to static moments before I felt the Earth quake (TV to static, Dogs Barking, then the rear sliding glass door starts shaking violently) I am not a baseball fan, so I can't even think of when the World Series occurs off the top of my head.

So I look up the date - October 17th, 1989. I cross reference this date to hebcal.com...

This Earthquake occurred in the middle of the Feast of Tabernacles ... the fourth day, which is right in the middle if you consider the eighth day of the festival is the eighth day of assembly. The Feast of Tabernacles which has a temporal and spiritual symbolism of being removed from your home and from your life was certainly a motif of the October 1989 Earthquake where homes were destroyed, bridges collapsed, and lives were lost. This was a pretty big confirmation to me by the Spirit after looking and believing:

“He that believeth shall be blest with signs following, even as it is written. And unto you it shall be given to know the signs of the times, and the signs of the coming of the Son of Man” (Doctrine & Covenants 68:10–11);

“And it shall come to pass that he that feareth me shall be looking forth for the great day of the Lord to come, even for the signs of the coming of the Son of Man. And they shall see signs and wonders, for they shall be shown forth in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath” (Doctrine & Covenants 45:39–40).

Alaris wrote: ↑July 29th, 2018, 2:44 pm

mmm..cheese wrote: ↑July 29th, 2018, 2:00 pm I saw a post about a Jewish holiday falling on a blood moon..

It is important to remember that the Jewish calendar is a lunar calendar. There will be plenty of blood/full/blue moons on Jewish holidays...

It is also important to remember that the same LORD who made the stars and the moon and set their orbits and patterns also made the Jewish Holy Days.

The 4 blood moons in 2014-2015 fall on the same two Jewish holy days. Passover / Feast of Tabernacles. These aren't like Halloween for Jews but the "Holy Days" (that's where the word holiday come from) as designated by the LORD. The Passover holy days were fulfilled in Jesus. The fall festivals are as of yet unfulfilled. Passover / Pentecost / Shavuot links the Spring to the Fall Festivals. There are seven primary holy days and they all take place in fall and spring in short order.

There are 8 tetrads since Christ.

"The last 2 of the 7 tetrads have very strong prophetic significance. Namely, the Tetrad of 1949/50 and the Tetrad of 1967/68." source

These days aligned to Judah returning and to the six day war where they finally controlled all of Jerusalem iirc

So perhaps the LORD who made the moon and stars and the holy days is trying to show us something when they match up like this.

That doesn't change the conclusion I posted. Does not weaken it either.

mmm..cheese wrote: ↑August 2nd, 2018, 8:18 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑July 29th, 2018, 2:44 pm

mmm..cheese wrote: ↑July 29th, 2018, 2:00 pm I saw a post about a Jewish holiday falling on a blood moon..

It is important to remember that the Jewish calendar is a lunar calendar. There will be plenty of blood/full/blue moons on Jewish holidays...

It is also important to remember that the same LORD who made the stars and the moon and set their orbits and patterns also made the Jewish Holy Days.

The 4 blood moons in 2014-2015 fall on the same two Jewish holy days. Passover / Feast of Tabernacles. These aren't like Halloween for Jews but the "Holy Days" (that's where the word holiday come from) as designated by the LORD. The Passover holy days were fulfilled in Jesus. The fall festivals are as of yet unfulfilled. Passover / Pentecost / Shavuot links the Spring to the Fall Festivals. There are seven primary holy days and they all take place in fall and spring in short order.

There are 8 tetrads since Christ.

"The last 2 of the 7 tetrads have very strong prophetic significance. Namely, the Tetrad of 1949/50 and the Tetrad of 1967/68." source

These days aligned to Judah returning and to the six day war where they finally controlled all of Jerusalem iirc

So perhaps the LORD who made the moon and stars and the holy days is trying to show us something when they match up like this.

That doesn't change the conclusion I posted. Does not weaken it either.

The fact that God invented the moon and the Jewish Holidays doesn't weaken what exactly? The God who made the moon, the stars, their orbits and schedule gave us meaningless eclipses? I'm not sure what you were saying though it seems like you were trying to minimize the importance. Disbelief and hardness of heart is the real weakness.

I've been meaning to post on this, but apparently there has been an extended blood moon appearance in many places for days after the event. Let's add this to the list of coincidences for all you folks who enjoy declaring "nothing" at the signs in the heavens.
Coincidentally, this gentlemen hails from the same city as I. Whoops, there's that word again. He believes the dust from the Sahara is affecting us in Gilbert (Gilbert itself is a dust bowl.) Other commentators say iron oxide from Nibiru. I am Nibiru agnostic.

Here's another interesting coincidence days after the blood moon and during the extended blood moon phenomenon I posted about immediately prior to this post.

https://theaviationist.com/2018/08/03/r ... greenland/

A star falls from heaven over Greenland of all places. I believe I mentioned Greenland as one of three places from which the blood moon on July 27th did not hide its light (see map in my post on page 1 of this thread.)

The sun was darkened the week prior over the area in Siberia that did not have even a partial lunar eclipse visible. There's probably a better way of phrasing that. Fast Sunday!

And it was a US Military Base in Greenland where the meteor fell. Interesting indeed!

Edit: I had a moment of weakness just now after posting this thinking unkind thoughts and words towards those who would shame others from following the Lord's command to look for signs of his coming. Unkind thoughts.... That led me to think, "Even if we were to have the best meteor shower in years in the coming days it still wouldn't be good enough for the disbeliever who minimizes the signs of the times rather than look for them."

So out of curiosity I Googled meteor shower:
http://www.kmov.com/story/38813734/the ... gust-11-13

You can't make this stuff up. Literally. God made it up.

Edit edit: here's a better article.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswit ... perseids/

Coincidentally (I need a new word. Are there any synonyms?)...

As fate would have it, my wife and I will be in Sedona that weekend for optimal viewing conditions.

Alaris wrote: ↑August 2nd, 2018, 8:32 pm

mmm..cheese wrote: ↑August 2nd, 2018, 8:18 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑July 29th, 2018, 2:44 pm

mmm..cheese wrote: ↑July 29th, 2018, 2:00 pm I saw a post about a Jewish holiday falling on a blood moon..

It is important to remember that the Jewish calendar is a lunar calendar. There will be plenty of blood/full/blue moons on Jewish holidays...

It is also important to remember that the same LORD who made the stars and the moon and set their orbits and patterns also made the Jewish Holy Days.

The 4 blood moons in 2014-2015 fall on the same two Jewish holy days. Passover / Feast of Tabernacles. These aren't like Halloween for Jews but the "Holy Days" (that's where the word holiday come from) as designated by the LORD. The Passover holy days were fulfilled in Jesus. The fall festivals are as of yet unfulfilled. Passover / Pentecost / Shavuot links the Spring to the Fall Festivals. There are seven primary holy days and they all take place in fall and spring in short order.

There are 8 tetrads since Christ.

"The last 2 of the 7 tetrads have very strong prophetic significance. Namely, the Tetrad of 1949/50 and the Tetrad of 1967/68." source

These days aligned to Judah returning and to the six day war where they finally controlled all of Jerusalem iirc

So perhaps the LORD who made the moon and stars and the holy days is trying to show us something when they match up like this.

That doesn't change the conclusion I posted. Does not weaken it either.

The fact that God invented the moon and the Jewish Holidays doesn't weaken what exactly? The God who made the moon, the stars, their orbits and schedule gave us meaningless eclipses? I'm not sure what you were saying though it seems like you were trying to minimize the importance. Disbelief and hardness of heart is the real weakness.

I've been meaning to post on this, but apparently there has been an extended blood moon appearance in many places for days after the event. Let's add this to the list of coincidences for all you folks who enjoy declaring "nothing" at the signs in the heavens.

Coincidentally, this gentlemen hails from the same city as I. Whoops, there's that word again. He believes the dust from the Sahara is affecting us in Gilbert (Gilbert itself is a dust bowl.) Other commentators say iron oxide from Nibiru. I am Nibiru agnostic.

I have not disbelieved anything. I am saying that the fact that an event falls on a Jewish holiday does not make it an unlikely occurence because it is likely to begin with based on how the holidays and the calendar and their reliance on the moon cycles are related. What you are saying does not even seem to address that. You keep talking about creation and how faith is needed, but ignore that anyone can see (with or without faith) that this is not an unlikely occurence.

mmm..cheese wrote: ↑August 5th, 2018, 8:13 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑August 2nd, 2018, 8:32 pm

mmm..cheese wrote: ↑August 2nd, 2018, 8:18 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑July 29th, 2018, 2:44 pm

It is also important to remember that the same LORD who made the stars and the moon and set their orbits and patterns also made the Jewish Holy Days.

The 4 blood moons in 2014-2015 fall on the same two Jewish holy days. Passover / Feast of Tabernacles. These aren't like Halloween for Jews but the "Holy Days" (that's where the word holiday come from) as designated by the LORD. The Passover holy days were fulfilled in Jesus. The fall festivals are as of yet unfulfilled. Passover / Pentecost / Shavuot links the Spring to the Fall Festivals. There are seven primary holy days and they all take place in fall and spring in short order.

There are 8 tetrads since Christ.

"The last 2 of the 7 tetrads have very strong prophetic significance. Namely, the Tetrad of 1949/50 and the Tetrad of 1967/68." source

These days aligned to Judah returning and to the six day war where they finally controlled all of Jerusalem iirc

So perhaps the LORD who made the moon and stars and the holy days is trying to show us something when they match up like this.

That doesn't change the conclusion I posted. Does not weaken it either.

The fact that God invented the moon and the Jewish Holidays doesn't weaken what exactly? The God who made the moon, the stars, their orbits and schedule gave us meaningless eclipses? I'm not sure what you were saying though it seems like you were trying to minimize the importance. Disbelief and hardness of heart is the real weakness.

I've been meaning to post on this, but apparently there has been an extended blood moon appearance in many places for days after the event. Let's add this to the list of coincidences for all you folks who enjoy declaring "nothing" at the signs in the heavens.

Coincidentally, this gentlemen hails from the same city as I. Whoops, there's that word again. He believes the dust from the Sahara is affecting us in Gilbert (Gilbert itself is a dust bowl.) Other commentators say iron oxide from Nibiru. I am Nibiru agnostic.

I have not disbelieved anything. I am saying that the fact that an event falls on a Jewish holiday does not make it an unlikely occurence because it is likely to begin with based on how the holidays and the calendar and their reliance on the moon cycles are related. What you are saying does not even seem to address that. You keep talking about creation and how faith is needed, but ignore that anyone can see (with or without faith) that this is not an unlikely occurence.

Let's put aside for a moment whether or not it is silly to say the God who made the moon, the Earth, the Sun, and their orbits along with the Holy Days would have an increased likelihood of lunar eclipse coincidence. Maybe lunar eclipses have an increased likelihood of landing on a Jewish holy day - maybe they don't. Regardless as to whether the rarity of heavenly signs add to or take away from their significance, let's talk about our personal accountability in how our words affect others.

Your attitude mmm..cheese is that this is a likely occurrence then and therefore what? Nothing? When you take that attitude like "no big deal" you put forth a spirit of discouraging others of even looking. So, yes that is an attitude of disbelief. Consider for a moment the implications of trying to minimize the importance of heavenly signs:

“He that believeth shall be blest with signs following, even as it is written. And unto you it shall be given to know the signs of the times, and the signs of the coming of the Son of Man” (Doctrine & Covenants 68:10–11); “And it shall come to pass that he that feareth me shall be looking forth for the great day of the Lord to come, even for the signs of the coming of the Son of Man. And they shall see signs and wonders, for they shall be shown forth in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath” (Doctrine & Covenants 45:39–40).

Let's put the above scriptures in the alternative viewpoint - for those who don't beleive.

"He that [does not believe will not] be blest with signs following, even as it is written. And unto you it shall [not] be given to know the signs of the times, and the signs of the coming of the Son of Man." (Doctrine & Covenants 68:10–11 with edits in [])

Dang!


I continue to look and see all sorts of confirmations that I have labeled "coincidences" for to the unbeliever that's all they are. And no number of coincidences will ever convince the unbeliever. These are not coincidences. These are confirmations that our Prophet who is signaling a change in the times and seasons has actual signs from God to signal these changes.

“And it shall come to pass that he that [does not fear] me shall [not] be looking forth for the great day of the Lord to come, even for the signs of the coming of the Son of Man. And they shall [not] see signs and wonders, for they shall [not] be shown forth in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath” (Doctrine & Covenants 45:39–40 with edits in [])


So, while some seem to claim that only these earth-shattering, visible-to-all signs are the only ones that will count, D&C 45:39-40 is clear. Only those who believe will see. And those who don't believe ... wont' see. And who will not see?

Isaiah 28:1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!

2 Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.

3 The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, shall be trodden under feet:

4 And the glorious beauty, which is on the head of the fat valley, shall be a fading flower, and as the hasty fruit before the summer; which when he that looketh upon it seeth, while it is yet in his hand he eateth it up.

5 ¶ In that day shall the Lord of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people,

6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.

7 ¶ But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.

9 ¶ Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

I pasted an incorrect link earlier about the coming meteor shower. I fixed it in the original post, but I'll paste it again here.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswith ... perseids/

Alaris wrote: ↑August 5th, 2018, 8:27 pm

mmm..cheese wrote: ↑August 5th, 2018, 8:13 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑August 2nd, 2018, 8:32 pm

mmm..cheese wrote: ↑August 2nd, 2018, 8:18 pm

That doesn't change the conclusion I posted. Does not weaken it either.

The fact that God invented the moon and the Jewish Holidays doesn't weaken what exactly? The God who made the moon, the stars, their orbits and schedule gave us meaningless eclipses? I'm not sure what you were saying though it seems like you were trying to minimize the importance. Disbelief and hardness of heart is the real weakness.

I've been meaning to post on this, but apparently there has been an extended blood moon appearance in many places for days after the event. Let's add this to the list of coincidences for all you folks who enjoy declaring "nothing" at the signs in the heavens.

Coincidentally, this gentlemen hails from the same city as I. Whoops, there's that word again. He believes the dust from the Sahara is affecting us in Gilbert (Gilbert itself is a dust bowl.) Other commentators say iron oxide from Nibiru. I am Nibiru agnostic.

I have not disbelieved anything. I am saying that the fact that an event falls on a Jewish holiday does not make it an unlikely occurence because it is likely to begin with based on how the holidays and the calendar and their reliance on the moon cycles are related. What you are saying does not even seem to address that. You keep talking about creation and how faith is needed, but ignore that anyone can see (with or without faith) that this is not an unlikely occurence.

Let's put aside for a moment whether or not it is silly to say the God who made the moon, the Earth, the Sun, and their orbits along with the Holy Days would have an increased likelihood of lunar eclipse coincidence. Maybe lunar eclipses have an increased likelihood of landing on a Jewish holy day - maybe they don't. Regardless as to whether the rarity of heavenly signs add to or take away from their significance, let's talk about our personal accountability in how our words affect others.

Your attitude mmm..cheese is that this is a likely occurrence then and therefore what? Nothing? When you take that attitude like "no big deal" you put forth a spirit of discouraging others of even looking. So, yes that is an attitude of disbelief. Consider for a moment the implications of trying to minimize the importance of heavenly signs:

“He that believeth shall be blest with signs following, even as it is written. And unto you it shall be given to know the signs of the times, and the signs of the coming of the Son of Man” (Doctrine & Covenants 68:10–11); “And it shall come to pass that he that feareth me shall be looking forth for the great day of the Lord to come, even for the signs of the coming of the Son of Man. And they shall see signs and wonders, for they shall be shown forth in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath” (Doctrine & Covenants 45:39–40).

Let's put the above scriptures in the alternative viewpoint - for those who don't beleive.

"He that [does not believe will not] be blest with signs following, even as it is written. And unto you it shall [not] be given to know the signs of the times, and the signs of the coming of the Son of Man." (Doctrine & Covenants 68:10–11 with edits in [])

Dang!


I continue to look and see all sorts of confirmations that I have labeled "coincidences" for to the unbeliever that's all they are. And no number of coincidences will ever convince the unbeliever. These are not coincidences. These are confirmations that our Prophet who is signaling a change in the times and seasons has actual signs from God to signal these changes.

“And it shall come to pass that he that [does not fear] me shall [not] be looking forth for the great day of the Lord to come, even for the signs of the coming of the Son of Man. And they shall [not] see signs and wonders, for they shall [not] be shown forth in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath” (Doctrine & Covenants 45:39–40 with edits in [])


So, while some seem to claim that only these earth-shattering, visible-to-all signs are the only ones that will count, D&C 45:39-40 is clear. Only those who believe will see. And those who don't believe ... wont' see. And who will not see?

Isaiah 28:1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!

2 Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.

3 The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, shall be trodden under feet:

4 And the glorious beauty, which is on the head of the fat valley, shall be a fading flower, and as the hasty fruit before the summer; which when he that looketh upon it seeth, while it is yet in his hand he eateth it up.

5 ¶ In that day shall the Lord of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people,

6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.

7 ¶ But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.

9 ¶ Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

If It is a Jewish holiday, it is more likely to be on a full moon. It is not the other way around. That is a mistaken reversal in conditional logic. Jewish holidays are based on a lunar calendar and the months of the year are adjusted and some years (like our leap year) there is the addition of an extra month. The lunar cycle is the cause of what days the holidays are on because the system is based on the moon cycles. The holidays are DEPENDENT on the moon.

My attitude is it is a POSSIBLE occurrence, but it isn't probably. The earth will reel to and fro - what if this causes the moon to ALWAYS be blood red and the sun darker. The position of the Earth determines will often affect how are able to see other planetary bodies and the Scriptures pretty much state that the Earth has been moved in the past to change the appearance of the sun, so it COULD happen in the future. It even suggests it is more likely than simply possible.

I argued about ideas being presented that things were likely to occur, causation, etc. I converted to the Church through strong personal revelation and trust no man. Sorry if I see the unintended logical fallacy in someone's statements and choose not to pretend what they are saying is making sense. Sometimes good intended statements are inconsistent. Go figure.

mmm..cheese wrote: ↑August 26th, 2018, 11:08 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑August 5th, 2018, 8:27 pm

mmm..cheese wrote: ↑August 5th, 2018, 8:13 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑August 2nd, 2018, 8:32 pm

The fact that God invented the moon and the Jewish Holidays doesn't weaken what exactly? The God who made the moon, the stars, their orbits and schedule gave us meaningless eclipses? I'm not sure what you were saying though it seems like you were trying to minimize the importance. Disbelief and hardness of heart is the real weakness.

I've been meaning to post on this, but apparently there has been an extended blood moon appearance in many places for days after the event. Let's add this to the list of coincidences for all you folks who enjoy declaring "nothing" at the signs in the heavens.

Coincidentally, this gentlemen hails from the same city as I. Whoops, there's that word again. He believes the dust from the Sahara is affecting us in Gilbert (Gilbert itself is a dust bowl.) Other commentators say iron oxide from Nibiru. I am Nibiru agnostic.

I have not disbelieved anything. I am saying that the fact that an event falls on a Jewish holiday does not make it an unlikely occurence because it is likely to begin with based on how the holidays and the calendar and their reliance on the moon cycles are related. What you are saying does not even seem to address that. You keep talking about creation and how faith is needed, but ignore that anyone can see (with or without faith) that this is not an unlikely occurence.

Let's put aside for a moment whether or not it is silly to say the God who made the moon, the Earth, the Sun, and their orbits along with the Holy Days would have an increased likelihood of lunar eclipse coincidence. Maybe lunar eclipses have an increased likelihood of landing on a Jewish holy day - maybe they don't. Regardless as to whether the rarity of heavenly signs add to or take away from their significance, let's talk about our personal accountability in how our words affect others.

Your attitude mmm..cheese is that this is a likely occurrence then and therefore what? Nothing? When you take that attitude like "no big deal" you put forth a spirit of discouraging others of even looking. So, yes that is an attitude of disbelief. Consider for a moment the implications of trying to minimize the importance of heavenly signs:

“He that believeth shall be blest with signs following, even as it is written. And unto you it shall be given to know the signs of the times, and the signs of the coming of the Son of Man” (Doctrine & Covenants 68:10–11); “And it shall come to pass that he that feareth me shall be looking forth for the great day of the Lord to come, even for the signs of the coming of the Son of Man. And they shall see signs and wonders, for they shall be shown forth in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath” (Doctrine & Covenants 45:39–40).

Let's put the above scriptures in the alternative viewpoint - for those who don't beleive.

"He that [does not believe will not] be blest with signs following, even as it is written. And unto you it shall [not] be given to know the signs of the times, and the signs of the coming of the Son of Man." (Doctrine & Covenants 68:10–11 with edits in [])

Dang!


I continue to look and see all sorts of confirmations that I have labeled "coincidences" for to the unbeliever that's all they are. And no number of coincidences will ever convince the unbeliever. These are not coincidences. These are confirmations that our Prophet who is signaling a change in the times and seasons has actual signs from God to signal these changes.

“And it shall come to pass that he that [does not fear] me shall [not] be looking forth for the great day of the Lord to come, even for the signs of the coming of the Son of Man. And they shall [not] see signs and wonders, for they shall [not] be shown forth in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath” (Doctrine & Covenants 45:39–40 with edits in [])


So, while some seem to claim that only these earth-shattering, visible-to-all signs are the only ones that will count, D&C 45:39-40 is clear. Only those who believe will see. And those who don't believe ... wont' see. And who will not see?

Isaiah 28:1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!

2 Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.

3 The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, shall be trodden under feet:

4 And the glorious beauty, which is on the head of the fat valley, shall be a fading flower, and as the hasty fruit before the summer; which when he that looketh upon it seeth, while it is yet in his hand he eateth it up.

5 ¶ In that day shall the Lord of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people,

6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.

7 ¶ But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.

9 ¶ Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

If It is a Jewish holiday, it is more likely to be on a full moon. It is not the other way around. That is a mistaken reversal in conditional logic. Jewish holidays are based on a lunar calendar and the months of the year are adjusted and some years (like our leap year) there is the addition of an extra month. The lunar cycle is the cause of what days the holidays are on because the system is based on the moon cycles. The holidays are DEPENDENT on the moon.

My attitude is it is a POSSIBLE occurrence, but it isn't probably. The earth will reel to and fro - what if this causes the moon to ALWAYS be blood red and the sun darker. The position of the Earth determines will often affect how are able to see other planetary bodies and the Scriptures pretty much state that the Earth has been moved in the past to change the appearance of the sun, so it COULD happen in the future. It even suggests it is more likely than simply possible.

I argued about ideas being presented that things were likely to occur, causation, etc. I converted to the Church through strong personal revelation and trust no man. Sorry if I see the unintended logical fallacy in someone's statements and choose not to pretend what they are saying is making sense. Sometimes good intended statements are inconsistent. Go figure.

Still, I'm really not sure what your point is. It still seems like you're trying up minimize the recent blood moon as though it's meaningless. Are you so intimate with God, his peoples holy days (not Jewish holy days... Israel's holy days) that you can say this recent blood moon meant nothing? Or are you saying it probably meant nothing? Is there just one event when the moon turns to blood or many? Does the earth reel to and fro the day of the blood moon? Before? After?

I've seen enough symbolism with this blood moon that I absolutely believe it's significant. I believe it's a sign in a series of signs that are significant that the time of the gathering is approaching along with the restoration of the Davidic throne and kingdom. To say it's insignifant is bold... And beyond a silly contention to make. Why gamble on being wrong... Unless it helps you sleep at night.

You know it would be cool if more people took pictures of these blood moons and posted them. But even then people would still have disbelief.

I think the double solar eclipses in 2017 and 2024 that make an X over Southern Illinois is a greater sign. Southern Illinois is the candidate site for the Nephite gathering against the gadianton robbers according to the Heartland model.

http://en.es-static.us/upl/2016/02/ecli ... 0-2050.gif

Alaris wrote: ↑August 27th, 2018, 12:54 am

mmm..cheese wrote: ↑August 26th, 2018, 11:08 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑August 5th, 2018, 8:27 pm

mmm..cheese wrote: ↑August 5th, 2018, 8:13 pm I have not disbelieved anything. I am saying that the fact that an event falls on a Jewish holiday does not make it an unlikely occurence because it is likely to begin with based on how the holidays and the calendar and their reliance on the moon cycles are related. What you are saying does not even seem to address that. You keep talking about creation and how faith is needed, but ignore that anyone can see (with or without faith) that this is not an unlikely occurence.

Let's put aside for a moment whether or not it is silly to say the God who made the moon, the Earth, the Sun, and their orbits along with the Holy Days would have an increased likelihood of lunar eclipse coincidence. Maybe lunar eclipses have an increased likelihood of landing on a Jewish holy day - maybe they don't. Regardless as to whether the rarity of heavenly signs add to or take away from their significance, let's talk about our personal accountability in how our words affect others.

Your attitude mmm..cheese is that this is a likely occurrence then and therefore what? Nothing? When you take that attitude like "no big deal" you put forth a spirit of discouraging others of even looking. So, yes that is an attitude of disbelief. Consider for a moment the implications of trying to minimize the importance of heavenly signs:

“He that believeth shall be blest with signs following, even as it is written. And unto you it shall be given to know the signs of the times, and the signs of the coming of the Son of Man” (Doctrine & Covenants 68:10–11); “And it shall come to pass that he that feareth me shall be looking forth for the great day of the Lord to come, even for the signs of the coming of the Son of Man. And they shall see signs and wonders, for they shall be shown forth in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath” (Doctrine & Covenants 45:39–40).

Let's put the above scriptures in the alternative viewpoint - for those who don't beleive.

"He that [does not believe will not] be blest with signs following, even as it is written. And unto you it shall [not] be given to know the signs of the times, and the signs of the coming of the Son of Man." (Doctrine & Covenants 68:10–11 with edits in [])

Dang!


I continue to look and see all sorts of confirmations that I have labeled "coincidences" for to the unbeliever that's all they are. And no number of coincidences will ever convince the unbeliever. These are not coincidences. These are confirmations that our Prophet who is signaling a change in the times and seasons has actual signs from God to signal these changes.

“And it shall come to pass that he that [does not fear] me shall [not] be looking forth for the great day of the Lord to come, even for the signs of the coming of the Son of Man. And they shall [not] see signs and wonders, for they shall [not] be shown forth in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath” (Doctrine & Covenants 45:39–40 with edits in [])


So, while some seem to claim that only these earth-shattering, visible-to-all signs are the only ones that will count, D&C 45:39-40 is clear. Only those who believe will see. And those who don't believe ... wont' see. And who will not see?

Isaiah 28:1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!

2 Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.

3 The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, shall be trodden under feet:

4 And the glorious beauty, which is on the head of the fat valley, shall be a fading flower, and as the hasty fruit before the summer; which when he that looketh upon it seeth, while it is yet in his hand he eateth it up.

5 ¶ In that day shall the Lord of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people,

6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.

7 ¶ But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.

9 ¶ Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

If It is a Jewish holiday, it is more likely to be on a full moon. It is not the other way around. That is a mistaken reversal in conditional logic. Jewish holidays are based on a lunar calendar and the months of the year are adjusted and some years (like our leap year) there is the addition of an extra month. The lunar cycle is the cause of what days the holidays are on because the system is based on the moon cycles. The holidays are DEPENDENT on the moon.

My attitude is it is a POSSIBLE occurrence, but it isn't probably. The earth will reel to and fro - what if this causes the moon to ALWAYS be blood red and the sun darker. The position of the Earth determines will often affect how are able to see other planetary bodies and the Scriptures pretty much state that the Earth has been moved in the past to change the appearance of the sun, so it COULD happen in the future. It even suggests it is more likely than simply possible.

I argued about ideas being presented that things were likely to occur, causation, etc. I converted to the Church through strong personal revelation and trust no man. Sorry if I see the unintended logical fallacy in someone's statements and choose not to pretend what they are saying is making sense. Sometimes good intended statements are inconsistent. Go figure.

Still, I'm really not sure what your point is. It still seems like you're trying up minimize the recent blood moon as though it's meaningless. Are you so intimate with God, his peoples holy days (not Jewish holy days... Israel's holy days) that you can say this recent blood moon meant nothing? Or are you saying it probably meant nothing? Is there just one event when the moon turns to blood or many? Does the earth reel to and fro the day of the blood moon? Before? After?

I've seen enough symbolism with this blood moon that I absolutely believe it's significant. I believe it's a sign in a series of signs that are significant that the time of the gathering is approaching along with the restoration of the Davidic throne and kingdom. To say it's insignifant is bold... And beyond a silly contention to make. Why gamble on being wrong... Unless it helps you sleep at night.

It is so weird. What I am saying is actually true whether you believe it or not and you even acknowledge it. Yet, then you follow up what you are saying with basically "So you are doubting it?"
I am saying it is possible, but not probable. I personally have statements from General Conference that suggest the definition of a blood moon could be different than an actual lunar eclipse. The Scripture actually states that the Earth will move as a drunkard, yet you are the arbiter of truth? You are the arbiter of your own ideas and are posting them. Nothing wrong with that and I never said you didn't believe. You, on the otherhand, are making suggestions that I am suspect because I correctly am pointing out that you are making something out to be "likely" that is not "likely."

Nobody would need any level of intimacy to answer the questions you are asking... which is kind of strange that you think it does.

"Are you so intimate with God, his peoples holy days (not Jewish holy days... Israel's holy days) that you can say this recent blood moon meant nothing?" - Possibly it doesn't. I will not base past events off of the likelihood of a future event. It may, or may not. It is not likely. The occurrence has happened many times in the past and past events would still fall in line with end days prophecy. The Civil war fulfilled end days prophecy.

"Or are you saying it probably meant nothing?" - I am saying it didn't probably mean SOMETHING. If I make that statement it does not follow that I must be saying it "probably meant nothing."

"Is there just one event when the moon turns to blood or many?" - Lunar eclipses appear to turn the moon red many times. Those happen often and have happened back-to-back four times in a year. A possible, alternative, fulfillment of that same prophecy is that the earth will be in a different position relative to the moon and will give the moon a much more frequent appearance of being red, all the time. Likewise, the sun can become darker than it has been in the past at the same time. I have read statements by General Authorities that suggested this was their personal view of the prophecy. It does not mean it is definitely the way it will happen, but it is definitely consistent. If it isn't, then explain why the General authorities with this view had an incorrect view.

"Does the earth reel to and fro the day of the blood moon? Before? After?" - If this possibility were correct, then it would be "before."

No revelation, buddy. Just commonsense observations.

When God moved the Earth to make the Sun stand still in the sky - did he move it before or after it appeared to stand still? You tell me.

The stars will also do some amount of moving. Another reason why the Earth moving would be consistent. The stars would have to move unimaginably fast and have to have started a long time ago...

Or we can just say He does it like magic and he just bends space-time. Who knows. I believe He is powerful enough.

When someone disagrees with what you are saying it does not mean they do not believe everything the Church teaches with jealous conviction. It just means they disagree with you. Make sense?

mmm..cheese wrote: ↑August 27th, 2018, 3:25 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑August 27th, 2018, 12:54 am

mmm..cheese wrote: ↑August 26th, 2018, 11:08 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑August 5th, 2018, 8:27 pm

Let's put aside for a moment whether or not it is silly to say the God who made the moon, the Earth, the Sun, and their orbits along with the Holy Days would have an increased likelihood of lunar eclipse coincidence. Maybe lunar eclipses have an increased likelihood of landing on a Jewish holy day - maybe they don't. Regardless as to whether the rarity of heavenly signs add to or take away from their significance, let's talk about our personal accountability in how our words affect others.

Your attitude mmm..cheese is that this is a likely occurrence then and therefore what? Nothing? When you take that attitude like "no big deal" you put forth a spirit of discouraging others of even looking. So, yes that is an attitude of disbelief. Consider for a moment the implications of trying to minimize the importance of heavenly signs:

“He that believeth shall be blest with signs following, even as it is written. And unto you it shall be given to know the signs of the times, and the signs of the coming of the Son of Man” (Doctrine & Covenants 68:10–11); “And it shall come to pass that he that feareth me shall be looking forth for the great day of the Lord to come, even for the signs of the coming of the Son of Man. And they shall see signs and wonders, for they shall be shown forth in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath” (Doctrine & Covenants 45:39–40).

Let's put the above scriptures in the alternative viewpoint - for those who don't beleive.

"He that [does not believe will not] be blest with signs following, even as it is written. And unto you it shall [not] be given to know the signs of the times, and the signs of the coming of the Son of Man." (Doctrine & Covenants 68:10–11 with edits in [])

Dang!


I continue to look and see all sorts of confirmations that I have labeled "coincidences" for to the unbeliever that's all they are. And no number of coincidences will ever convince the unbeliever. These are not coincidences. These are confirmations that our Prophet who is signaling a change in the times and seasons has actual signs from God to signal these changes.

“And it shall come to pass that he that [does not fear] me shall [not] be looking forth for the great day of the Lord to come, even for the signs of the coming of the Son of Man. And they shall [not] see signs and wonders, for they shall [not] be shown forth in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath” (Doctrine & Covenants 45:39–40 with edits in [])


So, while some seem to claim that only these earth-shattering, visible-to-all signs are the only ones that will count, D&C 45:39-40 is clear. Only those who believe will see. And those who don't believe ... wont' see. And who will not see?

Isaiah 28:1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!

2 Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.

3 The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, shall be trodden under feet:

4 And the glorious beauty, which is on the head of the fat valley, shall be a fading flower, and as the hasty fruit before the summer; which when he that looketh upon it seeth, while it is yet in his hand he eateth it up.

5 ¶ In that day shall the Lord of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people,

6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.

7 ¶ But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.

9 ¶ Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

If It is a Jewish holiday, it is more likely to be on a full moon. It is not the other way around. That is a mistaken reversal in conditional logic. Jewish holidays are based on a lunar calendar and the months of the year are adjusted and some years (like our leap year) there is the addition of an extra month. The lunar cycle is the cause of what days the holidays are on because the system is based on the moon cycles. The holidays are DEPENDENT on the moon.

My attitude is it is a POSSIBLE occurrence, but it isn't probably. The earth will reel to and fro - what if this causes the moon to ALWAYS be blood red and the sun darker. The position of the Earth determines will often affect how are able to see other planetary bodies and the Scriptures pretty much state that the Earth has been moved in the past to change the appearance of the sun, so it COULD happen in the future. It even suggests it is more likely than simply possible.

I argued about ideas being presented that things were likely to occur, causation, etc. I converted to the Church through strong personal revelation and trust no man. Sorry if I see the unintended logical fallacy in someone's statements and choose not to pretend what they are saying is making sense. Sometimes good intended statements are inconsistent. Go figure.

Still, I'm really not sure what your point is. It still seems like you're trying up minimize the recent blood moon as though it's meaningless. Are you so intimate with God, his peoples holy days (not Jewish holy days... Israel's holy days) that you can say this recent blood moon meant nothing? Or are you saying it probably meant nothing? Is there just one event when the moon turns to blood or many? Does the earth reel to and fro the day of the blood moon? Before? After?

I've seen enough symbolism with this blood moon that I absolutely believe it's significant. I believe it's a sign in a series of signs that are significant that the time of the gathering is approaching along with the restoration of the Davidic throne and kingdom. To say it's insignifant is bold... And beyond a silly contention to make. Why gamble on being wrong... Unless it helps you sleep at night.

It is so weird. What I am saying is actually true whether you believe it or not and you even acknowledge it. Yet, then you follow up what you are saying with basically "So you are doubting it?"
I am saying it is possible, but not probable. I personally have statements from General Conference that suggest the definition of a blood moon could be different than an actual lunar eclipse. The Scripture actually states that the Earth will move as a drunkard, yet you are the arbiter of truth? You are the arbiter of your own ideas and are posting them. Nothing wrong with that and I never said you didn't believe. You, on the otherhand, are making suggestions that I am suspect because I correctly am pointing out that you are making something out to be "likely" that is not "likely."

Nobody would need any level of intimacy to answer the questions you are asking... which is kind of strange that you think it does.

"Are you so intimate with God, his peoples holy days (not Jewish holy days... Israel's holy days) that you can say this recent blood moon meant nothing?" - Possibly it doesn't. I will not base past events off of the likelihood of a future event. It may, or may not. It is not likely. The occurrence has happened many times in the past and past events would still fall in line with end days prophecy. The Civil war fulfilled end days prophecy.

"Or are you saying it probably meant nothing?" - I am saying it didn't probably mean SOMETHING. If I make that statement it does not follow that I must be saying it "probably meant nothing."

"Is there just one event when the moon turns to blood or many?" - Lunar eclipses appear to turn the moon red many times. Those happen often and have happened back-to-back four times in a year. A possible, alternative, fulfillment of that same prophecy is that the earth will be in a different position relative to the moon and will give the moon a much more frequent appearance of being red, all the time. Likewise, the sun can become darker than it has been in the past at the same time. I have read statements by General Authorities that suggested this was their personal view of the prophecy. It does not mean it is definitely the way it will happen, but it is definitely consistent. If it isn't, then explain why the General authorities with this view had an incorrect view.

"Does the earth reel to and fro the day of the blood moon? Before? After?" - If this possibility were correct, then it would be "before."

No revelation, buddy. Just commonsense observations.

When God moved the Earth to make the Sun stand still in the sky - did he move it before or after it appeared to stand still? You tell me.

The stars will also do some amount of moving. Another reason why the Earth moving would be consistent. The stars would have to move unimaginably fast and have to have started a long time ago...

Or we can just say He does it like magic and he just bends space-time. Who knows. I believe He is powerful enough.

When someone disagrees with what you are saying it does not mean they do not believe everything the Church teaches with jealous conviction. It just means they disagree with you. Make sense?

I don't take personal disagreement personally. However, when folks try to say something isn't a sign, I can't help but point out the extreme presumptuousness that one must take to say something isn't a sign. I realize that's not what you are saying now - thanks for clarity. However, the attitude of dissuading or discouraging people from looking is specifically what I take issue with. The statement that there will be more eclipses on a lunar calendar is such a statement. It minimizes the potential importance here. I can't even verify that the eclipses themselves are more likely to occur - are eclipses themselves on a set calendar? They seem to be far more spontaneous than that. Perhaps you can offer some data here other than the supposed logic that a lunar calendar equates to more eclipses. In my mind, the Lord Himself set up these holy days, so when the moon HE created eclipses on the calendar HE created, I take notice. And I think anyone who tries to discourage / diminish that is dead wrong.

I don't really feel like taking sides in this dispute. But one of the comments I thought I might comment about a certain phrase to help people, but it still doesn't really take sides. Regarding signs of the second coming there are several types. This has to do with reaching more than one type of soul.

There are signs for the righteous and signs for the wicked, signs that repeat, and signs that are one time signs. Generally the signs for the righteous are beautiful and wonderful, and we can appreciate them but usually people outside of the church aren't fully aware of all the good signs. The signs for the wicked are there so the wicked have the chance to repent also.

Both good and bad people can see that these signs are happening. But only one of those groups does something about it.

If you have any other questions feel free to ask your wards Gospel Principles teachers or your missionaries.

gardener4life wrote: ↑August 27th, 2018, 7:30 pm I don't really feel like taking sides in this dispute. But one of the comments I thought I might comment about a certain phrase to help people, but it still doesn't really take sides. Regarding signs of the second coming there are several types. This has to do with reaching more than one type of soul.

There are signs for the righteous and signs for the wicked, signs that repeat, and signs that are one time signs. Generally the signs for the righteous are beautiful and wonderful, and we can appreciate them but usually people outside of the church aren't fully aware of all the good signs. The signs for the wicked are there so the wicked have the chance to repent also.

Both good and bad people can see that these signs are happening. But only one of those groups does something about it.

If you have any other questions feel free to ask your wards Gospel Principles teachers or your missionaries.

I urge you to read the D&C passages I quoted above. Only one group can even see the signs.

The sign of Jonas is quoted in the scriptures as being a sign of the wicked.

But I don't disagree with you on most things. This thread I was only trying to offer a neutral pov to two different sides. The sign of Jonas being a sign for the wicked does show a precedence that some signs are for signalling we need to change.

Thanks for your D&C passages also. I like to look at this stuff and I'm always willing to receive suggestions on valid material.

22 And it came to pass that from this time forth there began to be lyings sent forth among the people, by Satan, to harden their hearts, to the intent that they might not believe in those signs and wonders which they had seen; but notwithstanding these lyings and deceivings the more part of the people did believe, and were converted unto the Lord.

There, in the Book of Mormon, is an example of time where signs were everywhere for people to see and there will still people that did not believe. Trust me, I do a self-examination when I look at a purported sign or miracle and do anything like unto "count it as a thing of nought."

I am not saying that it isn't a sign. I am in favor of treating everyday as if it were the Last days and taking the Book of Mormon seriously... while making no predictions... in almost all circumstances. Very few exceptions can change that reasonable course of action.

mmm..cheese wrote: ↑August 28th, 2018, 10:19 am 22 And it came to pass that from this time forth there began to be lyings sent forth among the people, by Satan, to harden their hearts, to the intent that they might not believe in those signs and wonders which they had seen; but notwithstanding these lyings and deceivings the more part of the people did believe, and were converted unto the Lord.

There, in the Book of Mormon, is an example of time where signs were everywhere for people to see and there will still people that did not believe. Trust me, I do a self-examination when I look at a purported sign or miracle and do anything like unto "count it as a thing of nought."

I am not saying that it isn't a sign. I am in favor of treating everyday as if it were the Last days and taking the Book of Mormon seriously... while making no predictions... in almost all circumstances. Very few exceptions can change that reasonable course of action.

Great scripture and thoughts thank you. Signs are meant to reinforce belief rather than make concrete predictions imho. I believe this sign signals such and such is not necessarily a concrete prediction of when / where. However I certainly am predicting with the gathering of Israel will happen "soon" - & whatever that means on the Lord's timetable is what removes the concrete aspect of such a prediction. (This recent blood moon's gap over North America, Greenland, and the part of Siberia that had 3 hours of inexplicable darkness is sure interesting! I thought I saw Greenland in the news recently - a big Earthquake iirc?)

Believing the recent blood moon is a sign of the approaching gathering of Israel is not a prediction of when that will happen. The Lord's time is not our time just as His thoughts are above our thoughts. The mockers want to straw men anyone who sees and believes a sign by setting up the most preposterous interpretation - in their estimation - and then attribute anyone who believes said sign to the established straw man of absurdity. This of course is just a reflection of the disbelief and unsteadiness of their own souls. Just to be clear, I'm not aligning this to you mmm...cheese - just trying to provide some context as to why I am firm on my defense of what leads to belief versus disbelief. I hope the Spirit of my post reaches you as intended.

gardener4life wrote: ↑August 27th, 2018, 1:09 am You know it would be cool if more people took pictures of these blood moons and posted them. But even then people would still have disbelief.

Tons of pictures have been taken. I have seen several from Washington and Alberta showing the sun darkened and the moon appearing as blood. This is EXACTLY what people I sustain as prophets, seers, and revealators have described: smoke and vapors causing the sun to be darkened and the moon to appear so dark it is reminiscent of blood.

Unfortunately people are so focused on looking beyond the mark that they ignore what sustained and ordained prophets have identified Joel's prophecy as referencing. And they ignore one who explicitly stated the prophecy of Joel has already been fulfilled.

brianj wrote: ↑September 7th, 2018, 8:50 pm

gardener4life wrote: ↑August 27th, 2018, 1:09 am You know it would be cool if more people took pictures of these blood moons and posted them. But even then people would still have disbelief.

Tons of pictures have been taken. I have seen several from Washington and Alberta showing the sun darkened and the moon appearing as blood. This is EXACTLY what people I sustain as prophets, seers, and revealators have described: smoke and vapors causing the sun to be darkened and the moon to appear so dark it is reminiscent of blood.

Unfortunately people are so focused on looking beyond the mark that they ignore what sustained and ordained prophets have identified Joel's prophecy as referencing. And they ignore one who explicitly stated the prophecy of Joel has already been fulfilled.

So then there are no more signs to be found in the moon. Whew.