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If you were a terrorist...
Posted: November 20th, 2008, 3:21 pm
by Col. Flagg
how would you attempt to 'bring America to her knees'? We know 9/11 was much more than 19 terrorists, but to believe the official story, you have to wonder how and why, if terrorists are hell-bent on destroying the U.S. financially and economically, they'd fly airplanes into buildings? I can think of dozens of other, more effective ways of bringing this country down than flying passenger airliners into the WTC's and Pentagon, which should make anyone who is a believer of the official story ask why they would attempt to destroy America by slamming planes into structures? I know some will say it was an attack on our financial and military symbols, which is true, but how is this going to cripple us? If that is all they can do with years of planning and preparation, they might as well forget trying to bring the U.S. down.
So I'm curious... if you were the leader of a big terrorist organization and financing was no problem, how would you attempt to bring the U.S. down? Personally... I'd go after the power grid. Without electricity, everything stops and we go back 256 years!
Sorry for the nature of the post... I'm just curious.
Re: If you were a terrorist...
Posted: November 20th, 2008, 3:53 pm
by ldsff
So I'm curious...are you brainstorming for some future plans?
Re: If you were a terrorist...
Posted: November 20th, 2008, 3:58 pm
by Col. Flagg
ldsff wrote:So I'm curious...are you brainstorming for some future plans?
I'll send you a PM... I'm recruiting.
Re: If you were a terrorist...
Posted: November 20th, 2008, 4:08 pm
by ldsff
I am just messing with ya!
Re: If you were a terrorist...
Posted: November 20th, 2008, 4:22 pm
by Col. Flagg
ldsff wrote:I am just messing with ya!
Not me... I'm serious... I'm recruiting.
Re: If you were a terrorist...
Posted: November 20th, 2008, 4:27 pm
by ldsff
Got an application and will you be needing references? By the way I bet you can find some recruits
here .
This guy maybe able to help you plan.
Re: If you were a terrorist...
Posted: November 20th, 2008, 4:38 pm
by Col. Flagg
ldsff wrote:Got an application and will you be needing references? By the way I bet you can find some recruits
here .
This guy maybe able to help you plan.
Re: If you were a terrorist...
Posted: December 10th, 2008, 1:24 pm
by Oldemandalton
How about this Col. Flagg? This is from "The Gathering Storm" web site.
Thursday, September 13, 2007
Winds of War: The Perfect Day Scenario
You would think that the tactics of the militant jihadists and those of political Islam would be at odds with other and work at cross purposes. Both seek to re-establish the Caliphate and impose Islam upon the world. Both believe in the same ideology of Islamism.
The militant jihadists use terrorism to reach their goal while the fundamentalist Muslims use political Islam. The tactics of political Islam is a slow patient process where they work to slowly Islamatize both Muslim and non-Muslim societies while militant jihad seeks to overthrow those societies through terrorism and impose Islam directly.
You would think that the violent tactics of the jihadists would undercut the process of political Islam making targeted societies more defensive and less likely to submit to Islamism. But that may not be entirely true.
This about this. The Jihadists, like al-Qaeda, are trying to start a holy war between Islam and the West. They preach that the free democracies are at war with Islam itself and seek to destroy it. But to create that dream of a global holy war, the Jihadists need the active support of the 1.2 billion Muslims through the world. But it will take more than the war in Iraq and in Afghanistan, more than successful terrorist attacks, more than fringe hate elements on the right to awaken the ummah to the manufactured threat of a holy war by the Jihadists.
The 1.2 billion worldwide Muslims need to see their religion, in no uncertain terms, under attack by the free democracies. For that, the Jihadists need to create events so monstrous that the population of a non-Muslim country (read the USA) will respond by attacking and/or persecuting any and all Muslims and their organizations and mosques in their midst or, if through a massive WMD attack, respond with a nuclear attack on a Muslim country.
This type of uncontrollable anger from non-Muslims is what the militant Jihadists are striving for - especially in the USA. They know we can not be defeated militarily unless the entire Muslim world will unite as one force using modern day weapons to die for the glory of Allah.
It’s a sick dream but one that the Jihadists have confirmed time and time again.
So what kind of monstrous attack would kindle un-bridled anger against Muslims in the USA? Sure, a WMD attack killing tens of thousands of Americans. But though they are human beings, they are still numbers dying from one enormous cause like 9/11. So what kind of hideous attack or multiple attacks would create a primeval rage in America – one that would push Americans not just over the edge – but beyond into an abysses of uncontrollable revenge?
One word. Beslin. From the Mirror.
The full horror of the Russian school atrocity began to emerge yesterday as traumatised children told horrific tales of stabbed babies and brutal rapes.
It has also emerged that scores of the 323 who died - including many children - had been shot in the back. While despairing soldiers and rescue workers moved among the growing pile of body bags, it was revealed that an 18-month-old baby had been repeatedly stabbed by a black-clad terrorist who had run out of ammunition.
Other survivors told how screaming teenage girls were dragged into rooms adjoining the gymnasium where they were being held and raped by their Chechen captors who chillingly made a video film of their appalling exploits. They said children were forced to drink their own urine and eat the petals off the flowers they had brought their teachers after nearly three days without food or water in the stifling hot gym.
A Russian official said six seriously injured children had been taken to Moscow for treatment.
"One of them is a child, just 18 months old, with many knife wounds," he said.
Why schools? Two reasons:
1. Our values. "The most sacred thing to us is our children, our babies," Rassa said. Killing hundreds of them at a time would significantly "boost Islamic morale and lower that of the enemy" (us). In Grossman's words, terrorists see this effort as "an attempt to defile our nation" by leaving it "stunned to its soul."
2. Our lack of preparation. Police agencies "aren't used to this," Rassa said. "We deal with acts of a criminal nature. This is an act of war," but because of our laws "we can't depend on the military to help us," at least at the outset.
Indeed, Grossman claimed, "the U.S. in the one nation in the world where the military is not the first line of defense against domestic terrorist attacks. By law, you the police officer are our Delta Force. It is your job to go in, while in most other nations cops will wait for the military to come save their kids."
School personnel, Rassa said, "are not even close" to being either mentally or physically prepared. "Most don't even have response plans for handling a single active shooter. Their world is taught to nurture and care for people. They don't want to deal with this."
The American public, "sticking their heads in the sand, can't be mentally prepared," he said. "They're going to freak when it happens," their stubborn denial making the crisis "all the more shocking."
Noting that "sheep have two speeds: 'graze' and 'stampede,'" Grossman predicted that "not a parent in the nation will send their kids to school the next day"-perhaps for many days-after a large-scale terrorist massacre. If day-care centers-"also on the terrorists' list"-are hit as well, "parents will drop out of the work force" en masse to protect their children and "our economy will be devastated."
Rassa played vivid videotapes confiscated in Afghanistan, showing al-Qaeda terrorists practicing the takeover of a school. The trainees issue commands in English, rehearse separating youngsters into manageable groups and meeting any resistance with violence. Some "hostages" are taken to the rooftop, dangled over the edge, then "shot."
"Any place that has given [Islamic terrorists] trouble, they've come after the kids," Grossman said …..He cited instances in Indonesia where girls on their way to school have been beheaded and in other countries where children have been shot, mutilated, raped or burned alive.
What would be the likely attack?
Terrorist cells of four operatives each might strike simultaneously at four different schools. They may pick elementary schools, or middle schools with no police officers on site, where the girls are "old enough to rape" but students are not big enough to fight back effectively.
The targets may be in states "with no concealed-carry laws and no hunting culture" and in communities where "police do not have rifles." Rural areas could be favored, where 30 minutes or more might be required for responders to arrive in force.
The attackers will probably "mow down every kid and teacher they see" as they move in to seize the school. They may plant bombs throughout the buildings, and "rape, murder and throw out bodies like they did in Russia." Emergency vehicles responding and children fleeing will be blown up by car bombs in the parking lot.
In all, 100 to 300 children could be slaughtered in a first strike.
But there are even worse scenarios. One worst of all, one that will strike terror into America more than any WMD is the Perfect Day Scenario.
An al-Qaida training videotape, captured in Afghanistan, shows Osama bin Laden's terrorists are not only planning attacks with weapons of mass destruction but are preparing to kill Americans with drive-by shootings and home break-ins, through ambushes of law-enforcement officers and targeted assassinations on golf courses, WorldNetDaily has learned.
The videotape was produced, U.S. analysts believe, for al-Qaida's internal use and did not appear to be an external propaganda device.
"None of these training scenarios depicts the type of fighting that al-Qaida engages in within Afghanistan," noted John Holschen of Insights Training Center, who produced a report on the tape for military and law enforcement officials.
The training video shows al-Qaida operatives practicing the following kinds of assaults:
* using pickup trucks with shooters concealed in the bed of the trucks;
* using motorcycles as a shooting platform for drive-bys and assassinations;
* execution of prisoners;
* ambushes of law-enforcement officers;
* residential assassinations;
* assassination on a golf course using a rocket-propelled grenade and rifle fire;
* drive-up kidnapping of target walking on a street;
* use of tunnels, storm drains and sewers for infiltration during urban raids;
* rappelling from rooftops of buildings to make entry on upper floors;
* use of motorcycles for grenade attacks; and
* raids on buildings with large numbers of occupants – perhaps schools or office buildings.
Analysts point out that all scenarios involving prisoners and hostages ended in execution. None included plans for negotiated settlements for escape by terrorists.
"They plan to kill the prisoners and die in place," wrote Holschen.
How would our leadership respond to such butchery? More important, how would the average American respond to the violation of our most precious resource – our children. Our leadership will of course call for restraint. But this time around, it won’t wash. Demands will be made and if the leadership will not respond – they will be replaced with those that will take action.
The action that the Jihadists will gleefully welcome.
So what do we do? When the next big attack comes and it takes the form of The Perfect Day, it will be too late. If our response is uncontrolled and indiscriminate revenge, we would have given the Jihadists the weapon they need to recruit the ummah to holy war. By that time we will have a global wide conflagration that will make World War II look like a garden party.
The time is now to educate the free world about the enemy we face. And time is running short. If our leadership would face up the threat and name it for what it is and take proper action now, we may be able to prevent The Perfect Day or at least mediate some of its more brutal responses. To do that the enemy ideology must be named and HOW it is being spread politically in the non-Muslim and Muslim world.
How?
With a speech that includes this from our political leadership.
My Fellow Americans:
Our war against the ideology of Islamism begins with al Qaeda, but it does not end there. It will not end until every Islamist group of global reach has been found, stopped and defeated. Both overseas and this country as well.
As before 1941, we have underestimated the power of a fascist ideology. Though many commentators have written about the history of Islamism – and it does have a history – we have ignored the warning signs at our peril. The ideology of Islamism stems from a resurgence of a radical interpretation of Islam advanced by an organization called the Muslim Brotherhood in the early 1900s. Its motto is telling: "Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. The Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope." In an interview to the London based Asharq Al-Awsat, an international Arab newspaper on December 11, 2005, the current leader of the international Muslim Brotherhood, Mohammad Mahdi Akef stated that “the Muslim Brotherhood is a global movement whose members cooperate with each other throughout the world, based on the same religious worldview - the spread of Islam, until it rules the world.”
The Muslim Brotherhood’s political agenda to impose a radical form of Islam – Islamism - on the world have influenced the terrorist leaders we see today. Examples are Osama bin Laden and his second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri.
Islamists want to overthrow existing governments in many Muslim countries, such as Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan. They want to drive Israel out of the Middle East. They want to drive Christians and Jews out of vast regions of Asia and Africa. The violent adherents of Islamism kill not merely to end lives, but to disrupt and end a way of life. With every atrocity, they hope that America grows fearful, retreating from the world and forsaking our friends. They stand against us, because we stand in their way.
But Islamism has its non-violent side, too. They are waging a form of jihad on the free world that is more insidious than the out fright tactics of their terrorists. The non-violent jihads seek to intimidate, infiltrate and misinform us in an attempt to soften us up, so to speak, by confusing our response to their overall aggressive agenda of domination by their Islamist ideology. These jihads must be identified and countered in our freedom loving and pluralistic society for they, though not I themselves violent, have the same objective as the overall Islamist ideology –the imposition of Shariah law upon non-Muslim and moderate Muslim nations.
Americans are asking: How will we fight and win this war? We will direct every resource at our command -- every means of diplomacy, every tool of intelligence, every instrument of law enforcement, every financial influence, and every necessary weapon of war -- to the disruption and to the defeat of this ideology. That includes the defense of our American culture against the attempts at imposing Shariah law in this country.
We are a country of laws. Laws founded on Judeo-Christian principle, delineated and refined in the name of freedom over two thousand years. No one person, no one organization, or no one religion is above these laws and they will be defended aggressively if violently attacked like on 9-11 or through the intimidation or infiltration of an ideology that seeks to remove our hard won personal freedoms.
Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Every person, organization and institution has a decision to make.
Either you are with us, or you are with the Islamists. From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support Islamism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile and threat to America’s security.
Thank you.
If we don’t hear something like this soon, we will hand the Jihadists The Perfect Day they seek to turn their monstrous and barbaric ideology into a holy war that will kill hundreds of millions of Muslims and non-Muslims alike.
The clock is ticking.
Re: If you were a terrorist...
Posted: December 10th, 2008, 5:17 pm
by Col. Flagg
That would certainly enrage me, but I don't think true terrorists would resort to tactics like that. Real terrorist organizations want recognition and respect on a global level and to carry out 'spectacular' attacks with WMD's that kill a lot of people because this helps with their 'recruiting'. I'm not discounting the possibility of schools being targeted because anything is possible, but real terrorists would love to kill and destroy our lives, economy and way of life and a spectacular attack (biological, chemical, dirty bomb or nuke) would be a huge success for them, especially because of the panic and chaos that would ensue. Imagine what would happen if real terrorists used a WMD in NY or Washington, DC... all hell would break loose.
Re: If you were a terrorist...
Posted: December 11th, 2008, 12:51 pm
by Oldemandalton
[I don't think true terrorists would resort to tactics like that]
The animals that conducted the Beslin atrocity were true terrorist.
[Imagine what would happen if real terrorists used a WMD in NY or Washington, DC... all hell would break loose.]
I agree with you here Col. Flagg. I am sure the terrorist organizations are planning such attacks and would relish the opportunity to take down our economy even further. The fact that the 9/11 attack on the twin towers was not their first attempt shows how badly they want to hurt this country. With our open society and open borders the question is not if but when.
A Beslin attack would do 3 things;
1. Weaken our economy. Who would want to go shopping or continue with normal commerce after such an event?
2. Effect the moral of the country. It would either cause a demoralization of the country or cause the Nation to come together finally to wipe out the Islamic Terrorist around the world.
I am not sure how the “Latter Day Gadiantons” will use this event. IMO I believe the LDGs have been supplying, helping, and then using the terrorist as a tool to weaken the democracies around the world. I am sure they will exploit the next 9/11, but how? Will they help stir up the anger against the terrorist which would eliminate them as a tool because the US military and its allies would destroy every base in the world and wipe out all of the “peaceful charity” groups within their own boarders? Or will they encourage the people to give in to the terrorist’s demands. “They must have great reason to hate use to do such an evil deed so we need to be more accommodating with them.”
3. Bring us closer to the day of martial law.
Let’s suppose a Beslin like attack does takes place. Even if the propaganda wing of the LDG’s, main stream news media, ACLU, do oppose a complete destruction of the Islamic Terrorists there will be a small vocal minority who will put pressure on the government to act aggressively. When they see the US government fail to act decisively then you will see an even smaller minority of individuals and small groups take matters into there own hands. First we’ll see beatings of “Islamic” looking men and maybe even women. The public will be outraged after a US Beslin. Then you will see gangs, white supremacists, and militia splinter groups bombing and attacking mosques and Islamic organizations. Of course “hate radio” and “hate web sites” will have instigated this violence and the “fairness doctrine” or a form of it will be passed to shut down opposition to the government’s handling of the crises. This will set the stage for a Fascist form of government to take over. They will have the Presidency, both Houses of Congress, Supreme Court (if not then, soon), and the news media on their side and no one to oppose them. Nothing would be able to stop them if they are given the time and right disasters to cause fear in the people.
Actually the only power besides God’s that will oppose the fascist take over will be strong and independent minded governors. They will be the only ones to stop the take over or at least keep them out of their state.
Re: If you were a terrorist...
Posted: December 11th, 2008, 1:10 pm
by Col. Flagg
Oldemandalton wrote:[I don't think true terrorists would resort to tactics like that]
The animals that conducted the Beslin atrocity were true terrorist.
[Imagine what would happen if real terrorists used a WMD in NY or Washington, DC... all hell would break loose.]
I agree with you here Col. Flagg. I am sure the terrorist organizations are planning such attacks and would relish the opportunity to take down our economy even further. The fact that the 9/11 attack on the twin towers was not their first attempt shows how badly they want to hurt this country.
9/11 was much more than 19 Arabs and bin Laden... they were the patsies... the real perpetrators were/are either the U.S. military-industrial complex, CIA or Mossad (or a combination of all 3). It was a classic false flag event or 'inside job', if you will.
Re: If you were a terrorist...
Posted: December 11th, 2008, 1:37 pm
by truthseeds
Col. Flagg wrote:9/11 was much more than 19 Arabs and bin Laden... they were the patsies... the real perpetrators were/are either the U.S. military-industrial complex, CIA or Mossad (or a combination of all 3). It was a classic false flag event or 'inside job', if you will.
Quite right Col. Flagg. Although Oldemandalton's words could be used both ways. They (rogue elements within government (FBI)) did attempt the first attack on the WTC and they (again, rogue elements/CIA/Mossad) again attacked the WTC and succeeded and shows how badly they want to hurt this country.
The Beslin attack is sickening though. Makes me ill. I had to stop...couldn't rehash it.
The
real terrorists use slow-kill weapons too. They poison the food and water supply, they poison us from the sky, they poison the minds of our children from the schools and propaganda and 'entertainment' / TV. They poison us with vaccines, pharmaceutical drugs, and illicit drugs. They poison us with the cancer viruses, the GMO's, the toxins and lead in toys and candy. They poison our history, our religions, our peacetime, our science. They poison the earth, the third-world countries, the innocence and the technology. They poison our monetary system, our defense systems, our military, our teachers, our will.
Then they attack us outright, blame it on others and act as our saviors and then go kill the others. Plundering the third-world nations and poisoning the first. They make us believe we are free. The real terrorists are in control, I believe.
Re: If you were a terrorist...
Posted: December 11th, 2008, 2:03 pm
by Col. Flagg
truthseeds wrote:Col. Flagg wrote:9/11 was much more than 19 Arabs and bin Laden... they were the patsies... the real perpetrators were/are either the U.S. military-industrial complex, CIA or Mossad (or a combination of all 3). It was a classic false flag event or 'inside job', if you will.
Quite right Col. Flagg. Although Oldemandalton's words could be used both ways. They (rogue elements within government (FBI)) did attempt the first attack on the WTC and they (again, rogue elements/CIA/Mossad) again attacked the WTC and succeeded and shows how badly they want to hurt this country.
The Beslin attack is sickening though. Makes me ill. I had to stop...couldn't rehash it.
The
real terrorists use slow-kill weapons too. They poison the food and water supply, they poison us from the sky, they poison the minds of our children from the schools and propaganda and 'entertainment' / TV. They poison us with vaccines, pharmaceutical drugs, and illicit drugs. They poison us with the cancer viruses, the GMO's, the toxins and lead in toys and candy. They poison our history, our religions, our peacetime, our science. They poison the earth, the third-world countries, the innocence and the technology. They poison our monetary system, our defense systems, our military, our teachers, our will.
Then they attack us outright, blame it on others and act as our saviors and then go kill the others. Plundering the third-world nations and poisoning the first. They make us believe we are free. The real terrorists are in control, I believe.
Right you are my friend and most of them reside in our nation's capital. I've been getting some positive comments lately from co-workers about my desktop wallpaper... it's the photo of Ron Paul in his office with his 'don't steal... the government hates competition' sign in the foreground!
Re: If you were a terrorist...
Posted: December 11th, 2008, 4:34 pm
by Oldemandalton
[9/11 was much more than 19 Arabs and bin Laden... they were the patsies... the real perpetrators were/are either the U.S. military-industrial complex, CIA or Mossad (or a combination of all 3). It was a classic false flag event or 'inside job', if you will.]
I have a differing opinion on 9/11. It was, planed, funded and carried out by Al Queda, Bin Laden et al. I don’t think the US military, CIA, or Mossad were involved. I do believe that the “Latter Day Gadiantons” had a hand in it though. I am sure they knew something was going to happen, helped to fund it and helped the “patsies” to be successful in their endeavor. The LDGs are few and working way behind the scenes (deeper than even the CIA, Mossad, and US military) in order to keep their “secret combinations” secret. They use people, organizations and governments as unknowing dupes. The Gadiantons have unlimited money and power and use these as tools to reach their goals. Time is also a tool. They have been working for generations. Satan has been doing this for 6,000 years so he is very good at organizing and running secret combinations.
I know that some may disagree with me but I think that their (LDGs) hands on the tiller is very soft at the moment. Once they're in power though they will have a firm gripp and won't let go. Again, the LDGs are far removed from the action. Remember you want to move the cattle, not spook them. Otherwise you'll cause a stampede.
Re: If you were a terrorist...
Posted: December 11th, 2008, 5:05 pm
by Stephen
I would say by definition...a terrorist...strikes terror. Debilitating terror.
More than likely more imagined than real.
The power grid going down would unravel the US real quick. Heck....back in 2003 there was that big blackout in the detroit area...perhaps the largest in history...where after 24 hours the stores shelves were being cleaned off...people were having fist fights for gas...there was gridlock....etc..etc... That was just 24 hours!!!!! Imagine if that went on several days!
I would suspect a two fold event. Perhaps a weaponized pestilence...with just enough time to get the word out that it exists...then...lights out. Now THAT would cause terror...to have an "unseen" danger in the way of a pestilence...and then slap the media teet from the mouth of America...leaving them in the dark as to where the danger is.
Some would say that to think of such things and to post them just gives the enemies ideas. I would venture to say that most scenarios they have already thought of! Give them (whomever them are) some evil credit!
Re: If you were a terrorist...
Posted: December 11th, 2008, 5:14 pm
by Oldemandalton
How about several nuclear tipped scud missiles launched from freighters in the Pacific and Atlantic and exploded over the continental US to produce massive EMP?
Re: If you were a terrorist...
Posted: December 11th, 2008, 5:35 pm
by Col. Flagg
Oldemandalton wrote:[9/11 was much more than 19 Arabs and bin Laden... they were the patsies... the real perpetrators were/are either the U.S. military-industrial complex, CIA or Mossad (or a combination of all 3). It was a classic false flag event or 'inside job', if you will.]
I have a differing opinion on 9/11. It was, planed, funded and carried out by Al Queda, Bin Laden et al.
How did bin Laden's terrorists manage to lace the twin towers with thermite without being detected and how did they manage to get Dick Cheney to issue a stand down order for aircraft intercept? Not only that, how is striking two buildings with planes going to bring the U.S. to its knees? If that is the best they can do with years of planning, they might as well give up trying. The towers were professionally turned to dust in 10-12 seconds and brought down into their own footprints with such power and sophistication that their demise baffles even the most expert of demolitionists. Do you think a natural building collapse is going to make lower Manhattan look like a volcano had just gone off?
I don’t think the US military, CIA, or Mossad were involved.
Surely, you've got to be kidding? Have you done any research into 9/11?
Re: If you were a terrorist...
Posted: December 12th, 2008, 11:43 am
by Oldemandalton
[how is striking two buildings with planes going to bring the U.S. to its knees?]
9/11 was the most successful attack on the continental US in generations. Their plan was to fly planes into the four most important builds they could determine. The Twin Towers being economic targets, the Pentagon a military target and the 4th being the Capital Building. Can you imagine how devastating to our country the last plane would have caused if it would have killed a majority of our representatives. (I believe that God had a hand in that plane not reaching its target.) (I also realize how some would have relished the chaos that would have ensued. I am sure that is what the Latter Day Gadiantons were looking for.) 9/11 almost destroyed the airline industry and sent the US into a recession. It did cause the country to come together, if for only a short time, but it also caused the desired effect, fear. How many of us got on planes or waited with anxiety for loved ones to arrive safely after knowing how easy it was to take over a plane? After 9/11 the Nation woke up to the foreign idea that our country was so vulnerable. So, in answer to your question, if all of the planes had hit their targets with maximum effect, yes I believe it would have “brought us to our knees” but not out.
[ The towers were professionally turned to dust in 10-12 seconds and brought down into their own footprints with such power and sophistication that their demise baffles even the most expert of demolitionists. Do you think a natural building collapse is going to make lower Manhattan look like a volcano had just gone off?]
Col Flagg, I know that you and many on this board share your opinion, that it was not the planes that took down the 3 towers but a secrete entity (CIA, Mossad, US Military, whoever) but I respectfully disagree with it. I am not an engineer or a demolition expert but I am a thinker. I am also a retired construction worker of 20 years and have worked on high rises. So I know what it would take to expose and then restore each of the columns that held up the Twin Towers. I also try and use logic on a problem. If the facts don’t add up something is wrong. Either the conclusion is wrong or the facts are. So here are the facts as I, a thinker/construction worker, sees them. Again I am trying to be respectful here. I don’t believe anyone is an “idiot”, “conspiracy theorist”, or “right wing nut job” (I have been called all of these) who believe otherwise. To each his own. So;
Lets look at it as a contractor would.
1. You need to plan how to get to and restore each column in the building. Most columns are obvious and easily assessable, out in the open but still behind drywall and sprayed on fire proof insulation. Other columns will be harder to get to with plumbing and electrical conduit in the way. That all needs to be either removed or moved out of the way.
2. Next you need to schedule the setting of explosives on each column in a way that you are not discovered. There will be in the building maintenance workers, janitors, and late working staff in the buildings at all hours of the day and night.
3. How will be explosives be set off, hard wired or using remote detonation? If they are hard wired you’ll have to expose all of the columns together. If you go with remote detonation there is always a miniscule chance of accidental explosion.
4. Now you have to hire men with both construction and demolition expertise to do the work. How do you do this and keep the operation secrete? I am sure there wouldn’t be any job interviews done. These guys will have to be sociopaths to knowingly set explosives in a building where thousands of men and women work each day and have the needed skills to do the job. How would you go about recruiting these guys in secrecy?
So now you have a plan, explosives and mode of detonation, and your tradesmen/demolition experts/sociopaths and you’re ready to go to work. Let’s see how long it will take. We’ll look at one of the Towers. There were at least 40 columns per floor. At 110 floors that is 4,400 columns per building. Next, how many men will you need and how long will it take to do each column? If I were in charge of the construction crew I would have at least 3 men to uncover and restore the column and it would take about 3-4 hours minimum. This would not be in a haphazard manner. Remember you can’t leave a trace. So 1 team of 3 men can do 2 columns a shift, at night I would presume. How many teams per building would you be able to have working to not raise suspicion, 2, 4? Let’s go with 4 teams doing 8 columns per day. That would take 550 days to do each building in secrete without being discovered!
My next question is why bother with the demo in the first place. The terrorist already have a plane fully loaded with jet fuel going into 4 of the most important buildings we have. Won’t that be enough damage? I look at it this way. I am the Mr. Gadianton and a minion comes to me with this proposal; we’ll have our terrorist lackeys fly 4 plans loaded with passengers and fuel into the Pentagon, Capital Building, and the Twin Towers. To top it off we’ll hire a bunch of tradesmen/explosive experts/sociopaths to demo the Twin Towers hours after being hit by the planes and bring the buildings down. I would look down on my minion and tell him that the risk wouldn’t be worth it. A project of this size, all the planning and logistics and too many people knowing about it would be too much of a risk of discovery. Just let the planes fly in, burn down the buildings with the people in side. That will be good enough and no one will know we were behind it.
I have seen the effects of fire on wood and steel beams. There was this charred wood beam holding up a steel beam that looked like a wet noodle. The fire wasn’t hot enough to burn through the wood beam or melt the steel beam. It was hot enough to weaken the steel beam though. Steel in a fire will lose its strength long before melting. This is what happened in the Twin towers. The planes flying in were shredded by the columns and walls of each floor they hit. The column thus exposed were weakened by the fuel fire and lost their strength. The weight of the floors above came down which caused the steel beams underneath to collapse. This chain reaction carried through all the way to the ground. The explosive dust and debris seen in video is the force of the pancaking effect. Each floor falling on the next pushed the air/ debris/dust out in an explosive effect. Like clapping your hands together but the size of a building!
Col. Flagg, again, I respect yours and any other person’s point of view. I have been called a kook before and will not do that on this subject or any other. I can see your point of view. I just disagree. There are many other theories of government deception which we may never know the truth until the Millinium:
1. The JFK assassination.
2. The Moon Landing
3. UFOs and Area 51.
Just to name a few. BTW here’s may theories;
1. Oswald didn’t work alone. Now here’s my crazy theory. The Gadiantons had JFK assassinated because he wouldn’t go along with their plan. Also to prove to the following presidents what they were capable of as a warning. Reagan ignored them, helped bring down the Soviet Union, and was shot for his bucking the LDGs. He set their Program back a few years but as you can see Russia is back.
2. The Moon Landing did take place.
3. I can tell you for a fact that there are no UFOs at Area 51. Everything flying around there uses jet fuel. I do have some “different” theories on UFOs but you would have to believe that the City of Enoch and the Ten Tribes are on another sphere.
So as you can see, Col. Flagg, we all have our pet theories and they are as varied as there are thinkers. We have common ground. Evil men brought down the Towers. They were helped by the LDGs. They are the true enemies but we can’t get to them so we fight their tools, the terrorists. Let’s agree to disagree.
Re: If you were a terrorist...
Posted: December 12th, 2008, 12:12 pm
by Stephen
Really just and EMP would be enough I think....even without the pestilence.
Re: If you were a terrorist...
Posted: December 12th, 2008, 2:59 pm
by Spence
I've been mostly quiet on this. But I would advise against anyone making statements suggesting violence in an open public forum. Not a smart idea. They're watching, always watching. For that matter, I wouldn't utter it in the safety of my own house and certainly not on a phone.
Re: If you were a terrorist...
Posted: December 12th, 2008, 4:31 pm
by Col. Flagg
Oldemandalton wrote:[how is striking two buildings with planes going to bring the U.S. to its knees?]
9/11 was the most successful attack on the continental US in generations. Their plan was to fly planes into the four most important builds they could determine.
But how would this bring America to her knees?
The Twin Towers being economic targets, the Pentagon a military target and the 4th being the Capital Building. Can you imagine how devastating to our country the last plane would have caused if it would have killed a majority of our representatives.
Are you kidding? They would have done us all a big favor! Washington is a cess pool of corruption and our 'representatives' only represent themselves, their own bank accounts, overseas bank accounts and big money interests and the illegal, immoral and unconstitutional 'Fed' controls Washington!
(I believe that God had a hand in that plane not reaching its target.) (I also realize how some would have relished the chaos that would have ensued. I am sure that is what the Latter Day Gadiantons were looking for.) 9/11 almost destroyed the airline industry and sent the US into a recession.
Simple cause and effect, given what happened.
It did cause the country to come together, if for only a short time, but it also caused the desired effect, fear. How many of us got on planes or waited with anxiety for loved ones to arrive safely after knowing how easy it was to take over a plane? After 9/11 the Nation woke up to the foreign idea that our country was so vulnerable. So, in answer to your question, if all of the planes had hit their targets with maximum effect, yes I believe it would have “brought us to our knees” but not out.
How? Three of the four planes hit their intended target and the U.S. didn't come close to being brought to its knees. Even if the 4th plane had managed to strike the Capitol, this nation would have still been in the same position it is now. Destroying two buildings and damaging the Pentagon while killing 3,000 people isn't going to bring any nation to its knees, but it certainly gave us an excuse to go over to the middle east and begin taking control of oil fields, gas reserves and paving the way in Afghanistan for an oil pipeline while allowing the poppy seed industry to begin thriving again because a lot of the money made from the sale of opium over there is used on Wall Street. Furthermore, are you aware that there have been approx. 150,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, but also over 100,000 contractors? That is no coincidence.
[ The towers were professionally turned to dust in 10-12 seconds and brought down into their own footprints with such power and sophistication that their demise baffles even the most expert of demolitionists. Do you think a natural building collapse is going to make lower Manhattan look like a volcano had just gone off?]
Col Flagg, I know that you and many on this board share your opinion, that it was not the planes that took down the 3 towers but a secrete entity (CIA, Mossad, US Military, whoever) but I respectfully disagree with it.
And I respect your freedom to disagree, but I'm going to try and defend my position as well given my knowledge and research into what happened.
I am not an engineer or a demolition expert but I am a thinker. I am also a retired construction worker of 20 years and have worked on high rises. So I know what it would take to expose and then restore each of the columns that held up the Twin Towers. I also try and use logic on a problem. If the facts don’t add up something is wrong. Either the conclusion is wrong or the facts are. So here are the facts as I, a thinker/construction worker, sees them. Again I am trying to be respectful here. I don’t believe anyone is an “idiot”, “conspiracy theorist”, or “right wing nut job” (I have been called all of these) who believe otherwise. To each his own. So;
Lets look at it as a contractor would.
1. You need to plan how to get to and restore each column in the building. Most columns are obvious and easily assessable, out in the open but still behind drywall and sprayed on fire proof insulation. Other columns will be harder to get to with plumbing and electrical conduit in the way. That all needs to be either removed or moved out of the way.
From the research I've done on the subject, all you would need to do is obtain access to the core through the elevator shafts and place cutter charges at strategic locations and then blow an X number of floors in a timed manner to achieve what we saw live on TV. A new technology had been developed before 9/11 that allowed for aerosolized explosives... I can't recall the details of it, but this would have been an easy way to rig the building for demolition. Here are some details about it...
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysi ... arics.html
2. Next you need to schedule the setting of explosives on each column in a way that you are not discovered. There will be in the building maintenance workers, janitors, and late working staff in the buildings at all hours of the day and night.
3. How will be explosives be set off, hard wired or using remote detonation? If they are hard wired you’ll have to expose all of the columns together. If you go with remote detonation there is always a miniscule chance of accidental explosion.
This actually appears to have been the case a few times... different angle shots of the towers disintegrating during collapse actually show some charges going off 20 floors or more below the collapse initiation point. Remote detonation is also widely referred to as telemetry.
4. Now you have to hire men with both construction and demolition expertise to do the work. How do you do this and keep the operation secrete? I am sure there wouldn’t be any job interviews done. These guys will have to be sociopaths to knowingly set explosives in a building where thousands of men and women work each day and have the needed skills to do the job. How would you go about recruiting these guys in secrecy?
Sounds to me like you need to do some research into Larry Silverstein, Marvin Bush, the N.Y. Port Authority and how many times they tried to get a permit from the city to demolish the twin towers since they had become financial albatrosses.
So now you have a plan, explosives and mode of detonation, and your tradesmen/demolition experts/sociopaths and you’re ready to go to work. Let’s see how long it will take. We’ll look at one of the Towers. There were at least 40 columns per floor. At 110 floors that is 4,400 columns per building. Next, how many men will you need and how long will it take to do each column? If I were in charge of the construction crew I would have at least 3 men to uncover and restore the column and it would take about 3-4 hours minimum. This would not be in a haphazard manner. Remember you can’t leave a trace. So 1 team of 3 men can do 2 columns a shift, at night I would presume. How many teams per building would you be able to have working to not raise suspicion, 2, 4? Let’s go with 4 teams doing 8 columns per day. That would take 550 days to do each building in secrete without being discovered!
This question, like the previous one, assumes that the demolition of the Twin Towers would have to look like a conventional one, with fuses and large numbers of cutting charges. The charges could have been activated via radio signals in a precise fashion controlled by a computer. Second, the demolitions may have been achieved without accessing the perimeter columns. The fact that the Twin Towers exploded into vast clouds of pulverized concrete, hurling steel assemblies up to 500 feet in all directions shows that they were destroyed with much more energy than a conventional demolition. That gave the planners much more leeway in the placement of charges required to totally destroy the buildings. The core structures contained the building services such as elevators, and plumbing and cabling shafts. It would have been easy for people who controlled building security to allow the perpetrators to surreptitiously install devices in hidden portions of the cores.
My next question is why bother with the demo in the first place. The terrorist already have a plane fully loaded with jet fuel going into 4 of the most important buildings we have. Won’t that be enough damage? I look at it this way. I am the Mr. Gadianton and a minion comes to me with this proposal; we’ll have our terrorist lackeys fly 4 plans loaded with passengers and fuel into the Pentagon, Capital Building, and the Twin Towers. To top it off we’ll hire a bunch of tradesmen/explosive experts/sociopaths to demo the Twin Towers hours after being hit by the planes and bring the buildings down. I would look down on my minion and tell him that the risk wouldn’t be worth it. A project of this size, all the planning and logistics and too many people knowing about it would be too much of a risk of discovery. Just let the planes fly in, burn down the buildings with the people in side. That will be good enough and no one will know we were behind it.
OK, think about this one for a moment... if jet fuel (3/4 kerosene) and 45 minutes of fire is enough to bring down a 110 story building by completely destroying everything and bringing it down straight into its own footprint, why are professional demolition companies hired to lace a building with powerful explosives to bring it down, a task that can cost a LOT of money that takes weeks or months to plan and do, depending upon the size of the structure? Wouldn't it be a heckuva lot cheaper and easier to simply start a few fires on a few floors with kerosene, wait 45 minutes and voila?
I have seen the effects of fire on wood and steel beams. There was this charred wood beam holding up a steel beam that looked like a wet noodle. The fire wasn’t hot enough to burn through the wood beam or melt the steel beam. It was hot enough to weaken the steel beam though. Steel in a fire will lose its strength long before melting. This is what happened in the Twin towers. The planes flying in were shredded by the columns and walls of each floor they hit. The column thus exposed were weakened by the fuel fire and lost their strength. The weight of the floors above came down which caused the steel beams underneath to collapse. This chain reaction carried through all the way to the ground. The explosive dust and debris seen in video is the force of the pancaking effect. Each floor falling on the next pushed the air/ debris/dust out in an explosive effect. Like clapping your hands together but the size of a building!
Let's assume this is indeed a correct assumption of what happened. How, then, do you account for the molten metal found flowing under all 3 buildings' basements (building 7 is #3) like lava, as reported by rescuers and fire department personnel? Even when they tried to extinguish it with water, nothing happened. This is exactly what you could expect and would witness from a thermite reaction taking place. Here's a little info. on thermite...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite
Also, a natural, pancake collapse of a building would not produce pyroclastic flows (super-hot clouds of gas due to extreme temperature and energy) that envelop an entire city, which then travel out over a body of water.
Col. Flagg, again, I respect yours and any other person’s point of view. I have been called a kook before
That's OK... so is/was Ron Paul for speaking the truth and being honest, ethical and moral in taking on unrighteous dominion and corruption in Washington, especially with regard to the privately owned 'Fed'.
and will not do that on this subject or any other. I can see your point of view. I just disagree. There are many other theories of government deception which we may never know the truth until the Millinium:
1. The JFK assassination.
My opinion: he was shot from a storm drain under the street. They even did a re-enactment of this possibility and found that not only was it plausible, but highly likely.
2. The Moon Landing
My opinion: we landed on the moon. Not sure how/why this conspiracy even got started?
3. UFOs and Area 51.
My opinion: It's a testing/experiment facility for highly advanced aircraft. The military has technology that is probably 20-30 years in the future. It was the military that invented the internet (sorry Al) as a way to communicate without messages being intercepted. They had this technology in the '60's and 30 years later, the public had it.
Just to name a few. BTW here’s may theories;
1. Oswald didn’t work alone. Now here’s my crazy theory. The Gadiantons had JFK assassinated because he wouldn’t go along with their plan.
My opinion: JFK was killed because he had penned executive order 11110 which would have taken the power away from the federal reserve to control our monetary system. He had stepped on the bankers toes.
Also to prove to the following presidents what they were capable of as a warning. Reagan ignored them, helped bring down the Soviet Union, and was shot for his bucking the LDGs. He set their Program back a few years but as you can see Russia is back.
2. The Moon Landing did take place.
3. I can tell you for a fact that there are no UFOs at Area 51. Everything flying around there uses jet fuel. I do have some “different” theories on UFOs but you would have to believe that the City of Enoch and the Ten Tribes are on another sphere.
I don't know what to think about the whole UFO thing?
So as you can see, Col. Flagg, we all have our pet theories and they are as varied as there are thinkers. We have common ground. Evil men brought down the Towers. They were helped by the LDGs. They are the true enemies but we can’t get to them so we fight their tools, the terrorists. Let’s agree to disagree.
I think we're going to have to do that because it sounds like neither of us is going to persuade the other.
Re: If you were a terrorist...
Posted: December 12th, 2008, 4:33 pm
by Col. Flagg
Spence wrote:I've been mostly quiet on this. But I would advise against anyone making statements suggesting violence in an open public forum. Not a smart idea. They're watching, always watching. For that matter, I wouldn't utter it in the safety of my own house and certainly not on a phone.
Bring on the stinking Feds!
Re: If you were a terrorist...
Posted: December 12th, 2008, 5:38 pm
by Oldemandalton
[I think we're going to have to do that because it sounds like neither of us is going to persuade the other.]
[Bring on the stinking Feds!]
See there are some things we can agree on Col. Fagg
Re: If you were a terrorist...
Posted: December 12th, 2008, 5:58 pm
by Col. Flagg
Oldemandalton wrote:[I think we're going to have to do that because it sounds like neither of us is going to persuade the other.]
[Bring on the stinking Feds!]
See there are some things we can agree on Col. Fagg
Re: If you were a terrorist...
Posted: December 12th, 2008, 6:19 pm
by Stephen
I typed up a nice...thoughtful response...and then went to send it and the computer froze!! Lame! Mind you...it was really good...or at least I think so. Dang. My brain is spent to try to reproduce it. Here is a little...
I went through the CERT training a while back. The Department of Homeland Defense sent a rep out to chat with us. Their rep said to us...."In the next 8 years we will have a terrorist attack on our soil...where MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WILL DIE...MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS OF PEOPLE. It's not...it might happen...it's when WILL it happen"!!
Still being tossed around in the news is Liebermans statement to the effect that if Obama becomes president...then we will be attacked shortly after he gains office to test him as a president. That sentiment was also echoed by other government officials.
These two small examples show us that the government has warned us and continues to warn us of such attacks...we are merely seeking to understand the enemy to be prepared for them. For example....after reading such info...I put some particle masks in my bug out bag...and some iodine pills for nuclear fallout.
In my estiimation...and as I look at it....certainly the LDG's will use BOM tactics of crossing ones words...and surely the "Doors of Carthage" will enclose the innocent again as Bruce McConkie has said. When I read the words of Amulek I often think...that perhaps if I am ever brought before a tribunal on trumped up charges that I might respond with those same words. While I don't advocate connecting the dots for the swine...this topic is in my opinion mainstream.
Yes. They do watch...and what we are doing is using a forum that discusses "preparation" for such events to truly be ready for the enemy as our government has warned us about. It is proper preparation to discuss the methods of the evil doers...to know how we can best be prepared. There is nothing underhanded going on here...and certainly no true LDS would EVER support terrorist acts!!!! And to say that any of us had advocated such things in any of these threads would be only possible through the finest of lawyer misinterpretation.
We stand with President Hinckley who said in "The Times in Which we Live" that....
I think that I am not out of line in saying that there is not one person here who would not support our government using constitutional means and doctrinally correct methods to confront the forces of evil and holding them accountable for their actions! We are team players!! Constitutional law abiding citizens!
(This version came off more redundant and less flowey...oh well)