LDS Freedom Forum

Mindfields wrote: ↑October 5th, 2023, 4:32 am I think Joseph Smith taught a whole lot of false doctrine. Source? Book of Mormon

Luke wrote: ↑October 5th, 2023, 2:30 am Joseph Smith was the Holy Ghost. As far as anyone teaching false doctrine about the Holy Ghost goes, Joseph Smith can be easily ruled out of that category of individuals.

Dusty Wanderer wrote: ↑October 4th, 2023, 6:05 pm

SJR3t2 wrote: ↑October 2nd, 2023, 8:17 pm Just because someone claimed Joseph Smith taught it doesn't mean he did.

JS said abide the scriptures not statements because will claim to be from him years after he was murdered https://seekingyhwh.org/2023/07/12/jose ... ast-dream/

Thanks for posting the link. I've read the dream before, but appreciated your explication w/ other sources.

Being There wrote: ↑October 6th, 2023, 9:47 am

Luke wrote: ↑October 5th, 2023, 2:30 am Joseph Smith was the Holy Ghost. As far as anyone teaching false doctrine about the Holy Ghost goes, Joseph Smith can be easily ruled out of that category of individuals.

lol.
talk about nonsense
What JS taught about the HG,
is completely wrong and false doctrine,
and contrary to what The Book of Mormon and other scriptures say.

Joseph Smith taught

"But the Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body, as the Savior did or as God did or the gods before them took bodies; for the Savior says the work that my Father did do I also. . . . He took himself a body and then laid down his life that he might take it up again." (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 382; standardized)

On the doctrine that the Holy Ghost will one day receive a body,
Franklin D. Richards records in his writings the following:
"Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same as a similar course of things
that the Son has"
(in Andrew F. Ehat and Lyndon W. Cook, Words of Joseph Smith [Provo, Utah: BYU Religious Studies Center, 1980], 245).

Joseph Smith also has been noted as saying that the Holy Ghost is a calling or an office.
-----------------------------------------

Book of Mormon teaches

The Holy Ghost is the Lord's spirit.

The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost being ONE GOD - and ONE PERSON -
even our Lord and Savior - Jesus Christ.

Mosiah 15
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand
that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son,
because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.


The Book of Ether
Chapter 4

7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are.

8 And he that will contend against the word of the Lord, let him be accursed; and he that shall deny these things, let him be accursed; for unto them will I show no greater things, saith Jesus Christ;
for I am he who speaketh.

11 But he that believeth these things which I have spoken,
him will I visit with the manifestations of my Spirit, and he shall know and bear record.
For because of my Spirit he shall know that these things are true; for it persuadeth men to do good.

12 And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me.
I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me—that I am; and he that will not believe me will not believe the Father who sent me.
For behold, I am the Father,
I am the light, and the life, and the truth of the world.

The Book of Ether
Chapter 3
14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people.
Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son.
In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.
----------------------------------------

"Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore,
they speak the words of Christ.
Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ;
for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do."
(and who guides you and teaches you, and "tells you all things what ye should do" ?
The Holy Ghost - The Lord's spirit)
2 Nephi 32


***** look at the scriptures below.
notice how the words "Comforter" and "comfortless" are being used in these scriptures -
saying that "the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost"
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost
and as here in this verse "and you shall receive my Spirit, the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter,
and which then showing that this same "Comforter" is Jesus Himself -
by these scriptures -
"he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.


18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.



*****
Doctrine and Covenants
Section 36
2 And I will lay my hand upon you by the hand of my servant Sidney Rigdon,
and you shall receive my Spirit, the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter,
which shall teach you the peaceable things of the kingdom;


John 14
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

ransomme wrote: ↑October 8th, 2023, 11:29 pm

Being There wrote: ↑October 6th, 2023, 9:47 am

Luke wrote: ↑October 5th, 2023, 2:30 am Joseph Smith was the Holy Ghost. As far as anyone teaching false doctrine about the Holy Ghost goes, Joseph Smith can be easily ruled out of that category of individuals.

lol.
talk about nonsense
What JS taught about the HG,
is completely wrong and false doctrine,
and contrary to what The Book of Mormon and other scriptures say.

Joseph Smith taught

"But the Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body, as the Savior did or as God did or the gods before them took bodies; for the Savior says the work that my Father did do I also. . . . He took himself a body and then laid down his life that he might take it up again." (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 382; standardized)

On the doctrine that the Holy Ghost will one day receive a body,
Franklin D. Richards records in his writings the following:
"Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same as a similar course of things
that the Son has"
(in Andrew F. Ehat and Lyndon W. Cook, Words of Joseph Smith [Provo, Utah: BYU Religious Studies Center, 1980], 245).

Joseph Smith also has been noted as saying that the Holy Ghost is a calling or an office.
-----------------------------------------

Book of Mormon teaches

The Holy Ghost is the Lord's spirit.

The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost being ONE GOD - and ONE PERSON -
even our Lord and Savior - Jesus Christ.

Mosiah 15
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand
that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son,
because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.


The Book of Ether
Chapter 4

7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are.

8 And he that will contend against the word of the Lord, let him be accursed; and he that shall deny these things, let him be accursed; for unto them will I show no greater things, saith Jesus Christ;
for I am he who speaketh.

11 But he that believeth these things which I have spoken,
him will I visit with the manifestations of my Spirit, and he shall know and bear record.
For because of my Spirit he shall know that these things are true; for it persuadeth men to do good.

12 And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me.
I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me—that I am; and he that will not believe me will not believe the Father who sent me.
For behold, I am the Father,
I am the light, and the life, and the truth of the world.

The Book of Ether
Chapter 3
14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people.
Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son.
In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.
----------------------------------------

"Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore,
they speak the words of Christ.
Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ;
for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do."
(and who guides you and teaches you, and "tells you all things what ye should do" ?
The Holy Ghost - The Lord's spirit)
2 Nephi 32


***** look at the scriptures below.
notice how the words "Comforter" and "comfortless" are being used in these scriptures -
saying that "the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost"
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost
and as here in this verse "and you shall receive my Spirit, the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter,
and which then showing that this same "Comforter" is Jesus Himself -
by these scriptures -
"he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.


18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.



*****
Doctrine and Covenants
Section 36
2 And I will lay my hand upon you by the hand of my servant Sidney Rigdon,
and you shall receive my Spirit, the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter,
which shall teach you the peaceable things of the kingdom;


John 14
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

So you are taking a triune/trinity view?

I agree with you in the thread generally, but the verses you quoted are speaking about "oneness" which is different than one and the same, or sameness.

For instance Father doesn't mean daddy, or biological father so to speak.

Satan is not the first person ever to lie, yet he is the "Father" of lies. Father and Son are used correspondingly, figuratively and not literally.

Jesus is the Father of creation because God created through Jesus.

Jesus is our Father because He is the author and finisher of our faith. He is our spiritual leader and once we qualify He adopts us; we become His; we bear His name, etc.

Being There wrote: ↑October 8th, 2023, 11:52 pm

ransomme wrote: ↑October 8th, 2023, 11:29 pm

Being There wrote: ↑October 6th, 2023, 9:47 am

lol.
talk about nonsense
What JS taught about the HG,
is completely wrong and false doctrine,
and contrary to what The Book of Mormon and other scriptures say.

Joseph Smith taught

"But the Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body, as the Savior did or as God did or the gods before them took bodies; for the Savior says the work that my Father did do I also. . . . He took himself a body and then laid down his life that he might take it up again." (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 382; standardized)

On the doctrine that the Holy Ghost will one day receive a body,
Franklin D. Richards records in his writings the following:
"Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same as a similar course of things
that the Son has"
(in Andrew F. Ehat and Lyndon W. Cook, Words of Joseph Smith [Provo, Utah: BYU Religious Studies Center, 1980], 245).

Joseph Smith also has been noted as saying that the Holy Ghost is a calling or an office.
-----------------------------------------

Book of Mormon teaches

The Holy Ghost is the Lord's spirit.

The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost being ONE GOD - and ONE PERSON -
even our Lord and Savior - Jesus Christ.

Mosiah 15
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand
that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son,
because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.


The Book of Ether
Chapter 4

7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are.

8 And he that will contend against the word of the Lord, let him be accursed; and he that shall deny these things, let him be accursed; for unto them will I show no greater things, saith Jesus Christ;
for I am he who speaketh.

11 But he that believeth these things which I have spoken,
him will I visit with the manifestations of my Spirit, and he shall know and bear record.
For because of my Spirit he shall know that these things are true; for it persuadeth men to do good.

12 And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me.
I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me—that I am; and he that will not believe me will not believe the Father who sent me.
For behold, I am the Father,
I am the light, and the life, and the truth of the world.

The Book of Ether
Chapter 3
14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people.
Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son.
In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.
----------------------------------------

"Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore,
they speak the words of Christ.
Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ;
for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do."
(and who guides you and teaches you, and "tells you all things what ye should do" ?
The Holy Ghost - The Lord's spirit)
2 Nephi 32


***** look at the scriptures below.
notice how the words "Comforter" and "comfortless" are being used in these scriptures -
saying that "the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost"
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost
and as here in this verse "and you shall receive my Spirit, the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter,
and which then showing that this same "Comforter" is Jesus Himself -
by these scriptures -
"he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.


18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.



*****
Doctrine and Covenants
Section 36
2 And I will lay my hand upon you by the hand of my servant Sidney Rigdon,
and you shall receive my Spirit, the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter,
which shall teach you the peaceable things of the kingdom;


John 14
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

So you are taking a triune/trinity view?

I agree with you in the thread generally, but the verses you quoted are speaking about "oneness" which is different than one and the same, or sameness.

For instance Father doesn't mean daddy, or biological father so to speak.

Satan is not the first person ever to lie, yet he is the "Father" of lies. Father and Son are used correspondingly, figuratively and not literally.

Jesus is the Father of creation because God created through Jesus.

Jesus is our Father because He is the author and finisher of our faith. He is our spiritual leader and once we qualify He adopts us; we become His; we bear His name, etc.

I believe in what the scriptures say.
You can take them how you want -
but to me they're pretty plain what they are saying.

If by saying - 4 times - in the scriptures below -
that Jesus is the father and the son
Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son
doesn't mean
that He is the father and the son - then English and The Book of Mormon have become useless
and this is not true -
"And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth."
"that God himself shall come down among the children of men"



Mosiah 15
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand
that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son,
because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.


12 And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me.
I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me—that I am; and he that will not believe me will not believe the Father who sent me.
For behold, I am the Father,
I am the light, and the life, and the truth of the world.

The Book of Ether
Chapter 3
14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people.
Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son.
In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.

ransomme wrote: ↑October 9th, 2023, 1:33 am

Being There wrote: ↑October 8th, 2023, 11:52 pm

ransomme wrote: ↑October 8th, 2023, 11:29 pm

So you are taking a triune/trinity view?

I agree with you in the thread generally, but the verses you quoted are speaking about "oneness" which is different than one and the same, or sameness.

For instance Father doesn't mean daddy, or biological father so to speak.

Satan is not the first person ever to lie, yet he is the "Father" of lies. Father and Son are used correspondingly, figuratively and not literally.

Jesus is the Father of creation because God created through Jesus.

Jesus is our Father because He is the author and finisher of our faith. He is our spiritual leader and once we qualify He adopts us; we become His; we bear His name, etc.

I believe in what the scriptures say.
You can take them how you want -
but to me they're pretty plain what they are saying.

If by saying - 4 times - in the scriptures below -
that Jesus is the father and the son
Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son
doesn't mean
that He is the father and the son - then English and The Book of Mormon have become useless
and this is not true -
"And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth."
"that God himself shall come down among the children of men"



Mosiah 15
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand
that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son,
because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.


12 And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me.
I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me—that I am; and he that will not believe me will not believe the Father who sent me.
For behold, I am the Father,
I am the light, and the life, and the truth of the world.

The Book of Ether
Chapter 3
14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people.
Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son.
In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.

That's right, I believe too. He is God, and the Son. Yet there is more to understand. We are to become His sons and daughters.

Key word "becoming"
Screenshot_20231009-110851.jpg

Mosiah 5
7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.

Ether 3
14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.

Ether 4
7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are.

Moroni 7
48 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, pray unto the Father with all the energy of heart, that ye may be filled with this love, which he hath bestowed upon all who are true followers of his Son, Jesus Christ.; that ye may become the sons of God; that when he shall appear we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is; that we may have this hope; that we may be purified even as he is pure. Amen.

D&C 35
2 I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who was crucified for the sins of the world, even as many as will believe on my name, that they may become the sons of God, even one in me as I am one in the Father, as the Father is one in me, that we may be one.

John 1
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Genesis 6 (JST)
69And he heard a voice out of heaven, saying, Thou art baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost; this is the record of the Father and the Son from henceforth and forever;
70And thou art after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity.
71Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all become my sons. Amen.

Genesis 7 (JST)
And it came to pass that Enoch continued his speech, saying, Behold, our father Adam taught these things; and many have believed and become the sons of God; and many have believed not, and have perished in their sins, and are looking forth with fear, in torment, for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God to be poured out upon them.

ransomme wrote: ↑October 9th, 2023, 1:33 am

Being There wrote: ↑October 8th, 2023, 11:52 pm

ransomme wrote: ↑October 8th, 2023, 11:29 pm

So you are taking a triune/trinity view?

I agree with you in the thread generally, but the verses you quoted are speaking about "oneness" which is different than one and the same, or sameness.

For instance Father doesn't mean daddy, or biological father so to speak.

Satan is not the first person ever to lie, yet he is the "Father" of lies. Father and Son are used correspondingly, figuratively and not literally.

Jesus is the Father of creation because God created through Jesus.

Jesus is our Father because He is the author and finisher of our faith. He is our spiritual leader and once we qualify He adopts us; we become His; we bear His name, etc.

I believe in what the scriptures say.
You can take them how you want -
but to me they're pretty plain what they are saying.

If by saying - 4 times - in the scriptures below -
that Jesus is the father and the son
Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son
doesn't mean
that He is the father and the son - then English and The Book of Mormon have become useless
and this is not true -
"And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth."
"that God himself shall come down among the children of men"



Mosiah 15
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand
that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son,
because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.


12 And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me.
I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me—that I am; and he that will not believe me will not believe the Father who sent me.
For behold, I am the Father,
I am the light, and the life, and the truth of the world.

The Book of Ether
Chapter 3
14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people.
Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son.
In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.

That's right, I believe too. He is God, and the Son. Yet there is more to understand. We are to become His sons and daughters.

Key word "becoming"
Screenshot_20231009-110851.jpg

Mosiah 5
7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.

Ether 3
14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.

Ether 4
7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are.

Moroni 7
48 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, pray unto the Father with all the energy of heart, that ye may be filled with this love, which he hath bestowed upon all who are true followers of his Son, Jesus Christ.; that ye may become the sons of God; that when he shall appear we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is; that we may have this hope; that we may be purified even as he is pure. Amen.

D&C 35
2 I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who was crucified for the sins of the world, even as many as will believe on my name, that they may become the sons of God, even one in me as I am one in the Father, as the Father is one in me, that we may be one.

John 1
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Genesis 6 (JST)
69And he heard a voice out of heaven, saying, Thou art baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost; this is the record of the Father and the Son from henceforth and forever;
70And thou art after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity.
71Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all become my sons. Amen.

Genesis 7 (JST)
And it came to pass that Enoch continued his speech, saying, Behold, our father Adam taught these things; and many have believed and become the sons of God; and many have believed not, and have perished in their sins, and are looking forth with fear, in torment, for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God to be poured out upon them.

Being There wrote: ↑October 9th, 2023, 8:30 am

ransomme wrote: ↑October 9th, 2023, 1:33 am

Being There wrote: ↑October 8th, 2023, 11:52 pm

I believe in what the scriptures say.
You can take them how you want -
but to me they're pretty plain what they are saying.

If by saying - 4 times - in the scriptures below -
that Jesus is the father and the son
Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son
doesn't mean
that He is the father and the son - then English and The Book of Mormon have become useless
and this is not true -
"And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth."
"that God himself shall come down among the children of men"



Mosiah 15
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand
that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son,
because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.


12 And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me.
I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me—that I am; and he that will not believe me will not believe the Father who sent me.
For behold, I am the Father,
I am the light, and the life, and the truth of the world.

The Book of Ether
Chapter 3
14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people.
Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son.
In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.

That's right, I believe too. He is God, and the Son. Yet there is more to understand. We are to become His sons and daughters.

Key word "becoming"
Screenshot_20231009-110851.jpg

Mosiah 5
7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.

Ether 3
14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.

Ether 4
7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are.

Moroni 7
48 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, pray unto the Father with all the energy of heart, that ye may be filled with this love, which he hath bestowed upon all who are true followers of his Son, Jesus Christ.; that ye may become the sons of God; that when he shall appear we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is; that we may have this hope; that we may be purified even as he is pure. Amen.

D&C 35
2 I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who was crucified for the sins of the world, even as many as will believe on my name, that they may become the sons of God, even one in me as I am one in the Father, as the Father is one in me, that we may be one.

John 1
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Genesis 6 (JST)
69And he heard a voice out of heaven, saying, Thou art baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost; this is the record of the Father and the Son from henceforth and forever;
70And thou art after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity.
71Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all become my sons. Amen.

Genesis 7 (JST)
And it came to pass that Enoch continued his speech, saying, Behold, our father Adam taught these things; and many have believed and become the sons of God; and many have believed not, and have perished in their sins, and are looking forth with fear, in torment, for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God to be poured out upon them.

and so ?
simplified - how does this change anything I said.

Being There wrote: ↑October 8th, 2023, 11:52 pm

ransomme wrote: ↑October 8th, 2023, 11:29 pm

Being There wrote: ↑October 6th, 2023, 9:47 am

lol.
talk about nonsense
What JS taught about the HG,
is completely wrong and false doctrine,
and contrary to what The Book of Mormon and other scriptures say.

Joseph Smith taught

"But the Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body, as the Savior did or as God did or the gods before them took bodies; for the Savior says the work that my Father did do I also. . . . He took himself a body and then laid down his life that he might take it up again." (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 382; standardized)

On the doctrine that the Holy Ghost will one day receive a body,
Franklin D. Richards records in his writings the following:
"Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same as a similar course of things
that the Son has"
(in Andrew F. Ehat and Lyndon W. Cook, Words of Joseph Smith [Provo, Utah: BYU Religious Studies Center, 1980], 245).

Joseph Smith also has been noted as saying that the Holy Ghost is a calling or an office.
-----------------------------------------

Book of Mormon teaches

The Holy Ghost is the Lord's spirit.

The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost being ONE GOD - and ONE PERSON -
even our Lord and Savior - Jesus Christ.

Mosiah 15
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand
that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son,
because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.


The Book of Ether
Chapter 4

7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are.

8 And he that will contend against the word of the Lord, let him be accursed; and he that shall deny these things, let him be accursed; for unto them will I show no greater things, saith Jesus Christ;
for I am he who speaketh.

11 But he that believeth these things which I have spoken,
him will I visit with the manifestations of my Spirit, and he shall know and bear record.
For because of my Spirit he shall know that these things are true; for it persuadeth men to do good.

12 And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me.
I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me—that I am; and he that will not believe me will not believe the Father who sent me.
For behold, I am the Father,
I am the light, and the life, and the truth of the world.

The Book of Ether
Chapter 3
14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people.
Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son.
In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.
----------------------------------------

"Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore,
they speak the words of Christ.
Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ;
for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do."
(and who guides you and teaches you, and "tells you all things what ye should do" ?
The Holy Ghost - The Lord's spirit)
2 Nephi 32


***** look at the scriptures below.
notice how the words "Comforter" and "comfortless" are being used in these scriptures -
saying that "the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost"
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost
and as here in this verse "and you shall receive my Spirit, the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter,
and which then showing that this same "Comforter" is Jesus Himself -
by these scriptures -
"he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.


18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.



*****
Doctrine and Covenants
Section 36
2 And I will lay my hand upon you by the hand of my servant Sidney Rigdon,
and you shall receive my Spirit, the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter,
which shall teach you the peaceable things of the kingdom;


John 14
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

So you are taking a triune/trinity view?

I agree with you in the thread generally, but the verses you quoted are speaking about "oneness" which is different than one and the same, or sameness.

For instance Father doesn't mean daddy, or biological father so to speak.

Satan is not the first person ever to lie, yet he is the "Father" of lies. Father and Son are used correspondingly, figuratively and not literally.

Jesus is the Father of creation because God created through Jesus.

Jesus is our Father because He is the author and finisher of our faith. He is our spiritual leader and once we qualify He adopts us; we become His; we bear His name, etc.

I believe in what the scriptures say.
You can take them how you want -
but to me they're pretty plain what they are saying.

If by saying - 4 times - in the scriptures below -
that Jesus is the father and the son
Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son
doesn't mean
that He is the father and the son - then English and The Book of Mormon have become useless
and this is not true -
"And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth."
"that God himself shall come down among the children of men"



Mosiah 15
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand
that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son,
because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.


12 And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me.
I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me—that I am; and he that will not believe me will not believe the Father who sent me.
For behold, I am the Father,
I am the light, and the life, and the truth of the world.

The Book of Ether
Chapter 3
14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people.
Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son.
In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.