LDS Freedom Forum

I've mentioned I have a friend in Salt Lake who doesn't attend church because she thinks there is a link between the churches policy on LGBT issues and the suicide rate of young boys, and she doesn't think that is right, how do I help her understand that the only thing she is doing by staying away from church is hurting herself and her family? It doesn't make any sense to me? or am I missing the point here?

Dusty52 wrote: ↑July 5th, 2018, 1:48 am I've mentioned I have a friend in Salt Lake who doesn't attend church because she thinks there is a link between the churches policy on LGBT issues and the suicide rate of young boys, and she doesn't think that is right, how do I help her understand that the only thing she is doing by staying away from church is hurting herself and her family? It doesn't make any sense to me? or am I missing the point here?

In my view she is probably simply using this issue as an excuse.
She doesn't really want to go, so she hangs her hat on this particular issue in order to justify it.

Ask her why she thinks she is exempt from renewing her covenants.

Makes sense to me

Yes, it’s a scapegoat. The church has plenty of flaws but causing suicide is not one of them. She and anyone else could not point to ANY evidence suggesting the church is responsible for such suicides.

As mentioned...

No, statistically, suicide is 90% due to mental illness and a list of other reasons. https://mentalhealthdaily.com/2014/07/2 ... hemselves/

It is horrible that many fall for homosexual lies that other people are responsible for how an individual feels. This can worsen mental illness - or suicidal thoughts because blaming others pretends others have all of the power and the individual has none, when that’s not true. It’s disempowering. Also, telling teens or youth that a church or others are to blame for their problems has contributed to the pathology that has lead to school killings.

Utah is way over prescribed with drugs. Utah leads the nation in anti-depressants. And guess what insane side effect anti-depressants have? Suicidal thoughts!

More natural remedies need to be tried - exercise, good diet, good sleep, serving, and correcting cognitive distortions. https://psychcentral.com/lib/challengin ... -outlooks/ One common issue in the church which affects all - young, old, male and female - is excessive shame and punitive life trap. http://www.tunnelukkosi.fi/en/lifetraps.htm

Jordan Peterson has said many young men have written him thanking him for basically telling them to be more responsible and get their act together to contribute to this world - they felt needed, whereas before they felt lost, shamed or discounted as males. I’m not blaming feminism, but when it is extreme and dysfunctional, it may play a part.

She's listening to propaganda at home while not hearing the right ideas and inspiration about how things really are. I've been through this before, not with gay issues, but with an anti-mormon family member. I've heard and caught them giving spoon fulls of poison to unsuspecting family members when other adults aren't around to counter it.

The church is not the source of the problems. It's also incredible to think that the church would become their target of their enmity so fast. The gay movement has only been out in the open for a very few years, not even 10 ...and it's supposed to be saying the church is everyone's source of problems? That's just unrealistic. More than 90% of the church's history there wasn't even any open gay movement. So how could we be everyone's scapegoat if they aren't even around in most of our history?

Rather than being the source of their problems, what's happening is these people are giving propaganda to force 'disarming' of anyone with a different view point than they have. That's wrong. That's the real intolerance. If you insist that everyone else has to change and not you, that's not tolerating other groups. Yet, they accuse us of that.

We're not even really that vocal. People's experiences are all from their one on one experiences with normal people, often not even church members. And someone doesn't jump the way they like, and suddenly that person has a bullseye. That's how the LGBTQSheeple movement is. If you aren't on their side, they perceive you with intense enmity.

The church doesn't teach enmity. We teach enmity should be avoided. But people that don't tolerate others' beliefs are full of enmity.

A good example that we're not really the bad guys is how California is trying to make it illegal right now for any literature that teaches homosexuality is wrong. This means that if that legislation passes that the sale of Bibles in California (and possibly Book of Mormons too?) can be immediately litigated against, persecuted legally, and stopped. Yet these guys say that other people are the villains.

We never made their movement illegal.

But they sure are trying pretty hard to get anyone else with a different view to be outlaws.

Thinker wrote: ↑July 5th, 2018, 6:51 am
Utah is way over prescribed with drugs. Utah leads the nation in anti-depressants. And guess what insane side effect anti-depressants have? Suicidal thoughts!

The only reason Utah leads the nation in anti-depressants is because everywhere else high strung people can self medicate by have a couple of beers everynight. Happy hour on the way home takes the place of doctors prescriptions for the low level anguish of dis-satisfied lives.

Utah and Mormon culture have squeezed self medication so tight, that doctors prescriptions are the only remedy.

(At least until the medical marijuana issue is passed.....

JK4Woods wrote: ↑July 6th, 2018, 1:36 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑July 5th, 2018, 6:51 am
Utah is way over prescribed with drugs. Utah leads the nation in anti-depressants. And guess what insane side effect anti-depressants have? Suicidal thoughts!

The only reason Utah leads the nation in anti-depressants is because everywhere else high strung people can self medicate by have a couple of beers everynight. Happy hour on the way home takes the place of doctors prescriptions for the low level anguish of dis-satisfied lives.

Utah and Mormon culture have squeezed self medication so tight, that doctors prescriptions are the only remedy.

(At least until the medical marijuana issue is passed.....

Might be true. But on the other hand booze is readily available here. What if you were to look up the statistics on how much booze is sold in Utah, vs other states?

I have seen those statistics before, nationwide, and if I remember the average American ... (I looked up some 'statistics' ...)

19 gallons of beer per adult person is sold in Utah each year. That's low. Some states it's 28 gallons, CT is 21 gallons.

Now, I can honestly tell you I did not buy, nor drink my 19 gallons. That means someone else out there drank my share, as well as theirs.

Hard to imagine. And that doesn't include the hard stuff, whiskey, Scotch, gin, etc.
dc

JK4Woods wrote: ↑July 6th, 2018, 1:36 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑July 5th, 2018, 6:51 am
Utah is way over prescribed with drugs. Utah leads the nation in anti-depressants. And guess what insane side effect anti-depressants have? Suicidal thoughts!

The only reason Utah leads the nation in anti-depressants is because everywhere else high strung people can self medicate by have a couple of beers everynight. Happy hour on the way home takes the place of doctors prescriptions for the low level anguish of dis-satisfied lives.

Utah and Mormon culture have squeezed self medication so tight, that doctors prescriptions are the only remedy.

(At least until the medical marijuana issue is passed.....

I’d say lack of drinking alcohol (& lack of psychological break) is one reason - but not the only reason. And even that reason is questionable...

“The National Alliance on Mental Illness says roughly 37 percent of people who abuse alcohol also have a serious mental illness. Can having depression or anxiety lead you to drink? Can serious drinking cause depression and anxiety?

According to a study by the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, the answer to both question is yes, but depression usually comes first for many. While alcohol can be closely linked to depression and anxiety, one may not cause the other but can exacerbate a condition.

Reaching for a drink may be a way to self-medicate or an attempt to reduce the uncomfortable symptoms that can come with anxiety and depression. While that may seem to help at first, in the end it is actually counterproductive and can become a difficult cycle to break.” https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/valley/c ... 5cde1.html

Some have suggested high altitude and lack of oxygen, but then Colorado would have high rates too. Though that could play a part.

I believe that it is largely cultural (Utah) mormonism along with warped Christianity. I read in a book by lds authors Top, that up to 80% of mental illness is rooted in misunderstandings of Judaic/Christian doctrines.

I outlined how I’ve noticed cognitive distortions believed in the church. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21159&p=256839&hili ... ng#p256839

Another study found that moderation in religious involvement helped physical healing more than excessive religious involvement or no religious involvement. This is partly why it is important that people learn to think for themselves - to study, ponder and pray - rather than blindly obeying herd mentality - no matter how popular the mentality.