LDS Freedom Forum

I have a friend who has an addiction, he says he can't remember a time when he didn't have it, it controls his life, he has tried to stop many many times but can't, he constantly returns to it, he knows it is wrong, not because of anything the church teaches but because of the way the addiction makes him feel. He is tired of the fight, he doesn't know when the fight will end, he has considered suicide as a way out! he has attended the church's addiction recovery program but it didn't work. He has tried to figure out the root cause of the addiction but he gave up on that, it is deeply engrained into who he is, how he interacts with other people, etc. He attends church, he is married with children, but I know his marriage is rocky, the addiction has made him selfish, his wife knows about his addicttion and has stood by him over the years they've been married, but he had the addiction before that, he has asked me for help, I don't know what to say or where to start? how can I help him finally get over his addiction? I suppose there are no easy answers, he just wants to live his life free from this addiction, walking around with guilt and self loathing

If it was me I'd listen to church hymns and scriptures by audio the whole day. You basically work and just listen to them on earbuds. Doing chores also...tasks during the day you still be busy and do whatever, but constantly trying to be filling up with something good. Filling oneself up with the love of God and love of Jesus is the only way out of the pit.

Where people have trouble in stopping the addiction is they have to replace the addiction with something good. So in a way, you have to sort of trick yourself into turning an addiction to ...whatever the problem is, into an addiction to Jesus and the scriptures instead. Your friend will have to be willing to change, and willing to face the consequences too. It's also better to turn around asap.

Well that's my thought as far as I can tell. But I'm not an expert.

Also...where some people fall is that they have to hit rock bottom before they are willing to change. So if there's a way for your friend to face the fact that he may be at rock bottom and not want to go there and pull out of tailspin early that might help.

He feels powerless. He needs to find a sense of power back for himself. He seems to be acting like a victim, based on what you say. Which is understandable when your overwhelmed and powerless to help yourself.

You said he was selfish and self loathing and depressed. He needs to get out of himself and help someone else. Advise him to be more active with his family. This will help him feel better about himself and as he enjoys it more, he will think and act less on his problems.

He has to want it bad enough to change, it's really that simple. And he may have to hit rock bottom. His family could leave him and he may have to face his demons alone.

Of he can just not do it 1x that he feels compelled to, it's a big step. Just fighting the feeling by not giving in helps.

If you want to really really help your friend, you could have him take a vacation from work and do a detox the old fashioned way. Lock him a room without his addiction and he can moan and scream through the worst of it and gain some power back in the end.

You didn't say his addiction but by the sound of it its either sex or porn. He needs a detox from it.

Whatever issue he has been covering up with his addiction will have to surface for him to understand why he's doing it. If he doesn't even want to know why then he's not going to change or it will be temporary only.

Addiction produces an anxious feeling and he needs to stop feeding it everytime he feels that anxiety. Once he can break that cycle it will become easier. He needs to know he won't actually die if he doesn't do it. Bad feelings will come with addictions and so will fear and rage and other out of control feelings, he needs to feel those and go through it. I mean, what he's doing is worse anyways as all addictions are.

If he expects it to go away on its own, it wont. If it's porn related has he read the text that mentiones evil spirits and what they are doing to him when he watching it? I hear that scares some people away from doing it.

Counseling is as necessary as other actions. If you look at how detox facilities do things you will see they always include counseling as part of the treatment.

Every other page it seems in the NT Christ is casting out devils and unclean / familiar spirits.

Ephesians 6:

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Invite this person to read mosiah 2-5 every day for a month straight. More than sufficent information is found in these chapters to teach / show how to act and inspire a person what to pray for so as to overcome through Jesus their weaknesses.

These chapters are detailed in understanding and showing the what the why and the how come of having Christ make our weaknesses become strengths. In other words sweet enhanced clarity on laying hold on the truths of the verse below.

Ether 12:

27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.


Tell him through the divine patterns detailing how we become converted / changed through Christ found in the teachings of King Bejamin and seeing these truths in action through the transforming miracle of Jesus and his atonement in .K.B.'s peoples lives ---he will move forward in faith in christ:

Hebrews 11
.6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Yes indeed as he realizes to let go and let God by diligently seeking him (monthly challange etc)

He will in time see the fulfillment / be a wittness of this scripture:


Ether 12

6And now, I, Moroni, would speak somewhat concerning these things; I would show unto the world that faith is things which are hoped for and not seen; wherefore, dispute not because ye see not, for ye receive no witness until after the trial of your faith

tell him not to forget the vital example of K.B.'s people in overcoming the natural man and be day to day free of the oppressive forces of evil by being such stellar examples of this scripture:

Matthew 11.


¶ Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


Tell him to read journey to the veil by John pontius to be excellently tutored how to more effectively hear and follow the voice of Christ which will be heard etc more consistently as a result of his upgrade through Jesus, and that the Comforter/ the voice of Christ will fill in the gaps to better help him understand how to continue to overcome and be fortified. Love and prayers extended to and for your friend...

God knows our situation; He will not judge us as if we had no difficulties to overcome. What matters is the sincerity and perseverance of our will to overcome them.
C. S. Lewis

“The bad psychological material is not a sin but a disease. It does not need to be repented of, but to be cured. And by the way, that is very important. Human beings judge one another by their external actions. God judges them by their moral choices. When a neurotic who has a pathological horror of cats forces himself to pick up a cat for some good reason, it is quite possible that in God's eyes he has shown more courage than a healthy man may have shown in winning the V.C. When a man who has been perverted from his youth and taught that cruelty is the right thing does dome tiny little kindness, or refrains from some cruelty he might have committed, and thereby, perhaps, risks being sneered at by his companions, he may, in God's eyes, be doing more than you and I would do if we gave up life itself for a friend.

It is as well to put this the other way round. Some of us who seem quite nice people may, in fact, have made so little use of a good heredity and good upbringing that we are really worse than those whom we regard as fiends. Can we be quite certain how we should have behaved if we had been saddled with the psychological outfit, and then with the bad upbringing, and then with the power, say, of Himmler? That is why Christians are told not to judge. We see only the results which a man's choices make out of his raw material. But God does not judge him on the raw material at all, but on what he has done with it. Most of the man's psychological makeup is probably due to his body: when his body dies all that will fall off him, and the real central man, the thing that chose, that made the best or worst out of this material, will stand naked. All sorts of nice things which we thought our own, but which were really due to a good digestion, will fall off some of us: all sorts of nasty things which were due to complexes or bad health will fall off others. We shall then, for the first time, see every one as he really was. There will be surprises.”

― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

Quite simply, your friend has to stop judging himself by his failures as long as he is sincerely trying to live as he should. This isn't to make an excuse for him, either. There must be real sincere effort. Possibly going to the Lord for counsel. Rather than praying for a specific solution that he has thought up, going to the Lord to ask what to ask for..rather than asking for the strength to overcome the addiction, perhaps a more humble "Lord, what would you have me do?" Is in order. The challenge will more likely be in following thru when an answer is given. It's not meant to be easy, simply possible. With God, all things are possible.

exercise regimen, sleep, proper eating. get control of the body.

You fcan't do any for him. He needs a program, one outside the church, since the church program didn't work for him.
He is the only one who can do anything for himself. And only in a program designed to address his problem. And only then if he truly wants to change and accepts the tenets of the program.
There is no magic wand.
But it all comes from within, not from the internet, nor from a 'friend'.

So direct him to an appropriate program, and then stay out of it. Continue to be his friend as a friend and not anything to do with his addiction or program.

Do not become a sounding board for why he cannot accept the program, nor an enabler.
dc

Initial thoughts are to for him to request a blessing and potentially cast out any evil spirits - there is an essay written by scott Gillespie (I think is his name) on his former Porn addiction and what helped him. Have him pray for faith - we often fail because we do not have the faith even though we think we do.

I might also suggest he change the way his mind thinks. Porn actually changes the wiring in the brain. So instead of him looking at it from a depressing angle i.e. I can't quit take a more positive spin to it like "I only looked at porn and masturbated 1 time today" rather than the 3 times that they might normally act. When they improve (it might start at I didn't look at porn form 1 hour) then make it two, then three. OFten people focus on the long term and it feels hopeless, but focusing on the now helps. Another option that might help is for him to start changing his perspective. When he is triggered he shoud begin to think someting along the lines of that is good as long as it is within the bounds the lord has set, with me and my wife. i.e. sex is good within the bounds the Lord has set and it's purpose is to bring forth children into this world to love and nurture them... etc.

We were given this life to learn to overcome the flesh.

Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

This is what it means to take up our cross and follow Jesus. He knew that we would not be able to do it alone and that we we would relapse again and again. And that is precisely why He died for us so that He could extend His grace. It is not easy to kill the flesh, to crucify our lusts and passions and carnal and worldly desires. But each time we fall, He has the power to pick us up and dust us off again. He has the power of mercy to cleanse us over and over again. Let your friend watch this.

Your friend quite frankly doesn't really want to stop.

I'm reminded of serving a mission and the drunks would come up to us with a handshake and a box of wine in the other. They would complain and say "brother, I want to stop drinking, I don't like being drunk all the time-help me to stop drinking", we would proceed to tell them to hand us the box of wine and we'll pour it out. Oh the wailing, No, No, No don't do that I need my wine-they you really don't want to stop drinking.

To stop an addiction is really easy-you just stop. If it is porn you ditch the internet, if it is alcohol you don't go to the store.

He is weak-willed and weak-minded and for whatever reason he enjoys the sin of the addiction more than repentance. Until he recognizes his awful state and is brought to his knees in repentance, to where the sin of his addiction and the costs of that sin are profoundly make clear to him, he will not quit.

He is tired of the fight b/c he doesn't want to change. The reason why he walks around with guilt and self-loathing is because he knows that he actually enjoys the sin but he knows that he shouldn't enjoy the sin and therefore he hates himself and has guilt b/c he really does like whatever addiction he has.

You can't fight an addiction, "fighting" an addiction is pointless, foolhardy and leads to nowhere.

What you do is you change yourself and the first step in that change is to be completely honest with yourself and part of that honesty is to frankly admit that one enjoys the sins and then learning to change one's very nature through Christ to where you no longer enjoy the sin.

I guarantee you as soon as he no longer enjoys the sin-it will go away.

To quit an addiction-or what it really is is a repetitive, repeatable pattern of one particular type of sinful behavior-two things MUST happen.
1) The individual must make the decision to stop and change who they are-i.e. the very nature of who they are.
2) The individual must receive a large enough pyschic blow (i.e. emotional/spiritual/mental) blow that spurs them to do #1
The third option sometimes happens
3) People gradually change over time to where they mature out/grow out/spiritually grow up to where over time what they were once addicted to become less and less a part of who they are.

I think there is always a really good reason behind an addiction. Spiritual, emotional, etc. That is the hidden blessing behind the addiction. Until you find the true reason behind it, it will not go away. At times it can seem nearly impossible to find the root on your own because you hid it from yourself on purpose. You need lots of nurturing because without it the root behind the addiction is locked up in an underground atomic bunker to keep you safe.

Lots of nurturing and being in a safe, loving environment can convince you the war is over and it is safe to open the bunker and see the truth behind the root of what is causing the addiction that is hiding inside. Practicing self love for where you are at even with the addiction will be essential in order to prepare yourself to face your belief system to find the root cause. In this way, every day of struggle is a blessing and a lesson in loving yourself where you are at and must occur prior to finding the root cause.

Usually that truth is eaten up in pain because of a time you perceived yourself as less than what you are. Most likely because of some extenuating circumstance where you decided you just were not good enough nor worthy of having your heart's desire.

So, instead of questioning your perception that seemed at the time immovable and unchanging, funded to stay that way by the ego who wants to protect you from facing that pain again, and is not interested in being wrong (if I was wrong why did it hurt....well ego, because you didn't forgive, but that's another issue),

So, the brain has decided it is permenantly unable to meet its needs. And this manifests in addiction. An imbalance, a never ending hunger, to represent the piece of irrationality still hiding in your subconscious, such as not being good enough to have your heart's desire. This funds feelings of self loathing and pain and guilt and it is these feelings that fund the addiction.

One way out is very simple. Is God good? If God is good don't you think He will make a way to take care of your needs? Being as He not only created you but He created you with
a heart full of desires...so unless God is a horrible sociopath and created you with all your feelings as some sort of joke so He could make fun of you....then God actually wants you to have your heart's desire and He wants to take care of your needs.

Now in the past it seemed as if He didn't because of such extenuating circumstances. So that is where your untruth is hidden, because at face value we must admit God is good. So inspite of what has happened in the past, can you trust Him that it will be ok inspite of what your five senses told you?

Do you have the faith of a mustard seed? Because if you do, you can be made whole.

But you have to believe you are worth it. You are worth God's tender love and care, no matter what the world or your protective ego is feeding you to believe, to trust in pain instead of find it inside to have a mustard seed of hope that it will all be ok.

That's all for now. Check out the book "Healing the Shame that Binds you" by John Bradshaw and " Feelings Buried Alive Never Die" by Karol Truman. These books are worth thousands of dollars in therapy and I can promise they work. The latter book teaches you how to program yourself to trust again and put faith in the place of fear and pain even for things you don't remember but caused you pain in the past and that need healing. Many times I have not wanted to be healed but everytime I gave in and followed the script in the book I got results. Healing is possible. Good luck.

Dusty52 wrote: ↑July 4th, 2018, 7:39 pm I have a friend who has an addiction, he says he can't remember a time when he didn't have it, it controls his life, he has tried to stop many many times but can't, he constantly returns to it, he knows it is wrong, not because of anything the church teaches but because of the way the addiction makes him feel. He is tired of the fight, he doesn't know when the fight will end, he has considered suicide as a way out! he has attended the church's addiction recovery program but it didn't work. He has tried to figure out the root cause of the addiction but he gave up on that, it is deeply engrained into who he is, how he interacts with other people, etc. He attends church, he is married with children, but I know his marriage is rocky, the addiction has made him selfish, his wife knows about his addicttion and has stood by him over the years they've been married, but he had the addiction before that, he has asked me for help, I don't know what to say or where to start? how can I help him finally get over his addiction? I suppose there are no easy answers, he just wants to live his life free from this addiction, walking around with guilt and self loathing

You should have him look into the Theta Wellness Center in Sandy Utah.

mgridle1 wrote: ↑July 4th, 2018, 10:05 pm Your friend quite frankly doesn't really want to stop.

I'm reminded of serving a mission and the drunks would come up to us with a handshake and a box of wine in the other. They would complain and say "brother, I want to stop drinking, I don't like being drunk all the time-help me to stop drinking", we would proceed to tell them to hand us the box of wine and we'll pour it out. Oh the wailing, No, No, No don't do that I need my wine-they you really don't want to stop drinking.

To stop an addiction is really easy-you just stop. If it is porn you ditch the internet, if it is alcohol you don't go to the store.

He is weak-willed and weak-minded and for whatever reason he enjoys the sin of the addiction more than repentance. Until he recognizes his awful state and is brought to his knees in repentance, to where the sin of his addiction and the costs of that sin are profoundly make clear to him, he will not quit.

He is tired of the fight b/c he doesn't want to change. The reason why he walks around with guilt and self-loathing is because he knows that he actually enjoys the sin but he knows that he shouldn't enjoy the sin and therefore he hates himself and has guilt b/c he really does like whatever addiction he has.

You can't fight an addiction, "fighting" an addiction is pointless, foolhardy and leads to nowhere.

What you do is you change yourself and the first step in that change is to be completely honest with yourself and part of that honesty is to frankly admit that one enjoys the sins and then learning to change one's very nature through Christ to where you no longer enjoy the sin.

I guarantee you as soon as he no longer enjoys the sin-it will go away.

To quit an addiction-or what it really is is a repetitive, repeatable pattern of one particular type of sinful behavior-two things MUST happen.
1) The individual must make the decision to stop and change who they are-i.e. the very nature of who they are.
2) The individual must receive a large enough pyschic blow (i.e. emotional/spiritual/mental) blow that spurs them to do #1
The third option sometimes happens
3) People gradually change over time to where they mature out/grow out/spiritually grow up to where over time what they were once addicted to become less and less a part of who they are.

Um, I take it you have never had a true addiction? Your post is very insensitive. Just stop. Yeah, I'm sure every addict ever has been told that.

Mark 9...

Why could not we cast him out? And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting...

mgridle1 wrote: ↑July 4th, 2018, 10:05 pm
3) People gradually change over time to where they mature out/grow out/spiritually grow up to where over time what they were once addicted to become less and less a part of who they are.

Yes this is true. Being overly attached to the addiction is as bad as the addiction itself. Satan wants us to take ourselves too seriously and the shame of the addiction can become the binding facet of the addiction.

Dusty52 wrote: ↑July 4th, 2018, 7:39 pm I have a friend who has an addiction, he says he can't remember a time when he didn't have it, it controls his life, he has tried to stop many many times but can't, he constantly returns to it, he knows it is wrong, not because of anything the church teaches but because of the way the addiction makes him feel. He is tired of the fight, he doesn't know when the fight will end, he has considered suicide as a way out! he has attended the church's addiction recovery program but it didn't work. He has tried to figure out the root cause of the addiction but he gave up on that, it is deeply engrained into who he is, how he interacts with other people, etc. He attends church, he is married with children, but I know his marriage is rocky, the addiction has made him selfish, his wife knows about his addicttion and has stood by him over the years they've been married, but he had the addiction before that, he has asked me for help, I don't know what to say or where to start? how can I help him finally get over his addiction? I suppose there are no easy answers, he just wants to live his life free from this addiction, walking around with guilt and self loathing

What is the addiction?

I was just talking to someone who told me her husband was addicted to masterbation & explained that he did it weekly. I explained that I didn’t think that was addiction, and I see masterbation as somewhat natural and sometimes necessary for some who have higher sex drives than their spouse. I used to freak out about it as some do, but then I came to realize that my ideas of sex and my own body were too punitive. I’m not suggesting masterbation, but I think we all need to chill out about it. As babies most of us did it in some way. But anything that becomes excessive or interferes with life or relationships needs to be better approached.

A councilor at a marriage retreat also explained that sometimes freaking out about something like masterbation or porn can make it worse. It’s better to admit that it’s a common human lure and pleasurable while understanding that if it became addicting, it could get in the way of being happy.

mgridle1 wrote: ↑July 4th, 2018, 10:05 pm Your friend quite frankly doesn't really want to stop.

I'm reminded of serving a mission and the drunks would come up to us with a handshake and a box of wine in the other. They would complain and say "brother, I want to stop drinking, I don't like being drunk all the time-help me to stop drinking", we would proceed to tell them to hand us the box of wine and we'll pour it out. Oh the wailing, No, No, No don't do that I need my wine-they you really don't want to stop drinking.

To stop an addiction is really easy-you just stop. If it is porn you ditch the internet, if it is alcohol you don't go to the store.

He is weak-willed and weak-minded and for whatever reason he enjoys the sin of the addiction more than repentance. Until he recognizes his awful state and is brought to his knees in repentance, to where the sin of his addiction and the costs of that sin are profoundly make clear to him, he will not quit.

He is tired of the fight b/c he doesn't want to change. The reason why he walks around with guilt and self-loathing is because he knows that he actually enjoys the sin but he knows that he shouldn't enjoy the sin and therefore he hates himself and has guilt b/c he really does like whatever addiction he has.

You can't fight an addiction, "fighting" an addiction is pointless, foolhardy and leads to nowhere.

What you do is you change yourself and the first step in that change is to be completely honest with yourself and part of that honesty is to frankly admit that one enjoys the sins and then learning to change one's very nature through Christ to where you no longer enjoy the sin.

I guarantee you as soon as he no longer enjoys the sin-it will go away.

To quit an addiction-or what it really is is a repetitive, repeatable pattern of one particular type of sinful behavior-two things MUST happen.
1) The individual must make the decision to stop and change who they are-i.e. the very nature of who they are.
2) The individual must receive a large enough pyschic blow (i.e. emotional/spiritual/mental) blow that spurs them to do #1
The third option sometimes happens
3) People gradually change over time to where they mature out/grow out/spiritually grow up to where over time what they were once addicted to become less and less a part of who they are.

The problem is that they cannot do that on their own. The proof of that is that ... they haven't done it on their own.

Thus, they need a program. And the will to accept and follow the program.
dc

The Airbender wrote: ↑July 4th, 2018, 11:12 pm

mgridle1 wrote: ↑July 4th, 2018, 10:05 pm Your friend quite frankly doesn't really want to stop.

...

He is weak-willed and weak-minded and for whatever reason he enjoys the sin of the addiction more than repentance. Until he recognizes his awful state and is brought to his knees in repentance, to where the sin of his addiction and the costs of that sin are profoundly make clear to him, he will not quit.

...

Um, I take it you have never had a true addiction? Your post is very insensitive. Just stop. Yeah, I'm sure every addict ever has been told that.

Whether or not he has ever had a true addiction or not is irrelevant.

He does display some knowledge that he has some idea of the professional and most effective approach to this issue. He just doesn't seem to understand all of it.

Sensitivity and "compassion" come very close to enabling. And the given facts indicate that he already has a full time enabler. The wife.

However, the facts don't indicate what the addiction is, which does make a big difference. What he addiction is, is relevant.
dc

Addictions are the result of believing lies. Your friend needs to identify the lie that is feeding his addiction and replace it with the truth. Every addict will have a different journey to take to resolve the issue. Some benefit from 12 step programs and some don't. Some benefit from miraculous healing and some don't. The journey will look different to everyone but the root course includes discovering truth. "The truth will make you free."

I would suggest telling your friend that he believes some lie about himself and he needs to understand the truth instead. I would assure him that the addiction will resolve on its own once he discovers the truth and so not to worry about controlling it for now, just focus on finding the truth that will free him.

He will need divine help in his pursuit to find it, so he should pray or meditate or whatever he does to connect with God. (If he struggles to connect with God a vocal prayer is fine.) It can be helpful to identify what was going on in his life when the addiction started or to consider the impact that trauma or abuse had on his life as a child and seek understanding through the Spirit about those things. Those are usually the things that have formed the lie.

He does want to stop. All addicts want to stop. It's just that often they can't find the strength until things get really, really bad and they hit some sort of wall. He doesn't need to hit the wall if he knows there is something he can be doing right now to stop the addiction.

Also, addiction is often caused by evil spirits but I wouldn't go casting them out without spiritual preparation. Luke 12 warns that casting out devils can result in them returning with friends if we aren't prepared so make sure any attempts in that direction are spiritually led. He needs to discover the truth first and then the devils will leave of their own accord or the Spirit will lead him to cast them out at the right time.

The guilt and the shame are the bond that keeps the door open to the addiction. Feelings Buried Alive teaches you how to release those things. When we love ourselves completely and properly, these things have no hold on us. This is why the commandment to love ourselves is vitally important. You really can't love others without loving yourself. Every part of yourself. Shine the light of love in those dark spaces and destruction flees.

If this is pornography, completely lock yourself out from access. Ask the wife to lock everything out with passcodes or software/apps. Whatever it takes. Access internet for need basis only. After that, find a hobby. I think reading is the best, but really, just find anything that occupies the mind. Even video games. Eventually you will have to immerse yourself in God’s word by reading the scriptures because you actually want and desire to. Pray for that. Get your family to pray with/for you.

Once you find God again, and He changes your heart, you will find that you really don’t need to be locked out anymore. You just need to be diligent after that, and never believe you’re strong enough when you give into any temptation.

David13 wrote: ↑July 5th, 2018, 8:00 am

mgridle1 wrote: ↑July 4th, 2018, 10:05 pm Your friend quite frankly doesn't really want to stop.

I'm reminded of serving a mission and the drunks would come up to us with a handshake and a box of wine in the other. They would complain and say "brother, I want to stop drinking, I don't like being drunk all the time-help me to stop drinking", we would proceed to tell them to hand us the box of wine and we'll pour it out. Oh the wailing, No, No, No don't do that I need my wine-they you really don't want to stop drinking.

To stop an addiction is really easy-you just stop. If it is porn you ditch the internet, if it is alcohol you don't go to the store.

He is weak-willed and weak-minded and for whatever reason he enjoys the sin of the addiction more than repentance. Until he recognizes his awful state and is brought to his knees in repentance, to where the sin of his addiction and the costs of that sin are profoundly make clear to him, he will not quit.

He is tired of the fight b/c he doesn't want to change. The reason why he walks around with guilt and self-loathing is because he knows that he actually enjoys the sin but he knows that he shouldn't enjoy the sin and therefore he hates himself and has guilt b/c he really does like whatever addiction he has.

You can't fight an addiction, "fighting" an addiction is pointless, foolhardy and leads to nowhere.

What you do is you change yourself and the first step in that change is to be completely honest with yourself and part of that honesty is to frankly admit that one enjoys the sins and then learning to change one's very nature through Christ to where you no longer enjoy the sin.

I guarantee you as soon as he no longer enjoys the sin-it will go away.

To quit an addiction-or what it really is is a repetitive, repeatable pattern of one particular type of sinful behavior-two things MUST happen.
1) The individual must make the decision to stop and change who they are-i.e. the very nature of who they are.
2) The individual must receive a large enough pyschic blow (i.e. emotional/spiritual/mental) blow that spurs them to do #1
The third option sometimes happens
3) People gradually change over time to where they mature out/grow out/spiritually grow up to where over time what they were once addicted to become less and less a part of who they are.

The problem is that they cannot do that on their own. The proof of that is that ... they haven't done it on their own.

Thus, they need a program. And the will to accept and follow the program.
dc

I agree they can't do it on their own-without Christ's atoning blood it is impossible to repent. I agree some people need a 12 step program to help them understand Christ's atoning blood; but it's not the "program" that changes them-it is themselves learning to repent and rely upon Christ.

The Airbender wrote: ↑July 4th, 2018, 11:12 pm

mgridle1 wrote: ↑July 4th, 2018, 10:05 pm Your friend quite frankly doesn't really want to stop.

I'm reminded of serving a mission and the drunks would come up to us with a handshake and a box of wine in the other. They would complain and say "brother, I want to stop drinking, I don't like being drunk all the time-help me to stop drinking", we would proceed to tell them to hand us the box of wine and we'll pour it out. Oh the wailing, No, No, No don't do that I need my wine-they you really don't want to stop drinking.

To stop an addiction is really easy-you just stop. If it is porn you ditch the internet, if it is alcohol you don't go to the store.

He is weak-willed and weak-minded and for whatever reason he enjoys the sin of the addiction more than repentance. Until he recognizes his awful state and is brought to his knees in repentance, to where the sin of his addiction and the costs of that sin are profoundly make clear to him, he will not quit.

He is tired of the fight b/c he doesn't want to change. The reason why he walks around with guilt and self-loathing is because he knows that he actually enjoys the sin but he knows that he shouldn't enjoy the sin and therefore he hates himself and has guilt b/c he really does like whatever addiction he has.

You can't fight an addiction, "fighting" an addiction is pointless, foolhardy and leads to nowhere.

What you do is you change yourself and the first step in that change is to be completely honest with yourself and part of that honesty is to frankly admit that one enjoys the sins and then learning to change one's very nature through Christ to where you no longer enjoy the sin.

I guarantee you as soon as he no longer enjoys the sin-it will go away.

To quit an addiction-or what it really is is a repetitive, repeatable pattern of one particular type of sinful behavior-two things MUST happen.
1) The individual must make the decision to stop and change who they are-i.e. the very nature of who they are.
2) The individual must receive a large enough pyschic blow (i.e. emotional/spiritual/mental) blow that spurs them to do #1
The third option sometimes happens
3) People gradually change over time to where they mature out/grow out/spiritually grow up to where over time what they were once addicted to become less and less a part of who they are.

Um, I take it you have never had a true addiction? Your post is very insensitive. Just stop. Yeah, I'm sure every addict ever has been told that.

"Insensitive" does not make what I said false. In fact, I believe too much "sensitivity" lulls people into a false sense of security.

I will say it again, I am not inexperienced in this area or facet of life.

I can easily say the same about you, "you've never had a true addiction that you've overcome". See that was easy for me to do-but that doesn't make what I said about you true. Just like you know absolutely nothing about me, my struggles, what I've dealt with or overcome through Christ in my life.

I was listening to James 1 this morning some good stuff that I think applies:
12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

When we have lust in our hearts, we end up being tempted. If I lust for the things of this world, when I pass by a store I might be tempted to steal. If I dwell on that thought to steal, then do I start to commit sin.
If I remove the lust of the things of this world in my heart then the temptation is removed.

Change the inner man, change the actual heart from lusting after xyz sin and then the addiction goes away. That is the real key and the real challenge to overcoming addiction, not to stop the physical act, but to change the heart and once the heart is changed then the physical act will stop.