LDS Freedom Forum

If a member of the church gets excommunicated and then repents and goes through the process of getting a reinstatement back into the church are ALL the sins written off? Is that member then given a clean slate, and can begin again, like a new birth?

I've been wrong about other church procedures before, but if I understand correctly--if there were annotations to the individual's membership records before, those annotations are left in place if/when the individual's membership is reinstated.

I thought when you go through the repentance process all sins are forgiven but it doesn't seem that way the church still remembers some sins!!
I wonder which ones they say you cannot gain repentance for?

Dusty52 wrote: ↑July 3rd, 2018, 2:27 pm I thought when you go through the repentance process all sins are forgiven but it doesn't seem that way the church still remembers some sins!!
I wonder which ones they say you cannot gain repentance for?

It's not about repentance, it's about vigilance. If you are excommunicated for child abuse, served your time, etc. do you really want that information unavailable to the Bishop when they repent and come back in?

With all the furor over Bishop at the MTC, you either annotate records or you don't-if you annotate records then people complain about sins "you cannot gain repentance for" and if you don't annotate records then "the Church KNEW AND DIDN'T DO ANYTHING!!"

Dusty52 wrote: ↑July 3rd, 2018, 1:09 pm If a member of the church gets excommunicated and then repents and goes through the process of getting a reinstatement back into the church are ALL the sins written off? Is that member then given a clean slate, and can begin again, like a new birth?

When the individual is re-baptised and all their blessings are restored, the membership record will reflect the original baptism date, confirmation, ordination dates etc. It's as if the excommunication never happened.

That does make sense

Your record should be your record. It's sort of carved in stone.
There will be those in the ward that will remember forever, anyway. And will relate the facts as if they took place yesterday. Some things can just never be "lived down".

I'm not one for 'literature' but wasn't there something about a scarlet letter?
dc

That’s what shows up on the ward level, after blessings restored. But at Church HQ, there is still the record of excommunication and any other annotations - forever. Divorces are also recorded. Without certain exceptions by FP, such a person cannot serve in trusted leadership positions like bishop, SP, MP, TP, etc.

In a recent stake conference with a visiting GA Seventy, he described meeting with someone who had been excommunicated and was seeking rebaptism. He told of the person's humility as he was shown a letter from the president of the church authorizing the interview and as he described that the original baptism date would be on the person's records.

Not to hijack the thread, but since Jesef mentioned that divorces are recorded, what do I need to do when my divorce is finally granted? Just tell the bishop or do something more?

brianj wrote: ↑July 3rd, 2018, 9:29 pm Not to hijack the thread, but since Jesef mentioned that divorces are recorded, what do I need to do when my divorce is finally granted? Just tell the bishop or do something more?

Information about marriage is included in the member record. So, yes, do tell bishop or ward clerk when your divorce is finally granted. Tell them the date, the record keeping software requires a date in order to record divorce.
It's for your own good; that way you avoid any possible awkward questions like "how's your wife?" etc. Maybe your bishop is aware of your situation, but you might get new bishop or stake president who does not know you as well.

Also, there is one practical reason to have the marriage information correct in records. I believe that the attendance percentage of YSA's affects the amount of money the ward gets. So, it's not good to have any incorrect marriages in the records.

inho wrote: ↑July 4th, 2018, 11:37 am

brianj wrote: ↑July 3rd, 2018, 9:29 pm Not to hijack the thread, but since Jesef mentioned that divorces are recorded, what do I need to do when my divorce is finally granted? Just tell the bishop or do something more?

Information about marriage is included in the member record. So, yes, do tell bishop or ward clerk when your divorce is finally granted. Tell them the date, the record keeping software requires a date in order to record divorce.
It's for your own good; that way you avoid any possible awkward questions like "how's your wife?" etc. Maybe your bishop is aware of your situation, but you might get new bishop or stake president who does not know you as well.

Also, there is one practical reason to have the marriage information correct in records. I believe that the attendance percentage of YSA's affects the amount of money the ward gets. So, it's not good to have any incorrect marriages in the records.

I'm way too old for a YSA ward. I chose my current apartment primarily because when I looked at other good restaurants closer to work I didn't find a single adult ward. But the joke's on me, a few months after signing the contract I discovered that I'm a bit too old for a single adult ward.

I don't see how having the record updated will help me avoid awkward conversations. Last Saturday I had been assigned to help clean the church and someone who knows I'm going through a divorce sent me a text stating "your family" is assigned to clean. I could point to many other examples.

I absolutely want my record updated as soon as things are finalized; I just wanted to know if I could give a date or I had to provide paperwork.

Here is something that has crossed my mind from time to time. We do not ask new members for proof of identity when they join. So we don’t look at birth certificates to check the details of birth dates, parents names and so on.

So let’s assume we have an excommunicated member. Perhaps he feels that the excommunication was not justified. If he moves to a new location. He presents himself as a new perspective member, gives his real name but a different date and place of birth and slight variations of his parents names.

As far as I can tell, with a different birthdate there is no method to connect the new membership record to the original.

gkearney wrote: ↑July 4th, 2018, 12:35 pm Here is something that has crossed my mind from time to time. We do not ask new members for proof of identity when they join. So we don’t look at birth certificates to check the details of birth dates, parents names and so on.

So let’s assume we have an excommunicated member. Perhaps he feels that the excommunication was not justified. If he moves to a new location. He presents himself as a new perspective member, gives his real name but a different date and place of birth and slight variations of his parents names.

As far as I can tell, with a different birthdate there is no method to connect the new membership record to the original.

I had thought of that also. I'm sure there are many, or at least some who have done that, for various reasons.

In fact, that recent post about someone who filmed Temple events and posted it, isn't that along the same lines that he does? False identity?

I think some id verification could be used. But isn't the church supposed to accept people "as they are?" I don't know.
dc

gkearney wrote: ↑July 4th, 2018, 12:35 pm Here is something that has crossed my mind from time to time. We do not ask new members for proof of identity when they join. So we don’t look at birth certificates to check the details of birth dates, parents names and so on.

The fact that we dont't check any id while creating records, leads also to many mistakes. Especially if there are many possibilities to write a name with our alphabets. Typos in names and errors in dates makes it really hard to locate people if we lost contact with them for some reason.

If this person were on the forum, I'd tell them to really go deep in the Gospel. Maybe listening to the scriptures way more than others and be praying like their life depended on it.

I don't mean anything bad by that. But if you have a deep physical condition, the answer would be severe medical treatment right? So it seems like if someone takes a big fall spiritually, then the answer would be to go deep opposite in trying to become more committed than anyone else. I think this is the only way for this friend of yours that you are asking on behalf of to be safe. To make it clear I'm not condemning anyone or thinking bad, I'm just thinking...what would it take to be rooted in the Gospel and so strong with roots so deep and strong that you were 'unshakeable in their faith'.

You can find some scriptures like this...in the Book of Mormon it says that Nephi's faith was so strong he raised his brother from the dead. Also there was some places where it says that people were 'unshakable in their faith' like Captain Moroni. And they were deeply and totally committed. It talks about the converted Lamanites this way. It talks about the people of Ammon this way, and Ammon, and Alma, and Helaman I think was this way.

You want to encourage someone like this to try to seek for unshakable faith and commitment. And you know not just them, this is what everyone should be trying to get to. It's not like about wearing your stars and stripes on the surface or a surface only commitment though, but commitment to help the needy, poor, and real gospel principles and following them.

Some great examples are Zeezrom and Lamoni. Both these two became spotless and holy men. But they both initially made some mistakes that some might have thought were serious. They became so committed that they were allowed to be with Jesus.

Hope that helps.