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Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 10:58 am
by The Airbender
How do we reconcile the Savior's command to do our alms in secret with our church's endless announcements of donations?
First, the Lord's command:
"Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly."
And from the front page of LDS.org:
Church Donates to Child Abuse Prevention Organizations
"Women leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints visited the Children’s Justice Center (CJC) in Salt Lake City on Wednesday, June 27, 2018, to deliver a $50,000 donation to help child abuse victims and their families. The money will be used to support Utah Children's Justice Centers around the state. The leaders also announced a $25,000 donation to the A Breeze of Hope Foundation, an organization in Bolivia that serves victims of sexual violence."
Re: Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 11:09 am
by Lizzy60
The Airbender wrote: ↑July 1st, 2018, 10:58 am
How do we reconcile the Savior's command to do our alms in secret with our church's endless announcements of donations?
First, the Lord's command:
"Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly."
And from the front page of LDS.org:
Church Donates to Child Abuse Prevention Organizations
"Women leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints visited the Children’s Justice Center (CJC) in Salt Lake City on Wednesday, June 27, 2018, to deliver a $50,000 donation to help child abuse victims and their families. The money will be used to support Utah Children's Justice Centers around the state. The leaders also announced a $25,000 donation to the A Breeze of Hope Foundation, an organization in Bolivia that serves victims of sexual violence."
It was also announced at Mormon Newsroom, and in the Deseret News. They made sure we heard about it.
Meanwhile, with little publicity, Ivanka Trump gave $50,000 of her own money to a church in TX which is helping immigrant children.
Re: Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 11:18 am
by inho
Church uses a lot money to help people in need. Bishops don't announce who receives help through fast offerings.
I think that the reason Church makes these kinds of announcements is that it is a good way to make a statement. Instead of just telling that the Church supports a cause, it is more effective to support also in monetary way. Then people really know that the Church really supports.
Just like in this
Joseph Smith story:
one young man remembered: “I was at Joseph’s house; he was there, and several men were sitting on the fence. Joseph came out and spoke to us all. Pretty soon a man came up and said that a poor brother who lived out some distance from town had had his house burned down the night before. Nearly all of the men said they felt sorry for the man. Joseph put his hand in his pocket, took out five dollars and said, ‘I feel sorry for this brother to the amount of five dollars; how much do you all feel sorry?’”
Re: Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 11:31 am
by simpleton
The Airbender wrote: ↑July 1st, 2018, 10:58 am
How do we reconcile the Savior's command to do our alms in secret with our church's endless announcements of donations?
First, the Lord's command:
"Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
Therefore when thou doest thine alms,]do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly."
And from the front page of LDS.org:
Church Donates to Child Abuse Prevention Organizations
"Women leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints visited the Children’s Justice Center (CJC) in Salt Lake City on Wednesday, June 27, 2018, to deliver a $50,000 donation to help child abuse victims and their families. The money will be used to support Utah Children's Justice Centers around the state. The leaders also announced a $25,000 donation to the A Breeze of Hope Foundation, an organization in Bolivia that serves victims of sexual violence."
Just as the scripture says .. when it is trumpeted in the newspaper and on television and on the streets or anywhere, therein is the reward. None in heaven...
Re: Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 11:41 am
by Thinker
Jesus didn’t teach tithing, but it had been around. The law of tithing comes primarily from the Old Testament. Deut. 14:28-29 states that tithing collectors are supposed to give 1/3 of TITHES to those in need. If you search lds triple combo index and dictionary under “tithing” that reference is not there. Maybe because it is not obeyed. There may be some giving - but it seems more like tossing pennies at someone who’s sick.
Tithing has also been corrupted from scripture basing it on increase... to basing it on income, which is taking from those who have no increase left to give, thereby exasperating poverty. Tithing is meant to help alleviate poverty, not add to the suffering.
It’s been noted that one of the most grievous sins is to neglect those in need. And so with Jesus teachings - like the parable of the sheep and goats - it seems that caring for those in need is priority to those who are genuine followers of Christ.
Re: Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 11:43 am
by righteousrepublic
The church donates, openly, to all sorts of humanitarian causes. has done for decades.
Individuals, on the other hand, by way of charity may give money on the spur of the moment to a street person, or maybe give away a nice piece of furniture to someone in need and do it quietly and not run around boasting about it.
Re: Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 11:49 am
by David13
What about transparency, tho'? I thought some of you were demanding transparency?
I think this is part of why I think transparency is not necessary or warranted.
dc
Re: Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 11:52 am
by Thinker
Accountability is needed. I imagine if I were one of the many starving and watching their children starve, when so many tithes are hoarded and not distributed as commanded in the Old Testament and in other ways by Jesus.
Probably most of those extremely dirt poor don’t even know of the scripture commanding 1/3 of tithes to go to them and other poor. Yet, I feel obligated to stand up for them anyway.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2009/ ... -1-billion
Re: Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 12:03 pm
by righteousrepublic
BD Almsgiving
Donations for the poor, mentioned frequently in the New Testament (Matt. 6:1–4; Luke 11:41; 12:31–34; Acts 3:3; 10:2; 24:17). Throughout his travels Paul gathered and distributed donations for the needy saints in Jerusalem (Rom. 15:25–27; 1 Cor. 16:1–2; 2 Cor. 8:9; Gal. 2:10). This was an organized and united welfare program of the Church.
Although not mentioned in the Old Testament as alms, the principle is given in many instances; for example, Deut. 24:19. See also Ps. 41:1; 112:9; Prov. 14:21; 19:17; 22:9; 28:27; Acts 9:36; 11:29–30; Philip. 4:18; 1 Tim. 6:18–19.
Matt 5:42
42 Give to him that asketh thee...
So if one gives money to a street corner homeless person, and others see the act, does that indicate being in a mindset of sounding a trumpet? I think not.
There is a difference between giving with pure intent and sounding a trumpet to get gain.
Re: Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 12:20 pm
by simpleton
righteousrepublic wrote: ↑July 1st, 2018, 12:03 pm
BD Almsgiving
Donations for the poor, mentioned frequently in the New Testament (Matt. 6:1–4; Luke 11:41; 12:31–34; Acts 3:3; 10:2; 24:17). Throughout his travels Paul gathered and distributed donations for the needy saints in Jerusalem (Rom. 15:25–27; 1 Cor. 16:1–2; 2 Cor. 8:9; Gal. 2:10). This was an organized and united welfare program of the Church.
Although not mentioned in the Old Testament as alms, the principle is given in many instances; for example, Deut. 24:19. See also Ps. 41:1; 112:9; Prov. 14:21; 19:17; 22:9; 28:27; Acts 9:36; 11:29–30; Philip. 4:18; 1 Tim. 6:18–19.
Matt 5:42
42 Give to him that asketh thee...
So if one gives money to a street corner homeless person, and others see the act, does that indicate being in a mindset of sounding a trumpet? I think not.
yes, you are right...
There is a difference between giving with pure intent and sounding a trumpet to get gain.
Huge difference, like the difference between night and day.
Re: Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 12:23 pm
by Jonesy
David13 wrote: ↑July 1st, 2018, 11:49 am
What about transparency, tho'? I thought some of you were demanding transparency?
I think this is part of why I think transparency is not necessary or warranted.
dc
Good point. I think it is warranted, but transparency needs to come from the actual source. Otherwise it’s not really transparency; it would be more like reporting or whistleblowing.
Re: Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 1:47 pm
by shadow
Thinker wrote: ↑July 1st, 2018, 11:41 am
Jesus didn’t teach tithing...
He did, actually, and he even tells the church in the D&C what tithing is to be used for.
Re: Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 2:09 pm
by Jesef
The Millennial generation isn't putting up with this cult-like crap (information hiding/white-washing) anymore and they are voting with their feet. They are leaving the Church in huge numbers - I'd guess something like 50% from what I see looking around my area - because the Church isn't keeping up with some very reasonable expectations - like historical & doctrinal & financial transparency. When one of these kids gets all the way through the entire Church curriculum - Primary, YM/YW, Seminary, Mission, Institute - and then they get broadsided by a co-worker with Polygamy, Blacks & Priesthood, Financial Opacity, etc. - they feel betrayed by the institution they trusted. Joseph sealed to 31+ women, Brigham sealed to 55 living women, racism (yes, so many racist comments in our history - no excuses if we're teaching we are ONE TRUE and ahead of the curve, enlightened by God, etc.), and all the $B's in commercial investments. There's no defense for not educating the youth on these topics & then they get educated from an "anti" source - a source that claims we are a brainwashing cult and then they present a few of these Facts which the Church decided not to educate them on because it might "damage faith" (PR, positive image). We live in an age of information transparency. These kids know how to Google and Wikipedia and it takes about 5-10 minutes to undermine their trust in Church education. I want to see the Church succeed and evolve. This is HUGE. And it will eventually affect everything, including the bottom line and the missionary work, the tithing, the convert baptisms, temple attendance, EVERYTHING. And it's largely avoidable, I believe - if we just start being TOTALLY HONEST! That's my opinion after seeing several Faith/Religious Crises up close and personal.
Re: Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 2:55 pm
by MMbelieve
simpleton wrote: ↑July 1st, 2018, 11:31 am
The Airbender wrote: ↑July 1st, 2018, 10:58 am
How do we reconcile the Savior's command to do our alms in secret with our church's endless announcements of donations?
First, the Lord's command:
"Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
Therefore when thou doest thine alms,]do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly."
And from the front page of LDS.org:
Church Donates to Child Abuse Prevention Organizations
"Women leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints visited the Children’s Justice Center (CJC) in Salt Lake City on Wednesday, June 27, 2018, to deliver a $50,000 donation to help child abuse victims and their families. The money will be used to support Utah Children's Justice Centers around the state. The leaders also announced a $25,000 donation to the A Breeze of Hope Foundation, an organization in Bolivia that serves victims of sexual violence."
Just as the scripture says .. when it is trumpeted in the newspaper and on television and on the streets or anywhere, therein is the reward. None in heaven...
Maybe the church as an Organization is not expecting to get a reward in heaven. How do you reward an earthy organization in heaven, it's not a person or a soul.
Re: Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 4:30 pm
by SmallFarm
What is the purpose in the Lord telling us that we shouldn't "do our alms before men"? Does that purpose also apply to the Lord and what He does with His church?
Re: Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 5:07 pm
by Jesef
Financial transparency, of a collective institution, is different. Transparency & sunlight will clean up the books, and give the members true accountability for how the funds are spent by the Servants. Are the servants accountable to the members, in any way, for the discharge of their duties? Yes, they are - they require our sustaining votes. And that - the sustaining vote - has really turned into a formality. All opposition is squashed as disloyalty. Another reason we are (rightly, in that sense) perceived as a cult - the leadership cannot be opposed or questioned (without disciplinary action following). This is a form of coercion, because fear and penalty are employed, rather than persuasion and tolerance. People who oppose, for valid reasons, are instantly tagged and targeted as Apostates. I wish we could shift the culture to be able to tolerate more voices and opinions and still persist as one body. Financial transparency is a good thing, in the long run. The Millennials aren't tolerating this very well - they expect open-communication, honesty, not cover-ups and basically totalitarianism.
Re: Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 5:08 pm
by David13
Jesef wrote: ↑July 1st, 2018, 2:09 pm
The Millennial generation isn't putting up with this cult-like crap (information hiding/white-washing) anymore and they are voting with their feet. They are leaving the Church in huge numbers - I'd guess something like 50% from what I see looking around my area - because the Church isn't keeping up with some very reasonable expectations - like historical & doctrinal & financial transparency. When one of these kids gets all the way through the entire Church curriculum - Primary, YM/YW, Seminary, Mission, Institute - and then they get broadsided by a co-worker with Polygamy, Blacks & Priesthood, Financial Opacity, etc. - they feel betrayed by the institution they trusted. Joseph sealed to 31+ women, Brigham sealed to 55 living women, racism (yes, so many racist comments in our history - no excuses if we're teaching we are ONE TRUE and ahead of the curve, enlightened by God, etc.), and all the $B's in commercial investments. There's no defense for not educating the youth on these topics & then they get educated from an "anti" source - a source that claims we are a brainwashing cult and then they present a few of these Facts which the Church decided not to educate them on because it might "damage faith" (PR, positive image). We live in an age of information transparency. These kids know how to Google and Wikipedia and it takes about 5-10 minutes to undermine their trust in Church education. I want to see the Church succeed and evolve. This is HUGE. And it will eventually affect everything, including the bottom line and the missionary work, the tithing, the convert baptisms, temple attendance, EVERYTHING. And it's largely avoidable, I believe - if we just start being TOTALLY HONEST! That's my opinion after seeing several Faith/Religious Crises up close and personal.
I really do not believe at all that that is why young people are leaving the church. I think they are being led astray by a secular society with a greater and greater anti church, anti anything good morality. And it's trendy, enticing, the thing to do to follow that society, to be like everyone else, to "fit in" and not be an old Mormon "square" with all that preachy stuff like your parents had, man.
dc
Re: Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 5:21 pm
by Jesef
DC, I think you're partially right there. But a big part of it is legitimacy. There are so many non-plus, obviously backwards, obviously denying & opaque issues - historical, doctrinal, and now financial - that it is TOO EASY for them to invalidate the whole thing. "Well, the Church was obviously wrong about [all these things], therefore it's truth-claims are invalid - end result = it ain't what it claims it is - so I'm leaving." I've seen this occur in youth and adults - whose questions get deflected or twisted back onto them - people who continue to live the standards and aren't "hiding sins" - again, read Pres. Uchtdorf's talk. A lot of good kids & young adults & adults (who care) but don't feel like they can be intellectually honest and continue as members of what they perceive to be a corrupt, cult-like institution that just worships authority and justifies everything in its history is GOOD/TRUE no matter how crazy or abominable. It just ain't flying anymore. And if you don't believe that, look at the convert baptism rate - it doesn't take 15 minutes to sabotage an investigator with information the missionaries will never share. I've seen more converts lose interest than I can count - all because of true but ugly facts. It's a problem and we can't just hide out heads in the sand or play it off as "the adversary" - we are not inoculating or teaching everything our young people need to know or that new/potential members need to know in order to survive.
Re: Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 5:33 pm
by David13
Jesef wrote: ↑July 1st, 2018, 5:21 pm
DC, I think you're partially right there. But a big part of it is legitimacy. There are so many non-plus, obviously backwards, obviously denying & opaque issues - historical, doctrinal, and now financial - that it is TOO EASY for them to invalidate the whole thing. "Well, the Church was obviously wrong about [all these things], therefore it's truth-claims are invalid - end result = it ain't what it claims it is - so I'm leaving." I've seen this occur in youth and adults - whose questions get deflected or twisted back onto them - people who continue to live the standards and aren't "hiding sins" - again, read Pres. Uchtdorf's talk. A lot of good kids & young adults & adults (who care) but don't feel like they can be intellectually honest and continue as members of what they perceive to be a corrupt, cult-like institution that just worships authority and justifies everything in its history is GOOD/TRUE no matter how crazy or abominable. It just ain't flying anymore. And if you don't believe that, look at the convert baptism rate - it doesn't take 15 minutes to sabotage an investigator with information the missionaries will never share. I've seen more converts lose interest than I can count - all because of true but ugly facts. It's a problem and we can't just hide out heads in the sand or play it off as "the adversary" - we are not inoculating or teaching everything our young people need to know or that new/potential members need to know in order to survive.
I'm a convert, recent, of only 3 years, and yet I have sought out and read or otherwise been exposed to all that stuff, but yet, here I am. Why? I'd call it core values. Certain core values that the church has/has held since the beginning.
I think the major reason why both the young and old fall away is because ... they want to. It's free will, free choice, agency.
I know that even amongst reputable, continuing members, they all talk about how, on Sunday watching tv is such an attraction, distraction, etc. So called "sports".
And I see others with the usual personality conflicts that lead to inactivity. Or other mental problems.
These issues, facts, etc., are in no way essential to our salvation, and any of them can concentrate on that, on the core of the gospel, without regard to the "history" etc. If they want to.
dc
Re: Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 5:46 pm
by Jesef
Hey, I'm not saying every youth or adult or convert is getting derailed. Every person is different. There is a significant segment that isn't leaving because they just "wanna go sin" - they're leaving because of un-answered or inadequately-answered or, in some cases, falsely answered Questions, Historical crap (can't think of a better word - polygamy, etc.), and continued lack of transparency in finances and other matters - things like City Creek - where a public statement is made, but it turns out to be "spin" - and the finances are hiding behind 501c3. These are good people who see the Church violating its own stated values - for instance, stating that one of our core values is honesty - and then dishonestly representing the history - like the manuals portraying Joseph & Brigham as monogamous - but the truth being 31+ & 55 wives, respectively. And it's a quick Wikipedia read to learn this. They literally feel betrayed. I've seen it firsthand and know several people, of various ages, firsthand - so this isn't hypothesis for me. The more I look, the more I find - so my extrapolation makes some sense. Also, I think its a horrible approach for our day and time. Transparency is going to give our message a much better chance, just like immunization & inoculation does for all kinds of diseases. Sheltering no longer works. Persuasion matters, teaching matters. It's not just agency - it's influence and how the message & choices are presented that matters, too. I believe. I've seen it work and help change minds - being open & honest works better than hiding and covering up - period.
Re: Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 6:30 pm
by Thinker
shadow wrote: ↑July 1st, 2018, 1:47 pm
Thinker wrote: ↑July 1st, 2018, 11:41 am
Jesus didn’t teach tithing...
He did, actually, and he even tells the church in the D&C what tithing is to be used for.
Joseph Smith wrote D&C. Sometimes he was prophetically inspired and sometimes obviously not. Ie: Preaching for slavery (D&C 134:12) and God supposedly demanding wife to perform or ELSE (D&C 132:54,56,64) were Joseph talking, not God nor Christ.
Again, Christ’s quotes during his life in the NT repeatedly teach that as Christians, our highest priorities should involve helping those in need. So any preaching about using Jesus Christ’s name to build up a corporate empire and denying tithes to the poor, are using Christ’s name in vain and is contrary to what Christ taught.
Re: Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 7:12 pm
by diligently seeking
Jesef wrote: ↑July 1st, 2018, 5:21 pm
DC, I think you're partially right there. But a big part of it is legitimacy. There are so many non-plus, obviously backwards, obviously denying & opaque issues - historical, doctrinal, and now financial - that it is TOO EASY for them to invalidate the whole thing. "Well, the Church was obviously wrong about [all these things], therefore it's truth-claims are invalid - end result = it ain't what it claims it is - so I'm leaving." I've seen this occur in youth and adults - whose questions get deflected or twisted back onto them - people who continue to live the standards and aren't "hiding sins" - again, read Pres. Uchtdorf's talk. A lot of good kids & young adults & adults (who care) but don't feel like they can be intellectually honest and continue as members of what they perceive to be a corrupt, cult-like institution that just worships authority and justifies everything in its history is GOOD/TRUE no matter how crazy or abominable. It just ain't flying anymore. And if you don't believe that, look at the convert baptism rate - it doesn't take 15 minutes to sabotage an investigator with information the missionaries will never share. I've seen more converts lose interest than I can count - all because of true but ugly facts. It's a problem and we can't just hide out heads in the sand or play it off as "the adversary" - we are not inoculating or teaching everything our young people need to know or that new/potential members need to know in order to survive.
In my next to last area (1995) in the mission field, a well to do member showed us this crazy thing that was made available to the public called the internet. I served during a time where we taught a black family and never once, to my memory, did the priesthood issue get discussed. This was good because any type of answer we could have given them would have been unofficial hodgepodge cut and paste from this authority or that authority or our own speculation as to the WHY of the priesthood ban.
I can't remember how many times we handled the polygamy issue by stating that the woman to man ratio going across the plains was disproportionate and the men needed to take care of the women--- hence the small % of men who had plural wives for a short time. I remember being beyond excited about the 60 minute interview that our whole mission got together at a stake center to watch President Hinckley being interviewed for a full hour by Mike Wallace. We had been told this was unprecedented--- that authorities never gave interviews... so naturally I personally / all of us were excited about the question of all questions that was going to be asked president Hinckley. You see leading up to this interview we all taught with the most profound confidence that our Prophet's from Joseph Smith to present Hinckley all were first hand witnesses of Jesus, and that they had a personal audience with Christ when info needed to be revealed to the church like moses and peter James and John and this is one of the powerful key special roles of these men... Well I was crest fallen forsure by his answers. I served during a time where transparency did not have to happen. I served during a time where you learned the answers to the tough questions from your companions and what they gleaned from other missionaries. Seriously, I experienced minimal push back from inconsistencies in our church history etc during my 2 years in Kentucky. That said, the resources from the restoration that can lead an individual to Christ are profound and beautiful! I had angels appear to investigators and investigators have visions and other profound spiritual happenings that were pretty dang neat for my young missionary self. None more significant than my own conversion to Christ. Zion is on the very near and soon horizon folks. This will be a time where all men shall say they KNOW the Lord and the manifestations of above reproach TRUTH will be consistent and ever present. Keep your eye on the prize.
Re: Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 7:39 pm
by captainfearnot
Thinker wrote: ↑July 1st, 2018, 6:30 pm
Joseph Smith wrote D&C. Sometimes he was prophetically inspired and sometimes obviously not. Ie: Preaching for slavery (D&C 134:12) and God supposedly demanding wife to perform or ELSE (D&C 132:54,56,64) were Joseph talking, not God nor Christ.
Again, Christ’s quotes during his life in the NT repeatedly teach that as Christians, our highest priorities should involve helping those in need. So any preaching about using Jesus Christ’s name to build up a corporate empire and denying tithes to the poor, are using Christ’s name in vain and is contrary to what Christ taught.
How do you know which teachings of the New Testament were just Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, or Paul talking, and not Christ?
Both books are written by men giving accounts of what they saw and heard regarding the Savior. Jesus himself did not write either one.
Re: Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 7:43 pm
by Thinker
captainfearnot wrote: ↑July 1st, 2018, 7:39 pm
Thinker wrote: ↑July 1st, 2018, 6:30 pm
Joseph Smith wrote D&C. Sometimes he was prophetically inspired and sometimes obviously not. Ie: Preaching for slavery (D&C 134:12) and God supposedly demanding wife to perform or ELSE (D&C 132:54,56,64) were Joseph talking, not God nor Christ.
Again, Christ’s quotes during his life in the NT repeatedly teach that as Christians, our highest priorities should involve helping those in need. So any preaching about using Jesus Christ’s name to build up a corporate empire and denying tithes to the poor, are using Christ’s name in vain and is contrary to what Christ taught.
How do you know which teachings of the New Testament were just Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, or Paul talking, and not Christ?
Both books are written by men giving accounts of what they saw and heard regarding the Savior. Jesus himself did not write either one.
That’s right!
And if you look at the history of biblical canon and even lds scripture- you see how it’s been changed. And it’s good to keep in mind nobody’s perfect - not even scripture authors.
So, what I try to do is become as Christlike as I can by exploring “the kingdom of God within” - studying, thinking and praying to see clearly what is of God and what is not. I’m not trying to reinvent the wheel - I learn from others - but I also use the brain God gave me along with the spirit.
Re: Let Not Thy Right Hand Know
Posted: July 1st, 2018, 8:26 pm
by righteousrepublic
Thinker wrote: ↑July 1st, 2018, 6:30 pm
shadow wrote: ↑July 1st, 2018, 1:47 pm
Thinker wrote: ↑July 1st, 2018, 11:41 am
Jesus didn’t teach tithing...
He did, actually, and he even tells the church in the D&C what tithing is to be used for.
Joseph Smith wrote D&C. Sometimes he was prophetically inspired and sometimes obviously not. Ie: Preaching for slavery (D&C 134:12) and God supposedly demanding wife to perform or ELSE (D&C 132:54,56,64) were Joseph talking, not God nor Christ.
Again, Christ’s quotes during his life in the NT repeatedly teach that as Christians, our highest priorities should involve helping those in need. So any preaching about using Jesus Christ’s name to build up a corporate empire and denying tithes to the poor, are using Christ’s name in vain and is contrary to what Christ taught.
If I understand correctly, you're not even a member...so why is it such a concern for you? Walk a mile is people's shoes before making judgements on things you don't actually experience.
This church is Christ's church, he even states so. If there are things that don't meet your approval, join the church and then weigh all things out. This is what I hear David13 did. I applaud him.
This church still has all the saving ordinances needed to gain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God. And members can have hope for a better by adhering to God's laws and not paying attention to the gripes of other people that have no clue of what its like to have such a hope.
Please read the following and ponder it.
ETHER 12:4
4 Wherefore, whoso believeth in God might with surety hope for a better world, yea, even a place at the right hand of God, which hope cometh of faith, maketh an anchor to the souls of men, which would make them sure and steadfast, always abounding in good works, being led to glorify God.
So how do we gain hope?
How does hope become an anchor to our soul?
How does hope, as an anchor, keep us on the path, being sure and steadfast?
What is faith?
What is hope?
How does hope and faith, together, effect the lives of those truly seeking eternal life?