LDS Freedom Forum

Elizabeth wrote: ↑June 27th, 2018, 2:21 pm I do not identify as Mormon.
I identify as LDS, Latter-day Saint, Christian, or a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Elizabeth wrote: ↑June 27th, 2018, 2:21 pm I do not identify as Mormon.
I identify as LDS, Latter-day Saint, Christian, or a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Durzan wrote: ↑June 27th, 2018, 3:40 pm Can you put in an "other" option? None of the current options accurately describe my views. If I HAD to choose between the options presented currently, I'd say my view aligns closer with Option B.

I would consider myself a Reformationist Mormon.

I am a Member of the LDS Church, I believe the church and leaders have the keys of the priesthood, and are authorized by the Lord to direct the church. I believe that the Leaders of the Church are often inspired of God, but are fallible in nature, and as such can make mistakes big or small. I believe that the Lord allows the leaders of the Church to rely on their own judgement at least to some reasonable extent, and that not all church policies are necessarily guided by the Spirit or inspired (that doesn't mean they are not though).

I believe that the Church is currently under condemnation, and that as part of that condemnation, major divine revelation and miracles have largely been reduced to a trickle within the Church and are being withheld by the Lord. I believe that such condemnation is largely due to pride, stubbornness, corruption, and unrighteousness among the general membership; that the saints of the church, as a people, are not currently seeking to faithfully uphold their covenants, but instead have their hearts set upon the things of this world. Because of this unrighteousness, the Lord has commanded his servants to withhold the records of any revelation containing additional laws, mysteries, principles, and so forth, until such a time when the general membership fully repent and seek to faithfully uphold their covenants.

I believe that we, as a people, are not necessarily moving in "...all the right directions as directed by Christ," as Lunbaek put it. I believe that the Priesthood and the teachings of the Gospel were promised to remain upon the earth, but not necessarily the Church itself insofar as it is an official and highly organized religious institution. I belief that statements that would indicate otherwise are the personal opinions of the individual, and not actual doctrine, though such is often construed as such. I believe that a full Apostasy within the church is possible (but not necessarily probable), and that the Lord has established mechanisms to preserve the Priesthood and the teachings of the Gospel should this happen, or should all 15 Apostles and Prophets meet a sudden and untimely end without being able to appoint and ordain successors. Nevertheless, I believe that the Lord will fight tooth and nail to preserve the church, would go to just about any lengths to preserve it, and would only activate the emergency mechanisms He established as an absolute last resort to preserve both the priesthood and the gospel.

I believe there is some level and form of corporate corruption and secret combinations imbedded within the bowls of the church bureaucracy, but that the most members of the Seventy, the Presiding Bishopric, the Apostles, and First Presidency remain mostly innocent of it. I believe that it is possible (however unlikely), for an apostle or prophet to become corrupted, and for such corruption to potentially cause grave damage to the church and its members. Nevertheless, it is my impression that the current Apostles and Prophets now established as leaders of the church are largely good, honorable and inspired men who are in tune with the spirit. However, I believe that the strong spiritual connection the General Authorities have with God has for the most part waned in strength since the days of Joseph Smith, due to the church being under condemnation, as well as the rising level of corruption within church bureaucracy.

I believe that some doctrines may have been changed, altered, or suppressed by church leadership in times past and may need to be reexamined and/or restored on a case by case basis. Yet this should be done by and through inspiration of the Spirit, and approved by proper priesthood authority. This is why I consider myself a Reformationist Mormon.

I believe that God ultimately has control over how everything plays out, at least up to the extent that doesn't directly interfere with Mankind's agency. I believe that scriptures and the prophecies contained within have multiple interpretations, references, meanings, and layers to them; that said scriptures may not have originally intended to have the context we currently associate with them, either officially or unofficially; and that as such, the Lord could mean something entirely different from that which we teach. Nevertheless, the official interpretation(s) of religious literature still has much value, insofar as they are inspired and confirmed by the spirit.

Jonesy wrote: ↑June 27th, 2018, 4:44 pm If you believe that the 15 are actual prophets of God (or at least Pres. Nelson), then I would put ‘A’. Otherwise, I would just choose ‘B’. I think everyone can say they have varied beliefs, but can nail it down to either options.

Jonesy wrote: ↑June 27th, 2018, 4:44 pm

Durzan wrote: ↑June 27th, 2018, 3:40 pm Can you put in an "other" option? None of the current options accurately describe my views. If I HAD to choose between the options presented currently, I'd say my view aligns closer with Option B.

I would consider myself a Reformationist Mormon.

I am a Member of the LDS Church, I believe the church and leaders have the keys of the priesthood, and are authorized by the Lord to direct the church. I believe that the Leaders of the Church are often inspired of God, but are fallible in nature, and as such can make mistakes big or small. I believe that the Lord allows the leaders of the Church to rely on their own judgement at least to some reasonable extent, and that not all church policies are necessarily guided by the Spirit or inspired (that doesn't mean they are not though).

I believe that the Church is currently under condemnation, and that as part of that condemnation, major divine revelation and miracles have largely been reduced to a trickle within the Church and are being withheld by the Lord. I believe that such condemnation is largely due to pride, stubbornness, corruption, and unrighteousness among the general membership; that the saints of the church, as a people, are not currently seeking to faithfully uphold their covenants, but instead have their hearts set upon the things of this world. Because of this unrighteousness, the Lord has commanded his servants to withhold the records of any revelation containing additional laws, mysteries, principles, and so forth, until such a time when the general membership fully repent and seek to faithfully uphold their covenants.

I believe that we, as a people, are not necessarily moving in "...all the right directions as directed by Christ," as Lunbaek put it. I believe that the Priesthood and the teachings of the Gospel were promised to remain upon the earth, but not necessarily the Church itself insofar as it is an official and highly organized religious institution. I belief that statements that would indicate otherwise are the personal opinions of the individual, and not actual doctrine, though such is often construed as such. I believe that a full Apostasy within the church is possible (but not necessarily probable), and that the Lord has established mechanisms to preserve the Priesthood and the teachings of the Gospel should this happen, or should all 15 Apostles and Prophets meet a sudden and untimely end without being able to appoint and ordain successors. Nevertheless, I believe that the Lord will fight tooth and nail to preserve the church, would go to just about any lengths to preserve it, and would only activate the emergency mechanisms He established as an absolute last resort to preserve both the priesthood and the gospel.

I believe there is some level and form of corporate corruption and secret combinations imbedded within the bowls of the church bureaucracy, but that the most members of the Seventy, the Presiding Bishopric, the Apostles, and First Presidency remain mostly innocent of it. I believe that it is possible (however unlikely), for an apostle or prophet to become corrupted, and for such corruption to potentially cause grave damage to the church and its members. Nevertheless, it is my impression that the current Apostles and Prophets now established as leaders of the church are largely good, honorable and inspired men who are in tune with the spirit. However, I believe that the strong spiritual connection the General Authorities have with God has for the most part waned in strength since the days of Joseph Smith, due to the church being under condemnation, as well as the rising level of corruption within church bureaucracy.

I believe that some doctrines may have been changed, altered, or suppressed by church leadership in times past and may need to be reexamined and/or restored on a case by case basis. Yet this should be done by and through inspiration of the Spirit, and approved by proper priesthood authority. This is why I consider myself a Reformationist Mormon.

I believe that God ultimately has control over how everything plays out, at least up to the extent that doesn't directly interfere with Mankind's agency. I believe that scriptures and the prophecies contained within have multiple interpretations, references, meanings, and layers to them; that said scriptures may not have originally intended to have the context we currently associate with them, either officially or unofficially; and that as such, the Lord could mean something entirely different from that which we teach. Nevertheless, the official interpretation(s) of religious literature still has much value, insofar as they are inspired and confirmed by the spirit.

A Reformationist Mormon? Never heard of it. Did you make this up? Did you mean restorationist (I guess all Mormons are)? Or do you mean Reformationist, as in you advocate reform in the LDS Church?

If you believe that the 15 are actual prophets of God (or at least Pres. Nelson), then I would put ‘A’. Otherwise, I would just choose ‘B’. I think everyone can say they have varied beliefs, but can nail it down to either options.

Finrock wrote: ↑June 27th, 2018, 4:56 pm

Jonesy wrote: ↑June 27th, 2018, 4:44 pm If you believe that the 15 are actual prophets of God (or at least Pres. Nelson), then I would put ‘A’. Otherwise, I would just choose ‘B’. I think everyone can say they have varied beliefs, but can nail it down to either options.

No, they can't be nailed down to either A or B. Your options are not representative. That is why you are being asked to include "Other". Also, your poll seems biased. Option A is not solely (or even reliably) indicative of a TBM. If you truly want to get a pulse of the forum, your poll needs to be representative of your target audience or group (in this case LDSFF participants).

-Finrock

Durzan wrote: ↑June 27th, 2018, 5:25 pm Reformationist as in advocating reform within the Church... just like you had the Catholic Reformation as a counterpoint to the Protestant split.

Jonesy wrote: ↑June 27th, 2018, 5:35 pm

Durzan wrote: ↑June 27th, 2018, 5:25 pm Reformationist as in advocating reform within the Church... just like you had the Catholic Reformation as a counterpoint to the Protestant split.

Gotcha. Then I think you fall in to ‘B’. My reason is that if you believed that the leaders were actually prophets (‘A’), then a reform wouldn’t be needed because they are being guided how it should be guided. With option B, You may believe it is still guided by inspiration and/or you may believe reform is needed or will come.

However, do you have a reasonable breakdown for another option?

Jesef wrote: ↑June 27th, 2018, 5:51 pm Yeah, I think the poll was obviously written by someone in the (A) category, because it is very myopic on the issues. You keep mentioning "keys" and "apostasy" as your defining criteria. It's written from a very Utah-homogenous-ultra-orthodox perspective. There's way more categories of members.

How about a category that's more along the lines of putting Mormonism/LDS-ism into a universal context (all human beings & all human history), a heterodox category, such as: believe in living all the standards, believe many of the truths, but believe many things may not ultimately mean what we think they mean, i.e. there are many possibilities and not everything has been revealed.

Or do you just want people to weigh in on: Follow the Prophets, They have the only True Priesthood Keys (Only True & Living Church), and we are NOT in Apostasy (we have not gone astray and have not lost Divine Favor or Authorization)?

LukeAir2008 wrote: ↑June 27th, 2018, 4:24 pm

Elizabeth wrote: ↑June 27th, 2018, 2:21 pm I do not identify as Mormon.
I identify as LDS, Latter-day Saint, Christian, or a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Good point. ‘Mormon’ describes any group, church or movement that traces their origins back to Joseph Smith.

And there are many.