LDS Freedom Forum

Jesef wrote: ↑June 28th, 2018, 9:29 pm IA, you're a passionate and fanatical scripture-quoter. Do they mean what you're saying they mean? Very possibly not. You're trying to prove a point - that we (as a Church, as a people) are in apostasy, rejected & condemned by God, etc., etc. - you're working backwards from your conclusion and quoting a bunch of dead guys to prove your point. And you obviously feel strongly and right enough to get online and preach about it. Good on ya mate! I think you're whacky and wrong. If we're in "apostasy" - which seems to mean whatever people want it to mean but I'm going to define it as "out of favor with God" - then God, in all fairness, if the scriptural pattern is true (which it may not be), would send us a VERY POWERFUL messenger with a VERY POWERFUL message, and signs following, to validate/confirm such message and messenger - I don't know, like MOSES, or JESUS. You and Denver don't fit any of those criteria so you can be safely and summarily dismissed. Btw, be good & have goodwill, be harmless, be peaceful & peacemaking, be loving, be kind, be gentle, be merciful - and you will receive likewise - that's Karma - that's the Law of God and the Universe.

drtanner wrote: ↑June 28th, 2018, 12:04 am This is an interesting poll. If it is really reflective of the forum it would seem the vast majority here are supportive and sustain the leadership. (and who knows, maybe as everyone casts their vote the #'s will change)The reason I find it interesting (for now anyway) is that it seems that many of the sentiments of those who post more frequently on the forum over and over and who quickly combat anything supportive of modern prophets or the church are those in category C. What does this mean? Is the forum made up of a silent majority? Do those who oppose just have more time on there hands or are driven by something? Have those who disagree just not cast there vote? Thoughts?

Jesef wrote: ↑June 28th, 2018, 10:57 pm Visions aren’t a SURE Knowledge, and they aren’t handling AND seeing, they aren’t D&C 129.

Jesef wrote: ↑June 29th, 2018, 10:18 am That's so funny, because they are dead guys - you take offense to that? And besides, God wasn't speaking to us/our-generation when He supposedly/reportedly said those words you're quoting, and THEY also weren't speaking to our generation when D&C 84 was received. Here's your basic problem: you read the scriptures from 100's or even 1000's of years ago & you assume they are speaking directly to you/us. Why do all the sections of the D&C, revealed in the 1800's, apply to us, born today - and why would their failures and curses be ours, either? Are we the same "people", the same audience? I don't think so. That's nonsensical and unfair. Does God send "messengers" or books to save people? This system doesn't seem to be very effective - and I (FIRMLY) believe in a very effective, competent, reasonable, intelligent, powerful, and GOOD GOD.

IA, you're drinking some self-righteous kool-aide, buddy - and you're preachy & wordy - and you obviously think you're on some kind of "mission" to call everybody else, who's "blind", to repentance. You are free to carry on with your fanatical spiritual inferiority-superiority (elitism) paradigm and message, though - have at it. Thanks for cutting down the word-count, though, I really do appreciate it.

And, btw, I have poured over ALL the scriptures DOZENS of times. I used to be a fanatic just like you. I woke up. Most of the scriptures are irrelevant & useless - I think I could boil it down to 1 book, maybe just a few pages, of how to live right and treat others. 2500 pages, most of it is just tedious. But enjoy your parallelomania.

Jesef wrote: ↑June 29th, 2018, 10:18 am That's so funny, because they are dead guys - you take offense to that? And besides, God wasn't speaking to us/our-generation when He supposedly/reportedly said those words you're quoting, and THEY also weren't speaking to our generation when D&C 84 was received. Here's your basic problem: you read the scriptures from 100's or even 1000's of years ago & you assume they are speaking directly to you/us. Why do all the sections of the D&C, revealed in the 1800's, apply to us, born today - and why would their failures and curses be ours, either? Are we the same "people", the same audience? I don't think so. That's nonsensical and unfair. Does God send "messengers" or books to save people? This system doesn't seem to be very effective - and I (FIRMLY) believe in a very effective, competent, reasonable, intelligent, powerful, and GOOD GOD.

IA, you're drinking some self-righteous kool-aide, buddy - and you're preachy & wordy - and you obviously think you're on some kind of "mission" to call everybody else, who's "blind", to repentance. You are free to carry on with your fanatical spiritual inferiority-superiority (elitism) paradigm and message, though - have at it. Thanks for cutting down the word-count, though, I really do appreciate it.

And, btw, I have poured over ALL the scriptures DOZENS of times. I used to be a fanatic just like you. I woke up. Most of the scriptures are irrelevant & useless - I think I could boil it down to 1 book, maybe just a few pages, of how to live right and treat others. 2500 pages, most of it is just tedious. But enjoy your parallelomania.

Jesef wrote: ↑June 29th, 2018, 10:18 am That's so funny, because they are dead guys - you take offense to that? And besides, God wasn't speaking to us/our-generation when He supposedly/reportedly said those words you're quoting, and THEY also weren't speaking to our generation when D&C 84 was received. Here's your basic problem: you read the scriptures from 100's or even 1000's of years ago & you assume they are speaking directly to you/us. Why do all the sections of the D&C, revealed in the 1800's, apply to us, born today - and why would their failures and curses be ours, either? Are we the same "people", the same audience? I don't think so. That's nonsensical and unfair. Does God send "messengers" or books to save people? This system doesn't seem to be very effective - and I (FIRMLY) believe in a very effective, competent, reasonable, intelligent, powerful, and GOOD GOD.

IA, you're drinking some self-righteous kool-aide, buddy - and you're preachy & wordy - and you obviously think you're on some kind of "mission" to call everybody else, who's "blind", to repentance. You are free to carry on with your fanatical spiritual inferiority-superiority (elitism) paradigm and message, though - have at it. Thanks for cutting down the word-count, though, I really do appreciate it.

And, btw, I have poured over ALL the scriptures DOZENS of times. I used to be a fanatic just like you. I woke up. Most of the scriptures are irrelevant & useless - I think I could boil it down to 1 book, maybe just a few pages, of how to live right and treat others. 2500 pages, most of it is just tedious. But enjoy your parallelomania.

Former Mormon stake president sentenced for online sex soliciting

BOISE, Idaho (AP) — A former Mormon stake president from Dillon was sentenced to three years and five months in prison for soliciting someone he believed to be a teenage girl for sex on the Internet and then traveling to Boise to meet her.

U.S. District Judge Edward J. Lodge sentenced Clayton R. Hildreth, 52, on Tuesday.

Hildreth pleaded guilty in October to a charge of interstate travel with intent to have sex with a minor.

Lodge also ordered Hildreth to serve seven years of supervised release after he leaves prison. Lodge said he hopes the aftermath of Hildreth's "dark side" will stop others from committing similar crimes.

During the sentencing hearing, prosecuting attorney Jim Peters reminded the court that Hildreth "portrayed himself as a community leader, a father figure of his church who stood before congregations and preached about living a virtuous life. At the same time, he pursued the thrill of sexual gratification at the expense of a child, without regard for the effect that might have on the child or the people in his community who looked to him for leadership.'' Hildreth's wife, Christine, two sons, father and a longtime friend urged the judge to be lenient with his sentence, saying what he did was out of character, according to an article in The Idaho Statesman newspaper.

People cried as they spoke and tearfully hung their heads as they listened to the court proceedings. Hildreth's wife said there were signs something was wrong with her husband, but no one knew what troubled him.

"I never thought in the 30 years I've lived with this man he would have done what he did," she said.

Hildreth told Lodge that he gets sick when he reads what he wrote during his Internet chats with who he believed was a 14-year-old girl. He cried and often struggled to speak about what he called "a nightmare that won't go away," according to the Statesman article.

Hildreth was excommunicated from his church after his arrest. He was the stake president of the Butte chapter of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints at the time of his arrest.

"I want you to know I have no compulsions to go back to the way I was before," Hildreth said. "I'm afraid of it." Prosecutors said in May 2004, Hildreth, using the screen name "Sexy Montana Gentleman,'' started an Internet relationship with an undercover Boise police officer posing as a 14-year-old girl. Hildreth moved the conversations from a public chat room to private instant messaging and initiated discussions of sex.

During more than a dozen instant messaging sessions over the next six weeks, Hildreth talked about his previous encounters with young girls. He told the victim he was 39 years old and made arrangements to meet the victim. On two occasions he sent her live, sexually explicit images of himself.

On June 23, Hildreth drove to Boise and appeared at what he believed was the girl's stepmother's home, at a time of day when he believed the stepmother would be at work. Prosecutors said he was carrying three condoms, a gift of thong underwear and a digital camera.

He was arrested by Boise police.

Jesef wrote: ↑June 29th, 2018, 1:09 pm Helpless & hopeless, huh? Not really, not even close. How do you know that? Because I'm challenging your self-righteous, judgmental, and preachy diatribe (words)? Btw, I'm not saying you're a self-righteous person - I hope you aren't - but your words are very pretentious (like you think you're a prophet or something).

I'm not condemning you. I don't even know you (and you don't know me, btw). I'm just giving you a little feedback - which you're not taking very gracefully, as you've resorted to ad hominem already.

I love Truth, in the scriptures, and elsewhere - the scriptures have become really wordy, too. Out of 2500 pages, my one-pager or maybe 3-pager would be the Golden Rule and the Sermon on the Mount. Almost everything else is fluff, filler, stories, prophecies which may or may not apply to our day, things said to other people of other times and circumstances. Wouldn't you rather speak to God directly about your life, today?

There's been plenty of truth in many of my posts, I guess you just don't like it so now you demonize me with your adjectives. And I'd be happy to keep dialoging with you if you can reply with anything but insults.

Jesef wrote: ↑June 29th, 2018, 2:49 pm TI, why would it be difficult for Jesus to appear bodily to anyone in our day to give them a literal witness that He is resurrected - like 3 Nephi 11. Please don't give an answer that equates to: it's too difficult (for Him), i.e. He's not powerful enough, or it would destroy the Earth, or anything else that basically says God is not Omnipotent.

Jesef wrote: ↑June 29th, 2018, 3:38 pm Based on the evidence, A LOT of it, I would have to conclude that Jesus doesn't do this - appear to people in his resurrected body. Don't know why. But I can't find a single credible account. I even think that the encounters with John the Baptist & Peter, James, & John (which are uncorroborated for all intents and purposes) were "spiritual" and not tangible. In other words, I think this is a false expectation that leads to ultimate disappointment. D&C 129 might just be hypothetical nonsense, for all I can tell (not a shred of evidence supporting it) in nearly 200 years of Restoration history, millions of good people all seeking it too. Every spiritual experience I've learned of, or experienced, has been spiritual only, sometimes very lucid, even OBE (out of body experience), but still intangible, not physical. Sorry, but that's what I've come up with in decades of research and seeking and searching. I don't know why. There is no modern, physical evidence of resurrection.

Jesef wrote: ↑June 29th, 2018, 3:59 pm I think "resurrection" - re-taking up a physical body, on the physical/mortal plane - actually, probably/most-likely refers to re-incarnation (as humans) in the cycle of multiple mortal probations. And that, as we ascend, we probably attain "bodies" of a higher/inter-dimensional nature and energy (glory, not crude/tangible). But I'm happy for the Second Coming to prove me wrong (or anyone else with experiential & credible & sane knowledge).