LDS Freedom Forum

Interesting, judge for yourself.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZI-dPJc2dPI

Bishop Koyle's Prophecies

http://woodyoubelieveit.blogspot.com/20 ... -mine.html

I found it interesting what Bishop John H. Koyle
had said in his prophecies in about 1894
from his dream or revelation known as the "Dream Mine"

"three leaders will die in close proximity to one another"

which they did - 3 general authorities of the church died last year.
taken from KUTV Tuesday, September 22nd 2015
"Elder Scott is third LDS apostle to die in last few months"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Bishop John H. Koyle's 'prophecy' (known as part of the 'Dream Mine' aka 'Relief Mine'

"Troubles in the valleys for the Church will commence following the passing of the 12th president of the Church"(Pres. Kimball).

48. "Near the time of the end, many of the General Authorities will become quite old. Troubles will start when three leaders will die in close proximity to one another. The new replacements will not be able to hold the Church together."

49. "In the end there will be a great apostasy in the Church. A rift in leadership will cause many members to leave. Something will happen to make members congregate in and around the churches, and at various other locations to discuss and ponder the great disturbing changes occurring. This will mark the commencement of the time of problems for the Church, as well as the time of apostasy."

Puts on Mod Hat
Bumping. Saw a duplicate of this thread and tried to delete said duplicate. Did so, but this thread also seemed to vanish. Will try again soon. Just need a quick link back here to make sure.

Takes Off Mod Hat

"great disturbing changes" - - - - >>>

temple ssm??

or

more likely...

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

??

Gonna bump again.

Bishop Koyle's vision and prophecy seem false and unfulfilled, in its time. Of course, if we keep waiting some things will match it. Doesn't scare me one bit, neither does Julie Rowe or any other prognosticator. I think most of their visions & prophecies were just symbolic and probably just personal (only to be applied to themselves, not to the world or the rest of us). Just my opinion - but I've seen too many of these just not come to pass in reality or in the time specified. Bogus.

Jesef wrote: ↑June 25th, 2018, 9:38 pm Bishop Koyle's vision and prophecy seem false and unfulfilled, in its time. Of course, if we keep waiting some things will match it. Doesn't scare me one bit, neither does Julie Rowe or any other prognosticator. I think most of their visions & prophecies were just symbolic and probably just personal (only to be applied to themselves, not to the world or the rest of us). Just my opinion - but I've seen too many of these just not come to pass in reality or in the time specified. Bogus.

Indeed. If we stick with people that are truly in authority, we can stay out of trouble.
When certain people like Bishop Koyle were excommunicated, or who had set themselves up as a light to the world in competition to the oracles that constitute the Lord's truly anointed, you can usually be sure that they are representative of a stream of revelation that is from a water source that is impure.

I'm not saying that every experience that everyone that is not in authority may have had is automatically suspect, but the recipe for someone being misled or someone being a deceiver is pretty straight-forward.

I AM wrote: ↑June 25th, 2018, 7:49 pm I found it interesting what Bishop John H. Koyle
had said in his prophecies in about 1894
from his dream or revelation known as the "Dream Mine"

"three leaders will die in close proximity to one another"

which they did - 3 general authorities of the church died last year.
taken from KUTV Tuesday, September 22nd 2015
"Elder Scott is third LDS apostle to die in last few months"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Bishop John H. Koyle's 'prophecy' (known as part of the 'Dream Mine' aka 'Relief Mine'

"Troubles in the valleys for the Church will commence following the passing of the 12th president of the Church"(Pres. Kimball).

48. "Near the time of the end, many of the General Authorities will become quite old. Troubles will start when three leaders will die in close proximity to one another. The new replacements will not be able to hold the Church together."

49. "In the end there will be a great apostasy in the Church. A rift in leadership will cause many members to leave. Something will happen to make members congregate in and around the churches, and at various other locations to discuss and ponder the great disturbing changes occurring. This will mark the commencement of the time of problems for the Church, as well as the time of apostasy."

And what of the three apostles who died in close succession back in 1906? How does that fit into Koyle's 'prophecies'? And what if we interpret the "three leaders will die in close proximity to one another" as being the prophet/president of the Church and thus hasn't been 'fulfilled' yet?

For prophecies to be of any value, they need to be specific and timely and relevant (in my opinion). Stuff like Koyle's that expired long ago, is no longer relevant, and which no one in his day saw fulfilled - just seems disappointing and irrelevant. Why would God use Bishop Koyle to speak to us or warn us today, like 150 years later? God is not nonsensical. Btw, unless an ancient prophecy specifically and accurately calls out our particular time and generation, I don't think they apply to us either. I think God operates mostly by speaking through people in a relevant way, meaning to their own time and circumstances. On the "end times" prophecies and stuff, EVERY GENERATION has thought it was speaking about them - EVERY WAR was tagged as like the last war, Armageddon, etc., the end of the world - by many religious fanatics - and they were all wrong. So I think it's wise to take a step back and not jump the gun on thinking we are the ones, the Second Coming is in OUR day. Btw, every set of Apostles has spoken as if the Second Coming is near at hand, possibly in their generation - and that was not true either. HOWEVER, I do think it's very healthy to always be personally spiritually prepared - because any day could literally be your last - and that is your Second Coming, so to speak. So, from a symbolic and personal application standpoint, it can be healthy to "liken" all these prophecies to yourself, as long as you don't go hide in a bunker and retreat from the world and living life, etc. People need to chill - and realize that chilling is actually a more faithful stance than freaking out and trying to make sure they "survive" the apocalypse which may or may not happen in their lifetimes. Be wise. Be sane. Be level. Too many Chicken Littles screaming the sky is falling!

Even if the prophecy is correct the 3 leaders who "die in close proximity to one another" could refer to geography rather than time. In fact, that would be the correct use of "proximity".
Also, it could refer to 3 presidents rather than simply General Authorities.

I'm not sure if anything fits with troubles "in the valleys" developing following the passing of President Kimball.

Also, there is the whole Dream Mine scam of course.

Yeah, I think it's all bogus. If the mine starts producing tons of precious metals, I might reconsider. Ha, ha!

Jesef wrote: ↑June 26th, 2018, 11:46 amOn the "end times" prophecies and stuff, EVERY GENERATION has thought it was speaking about them - EVERY WAR was tagged as like the last war, Armageddon, etc., the end of the world - by many religious fanatics - and they were all wrong. So I think it's wise to take a step back and not jump the gun on thinking we are the ones, the Second Coming is in OUR day. Btw, every set of Apostles has spoken as if the Second Coming is near at hand, possibly in their generation - and that was not true either. HOWEVER, I do think it's very healthy to always be personally spiritually prepared - because any day could literally be your last - and that is your Second Coming, so to speak. So, from a symbolic and personal application standpoint, it can be healthy to "liken" all these prophecies to yourself, as long as you don't go hide in a bunker and retreat from the world and living life, etc. People need to chill - and realize that chilling is actually a more faithful stance than freaking out and trying to make sure they "survive" the apocalypse which may or may not happen in their lifetimes. Be wise. Be sane. Be level. Too many Chicken Littles screaming the sky is falling!

Well said.

You are supposed to act as if its in your day. You are supposed to act as if it could be tomorrow or next week. That's what Matthew 24 and JST-Matthew teach.

It's not folly that others thought it was in their day. This is real faith, the kind we need. That was an animation of their faith and them making good choices to think this. And their thinking that made them step and try to win the game when they were down a few points. We keep misreading this when we hear and read these attitudes.

Where would they have been if they thought it would happen never....or 200 years later? They'd be at the bar, or watching TV, or sports instead of doing some good.

Every generation is SUPPOSED to think it could be in their day. That's a doctrine, not a mistake. It's how you figure out your connection with Christ. Even the apostles when Christ had barely resurrected were taught to 'act and behave' as if he could come back at any minute. Now those of you with kids or who around kids can tell when you think that way there's a difference in behavior. When you leave kids alone in the house, there's a huge difference to how they'll act if they think Mom and Dad could come back at any minute compared to ...Mom and Dad might come back in 10 years, or 100 years, or maybe they've forgotten us.

Recently at church I heard one of the people talking about how on their mission 30 years ago they thought Jesus would come back that year of their mission 30 years ago, and their almost ...defeated like...attitude was how silly it seemed to have thought 'HE' would come for them, and how now looking back they thought they weren't smart. And we're hearing that in church and thinking...my gosh this person has no hope and they sound so careless. It's sad. It was almost tearful how some people act like, ''...yeah one time when I was young I used to believe in the scriptures..." kinds of attitudes. And these attitudes are sad to hear.

There is also nothing in it that's freaking out, or overreacting in thinking 'what you do today makes a difference', and 'what you do today matters'; and that you SHOULD make a difference now. That's what being valiant and faithful is. (This is what President Monson and President Hinckley' acted like. When I say that I mean ENDURING faith. We want enduring faith, not just wishy washy once a week faith thinking we need to do something now thinking.

Since when do people that don't care get to say they are wise and sane and others that act on enduring faith aren't>?

Don't you think there's something wrong with that?

If you aren't thinking that Christ could come back today, or next year, instead of 200 years from now then you really aren't thinking about preparing at all. And you aren't caring really.

Now I hope I haven't offended anyone. But I have to tell you the truth and what's right. People that really care about you will tell you what's needed so you don't hurt yourself because they see you are precious. And sometimes its hard to say that. It doesn't mean they don't like you because they didn't just let you walk off a cliff, like the others claiming to be your 'friends' are doing.

Onsdag wrote: ↑June 26th, 2018, 11:35 am

I AM wrote: ↑June 25th, 2018, 7:49 pm I found it interesting what Bishop John H. Koyle
had said in his prophecies in about 1894
from his dream or revelation known as the "Dream Mine"

"three leaders will die in close proximity to one another"

which they did - 3 general authorities of the church died last year.
taken from KUTV Tuesday, September 22nd 2015
"Elder Scott is third LDS apostle to die in last few months"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Bishop John H. Koyle's 'prophecy' (known as part of the 'Dream Mine' aka 'Relief Mine'

"Troubles in the valleys for the Church will commence following the passing of the 12th president of the Church"(Pres. Kimball).

48. "Near the time of the end, many of the General Authorities will become quite old. Troubles will start when three leaders will die in close proximity to one another. The new replacements will not be able to hold the Church together."

49. "In the end there will be a great apostasy in the Church. A rift in leadership will cause many members to leave. Something will happen to make members congregate in and around the churches, and at various other locations to discuss and ponder the great disturbing changes occurring. This will mark the commencement of the time of problems for the Church, as well as the time of apostasy."

And what of the three apostles who died in close succession back in 1906? How does that fit into Koyle's 'prophecies'? And what if we interpret the "three leaders will die in close proximity to one another" as being the prophet/president of the Church and thus hasn't been 'fulfilled' yet?

------------------
he does say
""Troubles in the valleys for the Church will commence following the passing of the 12th president of the Church"(Pres. Kimball).

48. "Near the time of the end,

so take it for what you will

I AM wrote: ↑June 26th, 2018, 7:15 pm

Onsdag wrote: ↑June 26th, 2018, 11:35 am

I AM wrote: ↑June 25th, 2018, 7:49 pm I found it interesting what Bishop John H. Koyle
had said in his prophecies in about 1894
from his dream or revelation known as the "Dream Mine"

"three leaders will die in close proximity to one another"

which they did - 3 general authorities of the church died last year.
taken from KUTV Tuesday, September 22nd 2015
"Elder Scott is third LDS apostle to die in last few months"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Bishop John H. Koyle's 'prophecy' (known as part of the 'Dream Mine' aka 'Relief Mine'

"Troubles in the valleys for the Church will commence following the passing of the 12th president of the Church"(Pres. Kimball).

48. "Near the time of the end, many of the General Authorities will become quite old. Troubles will start when three leaders will die in close proximity to one another. The new replacements will not be able to hold the Church together."

49. "In the end there will be a great apostasy in the Church. A rift in leadership will cause many members to leave. Something will happen to make members congregate in and around the churches, and at various other locations to discuss and ponder the great disturbing changes occurring. This will mark the commencement of the time of problems for the Church, as well as the time of apostasy."

And what of the three apostles who died in close succession back in 1906? How does that fit into Koyle's 'prophecies'? And what if we interpret the "three leaders will die in close proximity to one another" as being the prophet/president of the Church and thus hasn't been 'fulfilled' yet?

------------------
he does say
""Troubles in the valleys for the Church will commence following the passing of the 12th president of the Church"(Pres. Kimball).

48. "Near the time of the end,

so take it for what you will

And that time period is exactly when people starting embracing materialism first, and scriptures second. It's when people started getting distracted, and began to accept philosophy of man, which took time to trickle down. Around that time they used to tell people openly to not have luxury cars, or luxury houses or items, (that it was at the expense of the youths' futures...) then people stopped doing it not long after.

EdGoble wrote: ↑June 26th, 2018, 10:42 am

Jesef wrote: ↑June 25th, 2018, 9:38 pm Bishop Koyle's vision and prophecy seem false and unfulfilled, in its time. Of course, if we keep waiting some things will match it. Doesn't scare me one bit, neither does Julie Rowe or any other prognosticator. I think most of their visions & prophecies were just symbolic and probably just personal (only to be applied to themselves, not to the world or the rest of us). Just my opinion - but I've seen too many of these just not come to pass in reality or in the time specified. Bogus.

Indeed. If we stick with people that are truly in authority, we can stay out of trouble.
When certain people like Bishop Koyle were excommunicated, or who had set themselves up as a light to the world in competition to the oracles that constitute the Lord's truly anointed, you can usually be sure that they are representative of a stream of revelation that is from a water source that is impure.

I'm not saying that every experience that everyone that is not in authority may have had is automatically suspect, but the recipe for someone being misled or someone being a deceiver is pretty straight-forward.

-----------------------
"truly in authority" wow, what words.
I guess that means pretty much all of us.

For those of you who think that the prophet is
the only one who can or should receive inspiration,
or revelation and can prophecy please read the scriptures below.

The Acts of the Apostles
Chapter 2

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days,
saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens
I will pour out in those days of my Spirit;
and they shall prophesy:

you know
I find it interesting that particularly in this forum
so many have closed their minds to accepting other peoples dreams, visions, and NDE's.
especially when they're not supposedly from one in authority.

Dreams and Visions and Prophesying play an important role in our church
and are part of our legacy; they're in our scriptures EVERYWHERE.
Where would our church be today without them !
"Joseph Smith's First Vision" , Lehi's Dream, and so on and so forth.

Before judging others ask yourself -
are you perfect ?
are you ALWAYS is tune with the Lords spirit so that he speaks
through you and EVERYTHING you say will happen ? NO
(I think that the prophets themselves sometimes even have
a hard time with that one.)
so don't expect it of others when their predictions about some disaster doesn't happen.
instead be glad that it didn't happen.
WE ARE ALL fallible not infallible.

People CAN and DO predict things and can see things before they happen.
DON"T judge people just because they have had a dream, vision, NDE, etc. or whatever,
and have tried to warn others about it.
If it doesn't happen - then ALL THE BETTER - NO BIG DEAL.
and if it does happen then aren't you glad that someone told you about it, and you listened and prepared for it.

We should all be more appreciative that someone is willing to tell us what they saw
at the risk of being cut down, ridiculed, and criticized by others.

There is two sides to everything,
but wouldn't it be very wrong
to assume that ALL NDE, visions, and dreams,
whether they be from members of the church,
or your bishop or even a church leader or from some non-member,
will come to pass and are from the Lord.
It's obvious that they are not all from the Lord,
because some things that some people have said have not happened.
Also many of these experiences differ in many different ways;
from how they saw the future, to the timing of when these things unfold.
So simply said they ALL can't be right or from the Lord.

Like most of you, I have read most of these dreams, visions,
and books about people that have had NDE
and talk about future events that they saw.
I myself believe that all these people, whether or not they be prophets,
members of the church or a non-member or just some guy like
Spencer, seem to be quite genuine and very sincere.
And I believe they really had this experiences and saw these things.
But that doesn't mean that ALL these things from ALL these people
are from the Lord and will happen and come to pass
the way that they saw it, or the way they say it will happen.

I personally believe that when a person has a NDE,
first of all it is very personal, tailored to them only
and how they see things.
But secondly, it could be a lot like a dream -
not ALL things we dream about come true. But some things do.
Most of us have had a dream and then later in the future
we see it comes true, or, it plays out in our lives the way we
saw it in our dream, or in some similar way.

Also though - NDE are very special.
And If the Lord wants to show someone visions of the future
while on the other side of the veil, then so be it.
Who am I to say that he hasn't ?
And just because it doesn't come from a member or some church official
doesn't mean that it's not true and will not happen.
"I will pour out of my Spirit upon ALL flesh"
"in the last days and they shall prophesy"

But I think we tend to believe from reading these experiences,
what we want to believe and how they can fit together with
other peoples experiences that we read, into our little puzzle
of what we want to see and how it can all fit into one big picture,
when perhaps it was never meant to.
I also think we tend to believe that because someone has had an
experience,(especially if it is a member) and sees the future then
predicts what will happen, that it has got to have come from God;
or when what they say does not happen, then we think, maybe
they have been deceived and have been listening to the wrong spirit.
or that the Lord has stayed his hand and that's why it didn't happen.
I believe, this simply is not true.
These visions, dreams, and NDE are what they are.
Some things will happen and some things will not.

Even though I truly believe that some of these things WILL happen
and that some of these people could see future events
and how and when they would happen;
there is one thing that we know for sure, and that is -
that everything will come to pass according to the scriptures,
and NOT exactly according to these NDE, visions, and dreams
people have had.
I think the only mistake that someone could make is if we
are substituting them for our scriptures; believing more in them
and what they say about the future, than what the scriptures say.
The scriptures tell much of what the future holds if we will but read them.

Show me visions and prophecies that were fulfilled in their day and the value derived from them. I'm a believer. But so many were and have been just simply false/untrue - what do you make of those? Do you just use confirmation bias to try and twist some kind of meaning or fulfillment out of them or do you call it like it is - do you accept reality? The truth is there have been many, many religious and spiritual fanatics who have predicted all kinds of nonsense that did not come to pass. I am not inclined to make excuses for them. Their spiritual gifts were in error. People promising healing and then the person dies. People promising some event will occur soon & it doesn't even happen in their entire lifetime. I think that crap is just bogus. Pretending otherwise is a denial of truth & reality - it's fantasy. Faith isn't believing anything - real faith is believing things that are true but unseen. Faith in things that are false, or simply are not so (or going to be so), is fantasy. That's both unhealthy and disappointing/disillusioning.

I AM wrote: ↑June 26th, 2018, 7:22 pm "truly in authority" wow, what words.
I guess that means pretty much all of us.

For those of you who think that the prophet is
the only one who can or should receive inspiration,
or revelation and can prophecy please read the scriptures below.

You are taking this out of context. Truly in authority means those that are called and set apart to receive institutional revelation for the institution as a whole. Sorry, no, not everybody has that, and it is clear who does.
We can all receive revelation for our own lives. Too often, however, people set themselves up for a source of light for everyone, who are not called or set apart. Sometimes there are exceptional circumstances where clearly someone's experience can apply to others, but this is the exception, not the rule, as you would like to make it out to be. And usually people that are careful put disclaimers on their experiences. And so, people who are not careful, but take every wind of doctrine or every tale from every polluted stream as significant are not only gullible, but out of order.

gardener4life wrote: ↑June 26th, 2018, 5:11 pm You are supposed to act as if its in your day. You are supposed to act as if it could be tomorrow or next week. That's what Matthew 24 and JST-Matthew teach.

It's not folly that others thought it was in their day. This is real faith, the kind we need. That was an animation of their faith and them making good choices to think this. And their thinking that made them step and try to win the game when they were down a few points. We keep misreading this when we hear and read these attitudes.

Where would they have been if they thought it would happen never....or 200 years later? They'd be at the bar, or watching TV, or sports instead of doing some good.

Every generation is SUPPOSED to think it could be in their day. That's a doctrine, not a mistake. It's how you figure out your connection with Christ. Even the apostles when Christ had barely resurrected were taught to 'act and behave' as if he could come back at any minute. Now those of you with kids or who around kids can tell when you think that way there's a difference in behavior. When you leave kids alone in the house, there's a huge difference to how they'll act if they think Mom and Dad could come back at any minute compared to ...Mom and Dad might come back in 10 years, or 100 years, or maybe they've forgotten us.

Recently at church I heard one of the people talking about how on their mission 30 years ago they thought Jesus would come back that year of their mission 30 years ago, and their almost ...defeated like...attitude was how silly it seemed to have thought 'HE' would come for them, and how now looking back they thought they weren't smart. And we're hearing that in church and thinking...my gosh this person has no hope and they sound so careless. It's sad. It was almost tearful how some people act like, ''...yeah one time when I was young I used to believe in the scriptures..." kinds of attitudes. And these attitudes are sad to hear.

There is also nothing in it that's freaking out, or overreacting in thinking 'what you do today makes a difference', and 'what you do today matters'; and that you SHOULD make a difference now. That's what being valiant and faithful is. (This is what President Monson and President Hinckley' acted like. When I say that I mean ENDURING faith. We want enduring faith, not just wishy washy once a week faith thinking we need to do something now thinking.

Since when do people that don't care get to say they are wise and sane and others that act on enduring faith aren't>?

Don't you think there's something wrong with that?

If you aren't thinking that Christ could come back today, or next year, instead of 200 years from now then you really aren't thinking about preparing at all. And you aren't caring really.

Now I hope I haven't offended anyone. But I have to tell you the truth and what's right. People that really care about you will tell you what's needed so you don't hurt yourself because they see you are precious. And sometimes its hard to say that. It doesn't mean they don't like you because they didn't just let you walk off a cliff, like the others claiming to be your 'friends' are doing.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Living by Scriptural Guidance
Russell M. Nelson


"Once we understand why we need guidance and where we obtain it, we then ask, how can we achieve it? How can we truly live, not “by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God”?"

"We begin with a determination to “liken all scriptures unto us … for our profit and learning.”14 If we “press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, … [we] shall have eternal life.”

1 Nephi 19

23 And I did read many things unto them which were written in the books of Moses; but that I might more fully persuade them to believe in the Lord their Redeemer I did read unto them that which was written by the prophet Isaiah; for I did liken all scriptures unto us, that it might be for our profit and learning.

----------------------
"As you continue your prayerful study, other principles will become apparent. As you put the principles together, you will begin to bridge the gap between the prophets and people who lived in the past—they-there-then—and us in our day—I-here-now. Perhaps this is what Nephi meant when he said that he “did liken all scriptures unto us, that it might be for our profit and learning” (1 Nephi 19:23). Furthermore, by so doing we are treasuring up the Lord’s words (see Joseph Smith—Matthew 1:37)."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“I Know Your Doing”:
By Richard Dilworth Rust

"President Ezra Taft Benson declared in general conference, “The Book of Mormon … was written for our day. The Nephites never had the book; neither did the Lamanites of ancient times. It was meant for us.” (Ensign, Nov. 1986, p. 6.) A close look at the book reveals how and why this is so."

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1988/12/i-kn ... s?lang=eng