LDS Freedom Forum

Is it just me, or is the grammar so poor in this verse that it doesn't really make sense? What is "a state of awful"?

Robin Hood wrote: ↑June 19th, 2018, 2:51 pm Is it just me, or is the grammar so poor in this verse that it doesn't really make sense? What is "a state of awful"?

"Yuckey"...

Seems totally clear to me.

Arenera wrote: ↑June 19th, 2018, 2:59 pm

Robin Hood wrote: ↑June 19th, 2018, 2:51 pm Is it just me, or is the grammar so poor in this verse that it doesn't really make sense? What is "a state of awful"?

"Yuckey"...

14 Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked,
yea, in darkness, and a state of awful,
fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them;
thus they remain in this state, as well as the righteous in paradise,
until the time of their resurrection.

The wicked are those who will not repent, will not accept Christ. They will go to the Telestial kingdom.

14 Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful,
fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them;

Their looking was "awful, fearful" - in other words, their looking was awful and fearful. The grammar and punctuation are correct.

Grammatically they are giving equal weight to the descriptive nature of the" awful, fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them..." when you place commas between descriptive words (adjectives) it gives each word equal weight. In other words they want you to know that the fearful looking for the fiery indignation... is equally awful as fearful.

I wouldn't worry too much about the grammar and spelling but more the meaning.

This is my personal opinion not doctrine, but you can feel the spirit to know the truth.

Its my opinion that the awful state of the wicked is three parts.

1) They will come to a point where they will remember what they promised to in the Pre-Existence for their mission on Earth. They will see that they didn't do those things and didn't help those people that they had promised to help. They will feel great anguish about this in part because of #3 below.

2) When standing next to those that are pure, holy, and sanctified they will wish they were as bright and glowing as those people...(which came from obedience). They won't be able to endure being around such people. This is part of why Laman and Lemuel were so angry and hateful to Nephi. Nephi wasn't hateful to them. He didn't do anything to cause it, except to try to be good and seek Jesus.

3) After losing their rewards and after judgement the awful most worst part of the judgment will be not having endured and been faithful to have their eternal identity intact. And also they won't have been worthy of their eternal family or its members. They will see that they have lost those opportunities. And it will especially sting when seeing that 'opportunities' means real people. And that they had hurt and neglected those people.

Nah. I bet there will be some "regrets" as we would put it, but I'm pretty sure we can retake the test if we don't like the "grade" we got - or, in other words, that we can continue to progress eternally as long as we choose. Evil = deliberate harm. We've gotten too judgmental and persnickety about "sins of omission" - i.e. "you'll be punished for all the good you could have done but didn't" - that's a guilt complex no one can escape, like the gravity well of a black hole. That's like saying - too bad you can't reverse time and repent/repair that wrong you did 10 or 20 years ago - too bad. This is a guilt-ridden and discouraging paradigm. I don't believe it. It doesn't feel right or good. Neither does infinite consequences for finite wrongs. Neither does punishment for what you didn't do. I think we'll be measured fairly and mercifully on what good we did or tried to do & what harm we deliberately did.

Arenera wrote: ↑June 19th, 2018, 3:09 pm The wicked are those who will not repent, will not accept Christ. They will go to the Telestial kingdom.

EmmaLee wrote: ↑June 19th, 2018, 3:12 pm 14 Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful,
fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them;

Their looking was "awful, fearful" - in other words, their looking was awful and fearful. The grammar and punctuation are correct.

They have no hope. They are the opposite of those in Moroni 7:41 "... ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." Like Arenera said, instead of being raised up, they are stuck in the Telestial Kingdom.

Tbone wrote: ↑June 19th, 2018, 5:01 pm

Arenera wrote: ↑June 19th, 2018, 3:09 pm The wicked are those who will not repent, will not accept Christ. They will go to the Telestial kingdom.

EmmaLee wrote: ↑June 19th, 2018, 3:12 pm 14 Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful,
fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them;

Their looking was "awful, fearful" - in other words, their looking was awful and fearful. The grammar and punctuation are correct.

They have no hope. They are the opposite of those in Moroni 7:41 "... ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." Like Arenera said, instead of being raised up, they are stuck in the Telestial Kingdom.

I wasn't commenting on what Arenera said. I was commenting on the OP.

EmmaLee wrote: ↑June 19th, 2018, 6:19 pm

Tbone wrote: ↑June 19th, 2018, 5:01 pm

Arenera wrote: ↑June 19th, 2018, 3:09 pm The wicked are those who will not repent, will not accept Christ. They will go to the Telestial kingdom.

EmmaLee wrote: ↑June 19th, 2018, 3:12 pm 14 Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful,
fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them;

Their looking was "awful, fearful" - in other words, their looking was awful and fearful. The grammar and punctuation are correct.

They have no hope. They are the opposite of those in Moroni 7:41 "... ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." Like Arenera said, instead of being raised up, they are stuck in the Telestial Kingdom.

I wasn't commenting on what Arenera said. I was commenting on the OP.

I know, but the OP, Arenera and you made me think of what I was commenting on.

I believe God has to have what we would consider a VERY generous/merciful consideration of what "repent" and "believe in Christ" means, if that is true. Either that or the contingency plan for teaching and informing people sufficiently and clearly is much, much bigger than we currently understand and teach widely (in the Church).

Jesef wrote: ↑June 19th, 2018, 6:27 pm Either that or the contingency plan for teaching and informing people sufficiently and clearly is much, much bigger than we currently understand and teach widely (in the Church).

You mean like what we teach in section 138?

If that is true, you could even say the contingency plan, the Plan B, is actually the Plan A - since it covers 99.999%+ of the people. You could even draw the conclusion that having our Gospel in this life (during mortality) isn't really that important at all, otherwise God would have provided it to everyone - they would have literally been born with it (innately, like conscience)...

gardener4life wrote: ↑June 19th, 2018, 4:02 pm I wouldn't worry too much about the grammar and spelling but more the meaning.

This is my personal opinion not doctrine, but you can feel the spirit to know the truth.

Its my opinion that the awful state of the wicked is three parts.

1) They will come to a point where they will remember what they promised to in the Pre-Existence for their mission on Earth. They will see that they didn't do those things and didn't help those people that they had promised to help. They will feel great anguish about this in part because of #3 below.

2) When standing next to those that are pure, holy, and sanctified they will wish they were as bright and glowing as those people...(which came from obedience). ...Do we understand our indebtedness to Heavenly Father and plead with all our souls for the grace of God?
When we kneel to pray, is it to replay the greatest hits of our own righteousness, or is it to confess our faults, plead for God’s mercy, and shed tears of gratitude for the amazing plan of redemption?
Salvation(which is to be sanctified and pure) cannot be bought with the currency of obedience; it is purchased by the blood of the Son of God... President D.U.

They won't be able to endure being around such people. This is part of why Laman and Lemuel were so angry and hateful to Nephi. Nephi wasn't hateful to them. He didn't do anything to cause it, except to try to be good and seek Jesus.

3) After losing their rewards and after judgement the awful most worst part of the judgment will be not having endured and been faithful to have their eternal identity intact. And also they won't have been worthy of their eternal family or its members. They will see that they have lost those opportunities. And it will especially sting when seeing that 'opportunities' means real people. And that they had hurt and neglected those people.

What a terrific voice mind and will of the Lord talk this was.

The Gift of Grace

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... e?lang=eng

Robin Hood wrote: ↑June 19th, 2018, 2:51 pm Is it just me, or is the grammar so poor in this verse that it doesn't really make sense? What is "a state of awful"?

Jacob 6:13
13 Finally, I bid you farewell, until I shall meet you before the pleasing bar of God, which bar striketh the wicked with awful dread and fear. Amen.

Alma 40:13
13 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil—for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house—and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil.

From these verses we learn that the wicked are filled with awful fear knowing they will go to outer darkness, not paradise.

A very serious form of "a state of awful" is to think and realize that the hope and promise of receiving eternal life comes through any other way than through "the grace merits and mercy of Christ..

Mosiah 4:




1 ...And now, it came to pass that when king Benjamin had made an end of speaking the words which had been delivered unto him by the angel of the Lord, that he cast his eyes round about on the multitude, and behold they had fallen to the earth, for the fear of the Lord had come upon them.
2 And they had viewed themselves in their own carnal state, even less than the dust of the earth. And they all cried aloud with one voice, saying: O have mercy, and apply the atoning blood of Christ that we may receive forgiveness of our sins, and our hearts may be purified; for we believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who created heaven and earth, and all things; who shall come down among the children of men.
3 And it came to pass that after they had spoken these words the Spirit of the Lord came upon them, and they were filled with joy, having received a remission of their sins, and having peace of conscience, because of the exceeding faith which they had in Jesus Christ who should come, according to the words which king Benjamin had spoken unto them...

2nephi 9:

39 ...O, my beloved brethren, remember the awfulness in transgressing against that Holy God, and also the awfulness of yielding to the enticings of that cunning one. Remember, to be carnally-minded is death, and to be spiritually-minded is life eternal.
40 O, my beloved brethren, give ear to my words. Remember the greatness of the Holy One of Israel. Do not say that I have spoken hard things against you; for if ye do, ye will revile against the truth; for I have spoken the words of your Maker. I know that the words of truth are hard against all uncleanness; but the righteous fear them not, for they love the truth and are not shaken.
41 O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.
42 And whoso knocketh, to him will he open; and the wise, and the learned, and they that are rich, who are puffed up because of their learning, and their wisdom, and their riches—yea, they are they whom he despiseth; and save they shall cast these things away, and consider themselves fools before God, and come down in the depths of humility, he will not open unto them.
43 But the things of the wise and the prudent shall be hid from them forever—yea, that happiness which is prepared for the saints.
44 O, my beloved brethren, remember my words. Behold, I take off my garments, and I shake them before you; I pray the God of my salvation that he view me with his all-searching eye; wherefore, ye shall know at the last day, when all men shall be judged of their works, that the God of Israel did witness that I shook your iniquities from my soul, and that I stand with brightness before him, and am rid of your blood.
45 O, my beloved brethren, turn away from your sins; shake off the chains of him that would bind you fast; come unto that God who is the rock of your salvation.
46 Prepare your souls for that glorious day when justice shall be administered unto the righteous, even the day of judgment, that ye may not shrink with awful fear; that ye may not remember your awful guilt in perfectness, and be constrained to exclaim: Holy, holy are thy judgments, O Lord God Almighty—but I know my guilt; I transgressed thy law, and my transgressions are mine; and the devil hath obtained me, that I am a prey to his awful misery.
47 But behold, my brethren, is it expedient that I should awake you to an awful reality of these things? Would I harrow up your souls if your minds were pure? Would I be plain unto you according to the plainness of the truth if ye were freed from sin?
48 Behold, if ye were holy I would speak unto you of holiness; but as ye are not holy, and ye look upon me as a teacher, it must needs be expedient that I teach you the consequences of sin.
49 Behold, my soul abhorreth sin, and my heart delighteth in righteousness; and I will praise the holy name of my God.
50 Come, my brethren, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters; and he that hath no money, come buy and eat; yea, come buy wine and milk without money and without price.
51 Wherefore, do not spend money for that which is of no worth, nor your labor for that which cannot satisfy. Hearken diligently unto me, and remember the words which I have spoken; and come unto the Holy One of Israel, and feast upon that which perisheth not, neither can be corrupted, and let your soul delight in fatness.
52 Behold, my beloved brethren, remember the words of your God; pray unto him continually by day, and give thanks unto his holy name by night. Let your hearts rejoice...

A converted soul and a window into what this freedom of being healed / changed through Jesus looks like / reflects:

2nephi 4:


...nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted.
20 My God hath been my support; he hath led me through mine afflictions in the wilderness; and he hath preserved me upon the waters of the great deep.
21 He hath filled me with his love, even unto the consuming of my flesh.
22 He hath confounded mine enemies, unto the causing of them to quake before me.
23 Behold, he hath heard my cry by day, and he hath given me knowledge by visions in the night-time.
24 And by day have I waxed bold in mighty prayer before him; yea, my voice have I sent up on high; and angels came down and ministered unto me.
25 And upon the wings of his Spirit hath my body been carried away upon exceedingly high mountains. And mine eyes have beheld great things, yea, even too great for man; therefore I was bidden that I should not write them.
26 O then, if I have seen so great things, if the Lord in his condescension unto the children of men hath visited men in so much mercy, why should my heart weep and my soul linger in the valley of sorrow, and my flesh waste away, and my strength slacken, because of mine afflictions?
27 And why should I yield to sin, because of my flesh? Yea, why should I give way to temptations, that the evil one have place in my heart to destroy my peace and afflict my soul? Why am I angry because of mine enemy?
28 Awake, my soul! No longer droop in sin. Rejoice, O my heart, and give place no more for the enemy of my soul.
29 Do not anger again because of mine enemies. Do not slacken my strength because of mine afflictions.
30 Rejoice, O my heart, and cry unto the Lord, and say: O Lord, I will praise thee forever; yea, my soul will rejoice in thee, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
31 O Lord, wilt thou redeem my soul? Wilt thou deliver me out of the hands of mine enemies? Wilt thou make me that I may shake at the appearance of sin?
32 May the gates of hell be shut continually before me, because that my heart is broken and my spirit is contrite! O Lord, wilt thou not shut the gates of thy righteousness before me, that I may walk in the path of the low valley, that I may be strict in the plain road!
33 O Lord, wilt thou encircle me around in the robe of thy righteousness! O Lord, wilt thou make a way for mine escape before mine enemies! Wilt thou make my path straight before me! Wilt thou not place a stumbling block in my way—but that thou wouldst clear my way before me, and hedge not up my way, but the ways of mine enemy.
34 O Lord, I have trusted in thee, and I will trust in thee forever. I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh. Yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm.
35 Yea, I know that God will give liberally to him that asketh. Yea, my God will give me, if I ask not amiss; therefore I will lift up my voice unto thee; yea, I will cry unto thee, my God, the rock of my righteousness. Behold, my voice shall forever ascend up unto thee, my rock and mine everlasting God. Amen.

Another gnat strained out.

"...for they are foolishness unto him..."

Matthew 7:

21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 ¶ Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

24 ¶ Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

What of these sayings--- do we hear and do and receive and find ourselves founded on the Rock of Christ as a result?

John 1

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God

What of our personal tabernacle / which houses our spirit is it founded through rebirth on the Rock of Christ?


Mosiah 5:

...7And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.
8 And under this head ye are made free, and there is no other head whereby ye can be made free. There is no other name given whereby salvation cometh; therefore, I would that ye should take upon you the name of Christ, all you that have entered into the covenant with God that ye should be obedient unto the end of your lives.
9 And it shall come to pass that whosoever doeth this shall be found at the right hand of God, for he shall know the name by which he is called; for he shall be called by the name of Christ.

D&C 88
119 Organize yourselves; prepare every needful thing; and establish a house, even a house of prayer, a house of fasting, a house of faith, a house of learning, a house of glory, a house of order, a house of God;
120 That your incomings may be in the name of the Lord; that your outgoings may be in the name of the Lord; that all your salutations may be in the name of the Lord, with uplifted hands unto the Most High.