LDS Freedom Forum

Read 3 Nephi 24.....its an entire chapter about tithing in the Book of Mormon, taken from Isaiah. and yet, the book of mormon doesnt talk about tithes...or does it????? It talks about a people who strayed from the ordinances (ordinances that were supposed to be a symbol of something). And so God sends "Elijah"....


3 Nephi 25

1 For behold, the day cometh that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble; and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of Hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

2 But unto you that fear my name, shall the Son of Righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth and grow up as calves in the stall.

3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of Hosts.

4 Remember ye the law of Moses, my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord;

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

The law of moses is not separate from the new testament....you can't understand Christs teachings without it. Neither is the book of mormon separate from the doctrine and covenants

So if the church can't figure out the tithe? What is the tithe? otherwise the whole earth is smitten with a curse...it will redeem us with our dead.

Sorry, I keep adding, but there are lots of passages that relate to this.

When Judas says to Jesus, that Mary should have used the oil for the poor......Jesus responds to Judas, "you will always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me.'

What christ is saying is that Judas will always have the "spiritually poor with him"...because they didn't receive Christ, i.e...rejected him. Judas rejected Him.

See, the elders of the church are responsible to "feed" the spiritually poor (the widows and fatherless....this is spiritual....apply spiritual eyes)....Instead, the Physically robbed them and In doing so, they also "spiritually robbed them." The Elders of the church have the records....they are supposed to correctly administer to "the spiritually poor......when Christ shows up, its just like soddom and gomoorah....they haven't administered to the widows and the poor (NOW, you're going to get confused if you don't read scripture with "dual" eyes. Christ rescues HIS spiritually poor that were robbed, and the Pharisees and scribes temporally rob them physically, and spiritually. Read these passages with Dual eyes. Pay attention to who Judas converses with, and then when christ converses with him. Mary, IS dumping oil (which is a spiritual symbol of the spirit)....all she has, and entire jar. JUDAS, he is stealing from the bag and wants to "steal" from her....

Now to the temple ceremony....Satan, (and the old ceremony had a preacher too)....wears "robes" of the priesthood........He only wears them outwardly. Peter James and John arent wearing any robes, but they are exchanging tokens and signs that "reveal" their priesthood robes.

Judas collected tithes, money, but look who he was exchanging them with (like a money changer in the temple)....He sought to take something from "mary"...who was giving all she had to Jesus......


There is a lot here. But it is a pattern. It's found in scripture over and over.

Our temple ceremony reveals the same pattern. We could teach it. why don't we.

Finrock wrote: ↑June 18th, 2018, 9:21 am

gardener4life wrote: ↑June 17th, 2018, 12:43 am Its not hard to see all the fallen apostates trying to bring down their own church here.

Don't be surprised if people start leaving this forum.

You guys have no idea how big the can of worms your opening is. You are opening the door for persecution to start, and over resources that don't belong to you.

The spirit of fear, intimidation, and threats = not the Spirit of God

-Finrock

You're right Finrock. Thanks for pointing that.

But luckily for us 'identifying good from evil is not fear or intimidation. And there's even a D&C Section about 'identifying' manifest spirits and if they are from God or not from God. We have the example of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price 'identifying' and noticing that Satan trying to impersonate God wasn't God.

D&C 50:31
Doctrine and Covenants
Wherefore, it shall come to pass, that if you behold a spirit manifested that you cannot understand, and you receive not that spirit, ye shall ask of the Father in the name of Jesus; and if he give not unto you that spirit, then you may know that it is not of God.

(The rest of D&C 50 is also good.)

Also we have a source here;

Moses Chapter 1 in the Pearl of Great Price.

We're lucky that you helped point out for us how there's a difference in identifying good from evil. And I just wish to add on top of the great advise you've given us how it's not wrong to identify good from evil. Thanks for that.

gardener4life wrote: ↑June 18th, 2018, 11:52 am

Finrock wrote: ↑June 18th, 2018, 9:21 am

gardener4life wrote: ↑June 17th, 2018, 12:43 am Its not hard to see all the fallen apostates trying to bring down their own church here.

Don't be surprised if people start leaving this forum.

You guys have no idea how big the can of worms your opening is. You are opening the door for persecution to start, and over resources that don't belong to you.

The spirit of fear, intimidation, and threats = not the Spirit of God

-Finrock

You're right Finrock. Thanks for pointing that.

But luckily for us 'identifying good from evil is not fear or intimidation. And there's even a D&C Section about 'identifying' manifest spirits and if they are from God or not from God. We have the example of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price 'identifying' and noticing that Satan trying to impersonate God wasn't God.

D&C 50:31
Doctrine and Covenants
Wherefore, it shall come to pass, that if you behold a spirit manifested that you cannot understand, and you receive not that spirit, ye shall ask of the Father in the name of Jesus; and if he give not unto you that spirit, then you may know that it is not of God.

(The rest of D&C 50 is also good.)

Also we have a source here;

Moses Chapter 1 in the Pearl of Great Price.

We're lucky that you helped point out for us how there's a difference in identifying good from evil. And I just wish to add on top of the great advise you've given us how it's not wrong to identify good from evil. Thanks for that.

Satan has no glory. And Moses saw that. Satan said fall down and worship me.

TrueIntent wrote: ↑June 18th, 2018, 12:01 pm

gardener4life wrote: ↑June 18th, 2018, 11:52 am

Finrock wrote: ↑June 18th, 2018, 9:21 am

gardener4life wrote: ↑June 17th, 2018, 12:43 am Its not hard to see all the fallen apostates trying to bring down their own church here.

Don't be surprised if people start leaving this forum.

You guys have no idea how big the can of worms your opening is. You are opening the door for persecution to start, and over resources that don't belong to you.

The spirit of fear, intimidation, and threats = not the Spirit of God

-Finrock

You're right Finrock. Thanks for pointing that.

But luckily for us 'identifying good from evil is not fear or intimidation. And there's even a D&C Section about 'identifying' manifest spirits and if they are from God or not from God. We have the example of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price 'identifying' and noticing that Satan trying to impersonate God wasn't God.

D&C 50:31
Doctrine and Covenants
Wherefore, it shall come to pass, that if you behold a spirit manifested that you cannot understand, and you receive not that spirit, ye shall ask of the Father in the name of Jesus; and if he give not unto you that spirit, then you may know that it is not of God.

(The rest of D&C 50 is also good.)

Also we have a source here;

Moses Chapter 1 in the Pearl of Great Price.

We're lucky that you helped point out for us how there's a difference in identifying good from evil. And I just wish to add on top of the great advise you've given us how it's not wrong to identify good from evil. Thanks for that.

Satan has no glory. And Moses saw that. Satan said fall down and worship me.

And when he wasn't obeyed Satan became offended, angry, and started to threaten and use fear, intimidation, ranting, raving, etc.

-Finrock

TrueIntent wrote: ↑June 18th, 2018, 10:49 am

Finrock wrote: ↑June 18th, 2018, 10:44 am

TrueIntent wrote: ↑June 18th, 2018, 10:37 am

Finrock wrote: ↑June 18th, 2018, 10:13 am

I don't really understand what you are saying. I am responding to your initial questions in your post. I've read your entire post and I'm not sure what you are trying to teach. Not that I don't want to, mind you.

-Finrock

My original post said the tithe is administered many different ways.....net, gross, increase, etc. They "tithe" as taught in scripture, is just a pattern, type or shadow, "its an ordinance".....Christ fulfilled these at his coming. The true tithe has nothing to do with money. You can not "open the windows of heaven" and gain spiritual knowledge by exchanging cash "tithes" with a church. You must exchange tithes with "messengers" beyond the veil. the currency to speak with messengers beyond the veil comes through repentance (in the symbolic form of offerings made at an alter)...and then we receive witnesses. This is the tithe. Its an exchange of spiritual currency. This is the temple ceremony. The tithes paid in the old testament were a "schoolmaster" The law of moses was a "school master". Christ in the new testament is the very "image".....the book of mormon confirms this pattern. I have never missed a tithe (cash currency) as taught by the church. I paid, net, then gross, then more than gross.......and then I experienced a witness that I was saved by grace/faith, not works.....and so, having never missed a CASH tithe ever to my knowledge (unless it was in infancy)....so I never acted in hypocrisy....when i realized my "works" were not saving....I told my bishop that I didn't believe in an "ordinance" as a work...that it was spiritual.....I stopped paying "CASH" everything, as well as a whole bunch of other things, and I received spiritual witnesses (tokens and signs)......my point is...we are saved by faith. Not works....it doesn't matter what the LDS church teaches the tithe is, its not that. The jews didn;t realize what their own ordinances pointed too...just like we don't realize what our ordinances point to. The tithe is not exchanged on this earth to open the windows of heaven.....tithes and offerings are made "through" the veil.

OK. I think I understand. I think you are saying that tithing is not about giving money or anything physical but its about giving something spiritual. Is that what you are saying?

-Finrock

Yes....the passages in Isaiah about Elijah coming, all talk about a tithe being paid. It is absolutely important to debate all the different ways the church has told us to pay tithes that may or may not contradict scripture.....it's clear, we've been taught many "different doctrines" on the subject. But then we must ask the next question.....What is the correct tithe, what did the law of moses point to when a tithe was being administered? Because the correct tithe is supposed to open the windows of heaven, and spare the whole earth from being smitten with a curse. Im speaking last days stuff....Which...if I'm correct, and my spiritual witnesses are what they are, the time is now!

There is a spiritual component to the scriptures that we read, yes. There are many levels to the scripture that we read, yes. However, we can't neglect the plain and simple definition and meaning and replace it with something more esoteric. Although there may be another level, the plain and simple level always maintains. It is about money and it is about spiritual things.

Zion must exist both on the physical and on the spiritual spectrum, else it is incomplete and not Zion. Both Spirit and Element are eternal and in order for there to be a fullness of joy, both spirit and element must be present.

In this world the poor don't get fed without work. The neglected don't get helped without money. Faith without works is dead, its frankly useless and no such thing actually exist. Faith = belief + works

-Finrock

Finrock wrote: ↑June 18th, 2018, 12:08 pm

TrueIntent wrote: ↑June 18th, 2018, 12:01 pm

gardener4life wrote: ↑June 18th, 2018, 11:52 am

Finrock wrote: ↑June 18th, 2018, 9:21 am

The spirit of fear, intimidation, and threats = not the Spirit of God

-Finrock

You're right Finrock. Thanks for pointing that.

But luckily for us 'identifying good from evil is not fear or intimidation. And there's even a D&C Section about 'identifying' manifest spirits and if they are from God or not from God. We have the example of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price 'identifying' and noticing that Satan trying to impersonate God wasn't God.

D&C 50:31
Doctrine and Covenants
Wherefore, it shall come to pass, that if you behold a spirit manifested that you cannot understand, and you receive not that spirit, ye shall ask of the Father in the name of Jesus; and if he give not unto you that spirit, then you may know that it is not of God.

(The rest of D&C 50 is also good.)

Also we have a source here;

Moses Chapter 1 in the Pearl of Great Price.

We're lucky that you helped point out for us how there's a difference in identifying good from evil. And I just wish to add on top of the great advise you've given us how it's not wrong to identify good from evil. Thanks for that.

Satan has no glory. And Moses saw that. Satan said fall down and worship me.

And when he wasn't obeyed Satan became offended, angry, and started to threaten and use fear, intimidation, ranting, raving, etc.

-Finrock

Yep. We find this same pattern in the New Testament right before they (the Pharisees and scribes) stone the prophet Stephen...gnashing of teeth. Saul was left amongst the crowd, and they laid their garments on him. Guess who Saul becomes.....the apostle Paul...a future teacher, and a witness against them.

Acts 7:54 ¶When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

See here...

Acts 7: 58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man’s feet, whose name was Saul.



Can you “see” and “hear”?

Finrock wrote: ↑June 18th, 2018, 12:16 pm

TrueIntent wrote: ↑June 18th, 2018, 10:49 am

Finrock wrote: ↑June 18th, 2018, 10:44 am

TrueIntent wrote: ↑June 18th, 2018, 10:37 am

My original post said the tithe is administered many different ways.....net, gross, increase, etc. They "tithe" as taught in scripture, is just a pattern, type or shadow, "its an ordinance".....Christ fulfilled these at his coming. The true tithe has nothing to do with money. You can not "open the windows of heaven" and gain spiritual knowledge by exchanging cash "tithes" with a church. You must exchange tithes with "messengers" beyond the veil. the currency to speak with messengers beyond the veil comes through repentance (in the symbolic form of offerings made at an alter)...and then we receive witnesses. This is the tithe. Its an exchange of spiritual currency. This is the temple ceremony. The tithes paid in the old testament were a "schoolmaster" The law of moses was a "school master". Christ in the new testament is the very "image".....the book of mormon confirms this pattern. I have never missed a tithe (cash currency) as taught by the church. I paid, net, then gross, then more than gross.......and then I experienced a witness that I was saved by grace/faith, not works.....and so, having never missed a CASH tithe ever to my knowledge (unless it was in infancy)....so I never acted in hypocrisy....when i realized my "works" were not saving....I told my bishop that I didn't believe in an "ordinance" as a work...that it was spiritual.....I stopped paying "CASH" everything, as well as a whole bunch of other things, and I received spiritual witnesses (tokens and signs)......my point is...we are saved by faith. Not works....it doesn't matter what the LDS church teaches the tithe is, its not that. The jews didn;t realize what their own ordinances pointed too...just like we don't realize what our ordinances point to. The tithe is not exchanged on this earth to open the windows of heaven.....tithes and offerings are made "through" the veil.

OK. I think I understand. I think you are saying that tithing is not about giving money or anything physical but its about giving something spiritual. Is that what you are saying?

-Finrock

Yes....the passages in Isaiah about Elijah coming, all talk about a tithe being paid. It is absolutely important to debate all the different ways the church has told us to pay tithes that may or may not contradict scripture.....it's clear, we've been taught many "different doctrines" on the subject. But then we must ask the next question.....What is the correct tithe, what did the law of moses point to when a tithe was being administered? Because the correct tithe is supposed to open the windows of heaven, and spare the whole earth from being smitten with a curse. Im speaking last days stuff....Which...if I'm correct, and my spiritual witnesses are what they are, the time is now!

There is a spiritual component to the scriptures that we read, yes. There are many levels to the scripture that we read, yes. However, we can't neglect the plain and simple definition and meaning and replace it with something more esoteric. Although there may be another level, the plain and simple level always maintains. It is about money and it is about spiritual things.

Zion must exist both on the physical and on the spiritual spectrum, else it is incomplete and not Zion. Both Spirit and Element are eternal and in order for there to be a fullness of joy, both spirit and element must be present.

In this world the poor don't get fed without work. The neglected don't get helped without money. Faith without works is dead, its frankly useless and no such thing actually exist. Faith = belief + works

-Finrock

I don’t dispute that....but it’s backwards. Administration to the poor and needy doesn’t precede that act of faith. We pray first, and then the work follows. It can’t be administered through “assignment”. Only through prayer. The man laying at the gate of the temple begging for “alms”. He prayed first, the act of him being placed their daily was a manifestation of his belief in god, the apostles come after and “raised him up”. He walked. The spirit directs the individual to prayer and then they receive administration because of the prayer. Does this sometimes overlap in church. Absolutely. But it will always happen regardless of the chUrch because God hears individuals.

There is a great LDS video on YouTube of Christ healing a blind man. I like the video because it puts it in the context of the Jewish elders who believe they are the ones who administer this access. The blind man says over and over, he told them Jesus healed them. Period. The leaders say it’s not possible because “sinners” can’t be healed. (Incorrect doctrine). The disciples even repeat this doctrine to Christ. The leaders revert back to trying to take the credit away from Jesus even saying give the credit to “god”, like the invisible god of the zoramites in the BOM. Denying Jesus in the flesh is the spirit of Antichrist.

Basically what I’m saying is....the works are spirit driven f I’m the moment you receive his spirit.

I used to give money to homeless people like crazy. Passing $20 out of my car because I wanted to follow the commandment of clothing the naked. And then, I was driving in the car with one of my friends and she said “don’t give him that money.” I asked her why.....she then told me that she had been homeless ( and she now works with homeless), and that most of who she encountered were on drugs and I was feeding the addiction, and when I looked closer I could see the man was an addict.

I have since learned what it means to “clothe the naked”. It means the same thing that the apostles said when they see the man begging for Alms outside of the temple. They said “silver and gold have i NONE, but what I do have, I give thee. “. And then, in the name of Jesus Christ they heal him.

It means that. And the spirit directs us in the moment, we won’t know beforehand. But we will be expected to act in the moment.

I want to point out. That the pattern is....we pay tithes to the apostles, they distribute the goods to the poor and needy (this is found in the New Testament and the doctrine and covenants under law of consecration”. If they are distributing goods, “why are they commanded to travel without PURSE or script.” There’s dual meaning here

Finrock. Btw. I believe in the pattern of priesthood. Laws and ordinances. Vs the fulfillment of them. I’m not dismissing any of it. It may sound like that when o talk about the spiritual version.....one is not obtained without the other. I don’t dismiss any of it.

TrueIntent wrote: ↑June 18th, 2018, 1:24 pm Finrock. Btw. I believe in the pattern of priesthood. Laws and ordinances. Vs the fulfillment of them. I’m not dismissing any of it. It may sound like that when o talk about the spiritual version.....one is not obtained without the other. I don’t dismiss any of it.

I'm reading and thinking about your posts. Thanks.

-Finrock

Yeah. I keep posting, not because I think u are ignoring me but because I get clarifying thoughts. Hope u don’t find it annoying. They all don’t need a reply.