LDS Freedom Forum

David13 wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 8:36 am

Finrock wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 8:32 am

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 6:06 pm

Finrock wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 4:28 pm

I'm pointing out fallacious reasoning.

-Finrock

Utah is a conservative state. Not Ultra Conservative.

Conservatives like and uphold the Constitution. Ultra Conservatives like the Constitution of 1833. (That was a while back)

Conservatives work with what they have. Ultra Conservatives want something they can’t have.

Utah will vote in large margin for Romney. A conservative state, a conservative candidate.

I guess you're right since you say so! What is anyone thinking? It seems the pattern here is when Arenera speaks, the thinking has been done and the truth revealed. Arenera asserts a thing and it becomes a truth.

What are we all debating for? Go home folks, Arenera has asserted a position! It is over.

-Finrock

Maybe Arenera has just posted an ugly inevitability.
dc


There may be a parallel to the incumbent inevitability thing that he posts about.

Thinker wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 10:14 pm I haven’t met Romney though some in my family have... (funny picture with one of my family who love famous Mormons, so insisted on a picture with him but she can’t hide her suspicion of him).

Finrock wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 8:46 am

David13 wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 8:36 am

Finrock wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 8:32 am

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 6:06 pm

Utah is a conservative state. Not Ultra Conservative.

Conservatives like and uphold the Constitution. Ultra Conservatives like the Constitution of 1833. (That was a while back)

Conservatives work with what they have. Ultra Conservatives want something they can’t have.

Utah will vote in large margin for Romney. A conservative state, a conservative candidate.

I guess you're right since you say so! What is anyone thinking? It seems the pattern here is when Arenera speaks, the thinking has been done and the truth revealed. Arenera asserts a thing and it becomes a truth.

What are we all debating for? Go home folks, Arenera has asserted a position! It is over.

-Finrock

Maybe Arenera has just posted an ugly inevitability.
dc


There may be a parallel to the incumbent inevitability thing that he posts about.

Maybe.

Romney has, almost by default, received the support of Mormons just because he is Mormon. Studies have shown that most people don't vote based on substance. They vote for other reasons, like they liked the candidates commercial, or he shares their religion, or they are Republican/Democrat...all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with how the candidate would actually attempt to govern, their record, etc. Mormons are not an exception. That Romney wins the support of Utahns does not make him a conservative, doesn't make him a good candidate, etc.

I can bet you that most Utahns look at Romney, see he is Mormon, see that he used to be a bishop, Stake President, and that is enough. It doesn't matter what he thinks, what his policies are, what he has actually done in government, what his record is, nothing. He is Mormon, he was a bishop/stake president, therefore, he is awesome! This reality is sad and unfortunate.

-Finrock

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 11:43 am

Finrock wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 9:23 am Winning an election, being popular, or having support of individuals does not mean that Romney is conservative, that his policies are good, or that he is a good man. Crooked, evil, and corrupt men and women win all of the time. It means nothing except that they were able to convince, persuade, lie, cheat, or manipulate enough people or the system in order to gain the victory in the election.

In other words, Mitt Romney can be a lousy person, have really lousy ideas, and still win in Utah. Very often people don't actually vote on the substance, they vote for other reasons. Many Mormons won't even bat an eye at Romney's ideas simply because he is a Mormon. They have prejudged him as good, as conservative, etc. because he is a member of the Church.

Your logic is fallacious and your arguments aren't really addressing the substance of your opponent's posts.

-Finrock

Aren't you the supporter of being nice? Look at all the negative Romney posts, what does that tell you?

Lack of substance = name calling. Even Romney's opposition do the name calling. Romney gives substance. Romney has major accomplishments in his life. He has served as a Stake President, Bishop, and run for President of the United States.

Romney delivers.

Arenera wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 8:50 am He is awesome and it is fortunate that he is a Mormon, and Utahns appreciate it.

Finrock wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 8:46 am

David13 wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 8:36 am

Finrock wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 8:32 am

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 6:06 pm

Utah is a conservative state. Not Ultra Conservative.

Conservatives like and uphold the Constitution. Ultra Conservatives like the Constitution of 1833. (That was a while back)

Conservatives work with what they have. Ultra Conservatives want something they can’t have.

Utah will vote in large margin for Romney. A conservative state, a conservative candidate.

I guess you're right since you say so! What is anyone thinking? It seems the pattern here is when Arenera speaks, the thinking has been done and the truth revealed. Arenera asserts a thing and it becomes a truth.

What are we all debating for? Go home folks, Arenera has asserted a position! It is over.

-Finrock

Maybe Arenera has just posted an ugly inevitability.
dc


There may be a parallel to the incumbent inevitability thing that he posts about.

Maybe.

Romney has, almost by default, received the support of Mormons just because he is Mormon. Studies have shown that most people don't vote based on substance. They vote for other reasons, like they liked the candidates commercial, or he shares their religion, or they are Republican/Democrat...all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with how the candidate would actually attempt to govern, their record, etc. Mormons are not an exception. That Romney wins the support of Utahns does not, by this principle alone, make him a conservative, doesn't make him a good candidate, etc.

I can bet you that most Utahns look at Romney, see he is Mormon, see that he used to be a bishop, Stake President, and that is enough. It doesn't matter what he thinks, what his policies are, what he has actually done in government, what his record is, nothing. He is Mormon, he was a bishop/stake president, therefore, he is awesome! This reality is sad and unfortunate.

-Finrock

EDIT: Let me just add that its the same phenomenon that we see when people changes their views or either believe or don't believe in something simply by virtue of the fact that a "prophet" either believes or doesn't believe in it. This mentally is built in to Mormon culture.

Finrock wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 8:46 amRomney has, almost by default, received the support of Mormons just because he is Mormon. Studies have shown that most people don't vote based on substance. They vote for other reasons, like they liked the candidates commercial, or he shares their religion, or they are Republican/Democrat...all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with how the candidate would actually attempt to govern, their record, etc. Mormons are not an exception.

EmmaLee wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 12:40 pm

Finrock wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 8:46 amRomney has, almost by default, received the support of Mormons just because he is Mormon. Studies have shown that most people don't vote based on substance. They vote for other reasons, like they liked the candidates commercial, or he shares their religion, or they are Republican/Democrat...all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with how the candidate would actually attempt to govern, their record, etc. Mormons are not an exception.

There is a small (thankfully) cadre of women in the Church here in my town that voted for Romney for president for the sole reason that he's "so good looking". These are women over 50, all married, all active recommend holders, the pillars of the Church here (along with their stake president and bishop husbands) - and they were not shy in the least about proclaiming why they were voting for him. When he was running for president, he came to our town and gave a 'fireside' in the home of one of these women - all the other swooning 'sisters' attended, too, as did my husband and I. It was just plain gross to watch these women fawn and drool over him, a couple of them literally blushing when meeting him, right in front of their husbands - made me physically ill (Romney lapped it up though - seemed to really be enjoying himself). We left without even bothering to shake his hand. The whole thing was sickening.

EmmaLee wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 12:40 pm

Finrock wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 8:46 amRomney has, almost by default, received the support of Mormons just because he is Mormon. Studies have shown that most people don't vote based on substance. They vote for other reasons, like they liked the candidates commercial, or he shares their religion, or they are Republican/Democrat...all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with how the candidate would actually attempt to govern, their record, etc. Mormons are not an exception.

There is a small (thankfully) cadre of women in the Church here in my town that voted for Romney for president for the sole reason that he's "so good looking". These are women over 50, all married, all active recommend holders, the pillars of the Church here (along with their stake president and bishop husbands) - and they were not shy in the least about proclaiming why they were voting for him. When he was running for president, he came to our town and gave a 'fireside' in the home of one of these women - all the other swooning 'sisters' attended, too, as did my husband and I. It was just plain gross to watch these women fawn and drool over him, a couple of them literally blushing when meeting him, right in front of their husbands - made me physically ill (Romney lapped it up though - seemed to really be enjoying himself). We left without even bothering to shake his hand. The whole thing was sickening.

Arenera wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 1:38 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 12:40 pm

Finrock wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 8:46 amRomney has, almost by default, received the support of Mormons just because he is Mormon. Studies have shown that most people don't vote based on substance. They vote for other reasons, like they liked the candidates commercial, or he shares their religion, or they are Republican/Democrat...all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with how the candidate would actually attempt to govern, their record, etc. Mormons are not an exception.

There is a small (thankfully) cadre of women in the Church here in my town that voted for Romney for president for the sole reason that he's "so good looking". These are women over 50, all married, all active recommend holders, the pillars of the Church here (along with their stake president and bishop husbands) - and they were not shy in the least about proclaiming why they were voting for him. When he was running for president, he came to our town and gave a 'fireside' in the home of one of these women - all the other swooning 'sisters' attended, too, as did my husband and I. It was just plain gross to watch these women fawn and drool over him, a couple of them literally blushing when meeting him, right in front of their husbands - made me physically ill (Romney lapped it up though - seemed to really be enjoying himself). We left without even bothering to shake his hand. The whole thing was sickening.

I can’t believe you didn’t shake his hand!