LDS Freedom Forum

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 8:18 am

mirkwood wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 7:38 am

Arenera wrote: ↑June 13th, 2018, 10:49 pm

mirkwood wrote: ↑June 13th, 2018, 10:47 pm Mike Kennedy has lived in Utah for 28 years.

Mitt Romney has paid his taxes in Utah for 2 years (I guess that makes him a resident of Utah).

Hmmmm....I wonder who really has an idea of what is best for Utah.

Romney has a great background. Utahns will show who has the best idea.

Yea, if you are liberal.

Mitt Romney has demonstrated to many voters that he does not understand the design and will of God concerning the political liberty of His children.

68%+ of Utahns will show that he is a conservative that can have immediate impact in the US Senate.

Winning an election, being popular, or having support of individuals does not mean that Romney is conservative, that his policies are good, or that he is a good man. Crooked, evil, and corrupt men and women win all of the time. It means nothing except that they were able to convince, persuade, lie, cheat, or manipulate enough people or the system in order to gain the victory in the election.

In other words, Mitt Romney can be a lousy person, have really lousy ideas, and still win in Utah. Very often people don't actually vote on the substance, they vote for other reasons. Many Mormons won't even bat an eye at Romney's ideas simply because he is a Mormon. They have prejudged him as good, as conservative, etc. because he is a member of the Church.

Your logic is fallacious and your arguments aren't really addressing the substance of your opponent's posts.

-Finrock

I AM wrote: ↑June 13th, 2018, 9:53 am I already posted this but it's also about Mitt Romney.
you gotta see how Romney acts.

Mitt Romney says church leaders are pro choice?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6506Bc1BHls

incredible.

and so so many members wanted him to be president, why ,
just because he's a Mormon. ridiculous.

Years ago I found out about Romney when he shook hands with the devil.

beware of the evils of Monsanto
again the power of "secret combinations"



How Mitt Romney Helped Monsanto Take Over the World

www.motherjones.com/food/2012/09/romney-monsanto-bain/


Mitt Romney, Monsanto Man

www.thenation.com/article/mitt-romney-monsanto-man/


Monsanto The Future of Food 2004

www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbMUUPJFy40


Food Inc.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KpaKi3IOJs

Mind blowing that he was ever a stake President and Bishop. He should be in prison for being the Monsanto man.

The over-the-top, misrepresentations of Mitt Romney are what really bother me. Such as this OP, of course Romney didn't deny a 'key' tenet of his faith, but that won't stop some from accusing him of it.

He's not the devil incarnate, he's just a moderate politician who aligns most often with Republican views. Many Utahns are moderates, that's one reason they like him, no wonder they'll vote for him.

Utahns, like most American voters also are swayed heavily by name recognition and since he ran for Pres. and headed up the Winter Olympics years ago, he's has that going for him.

AI2.0 wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 10:47 am . . . . . he's just a moderate politician who aligns most often with Republican views. Many Utahns are moderates, that's one reason they like him, no wonder they'll vote for him.

Utahns, like most American voters also are swayed heavily by name recognition and since he ran for Pres. and headed up the Winter Olympics years ago, he's has that going for him.

And the fundamental problem with this, is that most Utahn's have little or no awareness of the very real push for global control (nor does Romney, unless he's complicit in this push), which is already responsible for undermining great swaths of our Constitution.

Trump has at least raised awareness about this most important subject, so hopefully the knowledge will start trickling down to our population . . . . but unfortunatelly, only for those who actually hear his speeches. The MSM, Deseret news, etc., virtually ignore the subject.

Finrock wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 9:23 am Winning an election, being popular, or having support of individuals does not mean that Romney is conservative, that his policies are good, or that he is a good man. Crooked, evil, and corrupt men and women win all of the time. It means nothing except that they were able to convince, persuade, lie, cheat, or manipulate enough people or the system in order to gain the victory in the election.

In other words, Mitt Romney can be a lousy person, have really lousy ideas, and still win in Utah. Very often people don't actually vote on the substance, they vote for other reasons. Many Mormons won't even bat an eye at Romney's ideas simply because he is a Mormon. They have prejudged him as good, as conservative, etc. because he is a member of the Church.

Your logic is fallacious and your arguments aren't really addressing the substance of your opponent's posts.

-Finrock

Aren't you the supporter of being nice? Look at all the negative Romney posts, what does that tell you?

Lack of substance = name calling. Even Romney's opposition do the name calling. Romney gives substance. Romney has major accomplishments in his life. He has served as a Stake President, Bishop, and run for President of the United States.

Romney delivers.

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 11:43 am

Finrock wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 9:23 am Winning an election, being popular, or having support of individuals does not mean that Romney is conservative, that his policies are good, or that he is a good man. Crooked, evil, and corrupt men and women win all of the time. It means nothing except that they were able to convince, persuade, lie, cheat, or manipulate enough people or the system in order to gain the victory in the election.

In other words, Mitt Romney can be a lousy person, have really lousy ideas, and still win in Utah. Very often people don't actually vote on the substance, they vote for other reasons. Many Mormons won't even bat an eye at Romney's ideas simply because he is a Mormon. They have prejudged him as good, as conservative, etc. because he is a member of the Church.

Your logic is fallacious and your arguments aren't really addressing the substance of your opponent's posts.

-Finrock

Aren't you the supporter of being nice?

Of course, but this isn't relevant.

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 11:43 amLook at all the negative Romney posts, what does that tell you?

Many people disagree with Romney, his ideas, his policies, politics, principles, etc.

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 11:43 amLack of substance = name calling.

True.

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 11:43 amEven Romney's opposition do the name calling. Romney gives substance. Romney has major accomplishments in his life. He has served as a Stake President, Bishop, and run for President of the United States.

Romney delivers.

Thanks for sharing your beliefs. Clearly others disagree. The logic and reasoning that I was addressing in your posts that I quoted still fails and you are still not addressing the substance of your opponents (on this thread) posts.

-Finrock

Finrock wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 12:08 pm

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 11:43 am

Finrock wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 9:23 am Winning an election, being popular, or having support of individuals does not mean that Romney is conservative, that his policies are good, or that he is a good man. Crooked, evil, and corrupt men and women win all of the time. It means nothing except that they were able to convince, persuade, lie, cheat, or manipulate enough people or the system in order to gain the victory in the election.

In other words, Mitt Romney can be a lousy person, have really lousy ideas, and still win in Utah. Very often people don't actually vote on the substance, they vote for other reasons. Many Mormons won't even bat an eye at Romney's ideas simply because he is a Mormon. They have prejudged him as good, as conservative, etc. because he is a member of the Church.

Your logic is fallacious and your arguments aren't really addressing the substance of your opponent's posts.

-Finrock

Aren't you the supporter of being nice?

Of course, but this isn't relevant.

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 11:43 amLook at all the negative Romney posts, what does that tell you?

Many people disagree with Romney, his ideas, his policies, politics, principles, etc.

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 11:43 amLack of substance = name calling.

True.

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 11:43 amEven Romney's opposition do the name calling. Romney gives substance. Romney has major accomplishments in his life. He has served as a Stake President, Bishop, and run for President of the United States.

Romney delivers.

Thanks for sharing your beliefs. Clearly others disagree. The logic and reasoning that I was addressing in your posts that I quoted still fails and you are still not addressing the substance of your opponents (on this thread) posts.

-Finrock

What is that substance?

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 12:19 pm

Finrock wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 12:08 pm

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 11:43 am

Finrock wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 9:23 am Winning an election, being popular, or having support of individuals does not mean that Romney is conservative, that his policies are good, or that he is a good man. Crooked, evil, and corrupt men and women win all of the time. It means nothing except that they were able to convince, persuade, lie, cheat, or manipulate enough people or the system in order to gain the victory in the election.

In other words, Mitt Romney can be a lousy person, have really lousy ideas, and still win in Utah. Very often people don't actually vote on the substance, they vote for other reasons. Many Mormons won't even bat an eye at Romney's ideas simply because he is a Mormon. They have prejudged him as good, as conservative, etc. because he is a member of the Church.

Your logic is fallacious and your arguments aren't really addressing the substance of your opponent's posts.

-Finrock

Aren't you the supporter of being nice?

Of course, but this isn't relevant.

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 11:43 amLook at all the negative Romney posts, what does that tell you?

Many people disagree with Romney, his ideas, his policies, politics, principles, etc.

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 11:43 amLack of substance = name calling.

True.

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 11:43 amEven Romney's opposition do the name calling. Romney gives substance. Romney has major accomplishments in his life. He has served as a Stake President, Bishop, and run for President of the United States.

Romney delivers.

Thanks for sharing your beliefs. Clearly others disagree. The logic and reasoning that I was addressing in your posts that I quoted still fails and you are still not addressing the substance of your opponents (on this thread) posts.

-Finrock

What is that substance?

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=48609#p861140

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=48609#p861113

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=48609#p861202

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=48609#p861389

-Finrock

Finrock wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 1:11 pm

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 12:19 pm

Finrock wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 12:08 pm

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 11:43 am

Aren't you the supporter of being nice?

Of course, but this isn't relevant.

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 11:43 amLook at all the negative Romney posts, what does that tell you?

Many people disagree with Romney, his ideas, his policies, politics, principles, etc.

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 11:43 amLack of substance = name calling.

True.

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 11:43 amEven Romney's opposition do the name calling. Romney gives substance. Romney has major accomplishments in his life. He has served as a Stake President, Bishop, and run for President of the United States.

Romney delivers.

Thanks for sharing your beliefs. Clearly others disagree. The logic and reasoning that I was addressing in your posts that I quoted still fails and you are still not addressing the substance of your opponents (on this thread) posts.

-Finrock

What is that substance?

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=48609#p861140

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=48609#p861113

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=48609#p861202

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=48609#p861389

-Finrock

No substance, just old regurgitated anti Romney. People can vote for whoever they like, for whatever reason they like.

Most likely Romney will get 65%+ of the vote. That is substance. Just like the Warriors taking the Cavaliers in 4.

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 1:25 pm

Finrock wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 1:11 pm

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 12:19 pm

Finrock wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 12:08 pm

Of course, but this isn't relevant.



Many people disagree with Romney, his ideas, his policies, politics, principles, etc.



True.



Thanks for sharing your beliefs. Clearly others disagree. The logic and reasoning that I was addressing in your posts that I quoted still fails and you are still not addressing the substance of your opponents (on this thread) posts.

-Finrock

What is that substance?

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=48609#p861140

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=48609#p861113

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=48609#p861202

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=48609#p861389

-Finrock

No substance, just old regurgitated anti Romney.

If you say so.

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 1:25 pmPeople can vote for whoever they like, for whatever reason they like.

Yeah.

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 1:25 pmMost likely Romney will get 65%+ of the vote. That is substance. Just like the Warriors taking the Cavaliers in 4.

Maybe. However, him winning doesn't make him a conservative, doesn't mean he has good policies, doesn't mean he is a good person, doesn't mean that he has good principles, does't mean he is good for Utah or good for the country, etc. your equivocation not withstanding.

-Finrock

Fin, can you list some of the reasons why you think Mitt Romney is: not a conservative, does not support good policies, is not a good person, &/or does not have good principles? They can be brief/summary, not a treatise. I'm genuinely curious how you've come to those conclusions - if that's what you're saying. Thanks.

Jesef wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 2:47 pm Fin, can you list some of the reasons why you think Mitt Romney is: not a conservative, does not support good policies, is not a good person, &/or does not have good principles? They can be brief/summary, not a treatise. I'm genuinely curious how you've come to those conclusions - if that's what you're saying. Thanks.

I haven't come to those conclusions per se. It was argued at one point that a large percentage of Utahns will show that Romney is a conservative. I'm saying this is fallacious reasoning. Many Mormons vote for Romney just because he is a Mormon. They don't care what his policies are, for instance.

-Finrock

So you're making a hypothetical argument?

Jesef wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 4:01 pm So you're making a hypothetical argument?

I'm pointing out fallacious reasoning.

I think Romney is an OK guy. If I were to label him I'd label him as a moderate. I don't believe he is a Constitutionalist. I also don't think he appreciates the founding ideas of our country. I think he is a modern man with modern ambitions and modern intuitions. I don't think he is the best candidate there is but I also don't think he is the worst or even close to being the worst. If he were elected president I would be OK with it and I believe he would probably accomplish some really good things. His record does have some problematic parts for me. He has kinda waffled on traditionally conservative ideas like abortion, small/limited government, 2nd amendment, gay rights, and some other things too that I can't think of right now off the top of my head.

I like our government to be Constitutionally bound and to act within those bounds. I like smaller/limited government. I am more libertarian leaning than I lean republican or democrat, although I don't affiliate with any party.

-Finrock

Arenera wrote: ↑June 13th, 2018, 3:11 pm

larsenb wrote: ↑June 13th, 2018, 1:58 pm

Arenera wrote: ↑June 13th, 2018, 9:55 am Romney will win the republican primary by a wide margin. He will then win the general election by a wide margin.

Probably, but a sad day for Utah and the nation. He recently came out in support of TPP, a clearly globalist trade agreement w/anti-Constitutional provisions. My guess is he will be poised to take on John McCain's mantle.

Romney wears his own mantle. Great family. Served as a Stake President, Bishop. Successful in his career. If you love free trade, you love Romney.

2012 results should be similar for 2018. 66% for Hatch. Sounds good for Romney. Why can't the Constitution and others parties get more?

a senate 2012.png

Why can't the other parties get more? We have fallen so far that freedom to Americans is the choice between 38 brands of dish soap, but we can only have 2 candidates that are electable.

Finrock wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 4:28 pm

Jesef wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 4:01 pm So you're making a hypothetical argument?

I'm pointing out fallacious reasoning.

-Finrock

Utah is a conservative state. Not Ultra Conservative.

Conservatives like and uphold the Constitution. Ultra Conservatives like the Constitution of 1833. (That was a while back)

Conservatives work with what they have. Ultra Conservatives want something they can’t have.

Utah will vote in large margin for Romney. A conservative state, a conservative candidate.

I AM wrote: ↑June 13th, 2018, 9:53 am I already posted this but it's also about Mitt Romney.
you gotta see how Romney acts.

Mitt Romney says church leaders are pro choice?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6506Bc1BHls

incredible.

and so so many members wanted him to be president, why ,
just because he's a Mormon. ridiculous.

Years ago I found out about Romney when he shook hands with the devil.

beware of the evils of Monsanto
again the power of "secret combinations"



How Mitt Romney Helped Monsanto Take Over the World

www.motherjones.com/food/2012/09/romney-monsanto-bain/


Mitt Romney, Monsanto Man

www.thenation.com/article/mitt-romney-monsanto-man/


Monsanto The Future of Food 2004

www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbMUUPJFy40


Food Inc.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KpaKi3IOJs

Great post.
Just wanted to add not to forget Romney's heavy investment in and business relationship with Stericycle, the nation's #1 company for aborted baby parts removal. Unbelievable. Don't tell me... bringing information to light like this and having a negative opinion about Mitt makes me a Romney hater and apostate, right?

Col. Flagg wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 6:28 pm

I AM wrote: ↑June 13th, 2018, 9:53 am I already posted this but it's also about Mitt Romney.
you gotta see how Romney acts.

Mitt Romney says church leaders are pro choice?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6506Bc1BHls

incredible.

and so so many members wanted him to be president, why ,
just because he's a Mormon. ridiculous.

Years ago I found out about Romney when he shook hands with the devil.

beware of the evils of Monsanto
again the power of "secret combinations"



How Mitt Romney Helped Monsanto Take Over the World

www.motherjones.com/food/2012/09/romney-monsanto-bain/


Mitt Romney, Monsanto Man

www.thenation.com/article/mitt-romney-monsanto-man/


Monsanto The Future of Food 2004

www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbMUUPJFy40


Food Inc.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KpaKi3IOJs

Great post.
Just wanted to add not to forget Romney's heavy investment in and business relationship with Stericycle, the nation's #1 company for aborted baby parts removal. Unbelievable. Don't tell me... bringing information to light like this and having a negative opinion about Mitt makes me a Romney hater and apostate, right?

Just in the small minority. A conservative will let you vote how you like. An Ultra Conservative will take away your second estate if you don’t agree with them.

I haven’t met Romney though some in my family have... (funny picture with one of my family who love famous Mormons, so insisted on a picture with him but she can’t hide her suspicion of him).

I don’t trust Romney mainly because he has flip flopped http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... lip-flops/, and he helped begin the homosexual agenda bs we’re suffering through now. http://massresistance.org/docs/marriage/romney/

I’ll look more into Kennedy. https://ballotpedia.org/Mike_Kennedy_(Utah)

Governor Herbert received 45% of votes in the Republican Utah convention in 2016. He had a landslide win in the Republican Primary.

Mitt Romney received 49%.

Let's see how the Republican Senate Primary does...

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 6:06 pm

Finrock wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 4:28 pm

Jesef wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 4:01 pm So you're making a hypothetical argument?

I'm pointing out fallacious reasoning.

-Finrock

Utah is a conservative state. Not Ultra Conservative.

Conservatives like and uphold the Constitution. Ultra Conservatives like the Constitution of 1833. (That was a while back)

Conservatives work with what they have. Ultra Conservatives want something they can’t have.

Utah will vote in large margin for Romney. A conservative state, a conservative candidate.

I guess you're right since you say so! What is anyone thinking? It seems the pattern here is when Arenera speaks, the thinking has been done and the truth revealed. Arenera asserts a thing and it becomes a truth.

What are we all debating for? Go home folks, Arenera has asserted a position! It is over.

-Finrock

Finrock wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 8:32 am

Arenera wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 6:06 pm

Finrock wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 4:28 pm

Jesef wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 4:01 pm So you're making a hypothetical argument?

I'm pointing out fallacious reasoning.

-Finrock

Utah is a conservative state. Not Ultra Conservative.

Conservatives like and uphold the Constitution. Ultra Conservatives like the Constitution of 1833. (That was a while back)

Conservatives work with what they have. Ultra Conservatives want something they can’t have.

Utah will vote in large margin for Romney. A conservative state, a conservative candidate.

I guess you're right since you say so! What is anyone thinking? It seems the pattern here is when Arenera speaks, the thinking has been done and the truth revealed. Arenera asserts a thing and it becomes a truth.

What are we all debating for? Go home folks, Arenera has asserted a position! It is over.

-Finrock

Maybe Arenera has just posted an ugly inevitability.
dc


There may be a parallel to the incumbent inevitability thing that he posts about.

Arenera would do well to explore the reasons why some Americans prefer the Constitution of 1833 over the Constitution of today.