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The rich have their reward.
Posted: June 11th, 2018, 2:22 pm
by Craig Johnson
I would like to create a scripture in Matthew 6 and ask for input to illuminate my understanding of what I am trying to say.
Let us say that Matthew 6:35 reads like this: "Verily I say unto you that ye be not like unto the unwise rich who waste their money in riotous or selfish living for they have their reward, but if ye are so blessed with great riches you shall spend your days diligently and busily blessing the lives of the poor and needy, otherwise your riches shall canker your souls and it would have been better if you had been poor."
A relative of mine recently shared Steve Jobs final words with me, I was surprised at how foolish he admitted that he had been. And now I find out that the words I read were a bogus treatise. People are so weird.
Re: The rich have their reward.
Posted: June 12th, 2018, 5:13 am
by BeNotDeceived
Whenever I see someone driving an overpriced car, I think to myself, how many starving people could you have fed?
Re: The rich have their reward.
Posted: June 12th, 2018, 10:06 am
by ajax
BeNotDeceived wrote: ↑June 12th, 2018, 5:13 am
Whenever I see someone driving an overpriced car, I think to myself, how many starving people could you have fed?
What if this naughty person driving the car employs people? 10s? 100s? 1000s? Thus sustaining them and their families?
What if this naughty person driving the car produces goods and services that people need?
What if this naughty person driving the car is renting the car? or borrowing the car? or transferring it from one location to another as part of his employment?
What if the naughty person driving the car is no more naughty than the person coming to uneducated conclusions and judgments about said person?
Why even think about what others have at all?
Re: The rich have their reward.
Posted: June 12th, 2018, 7:08 pm
by Jesef
Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand - you can even watch the movies now - they're terrible, but anyways. It's the opposite paradigm to welfare.
Re: The rich have their reward.
Posted: June 12th, 2018, 7:22 pm
by Craig Johnson
ajax wrote: ↑June 12th, 2018, 10:06 am
BeNotDeceived wrote: ↑June 12th, 2018, 5:13 am
Whenever I see someone driving an overpriced car, I think to myself, how many starving people could you have fed?
What if this naughty person driving the car employs people? 10s? 100s? 1000s? Thus sustaining them and their families?
What if this naughty person driving the car produces goods and services that people need?
What if this naughty person driving the car is renting the car? or borrowing the car? or transferring it from one location to another as part of his employment?
What if the naughty person driving the car is no more naughty than the person coming to uneducated conclusions and judgments about said person?
Why even think about what others have at all?
Well said. What if this naughty person actually goes out of their way to bless those in need? What they are driving could be meaningless.
Re: The rich have their reward.
Posted: June 12th, 2018, 7:23 pm
by Craig Johnson
Jesef wrote: ↑June 12th, 2018, 7:08 pm
Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand - you can even watch the movies now - they're terrible, but anyways. It's the opposite paradigm to welfare.
I have those and wanted to watch them but could not get past the first half hour due to how horrible it is. Are they worth watching?
Re: The rich have their reward.
Posted: June 12th, 2018, 7:25 pm
by Craig Johnson
BeNotDeceived wrote: ↑June 12th, 2018, 5:13 am
Whenever I see someone driving an overpriced car, I think to myself, how many starving people could you have fed?
I tend to think bad thoughts about people who drive BMWs, until I remember that my son drives a BMW. Arrgh!
Re: The rich have their reward.
Posted: June 12th, 2018, 10:22 pm
by brianj
Some people, usually people without a large surplus of money, look at luxury purchases by those with more wealth and respond with indignation over the idea that the wealthy person is spending that money on themselves. The person who pays $400 for a used car looks down on the person who pays $20,000 for a new car, who looks down on the person who spend $50,000 for a luxury car. The person who can't afford to fly somewhere on vacation looks down at the people who fly to Orlando or Honolulu, some of the people flying economy look down on the people in business, and some of the people in business class look down on the people in chartered jets. And one day the people who are living frugally, wisely investing their surplus income to prepare for retirement, will be looked down at by the people who are living at or beyond their means today.
The truth is that none of use live an ascetic lifestyle while giving away all of the money we don't need to survive. Here's something I know about every single person on this board: you spent money on internet access and a device to get on this board instead of using that money to feed a starving person. And when the day comes that we are asked to participate in a united order, having all things in common and being equal, if I haven't had the opportunity to do things that have been a deep desire of mine for most of my life I will have a very difficult time accepting this calling because of what I have been denied.
I sometimes have this image in my head of finally having the money to... to do something I won't name, but I know a lot of members of this board have mentioned having done so almost flippantly. When that day comes I envision a financial crisis in my region and my Bishop asking me to forego this lifelong dream and donating my money to people who have done these things but now don't have the money they need to survive. I react with hurt, bitterness, and anger. I want to tell the Bishop to arrange a meeting with those people so they can tell me what a wonderful time they had in this activity, how they deserve it and they should have done it instead of saving the money, and why they deserve it but I don't.
I really hope I am never called to endure this scenario because I know what will happen: I will lose. I have made covenants in a temple that I have to obey, which mean that I have to give up the money instead of fulfilling my dream, so I don't get that dream. But I give up the money reluctantly, angrily, out of a sense of compulsion and the scriptures seem to make it very clear that there's no blessing if you don't give cheerfully.
Re: The rich have their reward.
Posted: June 13th, 2018, 7:44 am
by Craig Johnson
brianj wrote: ↑June 12th, 2018, 10:22 pm
Some people, usually people without a large surplus of money, look at luxury purchases by those with more wealth and respond with indignation over the idea that the wealthy person is spending that money on themselves. The person who pays $400 for a used car looks down on the person who pays $20,000 for a new car, who looks down on the person who spend $50,000 for a luxury car. The person who can't afford to fly somewhere on vacation looks down at the people who fly to Orlando or Honolulu, some of the people flying economy look down on the people in business, and some of the people in business class look down on the people in chartered jets. And one day the people who are living frugally, wisely investing their surplus income to prepare for retirement, will be looked down at by the people who are living at or beyond their means today.
The truth is that none of use live an ascetic lifestyle while giving away all of the money we don't need to survive. Here's something I know about every single person on this board: you spent money on internet access and a device to get on this board instead of using that money to feed a starving person. And when the day comes that we are asked to participate in a united order, having all things in common and being equal, if I haven't had the opportunity to do things that have been a deep desire of mine for most of my life I will have a very difficult time accepting this calling because of what I have been denied.
I sometimes have this image in my head of finally having the money to... to do something I won't name, but I know a lot of members of this board have mentioned having done so almost flippantly. When that day comes I envision a financial crisis in my region and my Bishop asking me to forego this lifelong dream and donating my money to people who have done these things but now don't have the money they need to survive. I react with hurt, bitterness, and anger. I want to tell the Bishop to arrange a meeting with those people so they can tell me what a wonderful time they had in this activity, how they deserve it and they should have done it instead of saving the money, and why they deserve it but I don't.
I really hope I am never called to endure this scenario because I know what will happen: I will lose. I have made covenants in a temple that I have to obey, which mean that I have to give up the money instead of fulfilling my dream, so I don't get that dream. But I give up the money reluctantly, angrily, out of a sense of compulsion and the scriptures seem to make it very clear that there's no blessing if you don't give cheerfully.
I would like to rent one of those luxury yachts, like say just an 80 footer, for a month on a big lake like Lake Chelan or maybe Priest Lake. If I could afford to buy one I wouldn't because the maintenance is ridiculous even for the super-wealthy. I have a 14 foot aluminum boat that is about 50 years old and I have more fun on that with my 6hp O/B than I can say. Being a waterman, to me, is just the coolest thing ever. I will never be able to afford a luxury yacht rental and if my boat had not cost $400 and I had not saved up for my O/B I still would not be on the water except maybe in a small canoe or a cheap kayak.
When people have loads of cash and I mean in the tens of millions or better and they do foolish things with it (actually with any amount!) I tend to want to strangle them. I don't know many actual rich people. One of my wife's friends at one point was making about $600,000.00 per year as a Chiropractor and a Real Estate Developer living in Phoenix. At that level I envision myself as doing my business and seeking people to bless. At my level I seek people to bless, but am not able to do much in the way of money outlay.
Re: The rich have their reward.
Posted: June 13th, 2018, 4:05 pm
by creator
ajax wrote: ↑June 12th, 2018, 10:06 am
BeNotDeceived wrote: ↑June 12th, 2018, 5:13 am
Whenever I see someone driving an overpriced car, I think to myself, how many starving people could you have fed?
What if this naughty person driving the car employs people? 10s? 100s? 1000s? Thus sustaining them and their families?
What if this naughty person driving the car produces goods and services that people need?...
And also consider how many people were employed to create that overpriced car.
And the fact that the features we have today in the cheaper cars maybe only exist because of the people who buy overpriced cars.
At least they aren't hording money and are instead putting the money back into the economy.
Re: The rich have their reward.
Posted: June 13th, 2018, 4:10 pm
by Jesef
BrianM, I am so jealous of your avatar (One Punch Man) - love it! Best Anime ever!
Re: The rich have their reward.
Posted: June 13th, 2018, 4:24 pm
by Col. Flagg
It all depends upon one's heart and since only God knows our hearts, how can we judge others? It is possible to judge based on actions but only God knows what's inside someone's heart and soul. Personally, I could never live rich because money matters little to me and I would simply look to help others in need with my wealth (if I had any). I can't tell you how many people I know and have known who get in over their heads with mortgages, wants, toys, etc. and then have the audacity to ask their Bishop for help paying necessary living expenses.
Re: The rich have their reward.
Posted: June 13th, 2018, 4:33 pm
by creator
Jesef wrote: ↑June 13th, 2018, 4:10 pm
BrianM, I am so jealous of your avatar (One Punch Man) - love it! Best Anime ever!
Yes, it is awesome.
Re: The rich have their reward.
Posted: June 13th, 2018, 4:35 pm
by Craig Johnson
Col. Flagg wrote: ↑June 13th, 2018, 4:24 pm
It all depends upon one's heart and since only God knows our hearts, how can we judge others? It is possible to judge based on actions but only God knows what's inside someone's heart and soul. Personally, I could never live rich because money matters little to me and I would simply look to help others in need with my wealth (if I had any). I can't tell you how many people I know and have known who get in over their heads with mortgages, wants, toys, etc. and then have the audacity to ask their Bishop for help paying necessary living expenses.
Or they mooch off relatives or friends when they could have made their own way if they had acted responsibly. When bad things happen to people innocently I have no problem with helping them, but when they bring it on themselves due to their irresponsible behavior it is better to let them suffer the consequences unless it will kill them.
Re: The rich have their reward.
Posted: June 13th, 2018, 10:45 pm
by brianj
Craig Johnson wrote: ↑June 13th, 2018, 7:44 am
I would like to rent one of those luxury yachts, like say just an 80 footer, for a month on a big lake like Lake Chelan or maybe Priest Lake. If I could afford to buy one I wouldn't because the maintenance is ridiculous even for the super-wealthy. I have a 14 foot aluminum boat that is about 50 years old and I have more fun on that with my 6hp O/B than I can say. Being a waterman, to me, is just the coolest thing ever. I will never be able to afford a luxury yacht rental and if my boat had not cost $400 and I had not saved up for my O/B I still would not be on the water except maybe in a small canoe or a cheap kayak.
When people have loads of cash and I mean in the tens of millions or better and they do foolish things with it (actually with any amount!) I tend to want to strangle them. I don't know many actual rich people. One of my wife's friends at one point was making about $600,000.00 per year as a Chiropractor and a Real Estate Developer living in Phoenix. At that level I envision myself as doing my business and seeking people to bless. At my level I seek people to bless, but am not able to do much in the way of money outlay.
Chelan is way too small for me. I have seen it and Lake Powell, very popular boating destinations, and thought "it's so small!"
Driving across Lake Pontchartrain on the causeway, if it's a little bit hazy you won't be able to see either shore from the middle of the lake. Riding the Catalina Ferry from San Pedro, CA to Catalina Island I could see land the entire way, but when starting out there's nothing but ocean off the bow.
While it's not anywhere near my first choice, you can buy a decent Catalina 30 for around $10,000. Put that much into equipping it and you'll have a boat that can sail around the world.
I've never had an interest in a luxury yacht. That's just a private cruise ship. I would rather be at the helm, or let a windvane do the steering while I sit back in the cockpit with a good book.