LDS Freedom Forum

And in the fifty and first year of the reign of the judges there was peace also, save it were the pride which began to enter into the church—not into the church of God, but into the hearts of the people who professed to belong to the church of God— (Helaman 3:33)

This verse indicates that there are members of the Church who, in God's view, don't really belong to his church. In the scriptures, the Lord does not define membership in his church based upon whether one's name is on the roles. Rather, he defines membership based upon whether one's heart is contrite, 'Behold, this is my doctrine-whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church. Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church' (D&C 10:67-68).

Unfortunately, because pride is so prevalent, there are those today who are professing to belong rather than truly belonging to the Lord. They are like the prideful at the last day, who will cry, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity' (Matthew 7:22-23). To these, the Lord has given strict warnings. They are the first to suffer the wrath of God when the Lord decides to "clean house", 'Behold vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation...And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord; First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me' (D&C 112:24-26).


Hugh Nibley said:

"...there are two churches. There are the people who profess it, and the people who really are. They all profess to belong to the church of God, but how do you distinguish? Well, as Paul says, our security rests in this. God knows his own. Only he knows the ones who are true Latter-day Saints and those who aren't. We have no means of knowing. You'd be surprised what rascals there are among us and what good people there are among us too. But you never suspect." (Teachings From The Book of Mormon, Lecture 75, p. 215)

I liked the D&C 112:24-26 scripture you citedcited.

Actually I'd been thinking about this thought a lot, particularly how some people won't help other members. But I'd been thinking about it more similar to a view of another scripture which kind of ties in with it. I had been thinking of how low home teaching rates were, and how it looks like the flip flop of the Nephites being wicked and the Lamanites being good is similar to what's happening in the Church now in some ways. (The Lamanites were humble, and the Nephites fell away because of the pride you cited, and in the same way.)

Alma 4:9-10
9 And thus, in this eighth year of the reign of the judges, there began to be great contentions among the people of the church; yea, there were envyings, and strife, and malice, and persecutions, and pride, even to exceed the pride of those who did not belong to the church of God.
10 And thus ended the eighth year of the reign of the judges; and the wickedness of the church was a great stumbling-block to those who did not belong to the church; and thus the church began to fail in its progress.

Helaman 4:23 And because of their iniquity the church had begun to dwindle; and they began to disbelieve in the spirit of prophecy and in the spirit of revelation; and the judgments of God did stare them in the face. 24 And they saw that they had become weak, like unto their brethren, the Lamanites, and that the Spirit of the Lord did no more preserve them; yea, it had withdrawn from them because the Spirit of the Lord doth not dwell in unholy temples—

And...

Helaman 6:1 "...and the Lamanites had become, the more part of them, a righteous people, insomuch that their righteousness did exceed that of the Nephites, because of their firmness and their steadiness in the faith..."
2 For behold, there were many of the Nephites who had become hardened and impenitent and grossly wicked, insomuch that they did reject the word of God and all the preaching and prophesying which did come among them.

I'm grateful that you posted thoughts about this.