LDS Freedom Forum

Jesef wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 2:39 pm Hey, Col., how did you get those numbers? Really curious. And are you sure they're accurate?

SempiternalHarbinger wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 10:17 am

Col. Flagg wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 9:51 am

Mark wrote: ↑June 13th, 2018, 4:39 pm

Col. Flagg wrote: ↑June 13th, 2018, 1:30 pm Mark, you still haven't answered my earlier question... maybe you won't? Wonder why?

I am baaaaaack. I don’t really care what the business arm of the church decides to buy. If they buy theaters they can show more uplifting and rewarding movies. Good on em. Great missionary opportunity. If they buy sports teams I hope they cut all those outrageous salaries of the spoiled rich brats and make them stop acting like premadonas. The Lord knows the beginning from the end. He is in charge of his church. Mans ways are not his ways. I hope you will come to understand that His church will be led properly by inspired servants who live up to their stewardship duties. If they didn’t they would be replaced by those who would. Have some faith!

Your mentality is exactly how and why our church is playing with $32 billion in the stock market. I found the rest of your post amusing and on target, especially about pro athletes. It's funny... I was going to tell you God's ways are not man's ways.

I'm curious Col. Flagg, now that the church has come out and said tithing funds are used for all these billion $ projects and investments, has anyone on this forum apologized to you? Every time you suggested tithing was being used you were met with firm opposition. Any apologies?

Jesef wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 2:39 pm Hey, Col., how did you get those numbers? Really curious. And are you sure they're accurate?

That would make the Church's statement - "The Church has spent billions of dollars over the past few years to meet welfare and humanitarian needs around the world." - not just a stretch, but an outright lie, $1.5B not being "Billions" (at least $2B to qualify that statement) and "few years" isn't 33 years, it's 3-7 years, technically. I want to believe that the Church & it's PR department are telling the truth.

I don't feel their explanation, from GC, about the City Creek project, was completely forthright - since they spun it to sound like the moneys involved had absolutely no connections or roots to tithing/donations. And that makes it look like we're really just concerned about positive PR instead of the truth and being 100% honest.

I really think this all has to start with 100% financial transparency. If they/the-Brethren don't like the reaction, then they can react/change/respond to it.

Durzan, what is your purpose for posting on this thread? Is it to convince us not to care where the money goes, like you apparently don't care?

Mark, likewise. You've confused embitterment with disagreement. You apparently don't want to tolerate any disagreement by the members with any leaders, huh? You think the leaders are just right all the time? Or is it disloyal to respectfully disagree? Or are their opinions and decisions always the Lord's opinions and decisions and therefore disagreeing is actually rebellion (in your view)?

Mark wrote: ↑June 16th, 2018, 9:04 am

Jesef wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 2:39 pm Hey, Col., how did you get those numbers? Really curious. And are you sure they're accurate?

That would make the Church's statement - "The Church has spent billions of dollars over the past few years to meet welfare and humanitarian needs around the world." - not just a stretch, but an outright lie, $1.5B not being "Billions" (at least $2B to qualify that statement) and "few years" isn't 33 years, it's 3-7 years, technically. I want to believe that the Church & it's PR department are telling the truth.

I don't feel their explanation, from GC, about the City Creek project, was completely forthright - since they spun it to sound like the moneys involved had absolutely no connections or roots to tithing/donations. And that makes it look like we're really just concerned about positive PR instead of the truth and being 100% honest.

I really think this all has to start with 100% financial transparency. If they/the-Brethren don't like the reaction, then they can react/change/respond to it.

Durzan, what is your purpose for posting on this thread? Is it to convince us not to care where the money goes, like you apparently don't care?

Mark, likewise. You've confused embitterment with disagreement. You apparently don't want to tolerate any disagreement by the members with any leaders, huh? You think the leaders are just right all the time? Or is it disloyal to respectfully disagree? Or are their opinions and decisions always the Lord's opinions and decisions and therefore disagreeing is actually rebellion (in your view)?

Respectfully disagree? now that's funny! Look at the Col. Posts now and in the past and those who have joined the bandwagon along with him when it comes to church finances. They are dripping of accusatory tones complete with sarcasm and malcontent like attitudes aimed at questioning the leaderships integrity acting within their apostolic actions when it comes to their stewardship responsibilities with the Tithes and offerings given by the members. There is no respect involved here. None. If you don't see it you are blind as a bat at noonday or are just being coy.

The Col. is being what you would call in ideological terms a useful idiot to the cause of division and eventual apostasy. He is just parroting the attitudes and complaints of those like Rock Waterman and his crew of malcontents who have left the church and are in constant negative attack mode against it. They want nothing more than to see division and apostasy within the church and will do anything they can to further that goal. You may have been taken in by their methods but I can see right through them. I will speak up about it no matter what you think or feel I should or shouldn't be doing. If you prefer total negativity toward the church just go to boards like the New Order Mormon type and you will get your fill of it. I prefer this board at least have some positive talk in defense of the Lords church and its servants called to direct the work.

Finrock wrote: ↑June 16th, 2018, 2:06 pm

Mark wrote: ↑June 16th, 2018, 9:04 am

Jesef wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 2:39 pm Hey, Col., how did you get those numbers? Really curious. And are you sure they're accurate?

That would make the Church's statement - "The Church has spent billions of dollars over the past few years to meet welfare and humanitarian needs around the world." - not just a stretch, but an outright lie, $1.5B not being "Billions" (at least $2B to qualify that statement) and "few years" isn't 33 years, it's 3-7 years, technically. I want to believe that the Church & it's PR department are telling the truth.

I don't feel their explanation, from GC, about the City Creek project, was completely forthright - since they spun it to sound like the moneys involved had absolutely no connections or roots to tithing/donations. And that makes it look like we're really just concerned about positive PR instead of the truth and being 100% honest.

I really think this all has to start with 100% financial transparency. If they/the-Brethren don't like the reaction, then they can react/change/respond to it.

Durzan, what is your purpose for posting on this thread? Is it to convince us not to care where the money goes, like you apparently don't care?

Mark, likewise. You've confused embitterment with disagreement. You apparently don't want to tolerate any disagreement by the members with any leaders, huh? You think the leaders are just right all the time? Or is it disloyal to respectfully disagree? Or are their opinions and decisions always the Lord's opinions and decisions and therefore disagreeing is actually rebellion (in your view)?

Respectfully disagree? now that's funny! Look at the Col. Posts now and in the past and those who have joined the bandwagon along with him when it comes to church finances. They are dripping of accusatory tones complete with sarcasm and malcontent like attitudes aimed at questioning the leaderships integrity acting within their apostolic actions when it comes to their stewardship responsibilities with the Tithes and offerings given by the members. There is no respect involved here. None. If you don't see it you are blind as a bat at noonday or are just being coy.

The Col. is being what you would call in ideological terms a useful idiot to the cause of division and eventual apostasy. He is just parroting the attitudes and complaints of those like Rock Waterman and his crew of malcontents who have left the church and are in constant negative attack mode against it. They want nothing more than to see division and apostasy within the church and will do anything they can to further that goal. You may have been taken in by their methods but I can see right through them. I will speak up about it no matter what you think or feel I should or shouldn't be doing. If you prefer total negativity toward the church just go to boards like the New Order Mormon type and you will get your fill of it. I prefer this board at least have some positive talk in defense of the Lords church and its servants called to direct the work.

Sounds like you have a lot of negativity and harsh feelings towards your brothers and sisters. Most of your post accuse, belittle, and are full of malcontent towards people.

Impression we get from the Spirit are almost always for us and our stewardship. Something for all of us to think about.

You've probably heard the saying "Be the change you want to see in the world" or something like that.

Mark spread love, not accusations, mockery, belittling, name calling, etc. This is good for all.

-Finrock

Mark wrote: ↑June 16th, 2018, 9:04 am

Jesef wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 2:39 pm Hey, Col., how did you get those numbers? Really curious. And are you sure they're accurate?

That would make the Church's statement - "The Church has spent billions of dollars over the past few years to meet welfare and humanitarian needs around the world." - not just a stretch, but an outright lie, $1.5B not being "Billions" (at least $2B to qualify that statement) and "few years" isn't 33 years, it's 3-7 years, technically. I want to believe that the Church & it's PR department are telling the truth.

I don't feel their explanation, from GC, about the City Creek project, was completely forthright - since they spun it to sound like the moneys involved had absolutely no connections or roots to tithing/donations. And that makes it look like we're really just concerned about positive PR instead of the truth and being 100% honest.

I really think this all has to start with 100% financial transparency. If they/the-Brethren don't like the reaction, then they can react/change/respond to it.

Durzan, what is your purpose for posting on this thread? Is it to convince us not to care where the money goes, like you apparently don't care?

Mark, likewise. You've confused embitterment with disagreement. You apparently don't want to tolerate any disagreement by the members with any leaders, huh? You think the leaders are just right all the time? Or is it disloyal to respectfully disagree? Or are their opinions and decisions always the Lord's opinions and decisions and therefore disagreeing is actually rebellion (in your view)?

Respectfully disagree? now that's funny! Look at the Col. Posts now and in the past and those who have joined the bandwagon along with him when it comes to church finances. They are dripping of accusatory tones complete with sarcasm and malcontent like attitudes aimed at questioning the leaderships integrity acting within their apostolic actions when it comes to their stewardship responsibilities with the Tithes and offerings given by the members. There is no respect involved here. None. If you don't see it you are blind as a bat at noonday or are just being coy.

Mark, it's simply a matter of what is right and what is wrong and just because I'm questioning the church's deep involvement in Babylon does not mean I am looking to attack the church, the brethren or their stewardships, it simply means I see a big problem and am taking a stand against it. Your constant and ridiculous attacks against me for standing up against what I believe to be wrong by the institutional church is hypocritical because you're doing the same thing to me that you're accusing me of doing to the church. Let me guess... so if tomorrow we learned that the church was buying up all Larry H. Miller car dealerships as well as buying the Utah Jazz professional basketball franchise and I came out in opposition of it, you'd call me out for being a sarcastic malcontent apostate who's challenging all-inspired church actions and leaders, right? The church could probably completely abandon rendering any sort of humanitarian assistance while becoming 100% engaged in nothing but big business and you'd be the first to defend it while attacking anyone questioning how it is accomplishing the work of Christ and our Lord simply because it has to somehow be sanctioned by God and Christ because it's happening and being done by infallible Apostles and servants of God. Good grief man, you need to brush up on what Joseph Smith himself said about this subject, you just might change your rhetoric.

The Col. is being what you would call in ideological terms a useful idiot to the cause of division and eventual apostasy.

Like I've said before Mark, if questioning and expressing discontent over the use of billions of sacred funds to build a freaking mall and plush condos while being involved to the tune of $32 billion in the U.S. stock market and invested in companies that produce suffering, death and destruction, all for money, are signs of being an apostate, then all of us should be apostates and heaven help us all!

He is just parroting the attitudes and complaints of those like Rock Waterman and his crew of malcontents who have left the church and are in constant negative attack mode against it.

No Mark, some of us just want the truth and what's right out of the church instead of it being opaque financially and ex-communicating anyone who attempts to bring truth and light to many doctrines and principles that have been lost, forgotten, covered up or changed over time by the philosophies of fallible men in the church 'mingled with scripture'. You know what's interesting... yesterday's apostate contentions just so happen to be today's church essays.

They want nothing more than to see division and apostasy within the church and will do anything they can to further that goal.

Disgusting bunk.

You may have been taken in by their methods but I can see right through them. I will speak up about it no matter what you think or feel I should or shouldn't be doing. If you prefer total negativity toward the church just go to boards like the New Order Mormon type and you will get your fill of it. I prefer this board at least have some positive talk in defense of the Lords church and its servants called to direct the work.

I'm convinced there's absolutely nothing the church could say or do that would cause you to even raise an eyebrow regardless of how much it goes against scripture or the character of our Lord and Savior. But I'm the useful idiot. Got it.