LDS Freedom Forum

It’s been my experience that bigger obstacles get in the way the closer you get to God. Many people on this forum and in different blogs have shared the different trials God have them prior to receiving greater blessings(whatever that blessing may be).

Has anyone experienced what seems like a withdrawal of heavenly help and influence and presence during a time where you seem to have truly reached the depths of humility, serving others, praying, reading, pondering often , all day throughout the day, minding your thoughts, avoiding things of the world like tv, entertainment etc., even avoiding other reading material outside of just the scriptures?

How about this withdrawal of heavenly influence directly after a very enlightening and revelatory experience?

Yes. Both. And very frustrating though in hindsight I can see it's all for the best.

I am absolutely positive this happens.

Well that’s comforting

Here are some of my thoughts that are along these lines. I’ve found comfort in understanding how God works.

http://oneclimbs.com/2016/01/28/surviving-the-void/

Along those lines I highly recommend

I think its important you clarify the difference of withdrawal from the spirit and SEVERE adversity. I think some of the people who are agreeing with you probably actually are talking about severe adversity. It's hard that we sometimes get severe adversity in this life. Sometimes physical pain, or anguish from adversity like deaths of family members, and loss of family can make it harder to feel the Spirit.

But those are the times we most need to feel the Spirit even though it's harder! That's when we'll reach out to God for help! We have to trust God that things will be OK if we're faithful even with that going on.

5tev3 wrote: ↑May 11th, 2018, 11:33 pm Here are some of my thoughts that are along these lines. I’ve found comfort in understanding how God works.

http://oneclimbs.com/2016/01/28/surviving-the-void/

this is precisely why i posts. i figured someone would come along with a fantastic blog post. i enjoyed your use of the allegory, i think one of the reasons the Lord uss thrm is so that you can teach different things with the same allegory.
thank you!

drtanner wrote: ↑May 11th, 2018, 11:58 pm Along those lines I highly recommend

whew, i’ll need o watch that on sunday or something !

gardener4life wrote: ↑May 12th, 2018, 12:04 am I think its important you clarify the difference of withdrawal from the spirit and SEVERE adversity. I think some of the people who are agreeing with you probably actually are talking about severe adversity. It's hard that we sometimes get severe adversity in this life. Sometimes physical pain, or anguish from adversity like deaths of family members, and loss of family can make it harder to feel the Spirit.

But those are the times we most need to feel the Spirit even though it's harder! That's when we'll reach out to God for help! We have to trust God that things will be OK if we're faithful even with that going on.

perhaps for their experiences that makes sense! for me it’s not adversity, my life as of late has been very blessed(not in a bragging way, i just can’t deny what the Lord has done recently) but out of the blue it just seems the Lord needed to test me so i’m just figuring it out and looking around!

Stahura wrote: ↑May 12th, 2018, 12:13 am

gardener4life wrote: ↑May 12th, 2018, 12:04 am I think its important you clarify the difference of withdrawal from the spirit and SEVERE adversity. I think some of the people who are agreeing with you probably actually are talking about severe adversity. It's hard that we sometimes get severe adversity in this life. Sometimes physical pain, or anguish from adversity like deaths of family members, and loss of family can make it harder to feel the Spirit.

But those are the times we most need to feel the Spirit even though it's harder! That's when we'll reach out to God for help! We have to trust God that things will be OK if we're faithful even with that going on.

perhaps for their experiences that makes sense! for me it’s not adversity, my life as of late has been very blessed(not in a bragging way, i just can’t deny what the Lord has done recently) but out of the blue it just seems the Lord needed to test me so i’m just figuring it out and looking around!

Are you sure you are feeling withdrawal of spirit and not like nothing is changing or going anywhere? My grandfather told me once he had a phase in life that lasted a few years where ...it felt like he was stagnating. He was active in the church but just felt like he wasn't really going anywhere in some ways. I think it may have felt bad for him in a way...and I suppose it was similar to withdrawal of the spirit.

gardener4life wrote: ↑May 12th, 2018, 12:23 am

Stahura wrote: ↑May 12th, 2018, 12:13 am

gardener4life wrote: ↑May 12th, 2018, 12:04 am I think its important you clarify the difference of withdrawal from the spirit and SEVERE adversity. I think some of the people who are agreeing with you probably actually are talking about severe adversity. It's hard that we sometimes get severe adversity in this life. Sometimes physical pain, or anguish from adversity like deaths of family members, and loss of family can make it harder to feel the Spirit.

But those are the times we most need to feel the Spirit even though it's harder! That's when we'll reach out to God for help! We have to trust God that things will be OK if we're faithful even with that going on.

perhaps for their experiences that makes sense! for me it’s not adversity, my life as of late has been very blessed(not in a bragging way, i just can’t deny what the Lord has done recently) but out of the blue it just seems the Lord needed to test me so i’m just figuring it out and looking around!

Are you sure you are feeling withdrawal of spirit and not like nothing is changing or going anywhere? My grandfather told me once he had a phase in life that lasted a few years where ...it felt like he was stagnating. He was active in the church but just felt like he wasn't really going anywhere in some ways. I think it may have felt bad for him in a way...and I suppose it was similar to withdrawal of the spirit.

i don’t think so.. i say that because the last 2 weeks have been very spiritual and enlightening, more so than any point since at least 2014.Immediately after the highest point of these past few weeks it’s just gone. i have plenty of my own thoughts on what’s going on, i just always love to see what others have to say on the forum.

Also an interesting thought from Clayton Christensens book, the power of the everyday missionary:

Feeling the Spirit of God Again: Let me describe how sharing the gospel has been such a source of happiness for me. After I finished business school at age twenty-seven and began my career, in imperceptible increments I began to feel the Spirit less and less in my life. I was serving as a counselor to Bishop Kent Bowen in Boston, and I was spending a lot of time and energy to magnify that assignment. I was praying and studying the scriptures regularly, and yet despite my doing all these “right” things, I just felt that the Spirit was not with me as much as I had felt it when I was on my mission in Korea.

Then we moved to Washington, D.C., where I was to work as a White House Fellow. All of a sudden, we lived and worked and commuted with new people, and I found myself with many more opportunities to discuss the gospel with my new friends. In short order after our move, two of my colleagues accepted my invitation to come to our home and take the missionary discussions. Before one of our lessons with them, we were scurrying around to clean things up. I put a tape of the Mormon Youth Symphony and Chorus into our stereo, and the choir began playing their rendition of “The Spirit of God” (Hymns, no. 2). I was in the dining room when they began the third verse: We’ll call in our solemn assemblies in spirit, To spread forth the kingdom of heaven abroad, That we through our faith may begin to inherit The visions and blessings and glories of God. As I heard those words, a powerful and sweet spirit entered my heart, and I realized what had been happening in my spiritual life. With our move to Washington, I had begun again to do my part in spreading forth the kingdom of heaven abroad. And what I inherited as a result were the visions and blessings and glories of God.

I’ll summarize the lesson I learned from this with a metaphor. In a war, the generals give the state-of-the-art weapons to those soldiers who are on the front lines engaged in direct combat with the enemy. To those of their troops who work in administrative positions behind the lines, they’ll give less-potent tools. What had happened in Boston was that I had been spending more of my Church service on administrative things. I actually could do most of those kinds of things effectively, without needing to rely very heavily on the Spirit. But in becoming an active missionary again, I had essentially repositioned myself onto the front lines in the war against Satan over the souls of men. This meant that I needed the Spirit with me every day. Hence, under license given to each of us in section 4 of the Doctrine and Covenants, I “called myself” on a mission. I love my life as a missionary, keeping myself on the front lines. The image in my mind is that God, my General, stands at the door when I go out every morning; and, knowing what the war is like, day after day He gives me His most powerful weapon: His Spirit. For this I am grateful.

Alaris wrote: ↑May 11th, 2018, 10:38 pm Yes. Both. And very frustrating though in hindsight I can see it's all for the best.

7yrs prosperity is like that in midsight, 1 yr in.

Angel of Light thread details deceptions and stuff.

I once heard a former stake president tell that he had experienced a withdrawal of Spirit as a SP. He kept doing what he knew was right and made the best decision he could as SP, but for some time he couldn't feel the Spirit. Then, suddenly all was back to normal and he felt the Spirit again. He was sure that it was a test of his faith.

Yes! Back in 2012 after so much outpouring of love and light. It was utterly confusing and depressing. Since then it has been a cycle of light and love and peace followed by utter silence. And it seems to coincide with being tested with what I am required and willing to sacrifice. Yesterday was one such low point-probably the lowest yet. It has a way of making one question if it has all been my own imagination. It reminds me of what Jesus cried out while He hung on the cross: "why has thou forsaken me!?"

You start to analyze and over analyze and you just get tired of thinking. Then D&C 122 comes to mind, but without the revelation-without God talking to you. You just get to read about the experiences of others and wonder if your own weren't just amazing coincidences. It was at my lowest point yet last night that this old song suddenly came to mind, which took the edge off my depression and gave me a tiny degree of comfort:
I have listened to this song many times over the years. I love the night and watching the moon. But I never truly noticed the message or its source. I was particularly touched by the reference to jars of clay in the lyrics:

Treasures in the jars of clay
Let the light shine out of darkness
Fallen down but not destroyed
It's just another trial by fire...

It was pulled straight from the New Testament, though the KJV uses earthen vessels rather than jars of clay.

2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;

9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed...

But Steve Perry, Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain must have used the NIV version, pulling their lyrics straight from it. It seems to imply that it is we who are such earthen vessels-jars of clay-being made from the dust of the earth. Whatever light shines from us in the darkness is of Jesus Christ. Or as we read in Phillippians, "For me to live is Christ." It also reminds me of James 1, also referenced in the song:

2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds,
3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance.
4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you.
6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.
7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord.
8 Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do

But back to the KJV, the crown jewel of last night's revelation:

1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ’s sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

So if you're feeling down and utterly forsaken as I have been, especially while diligently striving to do nothing but His will continually, then this little gem by Journey might help. In any case, it soothed my melancholy.

Treasures in the jars of clay
Let the light shine out of darkness
Fallen down but not destroyed
It's just another trial by fire

In my song I'll send a prayer
Do you know me, do you hear me
Where the will to face this shame
It's just another trial by fire

Hello Mr. Moon
Can I have some time with you
Trouble keep me runnin'...
You can see it comin'...
I know who shines down on you

Hello Mr. Moon
I've come back to talk to you
All my life I'm runnin'...
From the love that's comin'...
Saving grace please pull me through

In my doubt I can't believe
Like a wave tossed where the wind blows
Tears of faith temper my soul
Just another trial by fire
Just another trial by fire

gardener4life wrote: ↑May 12th, 2018, 12:04 am I think its important you clarify the difference of withdrawal from the spirit and SEVERE adversity. I think some of the people who are agreeing with you probably actually are talking about severe adversity.

Not me. I've had both, and there's a difference. The time I'm thinking of happened a few years ago, and I had been enjoying this spiritual high for months and months. Then, nothing, despite everything I tried, until I reached a breaking point. And that was when I realized what God was doing: He was showing me where my breaking point was, and it was pathetically low.

In hindsight now, I can see that it was preparation for the hell that was coming soon after.

Yes, to the withdrawal of the Spirit at depths of humility etc...No to it after an intense spiritual experience (after intense spiritual experiences I might not feel to the degree I felt before, but I still felt the Spirit and attributed it to in a sense my soul expanding - it wasn't that I felt less, it is that I felt the same or more, but now had the capacity to feel more - so It felt diminished.

As the the first question I believe it had a dual purpose. it was during a time in my life when I was attending the temple weekly or two times a week,. Every time I opened the scriptures the revelations poured through, I was directed where to read and guided in my actions. Constantly directed where to go, what to say and how to do it. Then one day I sat at the computer (I was not doing anything wrong at all or what anyone could even interpret as wrong, just school work I think) and it was like a switch was turned off. EVERY SINGLE spiritual experience I had ever felt just lost their power. I knew they had occurred, but there was no feeling behind them. When I prayed it was as if The heavens were sealed. I felt nothing - like the Spirit had been driven out of me. It was empty. My soul and heart were empty - I doubted everything. I tried to pray but felt that no one was listening or at least that it wasn't getting through, I read the scriptures and attended the temple and felt nothing. In my mind It made no logical sense to follow the gospel. However, then a professor and his words came to my mind which taught me there was truth outside of logic and that to prove logic you have to use logic which is circular reasoning and therefore illogical. I knew that there was truth outside of logic, but couldn't feel it. So I began to try and read the scriptures and try to pray - I read the scriptures because "a bunch of old dead guys believed it was true and wrote about it, so I was going to try and believe on their words." Weeks I felt like this remembering every experience I had in the past trying to figure out whether or not I had psychologically forced myself to feel those experiences. The most profound, how I came to believe in God, I found could not have been forced - it was a simple and sincere question answered in a way I never could have expected. Yet I still felt nothing (for me when I remember my experiences it is like there is a weight - they still exist, but now they felt like they were fake and mere memories without feeling). Anyways weeks later I was driving to church struggling to do the right thing and for the first time I felt a small pin prick of peace - like I was doing the right thing. Then that grew and for certain things I am as close to knowledge as I can get without seeing.

Now, with that being said, the a couple of reasons this event occurred to me was 1) to not judge those who had doubts about the gospel and struggled - I deeply empathize with them now and just hope they come back 2) to teach me I never had faith in Jesus Christ - this whole thing occurred because I felt I should ask for Faith in the Savior (though I felt stupid for it because I "knew") but I was following the Spirit. The experience taught me to rely more wholly upon the Savior rather than in culture or traditions - I have largely been able to sweep aside and take the truth and it has blessed me with a clarity that I've not experienced beforehand. It taught be to love and rely on the Savior and his mercies in ways I never could have before and to teach about Him to those who seek Him. I'm incredibly grateful for that experience even though it was one of the hardest things that has ever occurred to me. Suffice it to say there are a few other incredible blessings that have come from that experience. I do not wish anyone to experience what I experienced, but I do hope they come to know Him like I have (though I still fail so often in emulating Him). At least knowing the truth allows me to examine myself more fully and judge others less harshly. I came to love James - Count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations, for the trying of your faith worketh patience.But let patience have her perfect work that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

As an aside, I do not believe it is normally a common occurrence in our lives and there is a difference from when the Spirit withdraws to teach you something and the Spirit withdrawing (or rather you/me rejecting it) because of sin or because of inaction (rejecting the promptings of the Spirit to do or not do something). I knew though, that this particular withdrawal was not because of what I did because nothing I was doing in my life would have merited such a harsh result. This experience was to teach me. Praying for the gifts of the Spirit works. Pray for Faith in Christ and he will grant you that request it may take a couple of years, but that faith is so much more powerful than was my "knowledge" before hand - it was more full because I embraced my doubts and chose to believe no matter what, which gave me even more belief in Christ. He is real and He can heal.

This is a journal entry of mine from November 14, 2013:

"I have been enjoying the love of the Lord to such a degree that I feel bereft when it was gone. I had a couple of days where I just felt so much love and then suddenly it was gone. I went on a walk at night and told God how I felt bereft and alone and so human. It was then thoughts of things I have been studying flooded my mind. We left the presence of God to come here so that we could walk by faith, endure temptation, face opposition and overcome and grow. Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden. They had been in a state of innocence and in the very presence of God but did not progress. They needed to leave and be subject to human nature and temptation to grow and choose the good over the evil. Sometimes they were visited by the Spirit of the Lord and blessed but in order to grow, would walk by trying the Word of God and continue to feel their way choosing good over evil. Jesus' apostles did not abound in power and testimony until after the atonement, death and resurrection of the Savior. He left them and gave them the Spirit and then they were mighty in word and deed. The flesh and the spirit were willing.
Then it came to mind where Peter (I think) says "we did count the trial of our faith as more precious than gold." I felt Him say, "I cannot always make you feel my love, although it is always there. In order for you to grow and be everything you and I want you to be, you must struggle and learn for yourself the good from the evil. It is okay. It is more than okay. We are making your soul into what you were always meant to be. Don't panic and fight against it. Just keep turning to me in every circumstance. The trial of your faith is more precious that gold." What an outpouring and consolation. What courage it gave me to endure this human condition."

Like the long desert journey when you leave Egypt in hopes for the promised land?

Yes, it happens, in my experience and from what I've observed in many others - like a spiritual drought. The Hermiticists called it "the long dark night of the soul" and many prophets went through it - Nephi describes his in 2 Nephi 4 - and Jesus went through it as well, in the wilderness, when Satan came tempting, as well as in Gethsemane and on the cross when He said "why hast thou forsaken me". It's a growth experience in which one passes through darkness without much assistance.

I certainly never expected this many responses! For something that so many people have experienced and learned from, I'm surprised I've never heard anybody talk about it! This has been fantastic!

Funny thing about all this is that in the midst of this "drought", one thing came to me. One single piece of help from Heaven, and that was a prompting to ask you guys on the forum

Stahura wrote: ↑May 12th, 2018, 8:21 pmOne single piece of help from Heaven, and that was a prompting to ask you guys on the forum

I'm so thankful you did. I needed it more than you know.

marc wrote: ↑May 13th, 2018, 7:12 pm

Stahura wrote: ↑May 12th, 2018, 8:21 pmOne single piece of help from Heaven, and that was a prompting to ask you guys on the forum

I'm so thankful you did. I needed it more than you know.

Really? That’s great! God bless!

Romans 13:8-10 nails it - the real test & purpose of life on earth

13:8 Owe no one anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 13:9 For the commandments, 7 “ Do not commit adultery , do not murder , do not steal , do not covet , ” 8 (and if there is any other commandment) are summed up in this, “ Love your neighbor as yourself .” 9 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.