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Re: Withdrawal of Spirit as a trial?
Posted: May 14th, 2018, 9:50 am
by Finrock
Although I've had great blessings in my life and have had times where the spirit has been strong in my life and I've just felt filled with light, goodness, love, and truth, I also know that there are periods afterwards where I don't feel the spirit and where I feel that heaven is more distant than close. It seems for me just in general that so far I have been consigned to live in a state of experiencing deep sadness and deep loneliness. Thank goodness for the experiences I have had that keep me afloat during these times. I also take consolation in the scriptures knowing that many others who have had experiences with God that are wonderful, still experienced much sadness, sorrow, and trials afterwards. Meaning, its nice to know that these seems to be a part of the experience or part of the program and that I'm not being picked on or being treated differently than others.
-Finrock
Re: Withdrawal of Spirit as a trial?
Posted: May 14th, 2018, 11:16 am
by Jesef
I believe as long as we're still in the game of life (physical/mortal), we are meant to be challenged. The better the player, the harder the challenges. Maybe there are brief reprieves between levels, where we can celebrate, relax, enjoy, and then the next level starts and it's game time again. The lives of the greatest souls (players) who have ever lived seem to validate this - it seems like their lives were even harder at the very end. Maybe some lifetimes are just luxury cruises, but for the most part I think we come down here to learn and grow, through experience, and particularly opposition/resistance. Just a theory that makes sense.
Re: Withdrawal of Spirit as a trial?
Posted: May 17th, 2018, 11:22 pm
by brianj
I feel like I just had this experience today. Before I tell you what happened, here's a little bit of what is going on in my life.
Last month my (still) wife tried getting a judge to prevent me from ever having contact with my son. He rejected everything else she demanded, but ordered me to pay almost $800 per month in child support. Then the state ordered my employer to take that money from me before paying me. After paying all the bills, I have about $500 per month to live on. This obviously means that to survive the next two years I need to become homeless, stop paying tithing, or rely on charity. To me it also means that any chance I have with women is destroyed. Who wants a guy who is homeless or living off charity? So I am really hurting, and to make matters worse I have been fervently praying for things to get better.
I'm all alone. I have a sofa in my apartment that I acquired in early December but nobody has come to visit and sit on it. I am quite literally alone. My nearest relative lives nearly 1,000 miles away and none of my family is close. I can't turn to them for support or encouragement, and comments from me that are essentially pleas for someone to come spend a little time with me are either ignored or met with shaming language. In this situation I went to a temple this evening. Before going, and while in the temple, I prayed for comfort and encouragement.
Temple ordinances are generally the only time anybody will touch me, so when I go to an endowment session I always stand for the prayer. I don't do it for worship, but to have a little bit more physical contact with somebody. This feels as pathetic as it sounds, but I was inspired to know that by standing there alone sisters who want to participate but are too shy to come stand alone can participate.
So I am in the Provo temple, in the 7:40 session. As soon as the first couple goes up for the prayer I stand and walk up. I'm standing alone, as usual, and was a bit surprised by the officiator's choice of words: "We could use a few more people." Two or three more couples come up, then the worker at the altar hits the play button! I'm all alone! Only pairs of men and women are supposed to be in the prayer circle. It seems like everybody in the circle but the worker have their eyes on me.
I come to attention, take a step back and do an about face as best I can in the very limited space, then the officiator reprimands me for stepping away! I felt like I had to contend with him to get him to understand that nobody was standing with me, then I go back to my seat feeling totally humiliated, worthless, and so detestable that nobody wants to stand with me.
I can't begin to explain why this happened or how I can possibly learn anything positive from it. In the locker room and on my drive home I find myself thinking of Slobodan Praljak as a hero and wishing what he did wasn't a sin so I could do the same thing in court as a public statement if this divorce gets any worse.
If Stahura or anybody else is struggling with what he or she first asked about, I can't provide any reason for it or any other comfort than the knowledge that you aren't alone in this way.
Re: Withdrawal of Spirit as a trial?
Posted: May 18th, 2018, 7:44 am
by Mark
brianj wrote: ↑May 17th, 2018, 11:22 pm
I feel like I just had this experience today. Before I tell you what happened, here's a little bit of what is going on in my life.
Last month my (still) wife tried getting a judge to prevent me from ever having contact with my son. He rejected everything else she demanded, but ordered me to pay almost $800 per month in child support. Then the state ordered my employer to take that money from me before paying me. After paying all the bills, I have about $500 per month to live on. This obviously means that to survive the next two years I need to become homeless, stop paying tithing, or rely on charity. To me it also means that any chance I have with women is destroyed. Who wants a guy who is homeless or living off charity? So I am really hurting, and to make matters worse I have been fervently praying for things to get better.
I'm all alone. I have a sofa in my apartment that I acquired in early December but nobody has come to visit and sit on it. I am quite literally alone. My nearest relative lives nearly 1,000 miles away and none of my family is close. I can't turn to them for support or encouragement, and comments from me that are essentially pleas for someone to come spend a little time with me are either ignored or met with shaming language. In this situation I went to a temple this evening. Before going, and while in the temple, I prayed for comfort and encouragement.
Temple ordinances are generally the only time anybody will touch me, so when I go to an endowment session I always stand for the prayer. I don't do it for worship, but to have a little bit more physical contact with somebody. This feels as pathetic as it sounds, but I was inspired to know that by standing there alone sisters who want to participate but are too shy to come stand alone can participate.
So I am in the Provo temple, in the 7:40 session. As soon as the first couple goes up for the prayer I stand and walk up. I'm standing alone, as usual, and was a bit surprised by the officiator's choice of words: "We could use a few more people." Two or three more couples come up, then the worker at the altar hits the play button! I'm all alone! Only pairs of men and women are supposed to be in the prayer circle. It seems like everybody in the circle but the worker have their eyes on me.
I come to attention, take a step back and do an about face as best I can in the very limited space, then the officiator reprimands me for stepping away! I felt like I had to contend with him to get him to understand that nobody was standing with me, then I go back to my seat feeling totally humiliated, worthless, and so detestable that nobody wants to stand with me.
I can't begin to explain why this happened or how I can possibly learn anything positive from it. In the locker room and on my drive home I find myself thinking of Slobodan Praljak as a hero and wishing what he did wasn't a sin so I could do the same thing in court as a public statement if this divorce gets any worse.
If Stahura or anybody else is struggling with what he or she first asked about, I can't provide any reason for it or any other comfort than the knowledge that you aren't alone in this way.
"For whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth.." Don't let life's challenges and disappointments overcome you brother. We are all going through a refinement process. Satan knows that all to well. He is there with the sole purpose to tempt us to give up or feel so overcome with grief or sorrow or fear or disappointment that we think it's no use to continue. That is his game. Shut him out of your life by absorbing yourself in Christ and his healing at-one-ment process. Lose yourself in the service of others. Stop thinking about your own challenges and find ways that you can reach out to others who are hurting or are in need. The Lord wants you to succeed and feel loved by Him. Only He knows our true self. We are so caught up in the telestial sphere that we can't see the forest thru the trees. Keep going to the temple and find yourself praying throughout the day acknowledging your Fathers goodness and merciful ways and follow promptings to reach out and serve. Therein you will find the joys of mortality and see the good news of the gospel in action. Read uplifting articles and listen to uplifting music. Don't let Babylon get you to submit to its ways. Zion is coming and you can be a vital part of that community. Make Christ the doer of your deeds and the speaker of your words. Squash that contrarian voice in your head like a cockroach. Christ has claimed you!
https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/m-cather ... ker-words/
https://publications.mi.byu.edu/fullscr ... 59&index=1
Re: Withdrawal of Spirit as a trial?
Posted: May 18th, 2018, 8:17 am
by Finrock
We need to be desperate for grace. God recognizes this and so count it a blessing that circumstances in your life are bringing you closer to the point where you desperately need, want, and desire God's intervention. Its these types of "crying" and pleading that gets heard and answered. Surrender to God. Its hard. Its not easy. Our pride prevents us. Our human nature stalls us. We rather just be comfortable and travel the path of least resistance. We often fight the trial, adding more discomfort, as opposed to embracing it. Again, I don't say this in a condescending manner because I know what its like to be in the throes of a trial and pain and how we want to escape and be done with it without us changing or without us needed to act. Surrendering to God is hard and giving ourselves up to Him is hard.
But, to advance to a new place spiritually requires true intent, sincerity, desperation for God, and intense surrendering.
I feel like I'm failing in my description. I'm sorry, but at the moment its the best I can do.
-Finrock
Re: Withdrawal of Spirit as a trial?
Posted: May 18th, 2018, 2:28 pm
by marc
Moroni tells us as much.
Moroni 10:32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.
33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.
I listened to Moroni's final chapters over and over again today. They are powerful, meaty, nourishing words just as Nephi's final chapters. They offer up their final exhortations and I can feel them reaching through time. I can feel the passion in their urging and imploring. Both also declared that they would be standing at the judgment bar of God to testify that they gave us these words. We have no excuse who are members of the church if we do not heed the words of them who cried from the dust.