Hebrew Roots of the Book of Mormon

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marc
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Hebrew Roots of the Book of Mormon

Post by marc »

A Jewish buddy of mine, Rob, has just finished and published a Hebrew Roots Adaptation of the Book of Mormon. Some of you might remember him as Mormon Rabbi here on LDSFF before he was made unwelcome and he deleted his forum account. I've met him and had lunch with him and he's a super nice guy. I look forward to getting this work in the mail.

https://mormonyeshiva.blogspot.com/2018 ... ormon.html
There are those who ask, "Why a Hebrew Roots Adaptation?" The answer is that the writers of the the Book of Mormon were Jews or rather citizens and descendants of the Southern Kingdom of Israel. As such the record contains many guiding truths and covenant betrothal gifts from God to his people meant to establish them in the land and prepare them for his coming in Glory. The Book of Mormon is not the property of any religion but is the birthright of the heirs of the remnants of Israel to who this record was intended. As the writers were Jewish Prophets and their descendants who were taught the knowledge of Israel and it's ancient prophetic tradition, the record contains the foundational knowledge by which this modern remnant of Jacob, those believing Yehudim, and those believing Gentiles may once again be established as a righteous and covenant keeping people before YHVH (God) on this land of America.

When it was first translated (abt. 1830) the record came forth by the power of God through the hands of a Gentile to a body of Gentiles who were then to take the record to the remnant of Jacob on this land. As it was a translation, many names, phrases, and terms were translated to engage the people of the day who were primarily people of Christian origin, but who had no real background in the language and culture of the Jews who wrote the record. As such there were many phrases and names used which English speaking Christians would understand but which would be foreign to those from and Israelite/ Jewish origin. This is mentioned not to denigrate the Gentiles and people whose additional sacrifices took this record to the world. It is just that your average christian in the 1800's would not understand or have a religious context for concepts and names in their Israelite form; such as Torah of Moshe, ma'asim, takanot, misphatim, chukkim, etc. They would however understand the terms Law of Moses, works, ordinances, judgments, statutes, etc...
In Hebrew poetic form, one does not stop at the end of a line and why there is no punctuation. It probably explains why Joseph Smith did not include punctuation in his manuscripts. John H. Gilbert, who worked for E. B. Grandin was responsible for the punctuation of what we have in today's Book of Mormon copies. But in Hebrew poetic form, for example, one reads in block texts beginning with, "And it came to pass," and ending until the next "and it came to pass" or similar and so on.

For anyone interested, here are the links to the adaptation in three volumes:

Voices from the Dust: Volume 1
Voices from the Dust: Volume 2
Voices from the Dust: Volume 3

Incidentally, here is a PDF of John Gilbert's own account of the printing process of the Book of Mormon:

https://publications.mi.byu.edu/publica ... kousen.pdf

gardener4life
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Re: Hebrew Roots of the Book of Mormon

Post by gardener4life »

The showing of Hebrew roots and tradition in the Book of Mormon is a cool idea. It's also a sign of its authenticity.

Thank you

larsenb
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Re: Hebrew Roots of the Book of Mormon

Post by larsenb »

What is Rob's background? His site doesn't offer much information in sofar as I was able to determine.

In the late '90's and early part of the first decade, there was a fellow who called himself Rabbi Joseph, who was putting out similar information. I wonder if he is the same as Rob, or if Rob knew him.

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marc
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Re: Hebrew Roots of the Book of Mormon

Post by marc »

I don't know about his background. Would you like me to ask him?

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Re: Hebrew Roots of the Book of Mormon

Post by larsenb »

marc wrote: May 7th, 2018, 2:34 pm I don't know about his background. Would you like me to ask him?
Sure. Ask him if he's heard about Rabbi Joseph, as well. And find out such things as whether he is a current member of the Church and if so, what his conversion story is.

From viewing his web site, my guess is that he will be reluctant to make this kind of info public.

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marc
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Re: Hebrew Roots of the Book of Mormon

Post by marc »

I sent him a message with a link to this discussion.

larsenb
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Re: Hebrew Roots of the Book of Mormon

Post by larsenb »

Rob's work with the Book of Mormon seems like a logical thing to do, in the light of the prophecies about it finally going to the Jews. And it seems well timed, in view of Brian Stubbs work with finding strong elements of Hebrew/Egyptian/Semitic languages in Uto-Aztecan languages.

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marc
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Re: Hebrew Roots of the Book of Mormon

Post by marc »

Rob just messaged me and told me he's never heard of Rabbi Joseph. He playfully wrote this little bio, which he said I could post here:
Robert Jacob Kay is a Jewish convert to Mormonism. He was born of unconventional parents and therefore was taught somewhat in all the learning of his father. And having seen many afflictions in the course of his days among a bunch of gentiles, nevertheless, having been highly favored of the Lord in all his days he had a great desire for the knowledge of the goodness and the mysteries of God.

Robert is an avid researcher of the Hebrew Roots of the Book of Mormon. Besides having a degree in Mathematics and an MBA he has spent many years studying the Hebrew language and culture. He was schooled in the Talmud and several esoteric disciplines of the Jewish people.

larsenb
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Re: Hebrew Roots of the Book of Mormon

Post by larsenb »

Thanks, marc. If you get a chance, you should ask him what he thinks of Brian Stubb's work in discovering and analyzing Semitic/Hebrew cognates in Uto-Aztecan languages.

gardener4life
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Re: Hebrew Roots of the Book of Mormon

Post by gardener4life »

larsenb wrote: May 8th, 2018, 5:17 pm Thanks, marc. If you get a chance, you should ask him what he thinks of Brian Stubb's work in discovering and analyzing Semitic/Hebrew cognates in Uto-Aztecan languages.
That's nice of you to mention Brian Stubbs work. He has been trying to analyze and learn Uto-Aztecan languages for a LONG time. My grandfather knew him and he was working on these projects about 30 years ago even. (Not exact figure.) It's pretty amazing that people can work hard on stuff like this to try to help people build their testimonies. (And yes I am aware evidence doesn't create testimonies. But if it can help open the door for openmindedness I think that's exciting.)

larsenb
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Re: Hebrew Roots of the Book of Mormon

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larsenb wrote: May 8th, 2018, 5:17 pm Thanks, marc. If you get a chance, you should ask him what he thinks of Brian Stubb's work in discovering and analyzing Semitic/Hebrew cognates in Uto-Aztecan languages.
So, marc, have you asked Rob about this yet?

Brad

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marc
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Re: Hebrew Roots of the Book of Mormon

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Oops, sorry. I forgot. I'll ask him today.

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marc
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Re: Hebrew Roots of the Book of Mormon

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He just replied and said he's not familiar with Stubb's work.

larsenb
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Re: Hebrew Roots of the Book of Mormon

Post by larsenb »

marc wrote: May 14th, 2018, 8:08 am He just replied and said he's not familiar with Stubb's work.


Stubb's had two books out on the subject:

1. Exploring the Explanatory Power of Semitic and Egypitan in Uto-Aztecan, 2015, which contains the body of his comparative work. Amazon has one used copy listed at an unbelievable asking price of: $3,214.59. This indicates considerable demand, and will undoubtedly lead Stubbs to publish further editions. I've got this, and am toying with the idea of turning it into cash 8-)

2. Changes in Languages from Nephi to Now, 2016. The Amazon blurb says:
Believers and non-believers have both assembled their separate sets of misconceptions about the Book of Mormon. So as truth emerges, everyone gets to be surprised in some ways, including the author. Previous thoughts on Book of Mormon language have been tethered to the text. As a linguist, knowledgeable in Egyptian and Semitic languages, and as a leading authority in a relevant Native American language family, the author brings together evidence for an enlightening line of language history from Nephi to Now. His studies in comparative Uto-Aztecan clarify a number of Book of Mormon language matters.

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marc
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Re: Hebrew Roots of the Book of Mormon

Post by marc »

3+ Grand!? Yeah, get some cash.

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Re: Hebrew Roots of the Book of Mormon

Post by larsenb »

marc wrote: May 14th, 2018, 11:13 am 3+ Grand!? Yeah, get some cash.
Apparently, his first book on this subject came out in 2010, Uto-Aztecan: A Comparative Vocabulary.

Here is an image of the Exploring the Explanatory Power of Semitic and Egyptian in Uto-Aztecan 2015 book on Amazon:

Stubbs.JPG
Stubbs.JPG (50.7 KiB) Viewed 248 times

The asking price is a bit hard to believe

Here is a review of this book by Kirk Magleby:
This book is not for the faint of heart. It is solid, meaty, full of technical details a trained linguist can really sink their teeth into. Brian Stubbs has toiled for decades as one of the foremost Uto-Aztecan linguists on the planet. Many thought his highly-acclaimed 2011 Uto-Aztecan: A Comparative Vocabulary would be his magnum opus. Turns out it was only Stubbs' warm-up act. All these years he has been patiently gathering massive data that shows profound Semitic and Egyptian influences in the language family spoken by Utes and Shoshoni on the north, Nahua on the south, and Hopi in between. This is a revolutionary, paradigm-changing book. Native American cultures did not live for millennia in splendid isolation between the impassable Atlantic and impenetrable Pacific. Cultural contact with the Old World pre-dated the Norse in Newfoundland as Michael Coe is now suggesting with Angkor Wat/Maya correlations. Brian Stubbs deserves to be read carefully. I highly recommend this book for serious students of native American cultures.

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marc
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Re: Hebrew Roots of the Book of Mormon

Post by marc »

Well, bummer. If not for the price, I'd certainly scoop one up.

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