How are Humans Created in Mormonism

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The Christian can never lose salvation. A Christian was born-again. God regenerated my spirit, gave me a spirit of eternal life and the Holy Spirit to indwell my spirit, once saved always saved.

The Mormon though show his salvation is by works in all he can do explains why the Mormon admittedly could lose salvation.

Therein lies the difference. One is real and secure, the other is based on works like temple work and baptizing and helping the poor to know if one is saved, and if they tire of it, and leave it, they lose their perceived salvation.

If you watch the clips posted above and make an honest attempt to understand what are saying you may feel differently. Otherwise you will most likely just put words in our mouth that you are convinced we believe without taking any thought to how we actually think and feel about Christ and his grace.

[Parture]

In the first video he said you can't earn your way to the kingdom; but that is a lie, since depending on how much you earn and perform, you will end up in one of various kingdoms.

Nobody is really satisfied with the revisionism for "we are saved after all we can do" by trying to deny "after" is "because". Nor is anyone satisfied with redefinition salvation as not initial salvation.

The speaker in the first video was doubletongued because he says we have do all we can do to be saved and then says it is not because of all that we can do.

This is really problematic. So many Mormon/LDS leaders (so many quotes) have taught it is various things you must do before you can be saved. They have it right in Mormonism, but it is all so wrong in Christianity.

Satan is the author of confusion and the father of lies.

Mormonism is constantly evolving and revising, but some things they will never revise is the Triune Godhead of the 3 Persons of the Trinity they will reject for eternity, and I don't believe the will ever accept the uncreated Creator who brought time and space and matter into existence.

Mormons are too died down to the world to think in human terms for that.

The Bible says no marriage in heaven; Mormons say it is. Therefore, Mormonism is not another testament of Jesus by the evil spirit trying to create a facsimile to try to keep you unsaved after all you can do.

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In the first video he said you can't earn your way to the kingdom; but that is a lie, since depending on how much you earn and perform, you will end up in one of various kingdoms.

Nobody is really satisfied with the revisionism for "we are saved after all we can do" by trying to deny "after" is "because". Nor is anyone satisfied with redefinition salvation as not initial salvation.

The speaker in the first video was doubletongued because he says we have do all we can do to be saved and then says it is not because of all that we can do.

This is really problematic. So many Mormon/LDS leaders (so many quotes) have taught it is various things you must do before you can be saved. They have it right in Mormonism, but it is all so wrong in Christianity.

Satan is the author of confusion and the father of lies.

Mormonism is constantly evolving and revising, but some things they will never revise is the Triune Godhead of the 3 Persons of the Trinity they will reject for eternity, and I don't believe the will ever accept the uncreated Creator who brought time and space and matter into existence.

Mormons are too died down to the world to think in human terms for that.

The Bible says no marriage in heaven; Mormons say it is. Therefore, Mormonism is not another testament of Jesus by the evil spirit trying to create a facsimile to try to keep you unsaved after all you can do.

Did you get a chance to watch the second video? Maybe something will click for you in that one.

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The second video is false because in order to be saved you have to endure to the end, among other things.

Words have meaning and this is what Ne. said.

Does the Mormon faith look like grace? Not at all. Mormons have held the belief in many lies such as swords, chariots, Jewish DNA and horses in the Americas.

Lies eventually break down and do you harm. Does grace tear God apart into 3 beings? Of course not.

Does grace reject the God who created all things, including time and space.

How does Mormonism really differentiate from Atheism since both teach and infinite regress of cause and effects. There is such a thing as Satanic grace. Are Mormons confusing God's grace with Satanic grace?

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I can see how Mormons are lost in Mormonism because these are very charismatic speakers and coherent in their own way. The problem of course remains we are not saved by grace after all we can do. We are saved by grace in spite of all we can do. I understand there those in Mormon circles attempting to change this passage to read as I wrote it and created a Revised Version of the Book of Mormon, but this only shows the infighting of Mormons they can't agree on this and even if such revisionism takes hold, it is dishonest because it goes against all that was taught prior. You are not saved by enduring to the end. Rather Christians are already saved, can never lose salvation, and run the raced to the end by the grace of God. Enduring to the end is not a salvation that can be lost, but a salvation that can be rewarded to return with Christ to reign over the nations for 1000 years before the New City and New Earth commence. There is not a single planet in the universe that is habitable according to scientists who run the numbers. There is no place for Mormon Father Gods to reign. Remember a lie eventually breaks down and does harm to you and others.

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You want to be saved by something less than the uncreated Creator. This shows how you despise God. You want to be saved by a man who went through mortal probation to become a god. Only the Creator of time and space can pay for your sins. No man, no previous sinner, can do that. The Mormon Jesus was God but didn't have to go through mortal probation as his own father did? That makes no sense. Would not Jesus have to go through mortal probation? But where did he go through mortal probation? He was on earth, never sinned. Was that his mortal probation? Do you see the problems? These problems flow from an initial mistake assumption that God did not create time, space and matter.

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The second video is false because in order to be saved you have to endure to the end, among other things.

Words have meaning and this is what Ne. said.

Does the Mormon faith look like grace? Not at all. Mormons have held the belief in many lies such as swords, chariots, Jewish DNA and horses in the Americas.

Lies eventually break down and do you harm. Does grace tear God apart into 3 beings? Of course not.

Does grace reject the God who created all things, including time and space.

How does Mormonism really differentiate from Atheism since both teach and infinite regress of cause and effects. There is such a thing as Satanic grace. Are Mormons confusing God's grace with Satanic grace?

Thanks for watching, but he actually doesnt' say that enduring to the end is what saves us. This is what he actually says and I'll walk you through it to help you understand how we feel about Grace .

Christ asks us to show faith in Him, repent, make and keep covenants, receive the Holy Ghost, and endure to the end. By complying, we are not paying the demands of justice—not even the smallest part. Instead, we are showing appreciation for what Jesus Christ did by using it to live a life like His

We endure to the end not to earn salvation but because it is how we show God we are grateful for his grace or as Elder Uchtdorft says,

"Salvation cannot be bought with the currency of obedience; it is purchased by the blood of the Son of God. Thinking that we can trade our good works for salvation is like buying a plane ticket and then supposing we own the airline. Or thinking that after paying rent for our home, we now hold title to the entire planet earth. Why Then Obey? Brothers and sisters, we obey the commandments of God—out of love for Him!"

Switching gears does your church have a youth program?

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Did you know Mormonism is at the slowest growth rate in 100 years? There is a reason for that. It doesn't have anything on Christianity. People realize if Christianity is true then there is no need to go to cults trying to create a facsimile. You don't need to worship a God who disappeared for 18 centuries.

You got the wrong video. The matter before us is salvation. Are we saved after all we can do? We are not graced after all we can do. We are saved after all we can do which is a work and we are not saved by works lest anyone should boast.

I can see why Mormons are so conflicted because some speakers will talk about being saved and downplaying saved by grace after all we can do. The 2nd video totally avoided the subject. Mormons are confused. Which is it they ask? Are we saved after all we can do? or are saved in spite of all we do?

I believe these two speakers are going to Hell because the reject the Triune God and have a really hard time dealing with the phrase we are saved after all we can do. The mostly avoided it.

Christ is not Christ in Mormonism.

These speakers are really crying for their dwindling youth, less profit.

[Parture]

The second video is false because in order to be saved you have to endure to the end, among other things.

Words have meaning and this is what Ne. said.

Does the Mormon faith look like grace? Not at all. Mormons have held the belief in many lies such as swords, chariots, Jewish DNA and horses in the Americas.

Lies eventually break down and do you harm. Does grace tear God apart into 3 beings? Of course not.

Does grace reject the God who created all things, including time and space.

How does Mormonism really differentiate from Atheism since both teach and infinite regress of cause and effects. There is such a thing as Satanic grace. Are Mormons confusing God's grace with Satanic grace?

Thanks for watching, but he actually doesnt' say that enduring to the end is what saves us. This is what he actually says and I'll walk you through it to help you understand how we feel about Grace .

Christ asks us to show faith in Him, repent, make and keep covenants, receive the Holy Ghost, and endure to the end. By complying, we are not paying the demands of justice—not even the smallest part. Instead, we are showing appreciation for what Jesus Christ did by using it to live a life like His

We endure to the end not to earn salvation but because it is how we show God we are grateful for his grace or as Elder Uchtdorft says,

"Salvation cannot be bought with the currency of obedience; it is purchased by the blood of the Son of God. Thinking that we can trade our good works for salvation is like buying a plane ticket and then supposing we own the airline. Or thinking that after paying rent for our home, we now hold title to the entire planet earth. Why Then Obey? Brothers and sisters, we obey the commandments of God—out of love for Him!"

Switching gears does your church have a youth program?

In NOT enduring to the end a person can lose salvation in Mormonism so this is a false salvation initiated by being saved after all you can do.

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I think you would be greatly helped by listening to what your greatest leaders have said so you can know Mormonism is attempting revisionism. This is what Mormons traditionally believed.

James Faust sees doing “all that you can do” as “sincerely repent[ing]” and fully repaying our debt to Christ:
“All of us have sinned and need to repent to fully pay our part of the debt. When we sincerely repent, the Savior’s magnificent Atonement pays the rest of that debt. (2 Nephi 25:23)”[fn]James E. Faust, “The Atonement: Our Greatest Hope,” Ensign, Nov. 2001, p. 18. Emphasis original.[/fn]
The passage is often used as a contrast to the evangelical doctrine of salvation by grace alone through faith alone:
“Many people think they need only confess that Jesus is the Christ and then they are saved by grace alone. We cannot be saved by grace alone, ‘for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.'” – James E. Faust (ibid.)

All cults do something to Jesus. They present Jesus for salvation plus something else.

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Since I watched the two videos you gave me and they didn't address the matter specifically of being saved after all we can do, watch this video for someone who will address the matter. He was born and raised in the LDS and was an Apologist for Mormonism who wrote a book in defense of Mormonism and did seminars and debates to make the Mormon case. He is now a Christian and is able to understand because he stepped out of the very box most Mormons have closed themselves within.

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Parture I wish you well, I am going to go ahead and bow out of the discussion as I can see that it probably will not end up being very productive, but in the meantime I at least hope to end on something we both can agree on. This song is awesome:

So good. God bless my friend.

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It's a simple thing for me. We are not saved after all we do. We are saved in spite of all we do. Praise the Lord!

"No, despite all these things, overwhelming victory is ours through Christ, who loved us" (Rom. 8.37).

I think Joseph Smith got careless with some phrases.

Smith even said we have to endure (after all we can do) to the end in order to be saved. Mormons can use a lot of the same Christian terminology but notice the slip ups inserted needing works to be saved to enter the kingdom.

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That's funny.

Outer darkness is for ex-Mormons (nothing could be more horrific, yet still not Hell)
Terrestial is for murderers and rapists (lower heaven, but still better than Outer darkness)
Telestial (belief in Jesus but that's all, failing to do all the works to get to the Celestial (salvation by works)
Celestial (temple work, missionary work, marriage in the temple, all kinds of other junk)

There is no Hell in Mormonism. Hell is an eternal separation from God. Apparently God the Father's presence is only in the Celestial.

Jesus spoke on Hell more than anyone. Hell is not Outer Darkness in Christianity. Outer darkness in Christianity is that place outside the light of rewards of reigning with Christ during the millennial kingdom. All believers in Christianity are saved, but only Overcomers return with Christ to reign during the 1000 years as kings and priests when Jesus reigns from the 3rd Temple newly constructed.

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Christian outer darkness is like this. Imagine you are painting a house but you are really sloppy and careless. You get paint all over your body. In order to get it off you rub some solvent or gasoline to get the paint off before you can go in the shower. It stings. It's a punishment. This is like outer darkness. Only after that can you enter the heavenly shower.

Another example is it is like a log cabin in the darkened forest and it is beautifully lit. Those in outer darkness can peer in but not allowed to enter. Not until their marriage supper of the lamb the millennial reign takes place can they then join the inhabitants and go the to the New City.

Christians are premillennial. Deeper Christians are premillennial and partial rapture believers.

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What God would tell us to throw out the Bible?

2 Ne. 29.6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?

Sounds racist against the Jews. After all Mormonism takes place not in Judea but Utah or Missouri.

[Durzan]

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Parture, its one thing to ask sincere questions or have civil discussions. Its another to accuse and slander us in a PRO-LDS FORUM. Please be respectful while you are on these forums.

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