Did they change proxy sealing policy?

[brianj]

In times past I could take names of women needing sealing to their parents to a temple, alone, and the sealer would have me at the alter in place of her father. The last several times I have been to a temple for sealings the sealer refuses to do this. I get to sit, watch, and feel useless and unneeded as other people do the work for my ancestors.

Does anyone know if the church changed policies related to proxy sealings so a guy can only participate in spousal or daughter sealings if he comes accompanied by a woman?

[moving2zion]

I was reading David J. Ridges 100 signs of the times this morning. One of the things he discusses is a woe against the members of the church that change the doctrines of the church. I also read a quote from President Taylor where he said the saints would change the principles and covenants. Each time I see another change to "procedures" in the temple I cringe. Some say it is to make the ordinance sessions shorter then I pause and remember what I was taught about the temple by my grandparents and my parents, and I see how the changes pull us further away instead of drawing us closer. In your case as you are related to the individuals whose names you are taking, I would request a chance to speak with the temple presidency- see what their input is.

[mtm411]

I have not noticed this. That is odd that they would do that.

On the temple changing, it isn't the same thing as was done in Solomon's temple. That is pretty clear since much of the language is Christ or son of God focused, which was not a concept before Christ actually came. Also, women weren't allowed in Solomon's temple, so sealings couldn't have been a thing or female endowment/initiatory. Correct me if I am wrong, these are just things I have deduced based on my own experience.

I don't think it is meant to be super literal. Brigham Young did it differently than Joseph Smith. We know this because he added avenging Joseph's life to the ceremony.

It's okay for it to change.

[brianj]

I agree that it is okay for change to happen. Here's one change I am all in favor of: initatories.

The book The House of the Lord by James Talmage was written to accompany pictures of the inside of the Salt Lake Temple. Why did the church take and release those photos? Because a disgruntled member named Gisbert Bossard snuck into the temple with a camera, took a bunch of pictures, and threatened to sell them to the media if the church didn't pay a ransom. Instead, the church released their own pictures so this guy couldn't profit from his sin. At least one of Bossard's pictures shows a bathtub in the temple. Initiatory ordinances were quite literally done and men did them all.

The change to having men administer to men and women administer to women (publicly acknowledged by the church, so I am comfortable relating) is something I consider to be a major step in the right direction. This makes the ordinances more comfortable for the women participating and greatly reduces the opportunities for abuse.

But in my situation... if there was a change so I can't kneel as a father, it's really hurtful.

[Lizzy60]

During my time as an ordinance worker a change was made so that the witness couple was always a married couple. Before that, it could be any woman and man, except for missionaries. Perhaps that has now filtered down to the temple authorities deciding that they don't want you participating as the father with a woman as mother who is not married to you. However, that's totally extreme. As ordinance workers we filled in all the time in sealings so patrons could get their work accomplished. Many times the proxy parents were not married, and often didn't know each other.

I'm sorry if the rules have been changed, as it does cause you to be unable to fully participate. It doesn't make sense to me, to have temple patrons (the most active and righteous members of the church) treated like children who can't control themselves.

[shadow]

In times past I could take names of women needing sealing to their parents to a temple, alone, and the sealer would have me at the alter in place of her father. The last several times I have been to a temple for sealings the sealer refuses to do this. I get to sit, watch, and feel useless and unneeded as other people do the work for my ancestors.

Does anyone know if the church changed policies related to proxy sealings so a guy can only participate in spousal or daughter sealings if he comes accompanied by a woman?

Has there been another single sister there? Every time I've gone I've been with my wife and other couples. I've never encountered a single brother or sister. It would be odd for the worker to have my wife sit as a wife and mother and another man sit as her husband while I sit back and watch. Not that they're actually married, but even as proxy a real husband and wife should take precedence over any appearance of 'swingers'. And don't think that men or women won't believe something like that. People get some screwy ideas. They feel the spirit performing the ordinance while holding hands and Bam!, that person must be their spiritual spouse.

If there were other single sisters in the room and they could only sit and watch too then maybe talk with someone there about the procedures.

[inho]

brianj,
Just to avoid any misunderstandings, could you clarify: were you able to act as a father or spouse at all? I mean, that is a quite big change, if a single person cannot be a proxy for father/husband or mother/wife. Or could it be that it just happened that you weren't let to be in the position that you wished in the ordinances of your relatives. I've seen sealers to assign people to their places quite randomly - it seems that the sealer didn't really checked who had brought the names. However, every time when there was ordinance work of close relatives, the sealer did include the persons in question in the ordinance.

[kittycat51]

My dad is a temple sealer. He does sealing sessions all the time with groups of Young Single Adults.

[Sunain]

Any time I've gone to the temple, they are always looking for people to be proxy's, single, divorced, widowed, whoever they can get because they are shorthanded half the time. It could just be your temple or temple presidency doing this change.

[gardener4life]

I am not aware of any changes like this. The only changes I'm aware of that were recent are making sure hands separate between names in sealings with children before continuing to the next name.

[True]

If there is a single sister and a single brother they will usually put them together. I go to the temple all alone all the time and if there is someone else there alone, they will pair them up with me. They won’t pair you up with a married person who is there with their spouse so you have to hope a sister is there alone. If you want to participate in the sealings of your family, let them know at the start. Say, “I want to take part in these.” Don’t be afraid to speak out. They don’t care (normally). Sometimes I don’t care and sometimes I really do, so usually say something.

Some temples do things differently. Since you can, you should go to a different temple and make clear up front that you want to participate.

[brianj]

Has there been another single sister there? Every time I've gone I've been with my wife and other couples. I've never encountered a single brother or sister. It would be odd for the worker to have my wife sit as a wife and mother and another man sit as her husband while I sit back and watch. Not that they're actually married, but even as proxy a real husband and wife should take precedence over any appearance of 'swingers'. And don't think that men or women won't believe something like that. People get some screwy ideas. They feel the spirit performing the ordinance while holding hands and Bam!, that person must be their spiritual spouse.

If there were other single sisters in the room and they could only sit and watch too then maybe talk with someone there about the procedures.

Yes. The last few times I was able to participate in such ordinances I either went into the sealing session with a female friend or there were no couples present. When I went with a female friend we even said that we're just friends and didn't have an issue.

[Rand]

I will check Tuesday when I am in the Temple, but, we have temple workers in sealings all the time not serving with their spouse, and that seems to be okay to use them in the capacity of son or father. Ask a member of the Temple Presidency before you leave if that ever happens again. They will give you the official policy. It doesn't sound right to me.

[Rand]

I talked to one of our sealers today, who has been a sealer for nearly 20 years. He said he has never heard of such a thing. He suggested you talk to the Temple Presidency member about this. It should not happen, and should be discussed in a training meeting so that it never happens again.

[JohnnyL]

During my time as an ordinance worker a change was made so that the witness couple was always a married couple. Before that, it could be any woman and man, except for missionaries. Perhaps that has now filtered down to the temple authorities deciding that they don't want you participating as the father with a woman as mother who is not married to you. However, that's totally extreme. As ordinance workers we filled in all the time in sealings so patrons could get their work accomplished. Many times the proxy parents were not married, and often didn't know each other.

I've visited the Ogden temple for sealings, and IIRC, I was a father proxy with a single sister mother proxy, while my wife was the daughter. For sure I was with a single sister.

Oh, and before before, single missionaries could be witness couples, too.

[brianj]

Update: Someone messaged me, suggesting that I visit with a member of a temple presidency. Today I followed that advice; I went to the Mount Timpanogos temple and spoke with a counselor in the presidency. He said that what the recent sealers did was wrong and asked me to come to him immediately if it happens again in that temple. He then found out what had been happening in my life, shared something by Vaughn J Featherstone and, after learning of my situation, he gave me a promise if I keep coming to the temple.

I only brought names for initiatories, but after those ordinances went to a sealing session. This time I was asked to kneel not just as the proxy for a son, but several times as the proxy for husbands and fathers. I've been going to temples weekly for 18 months now, only missing two weeks in that time frame, and today one of the best temple experiences I have had in that time frame.