Who is to blame?

[Mark]

The ball is still in your court.

Please explain yourself clearly in plainness what your context of bringing up cult leaders in relation to LDS leaders and what in the world you were trying to say. Because if it isn't what you meant to say, then I would say that you need to explain yourself. Because it still seems to me like you are differentiating "true Mormonism" from the corporation and still making the corporation and its leaders into something cult-like. I can't seem to come to any other conclusion on my own, but I'm willing to be taught here. Otherwise all I can do is read what I see.

All I can see is that you still were trying to insinuate something with what you were saying. What is it that you were trying to say if you were not trying to compare LDS leaders to cult leaders? You say that it is to provoke thought and contrast and comparison. What kind of contrast then? What kind of comparison? Let's quote you again:



Is it that they are "cult like" because their behavior is similar? Let's look at your words, interpolating what I think you are saying, and you can try to correct me. This isn't me trying to accuse you of anything. This is me trying to get you to clarify yourself. This is you insisting that I did not understand what you were saying, so now we perhaps may get you to somehow help us understand what you mean:



Did you not mean to say this? Therefore were you not likening LDS leaders to cult leaders? How is that much different than saying that they ARE? Please explain.

We aren't a cult. My post provides facts as to how cults function and how cult leaders function. Cults and their leaders always blame the followers. Its never the leadership that has any blame or any accountability. If only the adherents were better, if only they would have listened, if only those sinful followers would have repented, then all the goals and all of the things that have been promised would have been fulfilled. Everything would be great if the followers didn't "suck" so bad.

The OP is saying that the members of the Church are to blame for there not being "more". In the OP the leaders are completely exonerated and held blameless. I also know that for some Mormons even the suggestion of leaders being to blame is unthinkable and/or "blasphemy".

We aren't a cult and because we aren't a cult, why are we afraid to explore the idea that the leaders might be accountable and that they are to blame? Or, alternatively, why are we afraid to explore the idea that both lay members and leaders are to blame to one degree or another (which is what I believe)?

-Finrock

How are the leadership to blame? What are they not teaching that they should be? Be specific please. Pres. Nelson gave a talk recently in conference on Priesthood power. Should he be concentrating on other subjects instead? What conference talks are you waiting to hear? What would Elder Finrock be preaching at conference that would be more helpful to membership?

Have the leaders always taught correct doctrine? Lets just explore this question for starters.

And, before we get too far in to this, Mark, please don't respond unless you are going to be sincere and with real intent. I'm not interested in ad hominems, insincere comments, attempts to belittle me, etc. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here so please don't disappoint because this can be a good conversation. Please and thank you.

-Finrock

"Have the leaders always taught correct doctrine? Lets just explore this question for starters."

I should have seen that coming. Let's trot out all the things Brigham Young and Heber C Kimball and Orson Pratt and on and on said that is written in the JOD just like all the anti's love to do to try and shame the church and show that LDS leaders were wrong. Should we start with polygamy and then we can go to blacks and the Priesthood and on and on? This is so predictable. We in the church believe that Prophets receive revelation for their own time and place in history. Revelations given specifically to Moses and Abraham and Noah may not necessarily apply to our day. The Lord commands and revokes as HE sees fit. It's called continuing revelation. It's in the scriptures. Look it up. I want you to tell everyone what the Prophets and Apostles TODAY are getting wrong and what you would do or say to improve upon their messages to the Saints to bring us more spiritual power and knowledge.

[Finrock]

We aren't a cult. My post provides facts as to how cults function and how cult leaders function. Cults and their leaders always blame the followers. Its never the leadership that has any blame or any accountability. If only the adherents were better, if only they would have listened, if only those sinful followers would have repented, then all the goals and all of the things that have been promised would have been fulfilled. Everything would be great if the followers didn't "suck" so bad.

The OP is saying that the members of the Church are to blame for there not being "more". In the OP the leaders are completely exonerated and held blameless. I also know that for some Mormons even the suggestion of leaders being to blame is unthinkable and/or "blasphemy".

We aren't a cult and because we aren't a cult, why are we afraid to explore the idea that the leaders might be accountable and that they are to blame? Or, alternatively, why are we afraid to explore the idea that both lay members and leaders are to blame to one degree or another (which is what I believe)?

-Finrock

How are the leadership to blame? What are they not teaching that they should be? Be specific please. Pres. Nelson gave a talk recently in conference on Priesthood power. Should he be concentrating on other subjects instead? What conference talks are you waiting to hear? What would Elder Finrock be preaching at conference that would be more helpful to membership?

Have the leaders always taught correct doctrine? Lets just explore this question for starters.

And, before we get too far in to this, Mark, please don't respond unless you are going to be sincere and with real intent. I'm not interested in ad hominems, insincere comments, attempts to belittle me, etc. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here so please don't disappoint because this can be a good conversation. Please and thank you.

-Finrock

"Have the leaders always taught correct doctrine? Lets just explore this question for starters."

I should have seen that coming. Let's trot out all the things Brigham Young and Heber C Kimball and Orson Pratt and on and on said that is written in the JOD just like all the anti's love to do to try and shame the church and show that LDS leaders were wrong. Should we start with polygamy and then we can go to blacks and the Priesthood and on and on? This is so predictable. We in the church believe that Prophets receive revelation for their own time and place in history. Revelations given specifically to Moses and Abraham and Noah may not necessarily apply to our day. The Lord commands and revokes as HE sees fit. It's called continuing revelation. It's in the scriptures. Look it up. I want you to tell everyone what the Prophets and Apostles TODAY are getting wrong and what you would do or say to improve upon their messages to the Saints to bring us more spiritual power and knowledge.

Yes or no will suffice.

-Finrock

[Durzan]

Under your definition you are also accusing them and grouping them into cult leadership based on their words.

Before I accept this statement and before you continue to make it, please prove it. Please show me specifically where I've accused anyone of anything in my post. If you can't demonstrate it, please don't perpetuate it. Thank you!

-Finrock

The question that you posed has the underlying implication of grouping the GAs as leaders of a cult, especially since the accusation of the church being a cult is nothing new. Thus, asking that question has that implication given the context. You SHOULD know this.

God brings everything into the light in due time, both the good and the bad. Stop beating around the bush Finrock and speak plain words. Whatever your intentions are... make them plain and clear. The works of God are not kept in the shadows, so neither should yours.

[Finrock]

Under your definition you are also accusing them and grouping them into cult leadership based on their words.

Before I accept this statement and before you continue to make it, please prove it. Please show me specifically where I've accused anyone of anything in my post. If you can't demonstrate it, please don't perpetuate it. Thank you!

-Finrock

The question that you posed has the underlying implication of grouping the GAs as leaders of a cult, especially since the accusation of the church being a cult is nothing new. Thus, asking that question has that implication given the context. You SHOULD know this.

God brings everything into the light in due time, both the good and the bad. Stop beating around the bush Finrock and speak plain words. Whatever your intentions are... make them plain and clear. The works of God are not kept in the shadows, so neither should yours.

Durzan,

I've already clarified what I intended with my post. We've done moved on. Maybe you didn't read the others posts but you don't need to speculate: viewtopic.php?p=852203#p851830

-Finrock

[Mark]

"For starters, why do you think Moses was never allowed to get to the promised land? He only got to see it before he died."

Let me help you out here Finrock.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/trans ... s?lang=eng

[drtanner]

The purpose of the post is for everyone to take ownership and accountability. It is human nature to point the finger. We will never receive the promised blessings if we don’t stop doing this. Some need to realize that part of coming closer to Christ is listening and following his council through his prophet. The leaders have a responsibility communicate what they receive from the Lord.

[EdGoble]

We aren't a cult. My post provides facts as to how cults function and how cult leaders function. Cults and their leaders always blame the followers. Its never the leadership that has any blame or any accountability. If only the adherents were better, if only they would have listened, if only those sinful followers would have repented, then all the goals and all of the things that have been promised would have been fulfilled. Everything would be great if the followers didn't "suck" so bad.

The OP is saying that the members of the Church are to blame for there not being "more". In the OP the leaders are completely exonerated and held blameless. I also know that for some Mormons even the suggestion of leaders being to blame is unthinkable and/or "blasphemy".

We aren't a cult and because we aren't a cult, why are we afraid to explore the idea that the leaders might be accountable and that they are to blame? Or, alternatively, why are we afraid to explore the idea that both lay members and leaders are to blame to one degree or another (which is what I believe)?

-Finrock

Ok. now we have something to go off of that communicates clearly what you are saying. Sorry. I see what you are saying now. However, I think you can't blame me for seeing what I thought I saw. Now.....

Well, let me put it this way. It's not that the leaders are not culpable or accountable. That is a given that they ARE as well as the membership, and you happen to be right about that. I would never deny human fallibility. However... It's about the propriety of putting the magnifying glass on the leaders and pointing the finger, even though it may be a fact, and even though rational humans know it is a fact. In other words, I don't deny what you are saying. I'm saying, it is possible that you are out of order for focusing on it. Dragging leaders' names through the mud is wrong, regardless of the facts of a matter, that any human can see, and that we have all witnessed time and time again. In other words, our covenants ask of us a certain standard of behavior and a certain standard for our words regardless of the truth of a matter about the fact that the leaders are also responsible. Therefore, I am talking about how we treat their names and their dignity and their honor. You are talking about facts. I don't deny the facts. I point out to you the standard that I believe is expected of us for our behavior and our words. But I submit that the failures of the leadership are very small in comparison to their accomplishments. And they are doing the best they can. And I think that it was a poor thing to make a comparison to cult leadership, even though that wasn't what you were precisely saying.

However, the point of the OP I think stands because it is still more about the failures of the membership about the Lord's timing for when we get more light and knowledge. It seems that the readiness of the leadership is a much smaller factor, at least in my mind. In fact, it seems minuscule in comparison.

[Finrock]

We aren't a cult. My post provides facts as to how cults function and how cult leaders function. Cults and their leaders always blame the followers. Its never the leadership that has any blame or any accountability. If only the adherents were better, if only they would have listened, if only those sinful followers would have repented, then all the goals and all of the things that have been promised would have been fulfilled. Everything would be great if the followers didn't "suck" so bad.

The OP is saying that the members of the Church are to blame for there not being "more". In the OP the leaders are completely exonerated and held blameless. I also know that for some Mormons even the suggestion of leaders being to blame is unthinkable and/or "blasphemy".

We aren't a cult and because we aren't a cult, why are we afraid to explore the idea that the leaders might be accountable and that they are to blame? Or, alternatively, why are we afraid to explore the idea that both lay members and leaders are to blame to one degree or another (which is what I believe)?

-Finrock

Ok. now we have something to go off of that communicates clearly what you are saying. Sorry. I see what you are saying now. However, I think you can't blame me for seeing what I thought I saw. Now.....

Well, let me put it this way. It's not that the leaders are not culpable or accountable. That is a given that they ARE as well as the membership, and you happen to be right about that. I would never deny human fallibility. However... It's about the propriety of putting the magnifying glass on the leaders and pointing the finger, even though it may be a fact, and even though rational humans know it is a fact. In other words, I don't deny what you are saying. I'm saying, it is possible that you are out of order for focusing on it. Dragging leaders' names through the mud is wrong, regardless of the facts of a matter, that any human can see, and that we have all witnessed time and time again. In other words, our covenants ask of us a certain standard of behavior and a certain standard for our words regardless of the truth of a matter about the fact that the leaders are also responsible. Therefore, I am talking about how we treat their names and their dignity and their honor. You are talking about facts. I don't deny the facts. I point out to you the standard that I believe is expected of us for our behavior and our words. But I submit that the failures of the leadership are very small in comparison to their accomplishments. And they are doing the best they can. And I think that it was a poor thing to make a comparison to cult leadership, even though that wasn't what you were precisely saying.

However, the point of the OP I think stands because it is still more about the failures of the membership about the Lord's timing for when we get more light and knowledge. It seems that the readiness of the leadership is a much smaller factor, at least in my mind. In fact, it seems minuscule in comparison.

Even though I don't agree with everything you are saying here, at least you are engaging in a sincere discussion which I recognize and appreciate. When I have more time I'll give a more detailed response.

-Finrock

[Finrock]

The purpose of the post is for everyone to take ownership and accountability. It is human nature to point the finger. We will never receive the promised blessings if we don’t stop doing this. Some need to realize that part of coming closer to Christ is listening and following his council through his prophet. The leaders have a responsibility communicate what they receive from the Lord.

This doesn't make any sense to me. You are saying that the lay members are to blame for there not being more. You pointed the fingers at the lay members. The real answer to your OP question is more involved than just "The members are to blame". Not sure why you think its OK to point the fingers at lay members but if we point fingers at leaders "we will never received promised blessings". That's not being consistent. The responses here have proven my point. No, we aren't a cult, yet here you guys are hyperventilating at the mere suggestion that leaders are accountable too for our current condition. Suggesting that leaders have a role in our current condition somehow magically (remember, we aren't a cult) equates to "dragging someone's name through the mud" or "evil speaking of the Lord's anointed". Its a bit messed up.

Its the hypocritical and inconsistent application of principles and truths that is the real issue here, in my view.

But, I understand that this thread wasn't intended to be a place where individuals actually explore the question that was being postulated. It was created as a response to ideas that you find offensive or problematic and it was designed to insulate, protect, and to defend the "brethren".

-Finrock

[drtanner]

The purpose of the post is for everyone to take ownership and accountability. It is human nature to point the finger. We will never receive the promised blessings if we don’t stop doing this. Some need to realize that part of coming closer to Christ is listening and following his council through his prophet. The leaders have a responsibility communicate what they receive from the Lord.

This doesn't make any sense to me. You are saying that the lay members are to blame for there not being more. You pointed the fingers at the lay members. The real answer to your OP question is more involved than just "The members are to blame". Not sure why you think its OK to point the fingers at lay members but if we point fingers at leaders "we will never received promised blessings". That's not being consistent. The responses here have proven my point. No, we aren't a cult, yet here you guys are hyperventilating at the mere suggestion that leaders are accountable too for our current condition. Suggesting that leaders have a role in our current condition somehow magically (remember, we aren't a cult) equates to "dragging someone's name through the mud" or "evil speaking of the Lord's anointed". Its a bit messed up.

Its the hypocritical and inconsistent application of principles and truths that is the real issue here, in my view.

But, I understand that this thread wasn't intended to be a place where individuals actually explore the question that was being postulated. It was created as a response to ideas that you find offensive or problematic and it was designed to insulate, protect, and to defend the "brethren".

-Finrock

Maybe I should have made bold the last part of the post to help clarify. “The leaders have a responsibility to communicate what they receive from the lord” and they to should be held accountable to that. How do we hold them accountable? By gaining our own witness that they are a mouthpiece for him and when they speak getting a confirmation that it is true. So Long as that is accomplished the blame is on us to follow what the lord has communicated through them. I think some members are also to blame for blindly following without a witness from the Holy Ghost. This has nothing to do with insulating or protecting anyone. As mentioned it is about ownership and accountability so we can receive promised blesssings.

[Mark]

The purpose of the post is for everyone to take ownership and accountability. It is human nature to point the finger. We will never receive the promised blessings if we don’t stop doing this. Some need to realize that part of coming closer to Christ is listening and following his council through his prophet. The leaders have a responsibility communicate what they receive from the Lord.

This doesn't make any sense to me. You are saying that the lay members are to blame for there not being more. You pointed the fingers at the lay members. The real answer to your OP question is more involved than just "The members are to blame". Not sure why you think its OK to point the fingers at lay members but if we point fingers at leaders "we will never received promised blessings". That's not being consistent. The responses here have proven my point. No, we aren't a cult, yet here you guys are hyperventilating at the mere suggestion that leaders are accountable too for our current condition. Suggesting that leaders have a role in our current condition somehow magically (remember, we aren't a cult) equates to "dragging someone's name through the mud" or "evil speaking of the Lord's anointed". Its a bit messed up.

Its the hypocritical and inconsistent application of principles and truths that is the real issue here, in my view.

But, I understand that this thread wasn't intended to be a place where individuals actually explore the question that was being postulated. It was created as a response to ideas that you find offensive or problematic and it was designed to insulate, protect, and to defend the "brethren".

-Finrock

You are still hung up on the thought that leadership is jointly to blame for memberships lack of reaching their spiritual potentials. So here is my challenge to you. Go back and listen to or read the past several conference talks by our leaders. Now make note of what they are asking the membership to be practicing daily in their lives. What suggestions are they giving (begging) us to be doing? What principles are they testifying of? Then come back and tell me that if the members were consistent in following the counsels and suggestions of these leaders that they would not be having greater spiritual experiences and stronger faith and reliance on the Lord Jesus Christ. In fact would they not be experiencing a massive spiritual rebirth process like many in ancient times experienced? I believe they would. The problem is that many in the church do NOT do what they should be doing daily and hence they live beneath their spiritual potentials. They get caught up in Babylon and start to blend in with the world. Are the leaders warning against this? YES! How is it their fault that many of the membership are often weak and lack faith and follow through? Blaming the leadership for memberships lacks in living their covenants and keeping the commandments is just baloney. It is just not honest. Those who are consistently following the leaders suggestions and admonitions are seeing greater spiritual power and more spiritual guidance in their lives. That is just a fact.

[marc]

The people had only themselves to blame. They had just expelled from their material world, bringing with them all their worldliness while celebrating how special they were to be God's covenant people. But when Moses descended the mount with God's personal invitation to ascend with him and obtain that covenant, they stood afar off afraid and chose instead to let Moses become a mediator for The Great Mediator. They forfeited the opportunity to be redeemed as the people of Enoch, settling instead for dead works and calling themselves enlightened for it--well, unless, that is, some few actually were enlightened.

Numbers 11:25 And the Lord came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

26 But there remained two of the men in the camp, the name of the one was Eldad, and the name of the other Medad: and the spirit rested upon them; and they were of them that were written, but went not out unto the tabernacle: and they prophesied in the camp.

27 And there ran a young man, and told Moses, and said, Eldad and Medad do prophesy in the camp.

28 And Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of Moses, one of his young men, answered and said, My lord Moses, forbid them.

29 And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the Lord’s people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!

In Zion, all are prophets. None need say know ye God? All will know Him and require no spokesperson. Until then, I have nobody to blame but myself for my relationship or lack thereof with Jesus Christ.

[Thinker]

Fast forward a few years after Moses came back down from the mountain, everyone was living the lower law, drawing near to the Lord through lips and rote actions but lacking true power and experiencing nothing personally. Perhaps "perceived" revelations had stopped from Moses but who was to blame. Was it Moses fault for not revealing more about what they could have? or Was it their fault for not following the counsel of a prophet?

Moses commanded them to not kill and steal. Basics that they disobeyed after Moses died and they killed the inhabitants and stole their land. But can you blame them for it all? Isn’t at least some of it circumstances of having wandered in the wilderness for 40 years after being slaves in Egypt for hundreds of years? Mass killers need justice but I also believe people who hurt others are hurting so blaming them on top of that isn’t as productive as trying to understand WHY they did what they did so we can learn, live and love a bit better.

In Like Manner Lehi and Nephi experience a prophets woe:

1 And it came to pass that after I, Nephi, had been carried away in the Spirit, and seen all these things, I returned to the tent of my father.

2 And it came to pass that I beheld my brethren, and they were disputing one with another concerning the things which my father had spoken unto them.

3 For he truly spake many great things unto them, which were hard to be understood, save a man should inquire of the Lord; and they being hard in their hearts, therefore they did not look unto the Lord as they ought.

6 And it came to pass that after I had received strength I spake unto my brethren, desiring to know of them the cause of their disputations.

7 And they said: Behold, we cannot understand the words which our father hath spoken concerning the natural branches of the olive tree, and also concerning the Gentiles.

8 And I said unto them: Have ye inquired of the Lord?

9 And they said unto me: We have not; for the Lord maketh no such thing known unto us.

10 Behold, I said unto them: How is it that ye do not keep the commandments of the Lord? How is it that ye will perish, because of the hardness of your hearts?

11 Do ye not remember the things which the Lord hath said?—If ye will not harden your hearts, and ask me in faith, believing that ye shall receive, with diligence in keeping my commandments, surely these things shall be made known unto you.

The war in heaven was about free agency, right? Maybe that’s partly why we tend to cling to pride and the illusion that we have it all under control, when really if we humble ourselves and ask God, everything turns out way better and in the bigger (more important) picture.

And now we have a modern prophet urging the following:

Oh, there is so much more that your Father in Heaven wants you to know. As Elder Neal A. Maxwell taught, “To those who have eyes to see and ears to hear, it is clear that the Father and the Son are giving away the secrets of the universe!”13

For staters, we have a Heavenly Mother. At the beginning of Christianity, before the “Universal” (Catholic) church dominated what & how THEY wanted represented in scripture, the Holy Ghost symbolized a dove, named Sophia - or more importantly, Heavenly Mother, the other half of Heavenly Father. Who is to blame for the neglect of such a significant spiritual truth? And how, as a consequence, has that led people to regard women? Maybe the one extreme (of ignoring Feminine Divinity) can be at least partly responsible for extreme feminism.

Nothing opens the heavens quite like the combination of increased purity, exact obedience, earnest seeking, daily feasting on the words of Christ in the Book of Mormon,14 and regular time committed to temple and family history work.

In my experience and based on Christ’s higher commandments, what opens the heavens more than anything is loving, especially those who are in fatal need of it. Almost 1,000,000,000 of our brothers and sisters are “chronically hungry” according to the WHO. Many die every day of related causes. Who is to blame? I’m not referring to the many who have taken advantage of government welfare for generations. I’m referring to those who don’t have any resources to help them out of an economic pit, often which others have dug for them. I’m referring to those who don’t have access to clean water and not enough food, those who suffer from diseases many of us are ignorant of. Why do they suffer when there are so many churches who collect a lot of tithes? The law of tithing (Deut. 14:28-29) commands tithing collectors to give at least 1/3 of TITHES to the poor. Dallin Oaks admitted no tithes go to the poor. Who is to blame for that? For a while, I was responsible, in part, because for a long time, my god was a church, my priority was looking good to others over helping those in need as Christ repeatedly asked me.

Maybe we love the words of Christ in the Book of Mormon but how is our temple and family history work? Do we pick and choose counsel?

Jesus said “let the dead bury the dead.” And he never charged money for temple worthiness. Over and over again, he commanded to help those in need - to love others. I wonder what he’d say today, at the focus on the dead over helping those who are alive but physically dying.

We complain that "greater" things are not revealed in conference and that these are only policy changes. We lament that we do not have additional scripture, and so on but who is to blame? Is it the prophets fault for not revealing greater things, or collectively have we said, "we have enough" Are we looking for "signs" from the prophet to first believe or do we truly believe and whole heartily follow counsel and as a result experience a witness. I can tell you that a witness is available, and that it points us closer to Christ that there is no coincidence in the counsel of President Nelson and what he is urging us all to experience. I pray that collectively we listen so we can receive more. How do we claim to follow Christ but yet doubt whom he has called as a modern day Moses? Why is the knee jerk reaction for some to put words in peoples mouths who would sustain and encourage other to listen to a prophet that say that those people put the prophet above or before Christ. Perpetuating this is part of the stumbling block.

People complain about conference often because they are looking to it as if it were God and of course they are disappointed. Similarly about scripture- there is a need to study one’s own soul - then the world is revealed in incredible ways! But until then, there is a prideful grabbing for external means to internal needs. Deep down, we know that it is dangerous to follow and prioritize anyone before God - some heed that prompting, others don’t. Perpetuating the lie that one should follow an imperfect being as if he were God is a huge stumbling block.

My plea is that if we really want more we will collectively look at who really is to blame and make changes and create a ripple effect that will allow for those promised blessings and revelations to come forward.

I hope people stop being punitively preachy. Utah leads the nation in anti-depressants, is statistically high for anxiety, pain-killer abuse, suicide and divorce. I don’t think shaming them will help as some may believe. I don’t want to blame you on top of it all and I apologize that I may be doing just that. Still, after having suffered so much shame - and still trying to get over it - I feel the need to speak up. I realize that there are times to chastize - and if done well, it can be loving by striving for what’s best, long-term. And I do believe you have good intentions. Maybe before being quick to point blame, consider that it’s possible there is much more to the situation than meets the eye.

Feeling guilt for something we have done wrong or failed to do is healthy. Shame (often in the form of blaming) is not healthy and actually counter-productive. “Shame corrodes the part of us that believes we can change.”

[drtanner]

My beloved friends, a first step on this wondrous and fulfilling path of true discipleship starts with our asking the simple question:

“Lord, is it I?”

Elder Uchtdorf:

It was our beloved Savior’s final night in mortality, the evening before He would offer Himself a ransom for all mankind. As He broke bread with His disciples, He said something that must have filled their hearts with great alarm and deep sadness. “One of you shall betray me,” He told them.

The disciples didn’t question the truth of what He said. Nor did they look around, point to someone else, and ask, “Is it him?”

Instead, “they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto him, Lord, is it I?”1

I wonder what each of us would do if we were asked that question by the Savior. Would we look at those around us and say in our hearts, “He’s probably talking about Brother Johnson. I’ve always wondered about him,” or “I’m glad Brother Brown is here. He really needs to hear this message”? Or would we, like those disciples of old, look inward and ask that penetrating question: “Is it I?”

In these simple words, “Lord, is it I?” lies the beginning of wisdom and the pathway to personal conversion and lasting change.

A Parable of Dandelions

Once there was a man who enjoyed taking evening walks around his neighborhood. He particularly looked forward to walking past his neighbor’s house. This neighbor kept his lawn perfectly manicured, flowers always in bloom, the trees healthy and shady. It was obvious that the neighbor made every effort to have a beautiful lawn.

But one day as the man was walking past his neighbor’s house, he noticed in the middle of this beautiful lawn a single, enormous, yellow dandelion weed.

It looked so out of place that it surprised him. Why didn’t his neighbor pull it out? Couldn’t he see it? Didn’t he know that the dandelion could cast seeds that could give root to dozens of additional weeds?

This solitary dandelion bothered him beyond description, and he wanted to do something about it. Should he just pluck it out? Or spray it with weed killer? Perhaps if he went under cover of night, he could remove it secretly.

These thoughts totally occupied his mind as he walked toward his own home. He entered his house without even glancing at his own front yard—which was blanketed with hundreds of yellow dandelions.

Beams and Motes

Does this story remind us of the words of the Savior?

“Why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? …

“… First cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.”2

This business of beams and motes seems to be closely related to our inability to see ourselves clearly. I’m not sure why we are able to diagnose and recommend remedies for other people’s ills so well, while we often have difficulty seeing our own.

Some years ago there was a news story about a man who believed that if he rubbed lemon juice on his face, it would make him invisible to cameras. So he put lemon juice all over his face, went out, and robbed two banks. Not much later he was arrested when his image was broadcast over the evening news. When police showed the man the videos of himself from the security cameras, he couldn’t believe his eyes. “But I had lemon juice on my face!” he protested.3

When a scientist at Cornell University heard about this story, he was intrigued that a man could be so painfully unaware of his own incompetence. To determine whether this was a general problem, two researchers invited college students to participate in a series of tests on various life skills and then asked them to rate how they did. The students who performed poorly were the least accurate at evaluating their own performance—some of them estimating their scores to be five times higher than they actually were.4

This study has been replicated in numerous ways, confirming over and over again the same conclusion: many of us have a difficult time seeing ourselves as we truly are, and even successful people overestimate their own contribution and underestimate the contributions that others make.5

It might not be so significant to overestimate how well we drive a car or how far we can drive a golf ball. But when we start believing that our contributions at home, at work, and at church are greater than they actually are, we blind ourselves to blessings and opportunities to improve ourselves in significant and profound ways.

Spiritual Blind Spots

An acquaintance of mine used to live in a ward with some of the highest statistics in the Church—attendance was high, home teaching numbers were high, Primary children were always well behaved, ward dinners included fantastic food that members rarely spilled on the meetinghouse floor, and I think there were never any arguments at Church ball.

My friend and his wife were subsequently called on a mission. When they returned three years later, this couple was astonished to learn that during the time they were away serving, 11 marriages had ended in divorce.

Although the ward had every outward indication of faithfulness and strength, something unfortunate was happening in the hearts and lives of the members. And the troubling thing is that this situation is not unique. Such terrible and often unnecessary things happen when members of the Church become disengaged from gospel principles. They may appear on the outside to be disciples of Jesus Christ, but on the inside their hearts have separated from their Savior and His teachings. They have gradually turned away from the things of the Spirit and moved toward the things of the world.

Once-worthy priesthood holders start to tell themselves that the Church is a good thing for women and children but not for them. Or some are convinced that their busy schedules or unique circumstances make them exempt from the daily acts of devotion and service that would keep them close to the Spirit. In this age of self-justification and narcissism, it is easy to become quite creative at coming up with excuses for not regularly approaching God in prayer, procrastinating the study of the scriptures, avoiding Church meetings and family home evenings, or not paying an honest tithe and offerings.

My dear brethren, will you please look inside your hearts and ask the simple question: “Lord, is it I?”

Have you disengaged—even slightly—from “the … gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to [your] trust”?6 Have you allowed “the god of this world” to darken your minds to “the light of the glorious gospel of Christ”?7

My beloved friends, my dear brethren, ask yourselves, “Where is my treasure?”

Is your heart set on the convenient things of this world, or is it focused on the teachings of the diligent Jesus Christ? “For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”8

Does the Spirit of God dwell in your hearts? Are you “rooted and grounded” in the love of God and of your fellowmen? Do you devote sufficient time and creativity to bringing happiness to your marriage and family? Do you give your energies to the sublime goal of comprehending and living “the breadth, and length, and depth, and height”9 of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ?

Brethren, if it is your great desire to cultivate Christlike attributes of “faith, virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, brotherly kindness, godliness, charity, humility, [and service],”10 Heavenly Father will make you an instrument in His hands unto the salvation of many souls.11

The Examined Life

Brethren, none of us likes to admit when we are drifting off the right course. Often we try to avoid looking deeply into our souls and confronting our weaknesses, limitations, and fears. Consequently, when we do examine our lives, we look through the filter of biases, excuses, and stories we tell ourselves in order to justify unworthy thoughts and actions.

But being able to see ourselves clearly is essential to our spiritual growth and well-being. If our weaknesses and shortcomings remain obscured in the shadows, then the redeeming power of the Savior cannot heal them and make them strengths.12 Ironically, our blindness toward our human weaknesses will also make us blind to the divine potential that our Father yearns to nurture within each of us.

So how can we shine the pure light of God’s truth into our souls and see ourselves as He sees us?

May I suggest that the holy scriptures and the talks given at general conference are an effective mirror we can hold up for self-examination.

As you hear or read the words of the ancient and modern prophets, refrain from thinking about how the words apply to someone else and ask the simple question: “Lord, is it I?”

We must approach our Eternal Father with broken hearts and teachable minds. We must be willing to learn and to change. And, oh, how much we gain by committing to live the life our Heavenly Father intends for us.

Those who do not wish to learn and change probably will not and most likely will begin to wonder whether the Church has anything to offer them.

But those who want to improve and progress, those who learn of the Savior and desire to be like Him, those who humble themselves as a little child and seek to bring their thoughts and actions into harmony with our Father in Heaven—they will experience the miracle of the Savior’s Atonement. They will surely feel God’s resplendent Spirit. They will taste the indescribable joy that is the fruit of a meek and humble heart. They will be blessed with the desire and discipline to become true disciples of Jesus Christ.

The Power of Good

Over the course of my life, I have had the opportunity to rub shoulders with some of the most competent and intelligent men and women this world has to offer. When I was younger, I was impressed by those who were educated, accomplished, successful, and applauded by the world. But over the years, I have come to the realization that I am far more impressed by those wonderful and blessed souls who are truly good and without guile.

And isn’t that what the gospel is all about and does for us? It is the good news, and it helps us to become good.

The words of the Apostle James apply to us today:

“God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. …

“Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.”13

Brethren, we must put aside our pride, see beyond our vanity, and in humility ask, “Lord, is it I?”

And if the Lord’s answer happens to be “Yes, my son, there are things you must improve, things I can help you to overcome,” I pray that we will accept this answer, humbly acknowledge our sins and shortcomings, and then change our ways by becoming better husbands, better fathers, better sons. May we from this time forward seek with all our might to walk steadfastly in the Savior’s blessed way—for seeing ourselves clearly is the beginning of wisdom.

As we do so, our bountiful God will lead us by the hand; we will “be made strong, and blessed from on high.”14

My beloved friends, a first step on this wondrous and fulfilling path of true discipleship starts with our asking the simple question:

“Lord, is it I?”

Of this I testify and leave you my blessing in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

[Thinker]

The purpose of the post is for everyone to take ownership and accountability. It is human nature to point the finger. We will never receive the promised blessings if we don’t stop doing this.

Is leadership about blaming?
Is leadership about example?

[eddie]

The people had only themselves to blame. They had just expelled from their material world, bringing with them all their worldliness while celebrating how special they were to be God's covenant people. But when Moses descended the mount with God's personal invitation to ascend with him and obtain that covenant, they stood afar off afraid and chose instead to let Moses become a mediator for The Great Mediator. They forfeited the opportunity to be redeemed as the people of Enoch, settling instead for dead works and calling themselves enlightened for it--well, unless, that is, some few actually were enlightened.

Numbers 11:25 And the Lord came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

26 But there remained two of the men in the camp, the name of the one was Eldad, and the name of the other Medad: and the spirit rested upon them; and they were of them that were written, but went not out unto the tabernacle: and they prophesied in the camp.

27 And there ran a young man, and told Moses, and said, Eldad and Medad do prophesy in the camp.

28 And Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of Moses, one of his young men, answered and said, My lord Moses, forbid them.

29 And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the Lord’s people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!

In Zion, all are prophets. None need say know ye God? All will know Him and require no spokesperson. Until then, I have nobody to blame but myself for my relationship or lack thereof with Jesus Christ.

Well, I'm no prophet and I'm thankful to have a living Prophet in these latter days to guide and direct me. I'm also thankful for discernment in not following false prophets who rise up and deceive many.

[Thinker]

How are the leadership to blame? What are they not teaching that they should be?

Those are good questions, which, if asked and explored in a spirit of truth, could help - especially if you are going to follow someone.
To follow blindly is foolish and not of God.
But it's also good to not get too focused on negative - so maybe list pros and cons.

One aspect that is self-evident that goes counter to scripture, is how finances are handled.
Oaks admitted that no tithes go to help the poor. Yet, in Deuteronomy 14:28-29, it clearly states that 1/3 of collected TITHES are to be given to the poor. And, if you look under "tithing" in your triple combination bible dictionary or indexes, you don't find such an important scripture about how leaders are supposed to handle sacred funds. Also, scriptures repeatedly state that tithes are to be based on INCREASE, but lds leaders have changed that and said tithes are now based on income. In doing so, they put unnecessary burdens on the poor - demanding they pay what they have not to give.
To explain this... consider 2 men earn same income. 1 man is sole provider of a family of 7, and after paying all bills, has no increase left. The 2nd man lives at his parents' home where all his bills are paid for him, so all of his income is increase. To demand both men to pay the same tithes is not of God, but happens. Also, priestcraft is like charging for temple worthiness.

A part of how the church is organized is awesome! I love how we each can get involved and serve! The church is a beautiful expression of spirituality applied. I know of no other religious organization that allows even children to give talks and prayers and gets everyone so involved. The sense of community that the lds church establishes is unbeatable! Considering that social connection is one of the most important aspects of health/longevity, this is a priceless aspect of the church!

The other issue I think would be best looking into before following are some of the cognitive distortions taught. IE: "You are either on the Lord's side or you're not." That's setting people up for debilitating shame because nobody is on the Lord's side 24-7. IE: "The church is either true or not." -Another example of polarized (bi-polar) thinking, which sets it up so that when members come across something like the Ute Extermination Order or Mountain Meadow Massacre, they assume the whole church is false, when really, it is not all or nothing. Cognitive distortions are often a cause of depression - which many members suffer from. They also can cause or exasperate common problems among members like anxiety, addiction, suicide or suicidal thoughts and divorce. Not only that, but placebo effect attests to the fact that "As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he." So many people crave the healing that Christ offered and said we could all do as he did (follow HIM).

Another pro or positive of the church leadership is the high values encouraged. I appreciate those who have stood up for marriage between a man and a woman, and other controversial issues. I have often felt spiritually uplifted in listening to conference and especially the music. What I especially find valuable in my life are the many people who have helped me and/or my family in amazing ways. Nobody's perfect - we all struggle - but I think I can say that the good church teachings I learned as a youth saved my life - kept me from going the way many of my friends went. I do not see the lds gospel as a fullness - there's much more I'm just beginning to discover - but it has proven to be a valuable springboard for learning more.

[drtanner]

The purpose of the post is for everyone to take ownership and accountability. It is human nature to point the finger. We will never receive the promised blessings if we don’t stop doing this.

Is leadership about blaming?
Is leadership about example?

Leadership is about pointing to Christ, the leader.

[Thinker]

The purpose of the post is for everyone to take ownership and accountability. It is human nature to point the finger. We will never receive the promised blessings if we don’t stop doing this.

Is leadership about blaming?
Is leadership about example?

Leadership is about pointing to Christ, the leader.

Pointing to, or following Christ?

Matthew 23: “Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves...

24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.”

Jesus called out religious leaders for misleading people and for being hypocrites. He saw how many people blindly followed those religious leaders simply for their elevated social status. And he saw their bad example. Jesus was treated badly for speaking evil of who they raised up as “god’s anointed” elect, even when he spoke the truth. Jesus strongly warned against following anybody - even a prominent religious leader - above God.

[Mark]

The purpose of the post is for everyone to take ownership and accountability. It is human nature to point the finger. We will never receive the promised blessings if we don’t stop doing this.

Is leadership about blaming?
Is leadership about example?

Leadership is about pointing to Christ, the leader.

Pointing to, or following Christ?

Matthew 23: “Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.”

Jesus called out religious leaders for misleading people and for being hypocrites. He saw how many people blindly followed those religious leaders simply for their elevated social status. And he saw their bad example. Similar to some situations today in our church, Jesus was treated badly for speaking evil of who they raised up as “god’s anointed” elect.

Look Sister if you don't feel the church is run properly or is directed by the Lord through legitimate Prophets and Apostles why don't you just go find a church that best meets your own personal likes or dislikes and leave the LDS church in the rear view mirror? Coming on a public forum and complaining over and over again that LDS leadership are not doing as they should and the church is misguided and uninspired is just getting old! It's also distateful to those who actually believe in the church and its mission. Make the break and move on with your life. It will eventually happen anyway so why not just stop with the complaining and go do something productive in a church you can believe in. Or form your own based on your own beliefs. All the negativism is not good for your soul!

[drtanner]

Elder Uchtdorf:

He who humbly follows Jesus Christ will experience and share in His light. And that light will grow until it eventually dispels even the most profound darkness.

Elder Cook:

As individuals, disciples of Christ, living in a hostile world that is literally in commotion, we can thrive and bloom if we are rooted in our love of the Savior and humbly follow His teachings.

Elder Holland:

“Come as you are,” a loving Father says to each of us, but He adds, “Don’t plan to stay as you are.” We smile and remember that God is determined to make of us more than we thought we could be. In this great oratorio that is His plan for our exaltation, may we humbly follow His baton and keep working on the songs we cannot sing, until we can offer those “carols to our King.

Not to many pharisees urging us to "humbly follow" Christ. I'd say there is no correlation whatsoever to the scripture you cited and what the current apostles and prophets are encouraging the world to do, follow Christ.

President Nelson just visited 8 countries in 11 days at 93 what was his message to every single country:

Our message to you tonight is the same as the message we’ve given to others, that God lives, that Jesus is the Christ, that this is His Church restored in its fulness

No talk of himself simply testifying of Christ. What was the take away from that visit? This from another leader in the church from in Hawaii:

“I hope the members of my stake renew their commitment to follow Christ.”

IF leaders are pointing to Christ and communicating what he is revealing to them WE have ourselves to blame for not receiving promised blessings.

[Thinker]

drTanner,
From birth on, we learn primarily through example. A good leader doesn’t just talk but actively shows by example the principles he wants to lead by. Jesus lived his principles- others wrote, rewrote and likely warped them. Talk is cheap - almost anyone can read or write words. That’s not really leading. Just consider how kids respond when their parents try to lead by long lectures.

Mark,
Notice I haven’t said anything about lds leaders only what Jesus said about the religious leaders he observed. You saw the comparison yourself.


“13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.” -Matthew 23

I was wondering, is there a difference between kingdom of God & kingdom of heaven? Considering how Jesus used them interchangeably even within the same context, they are the same - or so closely related as to be no distinction. Considering how WHEN asked when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God cometh not with observation; neither shall they say, lo here or lo there. For behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” -Luke 17
The realm within us is obviously the means by which we feel the spirit and communicate God. Where else would it be? To suggest that it’s external or that one should not search one’s own soul (psych-ology) is deceptive and keeping people from entering into the kingdom of God/Heaven.

[drtanner]

drTanner,
From birth on, we learn primarily through example. A good leader doesn’t just talk but actively shows by example the principles he wants to lead by. Talk is cheap - almost anyone can read words off a teleprompter. That’s not really leading. Just consider how kids respond when their parents try to lead by long lectures.

Mark,
Notice I haven’t said anything about lds leaders only what Jesus said about the religious leaders he observed. You saw the comparison yourself.


“13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.” -Matthew 23

I was wondering, is there a difference between kingdom of God & kingdom of heaven? Considering how Jesus used them interchangeably even within the same context, they are the same - or so closely related as to be no distinction. Considering how WHEN asked when the kingdom of God would come, (& this Jesus kind of goes contrary to the full lds-name of our church) Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God cometh not with observation; neither shall they say, lo here or lo there. For behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” -Luke 17
The realm within us is obviously the means by which we feel the spirit and communicate God. Where else would it be? To suggest that it’s external or that one should not search one’s own soul (psych-ology) is deceptive and keeping people from entering into the kingdom of God/Heaven.

I would disagree. Faith comes from hearing the word of the Lord. A good amount what the savior did was talk, and I definitely wouldn't consider it cheap. But that being said I encourage you to read the about the life of Russell M Nelson (there is a good biography I can recommend) Assuming however you will not take much stock in his biography I invite you go and do a google search with the words "elder nelson came" or "elder nelson visited" and read the many private accounts of selfless service done behind the scenes. Maybe this will give you an idea what he has spent his life doing.

As far as searching our own soul vs being external I agree and would be happy to explain why, perhaps in another thread with that topic if you would like to start it.

[Thinker]

Thank you for your response drTanner.
Note that I wrote, “ A good leader doesn’t just talk but actively shows by example the principles he wants to lead by.” I didn’t suggest that leaders shouldn’t talk, but that the talking must be followed by action for the talk to be effective.

In reality, and on a daily basis, famous people (including religious leaders) are too impersonal to be effective leaders to large masses of people. So in reality, parents, friends & local leaders are who most of us are led by. I realize we are trained against Jesus’s warning - to blindly follow the prophets without knowing them by example. All we know of them are words they read. This is probably at least partly why Jesus, Moses and others warned against prioritizing anybody (including religious leaders) above God. You could be led to hell thinking its heaven.

[drtanner]

Sister Nelson is a great example of personal ownership. I find her example of going to God while even being married to the prophet a sign of her own relationship with him. She had every excuse to have a bias. In gaining her own witness she said:

That experience … is too sacred for me to share over the pulpit, but it is one that I can never forget or deny, Because of that sacred experience I can take any witness stand in any nation on earth and testify that I know that President Russell Marion Nelson has been called by God to be the living prophet of the Lord on the earth today.

Going directly to God for confirmation is part of the process of taking ownership and accountability.