President Nelson - Priesthood Power - Baptism of Fire

[Zathura]

For me, the most important thing that President Nelson has talked about twice now has to do with Priesthood Power.

The Price of Priesthood Power
-------------April 2016-----------

"I fear that there are too many men who have been given the authority of the priesthood but who lack priesthood power because the flow of power has been blocked by sins such as laziness, dishonesty, pride, immorality, or preoccupation with things of the world."

"I fear that there are too many priesthood bearers who have done little or nothing to develop their ability to access the powers of heaven. I worry about all who are impure in their thoughts, feelings, or actions or who demean their wives or children, thereby cutting off priesthood power."

"In a coming day, only those men who have taken their priesthood seriously, by diligently seeking to be taught by the Lord Himself, will be able to bless, guide, protect, strengthen, and heal others. Only a man who has paid the price for priesthood power will be able to bring miracles to those he loves and keep his marriage and family safe, now and throughout eternity."

"How else can we increase our power in the priesthood? We need to pray from our hearts. Polite recitations of past and upcoming activities, punctuated with some requests for blessings, cannot constitute the kind of communing with God that brings enduring power. Are you willing to pray to know how to pray for more power? The Lord will teach you."

"Are you willing to search the scriptures and feast on the words of Christ—to study earnestly in order to have more power"
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Ministering with the Power and Authority of God
-------------April 2018-----------

"Too many of our brothers and sisters do not fully understand the concept of priesthood power and authority"

...do not grasp the privileges that could be theirs.
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I take these messages and think of D&C 121:

We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.

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Because of my own personal experiences, I see that I am included in that. What is unrighteous dominion? what does it entail?

President Nelson mentioned pride, laziness, preoccupation for things of the world. What does that entail?
The Lord's standard is higher that ours. What is pride to God might not appear to be pride to us.

I have had priesthood power for a time and exercised it. I have had times(most of the time) where I do not have this priesthood power. This why I can testify that President Nelson is correct, he spoke truth. I absolutely see that I did not understand what I could potentially have. The flow of power was blocked by sin. When the "big" sins were gone, it was blocked by laziness. When I was diligent it was blocked by preoccupation of things of the world. When I wasn't preoccupied, wasn't lazy, was obeying the commandments, something was MISSING.
As President Nelson said, EARNEST STUDY. When I studied earnestly, something was MISSING.
As President Nelson said, PRAY FROM OUR HEARTS. When I did that repeatedly, something was MISSING.
I realized, as President Nelson says WILL HAPPEN, the Lord taught me. The Lord taught me that I CANNOT GAIN THIS POWER ON MY OWN. My efforts will never "EARN" this power.
Eventually the Holy Ghost descended upon me with great power. I was filled with Joy, and suddenly I had power that I never had before. Priesthood power.

What was this experience? I always refer to it as the Baptism of Fire, however, recently I realized that may not be the proper "technical term" for it and confuses people. I believe the Baptism of Fire and Holy Ghost is the reception of the Holy Ghost, and that is when you are reborn. I use the term Baptism of Fire because these other experiences besides the actual event where I received the Holy Ghost feel IDENTICAL to that moment, hence why I use the term Baptism of Fire.

Let me use some scriptural examples:
Alma 31:36 Now it came to pass that when Alma had said these words, that he clapped his hands upon all them who were with him. And behold, as he clapped his hands upon them, they were filled with the Holy Spirit.

Mosiah 18:12-13 12 And now it came to pass that Alma took Helam, he being one of the first, and went and stood forth in the water, and cried, saying: O Lord, pour out thy Spirit upon thy servant, that he may do this work with holiness of heart.
13 And when he had said these words, the Spirit of the Lord was upon him...

3 Nephi 19:13 And it came to pass when they were all baptized and had come up out of the water, the Holy Ghost did fall upon them, and they were filled with the Holy Ghost and with fire.

Moses 5:9 And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son,saying

Moses 6:26 And it came to pass that Enoch journeyed in the land, among the people; and as he journeyed, the Spirit of God descended out of heaven, and abode upon him.

1 Nephi 2:16 16 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, being exceedingly young, nevertheless being large in stature, and also having great desires to know of the mysteries of God, wherefore, I did cry unto the Lord; and behold he did visit me, and did soften my heart that I did believe all the words which had been spoken by my father; wherefore, I did not rebel against him like unto my brothers.

1 Nephi 1:78 And it came to pass that he returned to his own house at Jerusalem; and he cast himself upon his bed, being overcome with the Spirit and the things which he had seen.
8 And being thus overcome with the Spirit

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Okay, so here are the terms I see.
"Holy Ghost fell upon", "Spirit of God Descended", "he did visit me", Overcome with the Spirit", "They were filled".
There are more examples, but we will stick with these.

As a result of my personal experience, I believe most of these are identical to my "Baptism of Fire" experiences. "Baptism of Fire" rolls off the tongue better than "The Spirit descended upon me" .

I think some of these experiences and examples I used that we see in the scriptures are most likely those moments where it's not quite an extraordinary manifestation of the Spirit, but instead that warmth that fills and expands your soul. However, I believe a majority of these examples I used, and those like it were the "Baptism of Fire", they just didn't make a big deal out of it and referred it it as these other terms.

It is these times that I experienced the above examples /stories that I realized I finally had Priesthood Power.

I felt something watching Priesthood Session of April 2018 that I had never felt at General Conference before. I believe the President Nelson has been directed of God to urge us to do these things , so that we can have Priesthood Power and RETAIN IT.

[DesertWonderer2]

Are you saying that priesthood power only comes after the BoF? So then, what are you saying priesthood power is exactly?

[Zathura]

Are you saying that priesthood power only comes after the BoF? So then, what are you saying priesthood power is exactly?

Acts 2-3 is the first example I go to.
What happens in Acts 2? The Apostles receive the Baptism of Fire and Holy Ghost.
What happens in Acts3? They work miracles, and there is a drastic difference in their teaching , their actions, their words and the results of their work. It seems clear to me that prior miracles before their reception of the Holy Ghost must have been a result of the faith of the recipient and the apostles. In addition to that, Church leaders/academics have wondered for decades about the apparent state of the Holy Ghost during the Saviors ministry. Later, after Acts 2, it seems clear to me that instead of being dependent on faith, they have been given power from God that whatever they do or say will happen because God knows they will not ask or do anything contrary to his will, similar to when the power to loose and bind was given to Nephi.

3 Nephi 8:1
and there was not any man who could do a miracle in the name of Jesus save he were cleansed every whit from his iniquity--


How are you cleansed every whit?

3 Nephi 27:20
that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost, that ye may stand spotless before me at the last day.


There are many different scriptures I could use to make the point that I’m making, but this should suffice.
You cannot work a miracle in Jesus name without being cleansed every whit from your inquity. This idea of being cleansed every week at church, or constantly being cleansed just isn’t logical. If you are cleansed every week, that means at some point before then you are in need of being cleansed, which obviously means you are not “cleansed every whit”. The idea that you are cleansed over time means the same thing. If you are being cleansed over a long time, then as long as you are being cleans(ed), then you are not completely clean. It’s not past tense.Then the whole idea of “retaining” a remission of sins goes out the window. When Bednar talks about “continual cleansing” by the Holy Ghost, I understand that to be the “retaining” a remission of sins, because otherwise the cleansing by the Spirit and blood of Christ wasn’t really a cleansing at all if you are still in need of continual cleansing. This “continual cleansing”, or retaining a remission of sins, can only occur after the initial reception of the Holy Ghost, which is, as I have stated, an event. There is a process , but the process has a culmination, or in the words of Bednar and Mcconkie, a SEALING

I used my own personal experience because I found that it parallels with what I saw in the scriptures, and I know of no other way to portray this without using my own experience. I have found that it takes much discipline and diligence to remain in such a state where you truly have power.(My own experience is that I’m almost always preoccupied with the things of this world, and become lazy, therefore losing the power that could be given )

I think the Priesthood is what everyone says it is, the power of God/spirit of God/word of God. When you are cleansed every whit and receive power/endowment from on high, you work miracles by the power of God. When you speak, you may speak by the Power of God, and it’s as if God spoke it because it IS his mind, it IS his power.
Lectures on Faith really helps clear this up. When you receive the Holy Ghost(your annointing/endowment) and are cleansed, the Lord Abides with you, through his Holy Spirit which is his mind/will/power. It’s at that point that you can continue on, receiving a greater portion of the Lord’s Spirit grace by grace. It’s also clear that laziness and sin causes him to cease abiding with you, and thus this process is like a roller coaster, or the economy. You hit an all time high, followed by a few road bumps , eventually followed by another all time high, and thus is the process of enduring to the end. Thus is the process of seeking Christ and receiving power to serve others.

[JohnnyL]

Without a baptism of fire, you generally can't have much priesthood power--though faith is a key.

I think a lot depends on the times and needs.

Unfortunately, I see many people leaning towards technology and friends instead of the Spirit. Before that, it was secular knowledge. Where is meditating on the things of God? It's missing in much of our lives, and I feel it is a key to having priesthood power.

I also think it can have to do with your spiritual gifts.

Part of it is getting rid of latent fears.

Part of it is repenting of interesting and particular things, not just general repentance.

I think it is continual cleansing. For the great majority of people in mortality, the state you are talking about as "permanent" isn't going to happen. It would literally drain the strength out of us, and we would soon die. (Remember the JS story about the blessings and why he could give more and be ok, and the other guy was ready to pass out.) There is no peak to the spiritual mountain here.

Using the priesthood correctly ALSO brings a "cleansing of every whit". We will "never be enough", but the HG qualifies someone.

[Zathura]

Are you saying that priesthood power only comes after the BoF? So then, what are you saying priesthood power is exactly?

Another gem to help:

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you

Why did Jesus not tell Peter "Ye shall receive power, after you are ordained an Apostle and given the Priesthood"?

Our church believes and teaches that the Savior laid his hands upon the Apostles and set them apart, and ordained them as Apostles. We teach that they were given the Priesthood at that time. If that's the case, why were they not given power until after?

It wasn't until after Jesus had been resurrected, and then again AFTER he continued among them for a time before leaving that they were given power, which came when the Holy Ghost came and filled them with fire.

It's because the Priesthood is inseparably connected to the powers of Heaven. It is the Holy Ghost that gives power. It is by the power of the Holy Ghost that a priesthood holder will do any miracle.

[Zathura]

Without a baptism of fire, you generally can't have much priesthood power--though faith is a key.

I think a lot depends on the times and needs.

Unfortunately, I see many people leaning towards technology and friends instead of the Spirit. Before that, it was secular knowledge. Where is meditating on the things of God? It's missing in much of our lives, and I feel it is a key to having priesthood power.

I also think it can have to do with your spiritual gifts.

Part of it is getting rid of latent fears.

Part of it is repenting of interesting and particular things, not just general repentance.

I think it is continual cleansing. For the great majority of people in mortality, the state you are talking about as "permanent" isn't going to happen. It would literally drain the strength out of us, and we would soon die. (Remember the JS story about the blessings and why he could give more and be ok, and the other guy was ready to pass out.) There is no peak to the spiritual mountain here.

Using the priesthood correctly ALSO brings a "cleansing of every whit". We will "never be enough", but the HG qualifies someone.

From 2 Nephi we read:

2 Nephi 31:19 And now, my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken faith in him, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save.

Nephi explains you will not have received the baptism of fire and Holy Ghost and a remission of sins without first having "unshaken faith" in him. So yes, faith is key. Nothing else will occur if you do not first have faith. This scripture also kind of gives us a "checkpoint", where we know that we have exercised unshaken faith in Jesus Christ at some point, and we have seen the results of it.

Alma 32:34 And now, behold, is your knowledge perfect? Yea, your knowledge is perfect in that thing, and your faith is dormant

This why I say that Post Acts 2, the miracles were not a result of their Faith, because at that point Faith had become dormant in some things.

It requires MUCH more than most think to obtain true power. A majority of blessings that do not result in a cured person or fulfillment of what was said in the prayer is attributed to "the will of God". People often say we are expected to use modern medicine, and that's why we don't need miracle blessings. I don't believe those things are true. I think this understanding of HOW MUCH it takes to really receive power from on high has been lost over time, and those reasonings are what man has come up with to explain why their priesthood power seems to work so seldom.

[Finrock]

This is a truth that I know: Being filled with the Holy Spirit is the same as being filled with the Power of God and the Power of God is the same as His Priesthood.

Unless you are filled with Spirit, you have no Power. Spirit = Power in the priesthood. We obtain the Spirit by being humble and contrite and we maintain the Spirit as we obey what the Spirit and do as the Spirit directs and because of the mercy and grace of Jesus Christ. Although the Spirit will not always strive with man, the Spirit isn't as skittish as some might suppose. We can maintain the Spirit for some time and be justified because of the atonement of Jesus Christ, even though we are weak and prone to err.

-Finrock

[Zathura]

This is a truth that I know: Being filled with the Holy Spirit is the same as being filled with the Power of God and the Power of God is the same as His Priesthood.

Unless you are filled with Spirit, you have no Power. Spirit = Power in the priesthood. We obtain the Spirit by being humble and contrite and we maintain the Spirit as we obey what the Spirit and do as the Spirit directs and because of the mercy and grace of Jesus Christ. Although the Spirit will not always strive with man, the Spirit isn't as skittish as some might suppose. We can maintain the Spirit for some time and be justified because of the atonement of Jesus Christ, even though we are weak and prone to err.

-Finrock

This.

[Finrock]

This is also interesting to consider. This was quoted in another thread and I read it there and realized it was relevant to this topic as well:

64 And it came to pass, when the Lord had spoken with Adam, our father, that Adam cried unto the Lord, and he was caught away by the Spirit of the Lord, and was carried down into the water, and was laid under the water, and was brought forth out of the water.
65 And thus he was baptized, and the Spirit of God descended upon him, and thus he was born of the Spirit, and became quickened in the inner man.
66 And he heard a voice out of heaven, saying: Thou art baptized with fire, and with the Holy Ghost. This is the record of the Father, and the Son, from henceforth and forever;
67 And thou art after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity.
68 Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all become my sons. Amen.

Notice verse 67. It is interesting that after Adam was baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost, God declares that Adam is now "after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity". In other words, obtaining the baptism by fire and the Holy Ghost meant Adam now had the priesthood.

-Finrock

[JohnnyL]

This is also interesting to consider. This was quoted in another thread and I read it there and realized it was relevant to this topic as well:

64 And it came to pass, when the Lord had spoken with Adam, our father, that Adam cried unto the Lord, and he was caught away by the Spirit of the Lord, and was carried down into the water, and was laid under the water, and was brought forth out of the water.
65 And thus he was baptized, and the Spirit of God descended upon him, and thus he was born of the Spirit, and became quickened in the inner man.
66 And he heard a voice out of heaven, saying: Thou art baptized with fire, and with the Holy Ghost. This is the record of the Father, and the Son, from henceforth and forever;
67 And thou art after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity.
68 Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all become my sons. Amen.

Notice verse 67. It is interesting that after Adam was baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost, God declares that Adam is now "after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity". In other words, obtaining the baptism by fire and the Holy Ghost meant Adam now had the priesthood.

-Finrock

I would say, look to temple confirmations for what I think it means instead.

[Zathura]

This is also interesting to consider. This was quoted in another thread and I read it there and realized it was relevant to this topic as well:

64 And it came to pass, when the Lord had spoken with Adam, our father, that Adam cried unto the Lord, and he was caught away by the Spirit of the Lord, and was carried down into the water, and was laid under the water, and was brought forth out of the water.
65 And thus he was baptized, and the Spirit of God descended upon him, and thus he was born of the Spirit, and became quickened in the inner man.
66 And he heard a voice out of heaven, saying: Thou art baptized with fire, and with the Holy Ghost. This is the record of the Father, and the Son, from henceforth and forever;
67 And thou art after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity.
68 Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all become my sons. Amen.

Notice verse 67. It is interesting that after Adam was baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost, God declares that Adam is now "after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity". In other words, obtaining the baptism by fire and the Holy Ghost meant Adam now had the priesthood.

-Finrock

Read that in connection with JST Genesis 14:

6 Now Melchizedek was a man of faith, who wrought righteousness; and when a child he feared God, and stopped the mouths of lions, and quenched the violence of fire.

27 And thus, having been approved of God, he was ordained an high priest after the order of the covenant which God made with Enoch,

28 It being after the order of the Son of God; which order came, not by man, nor the will of man; neither by father nor mother; neither by beginning of days nor end of years; but of God;

29 And it was delivered unto men by the calling of his own voice, according to his own will, unto as many as believed on his name.

30 For God having sworn unto Enoch and unto his seed with an oath by himself; that every one being ordained after this order and calling should have power, by faith, to break mountains, to divide the seas, to dry up waters, to turn them out of their course;

It's clear that Adam received Priesthood, priesthood power when he received the Holy Ghost.

[Zathura]

This is also interesting to consider. This was quoted in another thread and I read it there and realized it was relevant to this topic as well:

64 And it came to pass, when the Lord had spoken with Adam, our father, that Adam cried unto the Lord, and he was caught away by the Spirit of the Lord, and was carried down into the water, and was laid under the water, and was brought forth out of the water.
65 And thus he was baptized, and the Spirit of God descended upon him, and thus he was born of the Spirit, and became quickened in the inner man.
66 And he heard a voice out of heaven, saying: Thou art baptized with fire, and with the Holy Ghost. This is the record of the Father, and the Son, from henceforth and forever;
67 And thou art after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity.
68 Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all become my sons. Amen.

Notice verse 67. It is interesting that after Adam was baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost, God declares that Adam is now "after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity". In other words, obtaining the baptism by fire and the Holy Ghost meant Adam now had the priesthood.

-Finrock

I would say, look to temple confirmations for what I think it means instead.

I don’t quite understand what you’re saying here.

[JohnnyL]

This is also interesting to consider. This was quoted in another thread and I read it there and realized it was relevant to this topic as well:

64 And it came to pass, when the Lord had spoken with Adam, our father, that Adam cried unto the Lord, and he was caught away by the Spirit of the Lord, and was carried down into the water, and was laid under the water, and was brought forth out of the water.
65 And thus he was baptized, and the Spirit of God descended upon him, and thus he was born of the Spirit, and became quickened in the inner man.
66 And he heard a voice out of heaven, saying: Thou art baptized with fire, and with the Holy Ghost. This is the record of the Father, and the Son, from henceforth and forever;
67 And thou art after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity.
68 Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all become my sons. Amen.

Notice verse 67. It is interesting that after Adam was baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost, God declares that Adam is now "after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity". In other words, obtaining the baptism by fire and the Holy Ghost meant Adam now had the priesthood.

-Finrock

I would say, look to temple confirmations for what I think it means instead.

I don’t quite understand what you’re saying here.

Temple confirmations for the dead, where the gift of the HG, confirmation, and the priesthood are performed at the same time.

[Zathura]

This is also interesting to consider. This was quoted in another thread and I read it there and realized it was relevant to this topic as well:



Notice verse 67. It is interesting that after Adam was baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost, God declares that Adam is now "after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity". In other words, obtaining the baptism by fire and the Holy Ghost meant Adam now had the priesthood.

-Finrock

I would say, look to temple confirmations for what I think it means instead.

I don’t quite understand what you’re saying here.

Temple confirmations for the dead, where the gift of the HG, confirmation, and the priesthood are performed at the same time.

I see. It’s been awhile since I’ve done that. I suppose it’s time to return and do some pondering!

[Zathura]

From "Following the Light of Christ into His Presence" Chapter 4, Rebirth of the Spirit:

referring to the "other method", which is one devoid of "large spiritual experiences".

...The other method is likewise real, and the blessings and refinements are equally operative in the lives of those who walk it. It is much longer, and spans most , if not all of the lifetime of those who travel it. The trials experienced are longer in duration, yet often less intense. The spiritual blessings are the same, but spread out over many years of time, those making them less recognizable, and consequently , less rejoiced over.
...That which is lost, however, is of great worth. Lost is the surety of purpose and powerful service of the other method. Lost is the opportunity to knowingly teach and involve others(including spouse and children) in the rebirth process. Lost is the powerful faith and potent priesthood power. Lost is the visibly open door to calling and election and further spiritual blessings. yet, it is a way fully acceptable to the Lord, and one upon which the majority of His children walk. Those who successfully traverse it will enter the Celestial Kingdom.

[Zathura]

Are you saying that priesthood power only comes after the BoF? So then, what are you saying priesthood power is exactly?

I want to point out something I found in the writings of Bruce R. McConkie.

It is the light of Christ; it is the life that is in all things; it is the law by which all things are governed; it is truth shining forth in darkness; it is the power of God who sitteth upon his throne. It may be that it is also priesthood and faith and omnipotence, for these too are the power of God. (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, pp. 257-258

He is talking about the Spirit of Christ/Spirit of the Lord/Holy Spirit, which is NOT the Holy Ghost, and he suggest that it MAY be the priesthood.

Aka, he is saying Maybe the Priesthood = Spirit.

This goes along with what I’m suggesting. That priesthood power is the same as the spirit, which comes in greater portions when you are born of God/sanctified/baptized by fire/become son or daughter of God/quickened etc.

[Finrock]

Are you saying that priesthood power only comes after the BoF? So then, what are you saying priesthood power is exactly?

I want to point out something I found in the writings of Bruce R. McConkie.

It is the light of Christ; it is the life that is in all things; it is the law by which all things are governed; it is truth shining forth in darkness; it is the power of God who sitteth upon his throne. It may be that it is also priesthood and faith and omnipotence, for these too are the power of God. (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, pp. 257-258

He is talking about the Spirit of Christ/Spirit of the Lord/Holy Spirit, which is NOT the Holy Ghost, and he suggest that it MAY be the priesthood.

Aka, he is saying Maybe the Priesthood = Spirit.

This goes along with what I’m suggesting. That priesthood power is the same as the spirit, which comes in greater portions when you are born of God/sanctified/baptized by fire/become son or daughter of God/quickened etc.

You are right, but, its not so easy to see this connection. I'm not saying that only a select few have the ability to understanding this or the mental capacity, I'm just saying that the way that we are taught the gospel at Church and the traditions that we have regarding priesthood and all of these things make it difficult to see the connection between having the Spirit of God and Priesthood. Another barrier to this is that many Mormons can't accept the notion that just having the Spirit gives someone priesthood power. In their minds this would mean that a Baptist could exercise priesthood power and this just can't be since only Mormons have the priesthood. See? So, not easy to see, not easy to accept, given the typical Mormon paradigm.

However, its true. Priesthood = Spirit.

-Finrock

[Zathura]

Are you saying that priesthood power only comes after the BoF? So then, what are you saying priesthood power is exactly?

I want to point out something I found in the writings of Bruce R. McConkie.

It is the light of Christ; it is the life that is in all things; it is the law by which all things are governed; it is truth shining forth in darkness; it is the power of God who sitteth upon his throne. It may be that it is also priesthood and faith and omnipotence, for these too are the power of God. (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, pp. 257-258

He is talking about the Spirit of Christ/Spirit of the Lord/Holy Spirit, which is NOT the Holy Ghost, and he suggest that it MAY be the priesthood.

Aka, he is saying Maybe the Priesthood = Spirit.

This goes along with what I’m suggesting. That priesthood power is the same as the spirit, which comes in greater portions when you are born of God/sanctified/baptized by fire/become son or daughter of God/quickened etc.

You are right, but, its not so easy to see this connection. I'm not saying that only a select few have the ability to understanding this or the mental capacity, I'm just saying that the way that we are taught the gospel at Church and the traditions that we have regarding priesthood and all of these things make it difficult to see the connection between having the Spirit of God and Priesthood. Another barrier to this is that many Mormons can't accept the notion that just having the Spirit gives someone priesthood power. In their minds this would mean that a Baptist could exercise priesthood power and this just can't be since only Mormons have the priesthood. See? So, not easy to see, not easy to accept, given the typical Mormon paradigm.

However, its true. Priesthood = Spirit.

-Finrock

Yes that makes sense, but seeing someone like Bruce R Mckonkie making the suggestion instead of some anon on a forum should help them out a bit.

This "Spirit=priesthood power" is something Id like to expand upon. Hopefully someone who's spent more time on this line of thinking can contribute

[Finrock]

Are you saying that priesthood power only comes after the BoF? So then, what are you saying priesthood power is exactly?

I want to point out something I found in the writings of Bruce R. McConkie.

It is the light of Christ; it is the life that is in all things; it is the law by which all things are governed; it is truth shining forth in darkness; it is the power of God who sitteth upon his throne. It may be that it is also priesthood and faith and omnipotence, for these too are the power of God. (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, pp. 257-258

He is talking about the Spirit of Christ/Spirit of the Lord/Holy Spirit, which is NOT the Holy Ghost, and he suggest that it MAY be the priesthood.

Aka, he is saying Maybe the Priesthood = Spirit.

This goes along with what I’m suggesting. That priesthood power is the same as the spirit, which comes in greater portions when you are born of God/sanctified/baptized by fire/become son or daughter of God/quickened etc.

You are right, but, its not so easy to see this connection. I'm not saying that only a select few have the ability to understanding this or the mental capacity, I'm just saying that the way that we are taught the gospel at Church and the traditions that we have regarding priesthood and all of these things make it difficult to see the connection between having the Spirit of God and Priesthood. Another barrier to this is that many Mormons can't accept the notion that just having the Spirit gives someone priesthood power. In their minds this would mean that a Baptist could exercise priesthood power and this just can't be since only Mormons have the priesthood. See? So, not easy to see, not easy to accept, given the typical Mormon paradigm.

However, its true. Priesthood = Spirit.

-Finrock

Yes that makes sense, but seeing someone like Bruce R Mckonkie making the suggestion instead of some anon on a forum should help them out a bit.

This "Spirit=priesthood power" is something Id like to expand upon. Hopefully someone who's spent more time on this line of thinking can contribute

The understanding that I received some time ago was that its all about the Spirit or obtaining the Spirit. We designate certain aspects of the gospel so that we can comprehend and compartmentalize things. We also have these milestones built in to our religion, like baptism, confirmation, temple ceremony, sealing, and so forth. These things represent important parts of our life, but, they all revolve around a central idea: Spirit.

I remember reading once that Joseph Smith designed the temple for the new "endowment" ceremony and that all aspects of the temple ceremony were connected together. It all represents one big "ordinance", culminating with having your calling and election made sure. Each step in the temple ceremony designates certain milestones in our "ordinance" and not really a separate and distinct ordinance. We receive power and promises are fulfilled when we have spirit or when we are operating by the spirit. The Spirit authorizes, the Spirit enables, and the Spirit seals.

This is one reason why it is so important to be baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost. That event opens the gateway to us receiving more spirit or more power or more priesthood. The more we understand the Spirit, how to obtain it and how to maintain it, the more we will understand the priesthood.

-Finrock

[Zathura]

I want to point out something I found in the writings of Bruce R. McConkie.

It is the light of Christ; it is the life that is in all things; it is the law by which all things are governed; it is truth shining forth in darkness; it is the power of God who sitteth upon his throne. It may be that it is also priesthood and faith and omnipotence, for these too are the power of God. (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, pp. 257-258

He is talking about the Spirit of Christ/Spirit of the Lord/Holy Spirit, which is NOT the Holy Ghost, and he suggest that it MAY be the priesthood.

Aka, he is saying Maybe the Priesthood = Spirit.

This goes along with what I’m suggesting. That priesthood power is the same as the spirit, which comes in greater portions when you are born of God/sanctified/baptized by fire/become son or daughter of God/quickened etc.

You are right, but, its not so easy to see this connection. I'm not saying that only a select few have the ability to understanding this or the mental capacity, I'm just saying that the way that we are taught the gospel at Church and the traditions that we have regarding priesthood and all of these things make it difficult to see the connection between having the Spirit of God and Priesthood. Another barrier to this is that many Mormons can't accept the notion that just having the Spirit gives someone priesthood power. In their minds this would mean that a Baptist could exercise priesthood power and this just can't be since only Mormons have the priesthood. See? So, not easy to see, not easy to accept, given the typical Mormon paradigm.

However, its true. Priesthood = Spirit.

-Finrock

Yes that makes sense, but seeing someone like Bruce R Mckonkie making the suggestion instead of some anon on a forum should help them out a bit.

This "Spirit=priesthood power" is something Id like to expand upon. Hopefully someone who's spent more time on this line of thinking can contribute

The understanding that I received some time ago was that its all about the Spirit or obtaining the Spirit. We designate certain aspects of the gospel so that we can comprehend and compartmentalize things. We also have these milestones built in to our religion, like baptism, confirmation, temple ceremony, sealing, and so forth. These things represent important parts of our life, but, they all revolve around a central idea: Spirit.

I remember reading once that Joseph Smith designed the temple for the new "endowment" ceremony and that all aspects of the temple ceremony were connected together. It all represents one big "ordinance", culminating with having your calling and election made sure. Each step in the temple ceremony designates certain milestones in our "ordinance" and not really a separate and distinct ordinance. We receive power and promises are fulfilled when we have spirit or when we are operating by the spirit. The Spirit authorizes, the Spirit enables, and the Spirit seals.

This is one reason why it is so important to be baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost. That event opens the gateway to us receiving more spirit or more power or more priesthood. The more we understand the Spirit, how to obtain it and how to maintain it, the more we will understand the priesthood.

-Finrock

Interesting.. That reminds me of what Jeremy used to say on this forum. He talks about each “token”. I think he said the 2nd or 3rd represented baptism of fire. I never really thought much of what he said though. I think his blog was journey to the fullness? It’s been awhile.

[True]

Are you saying that priesthood power only comes after the BoF? So then, what are you saying priesthood power is exactly?

I want to point out something I found in the writings of Bruce R. McConkie.

It is the light of Christ; it is the life that is in all things; it is the law by which all things are governed; it is truth shining forth in darkness; it is the power of God who sitteth upon his throne. It may be that it is also priesthood and faith and omnipotence, for these too are the power of God. (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, pp. 257-258

He is talking about the Spirit of Christ/Spirit of the Lord/Holy Spirit, which is NOT the Holy Ghost, and he suggest that it MAY be the priesthood.

Aka, he is saying Maybe the Priesthood = Spirit.

This goes along with what I’m suggesting. That priesthood power is the same as the spirit, which comes in greater portions when you are born of God/sanctified/baptized by fire/become son or daughter of God/quickened etc.

You are right, but, its not so easy to see this connection. I'm not saying that only a select few have the ability to understanding this or the mental capacity, I'm just saying that the way that we are taught the gospel at Church and the traditions that we have regarding priesthood and all of these things make it difficult to see the connection between having the Spirit of God and Priesthood. Another barrier to this is that many Mormons can't accept the notion that just having the Spirit gives someone priesthood power. In their minds this would mean that a Baptist could exercise priesthood power and this just can't be since only Mormons have the priesthood. See? So, not easy to see, not easy to accept, given the typical Mormon paradigm.

However, its true. Priesthood = Spirit.

-Finrock

This is how women have the priesthood or power of God and others not of our faith as well. I can’t tell you how many books I have read of valiant Christians who have faith in God and possess His Holy Spirit and have listened to the still small voice and have thereby wrought mighty miracles. God is no respecter of persons.
I’m not saying that women or non members can officiate in any ordinances (well some in the temple) or administration of church duties but God has not left them powerless to bless their families and those around them.