Topic about avoiding contention, personal experiences etc.

[waialeale]

Thanks to everyone who shared on this topic.

[Durzan]

Thank you for that wonderful post my friend. There have been a few posts (and probably a few PMs too) that have gotten rather nasty at certain points within the past couple weeks or so, and such posts like this always brightens the atmosphere quite a bit.

[sbee60]

Thank you for sharing this wonderful and edifying post

[gardener4life]

This post is true. I thought I might add a few comments to support it.

A few months ago in reading the Book of Mormon, I began to be aware of how very many verses there were that talked about 'stirred up to...' anger or contention. On LDS.org when you do a search of 'stir up' scriptures 49 alone show up in the Book of Mormon. Initially I didn't notice this but I would run into them one by one. And it sounded like some of those verses could apply to church members, and that good people could be involved in many of them.

I had a few experiences also where I felt like a lot of church members in my area had this thing where you could get them to write in journals, be good mostly, be diligent, educated themselves but that you could never under any situation get them to cooperate or help each other. This worried me.

Here are some of the verses in the B. Of Mormon I ran into;

Helaman 6:17
17 For behold, the Lord had blessed them so long with the riches of the world that they had not been stirred up to anger, to wars, nor to bloodshed; therefore they began to set their hearts upon their riches; yea, they began to seek to get gain that they might be lifted up one above another; therefore they began to commit secret murders, and to rob and to plunder, that they might get gain. (They were aware of being blessed by God and who he was...yet turned to evil.)

Helaman 11:4 O Lord, do not suffer that this people shall be destroyed by the sword; but O Lord, rather let there be a famine in the land, to stir them up in remembrance of the Lord their God, and perhaps they will repent and turn unto thee. (The prophet knew they would be humbled but asked the Lord to replace it with a way of them not hurting each other anymore...probably because he had seen they hurt one another often and it'd been commonplace.)

The heart of the matter;

Helaman 16:22 And many more things did the people imagine up in their hearts, which were foolish and vain; and they were much disturbed, for Satan did stir them up to do iniquity continually; yea, he did go about spreading rumors and contentions upon all the face of the land, that he might harden the hearts of the people against that which was good and against that which should come.

Alma 11:20 Now, it was for the sole purpose to get again, because they received their wages according to their employ, therefore, they did stir up the people to riotings, and all manner of disturbances and wickedness, that they might have more employ, that they might get money according to the suits which were brought before them; therefore they did stir up the people against Alma and Amulek. (Many would try to profit from great contentions like pouring gas on a fire and then use it to rob the victims.)

Mosiah 1:17 Therefore, as they were unfaithful they did not prosper nor progress in their journey, but were driven back, and incurred the displeasure of God upon them; and therefore they were smitten with famine and sore afflictions, to stir them up in remembrance of their duty. (How can we expect to be blessed without obedience & service?)

There was another verse or two I saw about Satan stirring up the people against one another but I forgot where it was. Some of these verses were about church members in contention it seemed. King Noah in fact changed the ordained priests that his father had...so he knew about the church and it's workings yet perverted it.

[marc]

...They would often stay with a relative of mine named Zula Brinkerhoff during their journey back and forth....

Years ago, I bought a 1971 copy of Zula C. Brinkerhoff's "God's Chosen People of America" and read it from cover to cover with great interest and from which I wrote a blog entry about it: https://latterdaylamanite.com/2013/10/2 ... r-weapons/

In the preface of her book, on page viii, she wrote that another book was in the final stages and nearly ready to go to the press called, "The Gathering of Indian Tribes." I searched and searched, but was never able to find such a book. Did something happen where it was never published after all? But if it has been published and you know where I can obtain a copy, would you please let me know? This is a subject of great importance to me. Feel free to private message me. Thank you!

[creator]

“Not only are there apostates within our midst, but there are also apostate doctrines that are sometimes taught in our classes and from our pulpits and that appear in our publications. And these apostate precepts of men cause our people to stumble. As the Book of Mormon, speaking of our day, states: “. . . they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men.” (2 Ne. 28:14.)” ––– Ezra Taft Benson, God, Family, Country, 253-263

I would also add that not everything some people think is "apostate doctrine" is actually apostate. At times, some Church members have rejected true doctrines and call them apostate doctrines in ignorance.

Also, we can easily disagree with each other without being contentious.

[AI2.0]

I'm glad others enjoyed his post; the scriptures and quotes were great.

But, I got sidetracked by the references to 'friends' in mexico who are 'fair skinned' and 'hidden of the Lord' who will be involved in the winding up scenes. Sounds like the kind of stuff that causes contentious debates on this forum, when someone shares their personal revelations and we're all supposed to just accept it as truth. And, I was totally perplexed by the claim that our LDS Apostles can't speak in their offices for fear they are being monitored. Monitored by whom? Big bad brother LDS church??... which they are the administrators of? That's tin foil stuff--which is always contentious if discussed here, since a lot of us don't believe the church is run in such a manner.

It's pretty hard to avoid contention when someone makes a posting like this-that is, if we wish to participate in a discussion on what was shared. Seems like we are supposed to just treat it like some kind of blog posting that doesn't allow comments, if we want to avoid contention.

[Zathura]

I'm glad others enjoyed his post; the scriptures and quotes were great.

But, I got sidetracked by the references to 'friends' in mexico who are 'fair skinned' and 'hidden of the Lord' who will be involved in the winding up scenes. Sounds like the kind of stuff that causes contentious debates on this forum, when someone shares their personal revelations and we're all supposed to just accept it as truth. And, I was totally perplexed by the claim that our LDS Apostles can't speak in their offices for fear they are being monitored. Monitored by whom? Big bad brother LDS church??... which they are the administrators of? That's tin foil stuff--which is always contentious if discussed here, since a lot of us don't believe the church is run in such a manner.

It's pretty hard to avoid contention when someone makes a posting like this-that is, if we wish to participate in a discussion on what was shared. Seems like we are supposed to just treat it like some kind of blog posting that doesn't allow comments, if we want to avoid contention.

Not really hard, just disagree and move on. No contention needed

[Zathura]

I'm glad others enjoyed his post; the scriptures and quotes were great.

But, I got sidetracked by the references to 'friends' in mexico who are 'fair skinned' and 'hidden of the Lord' who will be involved in the winding up scenes. Sounds like the kind of stuff that causes contentious debates on this forum, when someone shares their personal revelations and we're all supposed to just accept it as truth. And, I was totally perplexed by the claim that our LDS Apostles can't speak in their offices for fear they are being monitored. Monitored by whom? Big bad brother LDS church??... which they are the administrators of? That's tin foil stuff--which is always contentious if discussed here, since a lot of us don't believe the church is run in such a manner.

It's pretty hard to avoid contention when someone makes a posting like this-that is, if we wish to participate in a discussion on what was shared. Seems like we are supposed to just treat it like some kind of blog posting that doesn't allow comments, if we want to avoid contention.

Alternatively, if you don’t want to just “move on”, you can focus on the scriptures he used. Give alternate interpretations of them that you’ve seen in books you personally believe in. That opens up a scripture based discussion, no need to talk about his claims.

[larsenb]

I'm glad others enjoyed his post; the scriptures and quotes were great.

But, I got sidetracked by the references to 'friends' in mexico who are 'fair skinned' and 'hidden of the Lord' who will be involved in the winding up scenes. Sounds like the kind of stuff that causes contentious debates on this forum, when someone shares their personal revelations and we're all supposed to just accept it as truth. And, I was totally perplexed by the claim that our LDS Apostles can't speak in their offices for fear they are being monitored. Monitored by whom? Big bad brother LDS church??... which they are the administrators of? That's tin foil stuff--which is always contentious if discussed here, since a lot of us don't believe the church is run in such a manner.

It's pretty hard to avoid contention when someone makes a posting like this-that is, if we wish to participate in a discussion on what was shared. Seems like we are supposed to just treat it like some kind of blog posting that doesn't allow comments, if we want to avoid contention.

Except for the "tin foil stuff" slur, I agree with this. waialeale is making some rather extraordinary and controversial claims

[waialeale]

...They would often stay with a relative of mine named Zula Brinkerhoff during their journey back and forth....

Years ago, I bought a 1971 copy of Zula C. Brinkerhoff's "God's Chosen People of America" and read it from cover to cover with great interest and from which I wrote a blog entry about it: https://latterdaylamanite.com/2013/10/2 ... r-weapons/

In the preface of her book, on page viii, she wrote that another book was in the final stages and nearly ready to go to the press called, "The Gathering of Indian Tribes." I searched and searched, but was never able to find such a book. Did something happen where it was never published after all? But if it has been published and you know where I can obtain a copy, would you please let me know? This is a subject of great importance to me. Feel free to private message me. Thank you!

Beautiful blog! Thank you for sharing! I haven't heard of the book you speak of Zula almost finishing. Boy it would be great if we could get ahold of it! I will ask around. Zula was a special lady who loved the Native peoples so much.

[waialeale]

I'm glad others enjoyed his post; the scriptures and quotes were great.

But, I got sidetracked by the references to 'friends' in mexico who are 'fair skinned' and 'hidden of the Lord' who will be involved in the winding up scenes. Sounds like the kind of stuff that causes contentious debates on this forum, when someone shares their personal revelations and we're all supposed to just accept it as truth. And, I was totally perplexed by the claim that our LDS Apostles can't speak in their offices for fear they are being monitored. Monitored by whom? Big bad brother LDS church??... which they are the administrators of? That's tin foil stuff--which is always contentious if discussed here, since a lot of us don't believe the church is run in such a manner.

It's pretty hard to avoid contention when someone makes a posting like this-that is, if we wish to participate in a discussion on what was shared. Seems like we are supposed to just treat it like some kind of blog posting that doesn't allow comments, if we want to avoid contention.

Except for the "tin foil stuff" slur, I agree with this. waialeale is making some rather extraordinary and controversial claims

I am simply testifying of my experiences which really have occurred as I have shared them. If they had not have happened then I even probably wouldn't believe them hearing them on an internet forum. Are there experiences in your life that you have had which no matter how well you tried to articulate them they just would seem to extraordinary or incredible to others to accept or believe? Our missionaries are out working all over the earth everyday trying with all their might, gifts and capacities to convey such extraordinary wonderful things about the Restoration to our Fathers children. It is no different with my sharing some of my personal experiences.

[marc]

Beautiful blog! Thank you for sharing! I haven't heard of the book you speak of Zula almost finishing. Boy it would be great if we could get ahold of it! I will ask around. Zula was a special lady who loved the Native peoples so much.

Thank you so much! From the photos in her book, she was clearly a very cheerful person.

[Lizzy60]

I'm glad others enjoyed his post; the scriptures and quotes were great.

But, I got sidetracked by the references to 'friends' in mexico who are 'fair skinned' and 'hidden of the Lord' who will be involved in the winding up scenes. Sounds like the kind of stuff that causes contentious debates on this forum, when someone shares their personal revelations and we're all supposed to just accept it as truth. And, I was totally perplexed by the claim that our LDS Apostles can't speak in their offices for fear they are being monitored. Monitored by whom? Big bad brother LDS church??... which they are the administrators of? That's tin foil stuff--which is always contentious if discussed here, since a lot of us don't believe the church is run in such a manner.

It's pretty hard to avoid contention when someone makes a posting like this-that is, if we wish to participate in a discussion on what was shared. Seems like we are supposed to just treat it like some kind of blog posting that doesn't allow comments, if we want to avoid contention.

Except for the "tin foil stuff" slur, I agree with this. waialeale is making some rather extraordinary and controversial claims

I am simply testifying of my experiences which really have occurred as I have shared them. If they had not have happened then I even probably wouldn't believe them hearing them on an internet forum. Are there experiences in your life that you have had which no matter how well you tried to articulate them they just would seem to extraordinary or incredible to others to accept or believe? Our missionaries are out working all over the earth everyday trying with all their might, gifts and capacities to convey such extraordinary wonderful things about the Restoration to our Fathers children. It is no different with my sharing some of my personal experiences.

I have had personal spiritual experiences and manifestations, which, if shared on this forum, would receive ridicule and disbelief from posters crying "tin-foil-hat" taunts.

Yet, I know what I have seen and heard are true, and from the Lord, and although I am not supposed to share at this time, I will be asked to give my witness in the future. It is because of my own experiences that I am more prone to believe accounts like the one shared in the OP, rather than dismiss it. Better to believe too much, than to wallow in unbelief.

Yes, we ask our missionaries to share an almost unbelievable account of the restoration of the gospel, and then too many LDS call out anyone below general authority level when they share their own "great and marvelous" accounts.

[DesertWonderer2]

I am simply testifying of my experiences which really have occurred as I have shared them. If they had not have happened then I even probably wouldn't believe them hearing them on an internet forum. Are there experiences in your life that you have had which no matter how well you tried to articulate them they just would seem to extraordinary or incredible to others to accept or believe? Our missionaries are out working all over the earth everyday trying with all their might, gifts and capacities to convey such extraordinary wonderful things about the Restoration to our Fathers children. It is no different with my sharing some of my personal experiences.

Please share exactly what these experiences were. I’m sure we’ll understand.

Who did you meet? Where do they live? How did you come to meet them. What did you learn? Why were you ther for 10 yrs? What miraculous events happened?

[larsenb]

I'm glad others enjoyed his post; the scriptures and quotes were great.

But, I got sidetracked by the references to 'friends' in mexico who are 'fair skinned' and 'hidden of the Lord' who will be involved in the winding up scenes. Sounds like the kind of stuff that causes contentious debates on this forum, when someone shares their personal revelations and we're all supposed to just accept it as truth. And, I was totally perplexed by the claim that our LDS Apostles can't speak in their offices for fear they are being monitored. Monitored by whom? Big bad brother LDS church??... which they are the administrators of? That's tin foil stuff--which is always contentious if discussed here, since a lot of us don't believe the church is run in such a manner.

It's pretty hard to avoid contention when someone makes a posting like this-that is, if we wish to participate in a discussion on what was shared. Seems like we are supposed to just treat it like some kind of blog posting that doesn't allow comments, if we want to avoid contention.

Except for the "tin foil stuff" slur, I agree with this. waialeale is making some rather extraordinary and controversial claims

I am simply testifying of my experiences which really have occurred as I have shared them. If they had not have happened then I even probably wouldn't believe them hearing them on an internet forum. Are there experiences in your life that you have had which no matter how well you tried to articulate them they just would seem to extraordinary or incredible to others to accept or believe? Our missionaries are out working all over the earth everyday trying with all their might, gifts and capacities to convey such extraordinary wonderful things about the Restoration to our Fathers children. It is no different with my sharing some of my personal experiences.

You're statement that one couldn't speak freely in the offices of the Apostles w/out being monitored and claiming that you've had bitter experiences w/one or more (?) of the Brethren along with very good experiences with many of them, could be taken as thinly veiled criticism of the Church or Brethren, which could draw critical comments directed toward you; i.e., starting a train of 'contention'.

Your experiences are your experiences. You've apparently had some fascinating ones . . . with equally fascinating implications. But just claiming that there is an organization in southern Mexico that kinda 'rivals' the Church is rather controversial; even if you just say the organization compliments the LDS Church. What would you do if you were challenged on that claim by our 'higher Church authorities'?

And yes, I"ve been involved in something that is extremely hard to convey to others and to be believed regarding it. It involves 9/11 research.

[kittycat51]

I'm glad others enjoyed his post; the scriptures and quotes were great.

And, I was totally perplexed by the claim that our LDS Apostles can't speak in their offices for fear they are being monitored. Monitored by whom? Big bad brother LDS church??... which they are the administrators of? That's tin foil stuff--which is always contentious if discussed here, since a lot of us don't believe the church is run in such a manner.

The OP was very interesting indeed. I would love to know how he seems to know so many of the brethren! Not sure WHAT all I personally believe. But without going into detail I know what he is saying about being careful speaking in their offices is true. I have mentioned it several times on the forum already, my father was a member of the quorum of 70. He has shared many things with the family that I would never share. I will leave it at that. Believe or don't believe, that is everyone's prerogative. (No it's not big bad brother LDS church)

[Finrock]

It's pretty hard to avoid contention when someone makes a posting like this-that is, if we wish to participate in a discussion on what was shared. Seems like we are supposed to just treat it like some kind of blog posting that doesn't allow comments, if we want to avoid contention.

Why is it hard? Its easy for me to avoid contention with posts like this or with any posts really. Here are some tips that might help:

One way that you avoid contentious posts is don't make things personal. Don't start calling people names, accusing them, etc. Simply by avoiding that type of behavior will almost guarantee that there won't be contention. Believe the best of people even if you don't believe or agree with what they say. Allow people to be who they are and accept that not everyone that disagrees with you in points of doctrine or truth are "evil" or bad people, apostate, "fake Mormons" etc. In fact, contention disappears when we stop thinking things like we are "real" Mormons while other Mormons are not because they think different, understand differently, etc. Anyone, anywhere, at all times can disagree without being contentious. People don't have to agree with each other in order to at least understand one another. In one word: Respect.

-Finrock

[AI2.0]

I'm glad others enjoyed his post; the scriptures and quotes were great.

And, I was totally perplexed by the claim that our LDS Apostles can't speak in their offices for fear they are being monitored. Monitored by whom? Big bad brother LDS church??... which they are the administrators of? That's tin foil stuff--which is always contentious if discussed here, since a lot of us don't believe the church is run in such a manner.

The OP was very interesting indeed. I would love to know how he seems to know so many of the brethren! Not sure WHAT all I personally believe. But without going into detail I know what he is saying about being careful speaking in their offices is true. I have mentioned it several times on the forum already, my father was a member of the quorum of 70. He has shared many things with the family that I would never share. I will leave it at that. Believe or don't believe, that is everyone's prerogative. (No it's not big bad brother LDS church)

I don't know what you know, but I know what he's implying. He's suggesting that their offices are bugged and listened to by someone--I assume higher ups are listening to the lower ranks. Are you supporting that supposition?

[waialeale]

I'm glad others enjoyed his post; the scriptures and quotes were great.

But, I got sidetracked by the references to 'friends' in mexico who are 'fair skinned' and 'hidden of the Lord' who will be involved in the winding up scenes. Sounds like the kind of stuff that causes contentious debates on this forum, when someone shares their personal revelations and we're all supposed to just accept it as truth. And, I was totally perplexed by the claim that our LDS Apostles can't speak in their offices for fear they are being monitored. Monitored by whom? Big bad brother LDS church??... which they are the administrators of? That's tin foil stuff--which is always contentious if discussed here, since a lot of us don't believe the church is run in such a manner.

It's pretty hard to avoid contention when someone makes a posting like this-that is, if we wish to participate in a discussion on what was shared. Seems like we are supposed to just treat it like some kind of blog posting that doesn't allow comments, if we want to avoid contention.

Except for the "tin foil stuff" slur, I agree with this. waialeale is making some rather extraordinary and controversial claims

I am simply testifying of my experiences which really have occurred as I have shared them. If they had not have happened then I even probably wouldn't believe them hearing them on an internet forum. Are there experiences in your life that you have had which no matter how well you tried to articulate them they just would seem to extraordinary or incredible to others to accept or believe? Our missionaries are out working all over the earth everyday trying with all their might, gifts and capacities to convey such extraordinary wonderful things about the Restoration to our Fathers children. It is no different with my sharing some of my personal experiences.

I have had personal spiritual experiences and manifestations, which, if shared on this forum, would receive ridicule and disbelief from posters crying "tin-foil-hat" taunts.

Yet, I know what I have seen and heard are true, and from the Lord, and although I am not supposed to share at this time, I will be asked to give my witness in the future. It is because of my own experiences that I am more prone to believe accounts like the one shared in the OP, rather than dismiss it. Better to believe too much, than to wallow in unbelief.

Yes, we ask our missionaries to share an almost unbelievable account of the restoration of the gospel, and then too many LDS call out anyone below general authority level when they share their own "great and marvelous" accounts.

Thank you for your reply! President Packer taught that the Lord doesn't reveal sacred things to blabber mouths. We all have such sacred and sweet experiences which are ineffable. Yet we also desire to share and edify one another by sharing and testifying of the truths we learn to assist others and glorify our God and praise Him and His marvelous providences. I think the key must be in keeping the Holy Ghost with us to give us the words and wisdom of what to say and when. I am sure the experiences that you speak of could be too sacred to share on the internet. The Lord surely will prepare a time and place for what you have been given to be opened up. I am just starting to share a few things to others by following the Spirit, yet also I have been given counsel to not rock the boat or steady the ark. Remember: Alma 12 vs 9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.
Also:
I believe all that God ever revealed, and I never hear of a man being damned for believing too much; but they are damned for unbelief. Joseph Smith Jr.

[Zathura]

I'm glad others enjoyed his post; the scriptures and quotes were great.

And, I was totally perplexed by the claim that our LDS Apostles can't speak in their offices for fear they are being monitored. Monitored by whom? Big bad brother LDS church??... which they are the administrators of? That's tin foil stuff--which is always contentious if discussed here, since a lot of us don't believe the church is run in such a manner.

The OP was very interesting indeed. I would love to know how he seems to know so many of the brethren! Not sure WHAT all I personally believe. But without going into detail I know what he is saying about being careful speaking in their offices is true. I have mentioned it several times on the forum already, my father was a member of the quorum of 70. He has shared many things with the family that I would never share. I will leave it at that. Believe or don't believe, that is everyone's prerogative. (No it's not big bad brother LDS church)

I don't know what you know, but I know what he's implying. He's suggesting that their offices are bugged and listened to by someone--I assume higher ups are listening to the lower ranks. Are you supporting that supposition?

The “higher ups” are the ones he sustains and loves and has had sacred experiences with, so I doubt it. It’s the younger ones he doesn’t know. In light of that, I see him referring to general people in the church office buildings and other Church Authorities., which I don’t think is very far fetched due to quotes from past church leaders about enemies being in our midst .

Perhaps he can just explain?

[Juliet]

We do need to speak the truth. The leaders need to stand and speak the truth. We cannot say let the members wander while the wolves eat them, for doing so will separate the wheat and the tares. Somebody needs to be the shepherd.

It is important to not have contention not from a desire to be self righteous but to honor the Holy Spirit. And while many of us stuggle day and night against the flesh, maybe instead of teaching no contention, we can teach patience for those who do contend. Because ultimately it isn't the level of our voice but the sincerety of our heart that is important in the journey for truth. In other words, perhaps contention can be a mislabeled form of passion.

[kittycat51]

I'm glad others enjoyed his post; the scriptures and quotes were great.

And, I was totally perplexed by the claim that our LDS Apostles can't speak in their offices for fear they are being monitored. Monitored by whom? Big bad brother LDS church??... which they are the administrators of? That's tin foil stuff--which is always contentious if discussed here, since a lot of us don't believe the church is run in such a manner.

The OP was very interesting indeed. I would love to know how he seems to know so many of the brethren! Not sure WHAT all I personally believe. But without going into detail I know what he is saying about being careful speaking in their offices is true. I have mentioned it several times on the forum already, my father was a member of the quorum of 70. He has shared many things with the family that I would never share. I will leave it at that. Believe or don't believe, that is everyone's prerogative. (No it's not big bad brother LDS church)

I don't know what you know, but I know what he's implying. He's suggesting that their offices are bugged and listened to by someone--I assume higher ups are listening to the lower ranks. Are you supporting that supposition?

Nope

[eddie]

It's pretty hard to avoid contention when someone makes a posting like this-that is, if we wish to participate in a discussion on what was shared. Seems like we are supposed to just treat it like some kind of blog posting that doesn't allow comments, if we want to avoid contention.

Why is it hard? Its easy for me to avoid contention with posts like this or with any posts really. Here are some tips that might help:

One way that you avoid contentious posts is don't make things personal. Don't start calling people names, accusing them, etc. Simply by avoiding that type of behavior will almost guarantee that there won't be contention. Believe the best of people even if you don't believe or agree with what they say. Allow people to be who they are and accept that not everyone that disagrees with you in points of doctrine or truth are "evil" or bad people, apostate, "fake Mormons" etc. In fact, contention disappears when we stop thinking things like we are "real" Mormons while other Mormons are not because they think different, understand differently, etc. Anyone, anywhere, at all times can disagree without being contentious. People don't have to agree with each other in order to at least understand one another. In one word: Respect.

-Finrock

Twlight Zone.gif (408.39 KiB) Viewed 2138 times

[MMbelieve]

Something I never really seem to understand is why there are post of various claims or experiences shared that involve sharing enough info to peak interest and questions but not enough info to calm those questions to a peaceful state to allow others to actually ponder and think on them.

Please I ask, if something is not meant to be known by others it's kind to completely refrain from speaking of it. If others are meant to know then perhaps they will receive their own experiences and knowledge.

I'm not trying to shoot you down in the least, it's just hard when people do these things. People want to believe and learn new things and have new or better insights and I think some can really be led to wild ideas when only half statements and half info is given.

Someone who truly does care and wants to bless and help others should and would be careful that their words do not cause anyone to err on their path.

If someone knows why the brethren have to be careful in their office they should say so. Why be secretive? We all live in the same world and are aware of the lack of privacy we have and how the world and government and whoever could really twist and turn the things we teach and believe into some pretty negative light. I means just the mention of angels can make one look like a nutcase in the real world.

But saying they can't speak in their offices and not saying why really leaves much to the imagination and could be unsettling for people. We are taught good things about the brethren and that they are honest, loving, faithful, good men who all work together in unison in their messages to the church. Knowing that at work they cannot be these things freely is bothersome and raises concern to why.