What are you doing to follow the Prophet?

[BeNotDeceived]

The only official interpretation of “hot drinks” (D&C 89:9) in the Word of Wisdom is the statement made by early Church leaders that the term “hot drinks” means tea and coffee. ...

Similar language appears in a New Era article.

Who said what or when isn’t referenced

New Research Confirms: "Hot Drinks" Are Not Good for Your Body (but It's Not About the Caffeine)

Apparently some people drink stuff exceeding 149 degrees Fahrenheit which understanding doesn’t require further reference or interpretation.

[I AM]

I've heard too many members just say, "I follow the prophet".

Why would you be saying you've "heard too many" say that?
I try to follow the Prophet because he follows the Lord and is His mouthpiece.
I would follow you but that would be idolatry since you have no authority and it looks to me like you talk about following the Lord but don't.
You use man's interpretation of God's wisdom to teach your doctrine, and so it is easy for a person. led by the Spirit, to see you are just plain wrong.
If you actually followed the Lord you would have the Spirit guiding you and you would teach others to follow the Prophet because you would know they should.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think you got it just a little bit backwards.

experiencing life is not looking at your TV

You say "I follow the prophet"
You shouldn't follow ANYONE, except Christ.
The prophet can't save you.
he didn't die for you.

Isn't about time that we stop trying to be led by,
and trying to live on borrowed light.
You can not follow someone into heaven.
Christ is the key to get in.
You have to come to Him, and so does the prophet.

The Savior said "Come, Follow Me"

You don't need the prophet for anything.
However YOU DO need the Lord for EVERYTHING.

there's no middle man to come to God, except Jesus Christ

like this
"I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
John 14:6

NOT like this
"Prophets are the way, the truth, and the life:
no man cometh unto the Father, but through them"

I wouldn't follow you, or the prophet,
because I know the Lord is the ONLY ONE I need
to look to.

You need to come to Jesus Christ yourself and have a personal relationship with Him,
(not the prophet) and know that He personally atoned
for YOUR sins.

Anyone led by the Spirit can to see that it's YOU that is wrong,
and if you actually followed the Lord Jesus Christ, you would
"have His Spirit to be with them."
and you wouldn't be relying on "the arm of the flesh", and
be leaning to "the precepts of men" as you do.

13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me,
and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
Isaiah 29:13 2 Nephi 27:25

You would teach others not to follow the prophet or anyone else.
And that we should seek ONLY THE LORD JESUS CHRIST
and that HE IS THE ONE that died for you and THE ONLY ONE
that has the power to save you, and you should put ALL your
faith, trust, and hope in HIM.

And I think it's you who uses man's interpretation of God's wisdom and follows their doctrines,
and are "taught by the precept of men".

Over 90% of what I post is "The Word of God" - our scriptures.
but you probably wouldn't recognize that because you, like most members , don't read them, and are
"taught by the precept of men".

A well known LDS writer once wrote a
foreword in a book and said -
"This book might well be entitled
"What you always wanted to know about the Gospel
but were too lazy to find out."
"All answers are in the scriptures, but Latter-day Saints
do not read the scriptures."
Hugh Nibley

You say you follow the prophet.
But what about some of the greatest prophets that have
ever lived ?
Nephi, Isaiah. Are they not important ?
Jesus Himself said - "for great are the words of Isaiah"
and gave us a commandment that we search them diligently.
Should not their words be as great, if not more important for us at this time.

Even our prophet and our church stand on their foundation,
(the prophets of old)
because it's the keystone of our religion.

“I told the brethren that the
Book of Mormon was the most correct of
any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion,
and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by
its precepts, than by any other book.”

Joseph Smith

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Many members that just say to follow the prophet
are the same one's that say "all is well in Zion",

We as members need to "wake up" to what our scriptures are really saying to us, and quit being "taught by the precept of men".

2 Nephi 1:13
13 O that ye would awake; awake from a deep sleep, yea,
even from the sleep of hell,
and shake off the awful chains by which ye are bound,
which are the chains which bind
the children of men, that they are carried away captive down
to the eternal gulf of misery and woe.

2 Nephi 28:21,24,25
21 And others will he pacify,
and lull them away into carnal security,
that they will say: All is well in Zion;
yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—
and thus the devil cheateth their souls,
and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.
24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!
25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!

[drtanner]

President Nelson is speaking to all of the youth on June 3rd.

President Nelson invites youth to prepare for the broadcast by:

1.Reading from the Book of Mormon every day before the event.

2.Asking the Lord in prayer to “prepare your heart and mind to hear what He is eager to teach you.”

Although I am not a youth I have accepted the invitation and am eager and look forward to be taught by the Lord.

[Craig Johnson]

I've heard too many members just say, "I follow the prophet".

Why would you be saying you've "heard too many" say that?
I try to follow the Prophet because he follows the Lord and is His mouthpiece.
I would follow you but that would be idolatry since you have no authority and it looks to me like you talk about following the Lord but don't.
You use man's interpretation of God's wisdom to teach your doctrine, and so it is easy for a person. led by the Spirit, to see you are just plain wrong.
If you actually followed the Lord you would have the Spirit guiding you and you would teach others to follow the Prophet because you would know they should.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think you got it just a little bit backwards.

experiencing life is not looking at your TV

You say "I follow the prophet"
You shouldn't follow ANYONE, except Christ.
The prophet can't save you.
he didn't die for you.

Isn't about time that we stop trying to be led by,
and trying to live on borrowed light.
You can not follow someone into heaven.
Christ is the key to get in.
You have to come to Him, and so does the prophet.

The Savior said "Come, Follow Me"

You don't need the prophet for anything.
However YOU DO need the Lord for EVERYTHING.

there's no middle man to come to God, except Jesus Christ

like this
"I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
John 14:6

NOT like this
"Prophets are the way, the truth, and the life:
no man cometh unto the Father, but through them"

I wouldn't follow you, or the prophet,
because I know the Lord is the ONLY ONE I need
to look to.

You need to come to Jesus Christ yourself and have a personal relationship with Him,
(not the prophet) and know that He personally atoned
for YOUR sins.

Anyone led by the Spirit can to see that it's YOU that is wrong,
and if you actually followed the Lord Jesus Christ, you would
"have His Spirit to be with them."
and you wouldn't be relying on "the arm of the flesh", and
be leaning to "the precepts of men" as you do.

13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me,
and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
Isaiah 29:13 2 Nephi 27:25

You would teach others not to follow the prophet or anyone else.
And that we should seek ONLY THE LORD JESUS CHRIST
and that HE IS THE ONE that died for you and THE ONLY ONE
that has the power to save you, and you should put ALL your
faith, trust, and hope in HIM.

And I think it's you who uses man's interpretation of God's wisdom and follows their doctrines,
and are "taught by the precept of men".

Over 90% of what I post is "The Word of God" - our scriptures.
but you probably wouldn't recognize that because you, like most members , don't read them, and are
"taught by the precept of men".

A well known LDS writer once wrote a
foreword in a book and said -
"This book might well be entitled
"What you always wanted to know about the Gospel
but were too lazy to find out."
"All answers are in the scriptures, but Latter-day Saints
do not read the scriptures."
Hugh Nibley

You say you follow the prophet.
But what about some of the greatest prophets that have
ever lived ?
Nephi, Isaiah. Are they not important ?
Jesus Himself said - "for great are the words of Isaiah"
and gave us a commandment that we search them diligently.
Should not their words be as great, if not more important for us at this time.

Even our prophet and our church stand on their foundation,
(the prophets of old)
because it's the keystone of our religion.

“I told the brethren that the
Book of Mormon was the most correct of
any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion,
and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by
its precepts, than by any other book.”

Joseph Smith

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Many members that just say to follow the prophet
are the same one's that say "all is well in Zion",

We as members need to "wake up" to what our scriptures are really saying to us, and quit being "taught by the precept of men".

2 Nephi 1:13
13 O that ye would awake; awake from a deep sleep, yea,
even from the sleep of hell,
and shake off the awful chains by which ye are bound,
which are the chains which bind
the children of men, that they are carried away captive down
to the eternal gulf of misery and woe.

2 Nephi 28:21,24,25
21 And others will he pacify,
and lull them away into carnal security,
that they will say: All is well in Zion;
yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—
and thus the devil cheateth their souls,
and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.
24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!
25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!

I suppose it makes sense to you to quote prophets to prove your anti-prophet stance. If you don't follow prophets why are you quoting them? You don't need the scriptures and should not use them since it is hypocritical and makes you a secondary middle-man, considering your stance, to do so.
Of course since your stance is completely untenable, i.e. you would know nothing about the Lord were it not for prophets, you can't completely abandon them in order to try to prove your baseless point that cannot be proven.
Also, by making points and inferences that are not based on reality or how we, as Latter-Day Saints, actually view prophets, you continue to exercise a futile belief, but you have the right to skew details and invent reality in any way you wish and to believe whatever you want.
This thread is about following the prophets, I try to do so. This has no impact on the fact that the Lord is first in my life, or all of our lives. Again, you would not know anything about the Lord were it not for prophets, you did not know anything about Him until you received their teachings about Him. Everything you know about the Lord you owe to the ministry of a prophet since even our Lord left no written record. I respect that rather than think I know more than those who taught me and were sent to teach us by the Lord himself. Perhaps in your mind you just cannot or maybe you refuse to connect those dots.

[Mark]

I've heard too many members just say, "I follow the prophet".

Why would you be saying you've "heard too many" say that?
I try to follow the Prophet because he follows the Lord and is His mouthpiece.
I would follow you but that would be idolatry since you have no authority and it looks to me like you talk about following the Lord but don't.
You use man's interpretation of God's wisdom to teach your doctrine, and so it is easy for a person. led by the Spirit, to see you are just plain wrong.
If you actually followed the Lord you would have the Spirit guiding you and you would teach others to follow the Prophet because you would know they should.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think you got it just a little bit backwards.

experiencing life is not looking at your TV

You say "I follow the prophet"
You shouldn't follow ANYONE, except Christ.
The prophet can't save you.
he didn't die for you.

Isn't about time that we stop trying to be led by,
and trying to live on borrowed light.
You can not follow someone into heaven.
Christ is the key to get in.
You have to come to Him, and so does the prophet.

The Savior said "Come, Follow Me"

You don't need the prophet for anything.
However YOU DO need the Lord for EVERYTHING.

there's no middle man to come to God, except Jesus Christ

like this
"I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
John 14:6

NOT like this
"Prophets are the way, the truth, and the life:
no man cometh unto the Father, but through them"

I wouldn't follow you, or the prophet,
because I know the Lord is the ONLY ONE I need
to look to.

You need to come to Jesus Christ yourself and have a personal relationship with Him,
(not the prophet) and know that He personally atoned
for YOUR sins.

Anyone led by the Spirit can to see that it's YOU that is wrong,
and if you actually followed the Lord Jesus Christ, you would
"have His Spirit to be with them."
and you wouldn't be relying on "the arm of the flesh", and
be leaning to "the precepts of men" as you do.

13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me,
and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
Isaiah 29:13 2 Nephi 27:25

You would teach others not to follow the prophet or anyone else.
And that we should seek ONLY THE LORD JESUS CHRIST
and that HE IS THE ONE that died for you and THE ONLY ONE
that has the power to save you, and you should put ALL your
faith, trust, and hope in HIM.

And I think it's you who uses man's interpretation of God's wisdom and follows their doctrines,
and are "taught by the precept of men".

Over 90% of what I post is "The Word of God" - our scriptures.
but you probably wouldn't recognize that because you, like most members , don't read them, and are
"taught by the precept of men".

A well known LDS writer once wrote a
foreword in a book and said -
"This book might well be entitled
"What you always wanted to know about the Gospel
but were too lazy to find out."
"All answers are in the scriptures, but Latter-day Saints
do not read the scriptures."
Hugh Nibley

You say you follow the prophet.
But what about some of the greatest prophets that have
ever lived ?
Nephi, Isaiah. Are they not important ?
Jesus Himself said - "for great are the words of Isaiah"
and gave us a commandment that we search them diligently.
Should not their words be as great, if not more important for us at this time.

Even our prophet and our church stand on their foundation,
(the prophets of old)
because it's the keystone of our religion.

“I told the brethren that the
Book of Mormon was the most correct of
any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion,
and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by
its precepts, than by any other book.”

Joseph Smith

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Many members that just say to follow the prophet
are the same one's that say "all is well in Zion",

We as members need to "wake up" to what our scriptures are really saying to us, and quit being "taught by the precept of men".

2 Nephi 1:13
13 O that ye would awake; awake from a deep sleep, yea,
even from the sleep of hell,
and shake off the awful chains by which ye are bound,
which are the chains which bind
the children of men, that they are carried away captive down
to the eternal gulf of misery and woe.

2 Nephi 28:21,24,25
21 And others will he pacify,
and lull them away into carnal security,
that they will say: All is well in Zion;
yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—
and thus the devil cheateth their souls,
and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.
24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!
25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!

You seem very confused. First you say:

"You don't need the prophet for anything."

Then you say:

"Over 90% of what I post is "The Word of God" - our scriptures.
but you probably wouldn't recognize that because you, like most members , don't read them, and are
"taught by the precept of men".

If there were no Prophets needed you would not be posting scriptures because last I checked that how the scriptures came to us; THRU PROPHETS!

I think you are just exposing yourself for who you are because you don't really believe there are any Prophets today whose instruction is worth following.

Then you finish by saying:

"You say you follow the prophet.
But what about some of the greatest prophets that have
ever lived ?
Nephi, Isaiah. Are they not important ?
Jesus Himself said - "for great are the words of Isaiah"
and gave us a commandment that we search them diligently.
Should not their words be as great, if not more important for us at this time."

Wait a minute. You first said we don't need the Prophet for anything. Yet you now deem Nephi and Isaiah as important Prophets and advocate to follow their words. I think it is clear that you don't accept or sustain Pres. Nelson or the 1st Presidency and Quorum of the 12 as Prophets/SeersRevelators. What church do you subscribe to? It's clear that it isn't the LDS faith..

P.S Just saw your post Craig. You said it better than I. Thanks.

[drtanner]

When someone says "follow the prophet" I've never once thought "follow a man" I've always thought consciously about what the Lord's message through him for me personally may be. Can the Lord also speak to us individually? Absolutely. Does following a prophet take away from the desire to go to Christ directly? No that is what the prophets encourage us to do. Do the prophets encourage a one on one relationship with Christ. Absolutely. So why follow a prophet? Here are a few good reasons and illustrations:

D&C 1:4 And the voice of warning shall be unto all people, by the mouths of my disciples, whom I have chosen in these last days.

38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.

1 Nephi 22:2 And I, Nephi, said unto them: Behold they were manifest unto the prophet by the voice of the Spirit; for by the Spirit are all things made known unto the prophets, which shall come upon the children of men according to the flesh.

D&C 68:3 And this is the ensample unto them, that they shall speak as they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost.

4 And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.

5 Behold, this is the promise of the Lord unto you, O ye my servants.

Moses 6:26 And it came to pass that Enoch journeyed in the land, among the people; and as he journeyed, the Spirit of God descended out of heaven, and abode upon him.

27 And he heard a voice from heaven, saying: Enoch, my son, prophesy unto this people, and say unto them—Repent, for thus saith the Lord: I am angry with this people, and my fierce anger is kindled against them; for their hearts have waxed hard, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes cannot see afar off;

28 And for these many generations, ever since the day that I created them, have they gone astray, and have denied me, and have sought their own counsels in the dark; and in their own abominations have they devised murder, and have not kept the commandments, which I gave unto their father, Adam.

29 Wherefore, they have foresworn themselves, and, by their oaths, they have brought upon themselves death; and a hell I have prepared for them, if they repent not;

30 And this is a decree, which I have sent forth in the beginning of the world, from my own mouth, from the foundation thereof, and by the mouths of my servants, thy fathers, have I decreed it, even as it shall be sent forth in the world, unto the ends thereof.

31 And when Enoch had heard these words, he bowed himself to the earth, before the Lord, and spake before the Lord, saying: Why is it that I have found favor in thy sight, and am but a lad, and all the people hate me; for I am slow of speech; wherefore am I thy servant?

32 And the Lord said unto Enoch: Go forth and do as I have commanded thee, and no man shall pierce thee. Open thy mouth, and it shall be filled, and I will give thee utterance, for all flesh is in my hands, and I will do as seemeth me good.

33 Say unto this people: Choose ye this day, to serve the Lord God who made you.

34 Behold my Spirit is upon you, wherefore all thy words will I justify; and the mountains shall flee before you, and the rivers shall turn from their course; and thou shalt abide in me, and I in you; therefore walk with me.

35 And the Lord spake unto Enoch, and said unto him: Anoint thine eyes with clay, and wash them, and thou shalt see. And he did so.

36 And he beheld the spirits that God had created; and he beheld also things which were not visible to the natural eye; and from thenceforth came the saying abroad in the land: A seer hath the Lord raised up unto his people.

37 And it came to pass that Enoch went forth in the land, among the people, standing upon the hills and the high places, and cried with a loud voice, testifying against their works; and all men were offended because of him.

38 And they came forth to hear him, upon the high places, saying unto the tent-keepers: Tarry ye here and keep the tents, while we go yonder to behold the seer, for he prophesieth, and there is a strange thing in the land; a wild man hath come among us.

Can you imagine what would have happened to the city of Enoch if they hadn't listened or believed in Enoch's words? Point being for many people it starts with Prophets and ends with Christ.

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

D&C 132:7 And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this power in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead.

D&C 107:65 Wherefore, it must needs be that one be appointed of the High Priesthood to preside over the priesthood, and he shall be called President of the High Priesthood of the Church;

66 Or, in other words, the Presiding High Priest over the High Priesthood of the Church.

67 From the same comes the administering of ordinances and blessings upon the church, by the laying on of the hands.

91 And again, the duty of the President of the office of the High Priesthood is to preside over the whole church, and to be like unto Moses—

92 Behold, here is wisdom; yea, to be a seer, a revelator, a translator, and a prophet, having all the gifts of God which he bestows upon the head of the church.

D&C 43:1 O hearken, ye elders of my church, and give ear to the words which I shall speak unto you.

2 For behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, that ye have received a commandment for a law unto my church, through him whom I have appointed unto you to receive commandments and revelations from my hand.

3 And this ye shall know assuredly—that there is none other appointed unto you to receive commandments and revelations until he be taken, if he abide in me.

4 But verily, verily, I say unto you, that none else shall be appointed unto this gift except it be through him; for if it be taken from him he shall not have power except to appoint another in his stead.

5 And this shall be a law unto you, that ye receive not the teachings of any that shall come before you as revelations or commandments;

6 And this I give unto you that you may not be deceived, that you may know they are not of me.

7 For verily I say unto you, that he that is ordained of me shall come in at the gate and be ordained as I have told you before, to teach those revelations which you have received and shall receive through him whom I have appointed.

When Christ came to the Americas he called prophets and apostles even though everyone there had the greatest blessings available to members of his church, that of being comforted and blessed by Christ personally. So why did he call prophets?

21 And the Lord said unto him: I give unto you power that ye shall baptize this people when I am again ascended into heaven.

22 And again the Lord called others, and said unto them likewise; and he gave unto them power to baptize. And he said unto them: On this wise shall ye baptize; and there shall be no disputations among you.

23 Verily I say unto you, that whoso repenteth of his sins through your words, and desireth to be baptized in my name, on this wise shall ye baptize them—Behold, ye shall go down and stand in the water, and in my name shall ye baptize them.

3 Nephi 12:1 And it came to pass that when Jesus had spoken these words unto Nephi, and to those who had been called, (now the number of them who had been called, and received power and authority to baptize, was twelve) and behold, he stretched forth his hand unto the multitude, and cried unto them, saying: Blessed are ye if ye shall give heed unto the words of these twelve whom I have chosen from among you to minister unto you, and to be your servants; and unto them I have given power that they may baptize you with water; and after that ye are baptized with water, behold, I will baptize you with fire and with the Holy Ghost; therefore blessed are ye if ye shall believe in me and be baptized, after that ye have seen me and know that I am.

2 And again, more blessed are they who shall believe in your words because that ye shall testify that ye have seen me, and that ye know that I am. Yea, blessed are they who shall believe in your words, and come down into the depths of humility and be baptized, for they shall be visited with fire and with the Holy Ghost, and shall receive a remission of their sins.

Another great example of how we can be blessed for following the council of a prophet, how might this apply to us today?

[Craig Johnson]

I've heard too many members just say, "I follow the prophet".

Why would you be saying you've "heard too many" say that?
I try to follow the Prophet because he follows the Lord and is His mouthpiece.
I would follow you but that would be idolatry since you have no authority and it looks to me like you talk about following the Lord but don't.
You use man's interpretation of God's wisdom to teach your doctrine, and so it is easy for a person. led by the Spirit, to see you are just plain wrong.
If you actually followed the Lord you would have the Spirit guiding you and you would teach others to follow the Prophet because you would know they should.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think you got it just a little bit backwards.

experiencing life is not looking at your TV

You say "I follow the prophet"
You shouldn't follow ANYONE, except Christ.
The prophet can't save you.
he didn't die for you.

Isn't about time that we stop trying to be led by,
and trying to live on borrowed light.
You can not follow someone into heaven.
Christ is the key to get in.
You have to come to Him, and so does the prophet.

The Savior said "Come, Follow Me"

You don't need the prophet for anything.
However YOU DO need the Lord for EVERYTHING.

there's no middle man to come to God, except Jesus Christ

like this
"I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
John 14:6

NOT like this
"Prophets are the way, the truth, and the life:
no man cometh unto the Father, but through them"

I wouldn't follow you, or the prophet,
because I know the Lord is the ONLY ONE I need
to look to.

You need to come to Jesus Christ yourself and have a personal relationship with Him,
(not the prophet) and know that He personally atoned
for YOUR sins.

Anyone led by the Spirit can to see that it's YOU that is wrong,
and if you actually followed the Lord Jesus Christ, you would
"have His Spirit to be with them."
and you wouldn't be relying on "the arm of the flesh", and
be leaning to "the precepts of men" as you do.

13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me,
and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
Isaiah 29:13 2 Nephi 27:25

You would teach others not to follow the prophet or anyone else.
And that we should seek ONLY THE LORD JESUS CHRIST
and that HE IS THE ONE that died for you and THE ONLY ONE
that has the power to save you, and you should put ALL your
faith, trust, and hope in HIM.

And I think it's you who uses man's interpretation of God's wisdom and follows their doctrines,
and are "taught by the precept of men".

Over 90% of what I post is "The Word of God" - our scriptures.
but you probably wouldn't recognize that because you, like most members , don't read them, and are
"taught by the precept of men".

A well known LDS writer once wrote a
foreword in a book and said -
"This book might well be entitled
"What you always wanted to know about the Gospel
but were too lazy to find out."
"All answers are in the scriptures, but Latter-day Saints
do not read the scriptures."
Hugh Nibley

You say you follow the prophet.
But what about some of the greatest prophets that have
ever lived ?
Nephi, Isaiah. Are they not important ?
Jesus Himself said - "for great are the words of Isaiah"
and gave us a commandment that we search them diligently.
Should not their words be as great, if not more important for us at this time.

Even our prophet and our church stand on their foundation,
(the prophets of old)
because it's the keystone of our religion.

“I told the brethren that the
Book of Mormon was the most correct of
any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion,
and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by
its precepts, than by any other book.”

Joseph Smith

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Many members that just say to follow the prophet
are the same one's that say "all is well in Zion",

We as members need to "wake up" to what our scriptures are really saying to us, and quit being "taught by the precept of men".

2 Nephi 1:13
13 O that ye would awake; awake from a deep sleep, yea,
even from the sleep of hell,
and shake off the awful chains by which ye are bound,
which are the chains which bind
the children of men, that they are carried away captive down
to the eternal gulf of misery and woe.

2 Nephi 28:21,24,25
21 And others will he pacify,
and lull them away into carnal security,
that they will say: All is well in Zion;
yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—
and thus the devil cheateth their souls,
and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.
24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!
25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!

You seem very confused. First you say:

"You don't need the prophet for anything."

Then you say:

"Over 90% of what I post is "The Word of God" - our scriptures.
but you probably wouldn't recognize that because you, like most members , don't read them, and are
"taught by the precept of men".

If there were no Prophets needed you would not be posting scriptures because last I checked that how the scriptures came to us; THRU PROPHETS!

I think you are just exposing yourself for who you are because you don't really believe there are any Prophets today whose instruction is worth following.

Then you finish by saying:

"You say you follow the prophet.
But what about some of the greatest prophets that have
ever lived ?
Nephi, Isaiah. Are they not important ?
Jesus Himself said - "for great are the words of Isaiah"
and gave us a commandment that we search them diligently.
Should not their words be as great, if not more important for us at this time."

Wait a minute. You first said we don't need the Prophet for anything. Yet you now deem Nephi and Isaiah as important Prophets and advocate to follow their words. I think it is clear that you don't accept or sustain Pres. Nelson or the 1st Presidency and Quorum of the 12 as Prophets/SeersRevelators. What church do you subscribe to? It's clear that it isn't the LDS faith..

P.S Just saw your post Craig. You said it better than I. Thanks.

You nailed it really well. I appreciate the logic and quoting makes it very clear. My laziness.
The whole argument is meaningless vapor. He is using a form of Korihor's logic and philosophy and I think I can see why it is pleasing to the carnal mind, since using this position you can pretty much justify anything you want to think or do. Korihor had someone appear to him and teach him, i was wondering if this has happened in this case. Korihor's end was as follows.
Alma 30
52 And Korihor put forth his hand and wrote, saying: I know that I am dumb, for I cannot speak; and I know that nothing save it were the power of God could bring this upon me; yea, and I always knew that there was a God.

53 But behold, the devil hath deceived me; for he appeared unto me in the form of an angel, and said unto me: Go and reclaim this people, for they have all gone astray after an unknown God. And he said unto me: There is no God; yea, and he taught me that which I should say. And I have taught his words; and I taught them because they were pleasing unto the carnal mind; and I taught them, even until I had much success, insomuch that I verily believed that they were true; and for this cause I withstood the truth, even until I have brought this great curse upon me.

54 Now when he had said this, he besought that Alma should pray unto God, that the curse might be taken from him.

55 But Alma said unto him: If this curse should be taken from thee thou wouldst again lead away the hearts of this people; therefore, it shall be unto thee even as the Lord will.

56 And it came to pass that the curse was not taken off of Korihor; but he was cast out, and went about from house to house begging for his food.

57 Now the knowledge of what had happened unto Korihor was immediately published throughout all the land; yea, the proclamation was sent forth by the chief judge to all the people in the land, declaring unto those who had believed in the words of Korihor that they must speedily repent, lest the same judgments would come unto them.

58 And it came to pass that they were all convinced of the wickedness of Korihor; therefore they were all converted again unto the Lord; and this put an end to the iniquity after the manner of Korihor. And Korihor did go about from house to house, begging food for his support.

59 And it came to pass that as he went forth among the people, yea, among a people who had separated themselves from the Nephites and called themselves Zoramites, being led by a man whose name was Zoram—and as he went forth amongst them, behold, he was run upon and trodden down, even until he was dead.

60 And thus we see the end of him who perverteth the ways of the Lord; and thus we see that the devil will not support his children at the last day, but doth speedily drag them down to hell.

[Hie'ing to Kolob]

When someone says "follow the prophet" I've never once thought "follow a man" I've always thought consciously about what the Lord's message through him for me personally may be. Can the Lord also speak to us individually? Absolutely. Does following a prophet take away from the desire to go to Christ directly? No that is what the prophets encourage us to do. Do the prophets encourage a one on one relationship with Christ. Absolutely. So why follow a prophet? Here are a few good reasons and illustrations:

D&C 1:4 And the voice of warning shall be unto all people, by the mouths of my disciples, whom I have chosen in these last days.

38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.

1 Nephi 22:2 And I, Nephi, said unto them: Behold they were manifest unto the prophet by the voice of the Spirit; for by the Spirit are all things made known unto the prophets, which shall come upon the children of men according to the flesh.

D&C 68:3 And this is the ensample unto them, that they shall speak as they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost.

4 And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.

5 Behold, this is the promise of the Lord unto you, O ye my servants.

Moses 6:26 And it came to pass that Enoch journeyed in the land, among the people; and as he journeyed, the Spirit of God descended out of heaven, and abode upon him.

27 And he heard a voice from heaven, saying: Enoch, my son, prophesy unto this people, and say unto them—Repent, for thus saith the Lord: I am angry with this people, and my fierce anger is kindled against them; for their hearts have waxed hard, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes cannot see afar off;

28 And for these many generations, ever since the day that I created them, have they gone astray, and have denied me, and have sought their own counsels in the dark; and in their own abominations have they devised murder, and have not kept the commandments, which I gave unto their father, Adam.

29 Wherefore, they have foresworn themselves, and, by their oaths, they have brought upon themselves death; and a hell I have prepared for them, if they repent not;

30 And this is a decree, which I have sent forth in the beginning of the world, from my own mouth, from the foundation thereof, and by the mouths of my servants, thy fathers, have I decreed it, even as it shall be sent forth in the world, unto the ends thereof.

31 And when Enoch had heard these words, he bowed himself to the earth, before the Lord, and spake before the Lord, saying: Why is it that I have found favor in thy sight, and am but a lad, and all the people hate me; for I am slow of speech; wherefore am I thy servant?

32 And the Lord said unto Enoch: Go forth and do as I have commanded thee, and no man shall pierce thee. Open thy mouth, and it shall be filled, and I will give thee utterance, for all flesh is in my hands, and I will do as seemeth me good.

33 Say unto this people: Choose ye this day, to serve the Lord God who made you.

34 Behold my Spirit is upon you, wherefore all thy words will I justify; and the mountains shall flee before you, and the rivers shall turn from their course; and thou shalt abide in me, and I in you; therefore walk with me.

35 And the Lord spake unto Enoch, and said unto him: Anoint thine eyes with clay, and wash them, and thou shalt see. And he did so.

36 And he beheld the spirits that God had created; and he beheld also things which were not visible to the natural eye; and from thenceforth came the saying abroad in the land: A seer hath the Lord raised up unto his people.

37 And it came to pass that Enoch went forth in the land, among the people, standing upon the hills and the high places, and cried with a loud voice, testifying against their works; and all men were offended because of him.

38 And they came forth to hear him, upon the high places, saying unto the tent-keepers: Tarry ye here and keep the tents, while we go yonder to behold the seer, for he prophesieth, and there is a strange thing in the land; a wild man hath come among us.

Can you imagine what would have happened to the city of Enoch if they hadn't listened or believed in Enoch's words? Point being for many people it starts with Prophets and ends with Christ.

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

D&C 132:7 And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this power in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead.

D&C 107:65 Wherefore, it must needs be that one be appointed of the High Priesthood to preside over the priesthood, and he shall be called President of the High Priesthood of the Church;

66 Or, in other words, the Presiding High Priest over the High Priesthood of the Church.

67 From the same comes the administering of ordinances and blessings upon the church, by the laying on of the hands.

91 And again, the duty of the President of the office of the High Priesthood is to preside over the whole church, and to be like unto Moses—

92 Behold, here is wisdom; yea, to be a seer, a revelator, a translator, and a prophet, having all the gifts of God which he bestows upon the head of the church.

D&C 43:1 O hearken, ye elders of my church, and give ear to the words which I shall speak unto you.

2 For behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, that ye have received a commandment for a law unto my church, through him whom I have appointed unto you to receive commandments and revelations from my hand.

3 And this ye shall know assuredly—that there is none other appointed unto you to receive commandments and revelations until he be taken, if he abide in me.

4 But verily, verily, I say unto you, that none else shall be appointed unto this gift except it be through him; for if it be taken from him he shall not have power except to appoint another in his stead.

5 And this shall be a law unto you, that ye receive not the teachings of any that shall come before you as revelations or commandments;

6 And this I give unto you that you may not be deceived, that you may know they are not of me.

7 For verily I say unto you, that he that is ordained of me shall come in at the gate and be ordained as I have told you before, to teach those revelations which you have received and shall receive through him whom I have appointed.

When Christ came to the Americas he called prophets and apostles even though everyone there had the greatest blessings available to members of his church, that of being comforted and blessed by Christ personally. So why did he call prophets?

21 And the Lord said unto him: I give unto you power that ye shall baptize this people when I am again ascended into heaven.

22 And again the Lord called others, and said unto them likewise; and he gave unto them power to baptize. And he said unto them: On this wise shall ye baptize; and there shall be no disputations among you.

23 Verily I say unto you, that whoso repenteth of his sins through your words, and desireth to be baptized in my name, on this wise shall ye baptize them—Behold, ye shall go down and stand in the water, and in my name shall ye baptize them.

3 Nephi 12:1 And it came to pass that when Jesus had spoken these words unto Nephi, and to those who had been called, (now the number of them who had been called, and received power and authority to baptize, was twelve) and behold, he stretched forth his hand unto the multitude, and cried unto them, saying: Blessed are ye if ye shall give heed unto the words of these twelve whom I have chosen from among you to minister unto you, and to be your servants; and unto them I have given power that they may baptize you with water; and after that ye are baptized with water, behold, I will baptize you with fire and with the Holy Ghost; therefore blessed are ye if ye shall believe in me and be baptized, after that ye have seen me and know that I am.

2 And again, more blessed are they who shall believe in your words because that ye shall testify that ye have seen me, and that ye know that I am. Yea, blessed are they who shall believe in your words, and come down into the depths of humility and be baptized, for they shall be visited with fire and with the Holy Ghost, and shall receive a remission of their sins.

Wow. That is comprehensive. Im not arguing against the need for organization, leadership, ministers, teachers etc in the Church - it is obvious that is necessary. What I do have concerns about is how we elevate the "Prophet". As I understand the NT, the gift of prophecy was the greatest of spiritual gifts that all should hope for. "Prophet" was more a characteristic of someone (who had the gift of prophecy), than a specific position of authority - the NT church had many Prophets (male and female). As I recall, following the death of Joseph Smith, the Presidents of the Church did not regard themselves as "The Prophet," until the 1950s - 1960s - though they were ordained as such as members of the 12.

[Craig Johnson]

What I do have concerns about is how we elevate the "Prophet".

How is that?

[I AM]

I think the title of this post should be renamed to -
"What are you doing to follow Jesus Christ ?

For all you, so called good members that say,
"I follow the prophet", then why don't you do it !

Do you really follow the prophet ?, are you sure about that ?,
and do you do what he says to do ?
Has the prophet asked you to follow him ?
Does the prophet say - "come, follow me" ?, NO !
so WHY would you say "I follow the prophet " ?
if he didn't ask you to.

WHO says, "come, follow me" ?
And who does the prophet and the church say to follow ?
JESUS CHRIST

SO WHY DON'T YOU DO IT ! ! !

I found this statement - a member made, that
shows the modern Mormon mentality these days.
"You cannot follow Jesus Christ unless you follow the prophet."

That is probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
YOU DON'T NEED THE PROPHET IF YOU HAVE CHRIST !
Yes , you can come to Christ WITHOUT the prophet !
There are people all over the world, probably better than you and me,
that believe in Christ and know him, and have never even heard of our prophet.

If you follow the prophet, you still need to come to Jesus Christ.
but if you come unto Christ, and know Him for yourself,
as we all need to, then you will see that He is the ONLY ONE
you need to follow and look to for your salvation.

But if you still really feel that you need to follow someone,
then follow the same one the prophet does -
the Lord Jesus Christ.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COME, FOLLOW ME
https://www.lds.org/manual/come-follow-me?lang=eng
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

25 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself,
and take up his cross and follow me.
JST Matthew 16:25


3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ,
whom thou hast sent.
John 17:3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Come, Follow Me” by Practicing Christian Love and Service
By Elder Robert D. Hales
Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

"When the Savior called His disciples to follow Him ... "

"As we follow Jesus Christ, His love motivates us to support each other on our mortal journey.
We cannot do it alone."

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... e?lang=eng
---------------

I rest my case.
I'm through with this.

[Finrock]

I found this statement - a member made, that
shows the modern Mormon mentality these days.
"You cannot follow Jesus Christ unless you follow the prophet."

That is probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
YOU DON'T NEED THE PROPHET IF YOU HAVE CHRIST !
Yes , you can come to Christ WITHOUT the prophet !
There are people all over the world, probably better than you and me,
that believe in Christ and know him, and have never even heard of our prophet.

If you follow the prophet, you still need to come to Jesus Christ.
but if you come unto Christ, and know Him for yourself,
as we all need to, then you will see that He is the ONLY ONE
you need to follow and look to for your salvation.

The pendulum has swung too far to the side of veneration for too many members. It isn't that our leaders are bad people and we shouldn't listen to them, etc., its more of how members treat the leaders, how they are prioritized above other people or other ideas. Why don't Mormons get all giddy, excited, and line up and wait for hours to shake the hand of the "lost sheep"? Why aren't we celebrating the lives of the inactives, the lonely, downtrodden, or the depressed? Imagine what light we could introduce in to the world if we treated every member of the Church or every person as good as Mormons treat their prophets, their apostles?

What if you had the same love for your fellow man as you do for the "brethren"? What if you defended the least member among us as vigorously and as loyally as many members defend the leaders?

-Finrock

[I AM]

btw
for those who doubt me about my respect and feelings for our prophet and church leaders,
I think they are some of the greatest men you could find ANYWHERE and do their best
to be an example for all of us.
But they too are just men and try to serve christ, as we all should,
and we shouldn't idolize them to the point that we lose sight of who they are
teaching us to look to and follow, and who they themselves follow and who's church this is - Jesus Christ

[Thinker]

I think the title of this post should be renamed to -
"What are you doing to follow Jesus Christ ?

For all you, so called good members that say,
"I follow the prophet", then why don't you do it !

Do you really follow the prophet ?, are you sure about that ?,
and do you do what he says to do ?
Has the prophet asked you to follow him ?
Does the prophet say - "come, follow me" ?, NO !
so WHY would you say "I follow the prophet " ?
if he didn't ask you to.

WHO says, "come, follow me" ?
And who does the prophet and the church say to follow ?
JESUS CHRIST

SO WHY DON'T YOU DO IT ! ! !

I found this statement - a member made, that
shows the modern Mormon mentality these days.
"You cannot follow Jesus Christ unless you follow the prophet."

That is probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
YOU DON'T NEED THE PROPHET IF YOU HAVE CHRIST !
Yes , you can come to Christ WITHOUT the prophet !
There are people all over the world, probably better than you and me,
that believe in Christ and know him, and have never even heard of our prophet.

If you follow the prophet, you still need to come to Jesus Christ.
but if you come unto Christ, and know Him for yourself,
as we all need to, then you will see that He is the ONLY ONE
you need to follow and look to for your salvation.

But if you still really feel that you need to follow someone,
then follow the same one the prophet does -
the Lord Jesus Christ.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COME, FOLLOW ME
https://www.lds.org/manual/come-follow-me?lang=eng
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

25 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself,
and take up his cross and follow me.
JST Matthew 16:25


3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ,
whom thou hast sent.
John 17:3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Come, Follow Me” by Practicing Christian Love and Service
By Elder Robert D. Hales
Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

"When the Savior called His disciples to follow Him ... "

"As we follow Jesus Christ, His love motivates us to support each other on our mortal journey.
We cannot do it alone."

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... e?lang=eng
---------------

I rest my case.
I'm through with this.

Excellent!

I will point out that there is a song, “Follow the Prophet” which children are taught to sing/chant. And for many years an hour each sunday was dedicated to studying lds church leaders. There are hymns that are dedicated to church leaders that are sung in worship services. So it’s not just that members are coming up with this themselves. The leaders and curriculum have taught members to follow and prioritize them. I believe it is wrong and against basic lower laws (have no other gods before God) and against Christ’s warnings.

I also appreciate that we all have good to share- including church leaders. Still, nobody should be followed except God.

[Thinker]

The only official interpretation of “hot drinks” (D&C 89:9) in the Word of Wisdom is the statement made by early Church leaders that the term “hot drinks” means tea and coffee. ...

Similar language appears in a New Era article.

Who said what or when isn’t referenced

New Research Confirms: "Hot Drinks" Are Not Good for Your Body (but It's Not About the Caffeine)

Apparently some people drink stuff exceeding 149 degrees Fahrenheit which understanding doesn’t require further reference or interpretation.

Fascinating! Thanks for sharing! All this time, some with really hot chocolate pointing fingers at ice-tea drinkers had it all wrong!

It also suggests the need to consider multiple perspectives before jumping to conclusions and before sticking to one’s own limited interpretation. It is also a reminder of the need to never trust in one person for everything as if they were an all-knowing infallible god. ( I don’t ask a car mechanic to do surgery on me.) Ideally, we all learn from one another and that happens in an environment where we all feel free to speak our minds without fear of being ostracized.

[Craig Johnson]

I think the title of this post should be renamed to -
"What are you doing to follow Jesus Christ ?

For all you, so called good members that say,
"I follow the prophet", then why don't you do it !

Do you really follow the prophet ?, are you sure about that ?,
and do you do what he says to do ?
Has the prophet asked you to follow him ?
Does the prophet say - "come, follow me" ?, NO !
so WHY would you say "I follow the prophet " ?
if he didn't ask you to.

WHO says, "come, follow me" ?
And who does the prophet and the church say to follow ?
JESUS CHRIST

SO WHY DON'T YOU DO IT ! ! !

I found this statement - a member made, that
shows the modern Mormon mentality these days.
"You cannot follow Jesus Christ unless you follow the prophet."

That is probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
YOU DON'T NEED THE PROPHET IF YOU HAVE CHRIST !
Yes , you can come to Christ WITHOUT the prophet !
There are people all over the world, probably better than you and me,
that believe in Christ and know him, and have never even heard of our prophet.

If you follow the prophet, you still need to come to Jesus Christ.
but if you come unto Christ, and know Him for yourself,
as we all need to, then you will see that He is the ONLY ONE
you need to follow and look to for your salvation.

But if you still really feel that you need to follow someone,
then follow the same one the prophet does -
the Lord Jesus Christ.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COME, FOLLOW ME
https://www.lds.org/manual/come-follow-me?lang=eng
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

25 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself,
and take up his cross and follow me.
JST Matthew 16:25


3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ,
whom thou hast sent.
John 17:3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Come, Follow Me” by Practicing Christian Love and Service
By Elder Robert D. Hales
Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

"When the Savior called His disciples to follow Him ... "

"As we follow Jesus Christ, His love motivates us to support each other on our mortal journey.
We cannot do it alone."

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... e?lang=eng
---------------

I rest my case.
I'm through with this.

You have no case.
You can't follow the Lord without following a prophet first, since the Lord is revealed to us through His prophets, the Lord left no written record. In order to follow the Lord you first have to follow a prophet otherwise you would not know about the Lord or ever begin to follow Him. Where did you learn about the Lord? This information came to us through prophets, therefore we follow prophets to the Lord.
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... e?lang=eng
Following the prophet is so basic that it is taught to LDS children, by leaders of the church, under the inspiration of the Lord and His Spirit.
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1989/03/teac ... t?lang=eng
If you want to follow the Lord, if you actually want to, you will have to follow a Prophet first.

2 Thessalonians 3:7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;

8 Neither did we eat any man’s bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:

9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.

You will follow the prophets in order to follow the Lord or you will not follow the Lord.

Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.

17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

[shadow]

Reasons to follow the prophet-

7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! (why wouldn't they? Because they refused to follow the prophets)
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he (the prophet) that cometh in the name of the Lord.

4 Wherefore, meaning the church, thou shalt give heed unto all his (the prophet) words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me; (that means if you want to follow Christ, you'll follow His prophet. The next verse says the same thing)
5 For his word ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith.
6 For by doing these things the gates of hell shall not prevail against you; yea, and the Lord God will disperse the powers of darkness from before you, and cause the heavens to shake for your good, and his name’s glory.
7 For thus saith the Lord God: Him have I inspired to move the cause of Zion in mighty power for good, and his diligence I know, and his prayers I have heard.


6 And they pitched their tents round about the temple, every man having his tent with the door thereof towards the temple, that thereby they might remain in their tents and hear the words which king Benjamin should speak unto them;
7 For the multitude being so great that king Benjamin could not teach them all within the walls of the temple, therefore he caused a tower to be erected, that thereby his people might hear the words which he should speak unto them.
8 And it came to pass that he began to speak to his people from the tower; and they could not all hear his words because of the greatness of the multitude; therefore he caused that the words which he spake should be written and sent forth among those that were not under the sound of his voice, that they might also receive his words.

The pattern God set up since Adam is to call prophets. Those who follow the prophets are saved, those who don't are rejected and destroyed. The scriptures are full of examples of this pattern. Those who followed Moses crossed the red sea. Those who followed Noah made it onto the ark. Those who followed Enoch were taken to Heaven. Not all are big events, but those who follow the prophets are saved by Christ and the Father in the Celestial Kingdom.

I think some of you are confusing the word "follow" with "worship". That's your mistake.

[natasha]

To me, following the Prophet means to listen to their counsel...and do it!!! I've personally never heard any counsel in my lifetime that did not give me direction to the Savior. President Nelson in now the prophet for today and I have no doubt he will counsel us with words of wisdom and inspiration as the designated mouthpiece as was the Savior the mouthpiece for the will of the Father. Do I believe the "church is true"? Yes, and by saying that I am saying that the gospel is true. I also believe that the Church has been set up perfectly and given to IMperfect people to run in order to spread the gospel all over the world. When I hear someone say "the Church is true"....I know what they mean even though it has become part of our culture to say it that way. And, when I hear someone say to "follow the Prophet" I don't believe they are telling me that it is through the Prophet we are saved. I already know that our salvation comes through the Savior to the Father. There is no doubt in my mind that counsel received from our current Prophet is worth pondering and acting on as it will help us get closer to the Savior and know Him better. The Savior was sent to be His Father's mouthpiece in order to bring us home to the Father. Why is this so hard to understand by some?

[Finrock]

The problem isn't about listening to leaders of the Church or that the leaders of the Church are evil. The problem is with how leaders are prioritized by many members (a whole lot of members) above other people and other things when this prioritization is not justified and when in fact this prioritization is spiritually harmful. Although we are not a cult, many members of the Church treat our leaders as if they were a part of a cult. Unquestioning loyalty, you can't fault the leaders, almost unquestioning obedience to anything they say (whether spiritual or secular) because one received a witness that they are a prophet of God, treating the leaders like celebrities, and in some cases behavior that is akin to worshiping the leaders.

Why don't Mormons get all giddy, excited, and line up and wait for hours to shake the hand of the "lost sheep" or brother/sister so-and-so? Why aren't we celebrating the lives of the inactives, the lonely, downtrodden, or the depressed? Imagine what light we could introduce in to the world if we treated every member of the Church or every person as good as Mormons treat their prophets, their apostles?

What if you had the same love for your fellow man as you do for the "brethren"? What if you defended the least member among us as vigorously and as loyally as many members defend the leaders? What if every person was treated and viewed through the same prism/glass/light as the apostles are?

-Finrock

[Finrock]

Reasons to follow the prophet-

7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! (why wouldn't they? Because they refused to follow the prophets)
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he (the prophet) that cometh in the name of the Lord.

4 Wherefore, meaning the church, thou shalt give heed unto all his (the prophet) words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me; (that means if you want to follow Christ, you'll follow His prophet. The next verse says the same thing)
5 For his word ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith.
6 For by doing these things the gates of hell shall not prevail against you; yea, and the Lord God will disperse the powers of darkness from before you, and cause the heavens to shake for your good, and his name’s glory.
7 For thus saith the Lord God: Him have I inspired to move the cause of Zion in mighty power for good, and his diligence I know, and his prayers I have heard.


6 And they pitched their tents round about the temple, every man having his tent with the door thereof towards the temple, that thereby they might remain in their tents and hear the words which king Benjamin should speak unto them;
7 For the multitude being so great that king Benjamin could not teach them all within the walls of the temple, therefore he caused a tower to be erected, that thereby his people might hear the words which he should speak unto them.
8 And it came to pass that he began to speak to his people from the tower; and they could not all hear his words because of the greatness of the multitude; therefore he caused that the words which he spake should be written and sent forth among those that were not under the sound of his voice, that they might also receive his words.

The pattern God set up since Adam is to call prophets. Those who follow the prophets are saved, those who don't are rejected and destroyed. The scriptures are full of examples of this pattern. Those who followed Moses crossed the red sea. Those who followed Noah made it onto the ark. Those who followed Enoch were taken to Heaven. Not all are big events, but those who follow the prophets are saved by Christ and the Father in the Celestial Kingdom.

I think some of you are confusing the word "follow" with "worship". That's your mistake.

Prophets are sent to people who are sinning and who need to repent. They are sent to bring people back to Jesus Christ. Prophets stand and point people to Jesus, saying, look, follow Him. Prophets and the current organizational structure of the Church isn't an eternal thing or it doesn't represent the end, it is a means to an end. Prophets are servants, not masters. True prophets of Jesus Christ don't want to be followed, instead they want people to believe their testimony of Jesus and start following Jesus, just like they are following Jesus.

-Finrock

[eddie]

Ear Wiggle.gif (37.37 KiB) Viewed 2221 times

[natasha]

What if there are some that already do that, Finrock? I have little interaction with the First Presidency or the Quorum of the Twelve...personal interaction I'm talking about. But I do have lots of one on one interaction with other members of the Church and just people in general....and as I interact with them I sincerely always try to show them I love them. I dare say members of my Ward do a better job than I do. Last year we had the opportunity to welcome back a brother who had gone through porn addiction. He and his wife spoke to an adult session on a fifth Sunday. The out pouring of love they have received was incredible. He, in particular, told us how grateful he was for a Bishop and members that aided him in his return to full fellowship. Most of the type of ministering is done quietly with many inactives, the lonely, downtrodden, or the depressed as you referred to them. I have personally witnessed members quietly going about helping those in need...regardless of who they were. I have also witnessed a few people who have abused the good hearts of these people. I don't personally perceive the members "get all giddy"...I perceive it as acts of support and sustaining and appreciation of those who truly work tirelessly and mostly in their late years. We don't interact with them daily...or weekly...or monthly...or sometimes never. It might even be seen as an outward moment to let them know we love them. We don't line up in our wards because we are interacting with people all the time. If it is your perception that we behave like a "cult", then that's your perception and your perception is your reality. I could ask you why you don't give the average member of the Church who does truly minister in private their due? And by the way, have you taken a personal poll member to member to see who they prioritize in their life? I bet it would turn out much different than what you contend.

[Finrock]

What if there are some that already do that, Finrock?

I didn't say all, I said many.

As a life long member who has been active since I was 10 years old and to this very day I am active, I have witnessed thousands of Mormons, in many wards, and in various stakes, getting all giddy, excited, and acting like a celebrity is in town when an apostle shows up. I have witnessed huge lines, in multiple places, states, wards, stakes, of Mormons waiting to talk to and shake the hand of an apostle. I've heard the talk, I've heard the praises, I've heard the speculations, and I've seen people emotionally overwhelmed (think Elvis fans) at the sight of an apostle.

I've witnessed a few (not thousands, not hundreds, not dozens) Mormons, over the years, treat a stranger who comes in to our ward as good as or better than a typical Mormon would treat an apostle.

Yeah, not every Mormon treats their Church leaders like cults treat their Church leaders, but many Mormons do. How is this manifest? Here are the signs: Unquestioning loyalty, unquestioning obedience, forbidden to fault leaders ever, even when its merited and/or justified or rational, and treating leaders like celebrities.

What I've described happens a lot in my religion. It is true and many, many Mormons do it and subscribe to this form of thinking and this behavior. This form of thinking and this behavior is wrong.

-Finrock

[drtanner]

Answer this question honestly finrock. Would you go stand in line early to shake the hand and express gratitude to Joseph Smith? Nephi? Moses? Noah? Alma? Or Enoch?

[shadow]

Reasons to follow the prophet-

7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! (why wouldn't they? Because they refused to follow the prophets)
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he (the prophet) that cometh in the name of the Lord.

4 Wherefore, meaning the church, thou shalt give heed unto all his (the prophet) words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me; (that means if you want to follow Christ, you'll follow His prophet. The next verse says the same thing)
5 For his word ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith.
6 For by doing these things the gates of hell shall not prevail against you; yea, and the Lord God will disperse the powers of darkness from before you, and cause the heavens to shake for your good, and his name’s glory.
7 For thus saith the Lord God: Him have I inspired to move the cause of Zion in mighty power for good, and his diligence I know, and his prayers I have heard.


6 And they pitched their tents round about the temple, every man having his tent with the door thereof towards the temple, that thereby they might remain in their tents and hear the words which king Benjamin should speak unto them;
7 For the multitude being so great that king Benjamin could not teach them all within the walls of the temple, therefore he caused a tower to be erected, that thereby his people might hear the words which he should speak unto them.
8 And it came to pass that he began to speak to his people from the tower; and they could not all hear his words because of the greatness of the multitude; therefore he caused that the words which he spake should be written and sent forth among those that were not under the sound of his voice, that they might also receive his words.

The pattern God set up since Adam is to call prophets. Those who follow the prophets are saved, those who don't are rejected and destroyed. The scriptures are full of examples of this pattern. Those who followed Moses crossed the red sea. Those who followed Noah made it onto the ark. Those who followed Enoch were taken to Heaven. Not all are big events, but those who follow the prophets are saved by Christ and the Father in the Celestial Kingdom.

I think some of you are confusing the word "follow" with "worship". That's your mistake.

Prophets are sent to people who are sinning and who need to repent. They are sent to bring people back to Jesus Christ. Prophets stand and point people to Jesus, saying, look, follow Him. Prophets and the current organizational structure of the Church isn't an eternal thing or it doesn't represent the end, it is a means to an end. Prophets are servants, not masters. True prophets of Jesus Christ don't want to be followed, instead they want people to believe their testimony of Jesus and start following Jesus, just like they are following Jesus.

-Finrock

True prophets, in fact, do want people to follow them. Maybe you missed my Book of Mormon reference to King Benjamin who had the people gather around so they could listen to him and he had scribes write down what he said so people could read what he said. That's how most of us here define "following". It's no different than General Conference today. Yes, the scriptures teach that we should all be prophets and receive revelation for ourselves and those within our stewardship, however, certain keys only belong to certain people in certain offices. For example-
128 Which Twelve hold the keys to open up the authority of my kingdom upon the four corners of the earth, and after that to send my word to every creature.
It appears that Christ is claiming that certain keys are required for salvation and only the 12 have those keys. Neither you or I have them and yet those keys are required. Nobody can be perfected without those keys that the Prophet holds. Yep, I'll follow that guy, or rather, that office. Doesn't matter who's in that office, Hinckley, Monson, Nelson or whoever, he holds the necessary keys.

65 Wherefore, it must needs be that one be appointed of the High Priesthood to preside over the priesthood, and he shall be called President of the High Priesthood of the Church;
66 Or, in other words, the Presiding High Priest over the High Priesthood of the Church.
67 From the same comes the administering of ordinances and blessings upon the church, by the laying on of the hands.

From whom comes the administering of ordinances? The president of the church- Russell M. Nelson.

[Finrock]

Reasons to follow the prophet-

7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! (why wouldn't they? Because they refused to follow the prophets)
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he (the prophet) that cometh in the name of the Lord.

4 Wherefore, meaning the church, thou shalt give heed unto all his (the prophet) words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me; (that means if you want to follow Christ, you'll follow His prophet. The next verse says the same thing)
5 For his word ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith.
6 For by doing these things the gates of hell shall not prevail against you; yea, and the Lord God will disperse the powers of darkness from before you, and cause the heavens to shake for your good, and his name’s glory.
7 For thus saith the Lord God: Him have I inspired to move the cause of Zion in mighty power for good, and his diligence I know, and his prayers I have heard.


6 And they pitched their tents round about the temple, every man having his tent with the door thereof towards the temple, that thereby they might remain in their tents and hear the words which king Benjamin should speak unto them;
7 For the multitude being so great that king Benjamin could not teach them all within the walls of the temple, therefore he caused a tower to be erected, that thereby his people might hear the words which he should speak unto them.
8 And it came to pass that he began to speak to his people from the tower; and they could not all hear his words because of the greatness of the multitude; therefore he caused that the words which he spake should be written and sent forth among those that were not under the sound of his voice, that they might also receive his words.

The pattern God set up since Adam is to call prophets. Those who follow the prophets are saved, those who don't are rejected and destroyed. The scriptures are full of examples of this pattern. Those who followed Moses crossed the red sea. Those who followed Noah made it onto the ark. Those who followed Enoch were taken to Heaven. Not all are big events, but those who follow the prophets are saved by Christ and the Father in the Celestial Kingdom.

I think some of you are confusing the word "follow" with "worship". That's your mistake.

Prophets are sent to people who are sinning and who need to repent. They are sent to bring people back to Jesus Christ. Prophets stand and point people to Jesus, saying, look, follow Him. Prophets and the current organizational structure of the Church isn't an eternal thing or it doesn't represent the end, it is a means to an end. Prophets are servants, not masters. True prophets of Jesus Christ don't want to be followed, instead they want people to believe their testimony of Jesus and start following Jesus, just like they are following Jesus.

-Finrock

True prophets, in fact, do want people to follow them. Maybe you missed my Book of Mormon reference to King Benjamin who had the people gather around so they could listen to him and he had scribes write down what he said so people could read what he said. That's how most of us here define "following". It's no different than General Conference today. Yes, the scriptures teach that we should all be prophets and receive revelation for ourselves and those within our stewardship, however, certain keys only belong to certain people in certain offices. For example-
128 Which Twelve hold the keys to open up the authority of my kingdom upon the four corners of the earth, and after that to send my word to every creature.
It appears that Christ is claiming that certain keys are required for salvation and only the 12 have those keys. Neither you or I have them and yet those keys are required. Nobody can be perfected without those keys that the Prophet holds. Yep, I'll follow that guy, or rather, that office. Doesn't matter who's in that office, Hinckley, Monson, Nelson or whoever, he holds the necessary keys.

65 Wherefore, it must needs be that one be appointed of the High Priesthood to preside over the priesthood, and he shall be called President of the High Priesthood of the Church;
66 Or, in other words, the Presiding High Priest over the High Priesthood of the Church.
67 From the same comes the administering of ordinances and blessings upon the church, by the laying on of the hands.

From whom comes the administering of ordinances? The president of the church- Russell M. Nelson.

If by "follow" you mean listen to their testimony, OK. But, King Benjamin didn't want any "followers", didn't want to be "followed", he wanted people to be converted to Jesus and then follow Jesus, like we have been commanded. We've only been commanded in the scriptures to "follow" Jesus. If you want to define "follow" to mean something special when you are using it, OK, just make sure you make it clear that when you are using follow you are saying, listen to. But, in the end, we should only be listening to God, who speaks through Spirit, and so, if a prophet is speaking and he is saying something that we need to hear and to understanding, then, it will be God speaking and we will be following God, not the prophet.

-Finrock