LDS Freedom Forum

MANCUB wrote: ↑September 22nd, 2019, 4:58 am - The rev 12 sign 2 yrs ago was when a young man was sealed up unto the Lord and will be caught up VERY soon as per the story in the stars...

MANCUB wrote: ↑September 22nd, 2019, 4:58 am You seem possibly awake....

- The Holy Ghost is Jesus' spirit
- Jesus is Our Eternal father and his father is our grandfather... - 3 Ne 19
- Jesus has been raising worlds for many rounds... He had a glorified PHYSICAL body before he came here as the savior as well as after he was resurrected - ether 3
- The let us make man in our image is Jesus and our mother
- The light of christ is the voice of our mother, the Holy ghost is the voice of our father - proverbs 8
- Their is more then 1 satan and they have had physical bodies - D&C 129, Ezek 28..
- The last head satan/angel is about to be cast out of heaven, for he has not yet... rev 12, D&C 76...
- The rev 12 sign 2 yrs ago was when a young man was sealed up unto the Lord and will be caught up VERY soon as per the story in the stars...
- Isaiah 54 whoever claims to be the last day church must also claim that the lord left her because she sinned so much in her youth, but he will reclaim her again...


If these resonate or feed you..... then we should talk!

.....ManCub.....

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑September 23rd, 2019, 2:48 am And the plot thickens.

Alaris wrote: ↑September 23rd, 2019, 11:04 pm

MANCUB wrote: ↑September 22nd, 2019, 4:58 am You seem possibly awake....

- The Holy Ghost is Jesus' spirit
- Jesus is Our Eternal father and his father is our grandfather... - 3 Ne 19
- Jesus has been raising worlds for many rounds... He had a glorified PHYSICAL body before he came here as the savior as well as after he was resurrected - ether 3
- The let us make man in our image is Jesus and our mother
- The light of christ is the voice of our mother, the Holy ghost is the voice of our father - proverbs 8
- Their is more then 1 satan and they have had physical bodies - D&C 129, Ezek 28..
- The last head satan/angel is about to be cast out of heaven, for he has not yet... rev 12, D&C 76...
- The rev 12 sign 2 yrs ago was when a young man was sealed up unto the Lord and will be caught up VERY soon as per the story in the stars...
- Isaiah 54 whoever claims to be the last day church must also claim that the lord left her because she sinned so much in her youth, but he will reclaim her again...


If these resonate or feed you..... then we should talk!

.....ManCub.....

Some interesting stuff here but your seem to be suggesting that the Holy Ghost and Jesus are one in the same.

The Holy Ghost is Jesus' spirit if you mean they are separate, and distinct and the holy ghost is Jesus' spiritually Begotten son.

If you believe they are one and the same and that is what you believe then this is yet one more "witness" of the adversarys victory to disappear a distinct individual from the minds of, well just about everyone. The man child is the holy ghost and he is not Jesus.

The fact you said that the 9/23 was the sealing of a young man tells me you may have someone specific in mind. If I'm correct in my assessment in paragraph one, you'll forgive me for considering this young man to be yet another another another another example of a false claimant if I do in fact understand your stance on Jesus being the Holy Ghost. Again, if I'm correct, then the adversarys hand is on clear display. "The Holy Ghost doesn't exist but the man child is this lo here!" says the devil incredibly often.

Pardon my incredulity. I do realize the irony since that's exactly what the adversary is aiming for. He wants us to throw up our hands up due to the frequency of false claimants who are so clearly not. Yet this frequency is yet a witness of his intensity for he knows he has but a short time.

Michael Sherwin wrote: ↑September 22nd, 2019, 3:38 pm

MANCUB wrote: ↑September 22nd, 2019, 4:58 am - The rev 12 sign 2 yrs ago was when a young man was sealed up unto the Lord and will be caught up VERY soon as per the story in the stars...

Whoever he is he is not a young man. He was born before 9/23/2017.

Isaiah 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

Every year there is a feast that is one shabua, 7 days. This man is cut off, caught up, after 62 shabua.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, ...

After 9/23/2017 I was contemplating the sign and its purpose. What came to me was that it was a marker in time. A snapshot so to speak and not a movie like people were making it out to be, i.e. a ten month pregnancy. Since the man child is born before her travail and on 9/23/2017 she is in travail the rest of her children are born as her travail ends.

Isaiah 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

This birth is the resurrection of the dead. Then the Spirit spoke something else to me, 'the sign on 9/23/2017 points to the the date of the man child's birth'. So I was about to search backwards in Stellarium to see if I could find anything. Then the Spirit spoke this to me, 'why are you doing it that way when you already know what date to check'. How I knew what date is another story that need not be gotten into here. I was surprised what I found but I was not surprised that I found something. So why 7/27/1957 and not another close day? Well, the evening of 7/27/1957 was a sabbath day and it was also a new moon. Okay fine, but has that planetary alignment ever happened between 7/27/1957 and 9/23/2017? So I scanned forward and no nothing even close was extant between those two dates. Since I was led by the Spirit to discover this I know that the man child was born 7/27/1957.

Then on 7/27/2017 was an alignment that fulfilled three scriptures concerning the man child.

MERCURY WAS NEXT TO REGULUS
The messenger of the king, Mal 3:1.

Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

MARS WAS NEXT TO THE SUN
The one that stands feeding in the strength of the LORD.

Micah 5:3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.

Micah 5:4 And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.

VENUS WAS AT THE TIP STAR OF THE HORN OF TAURUS
And I will give him power and the morning star.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.

And the moon, the man child's glory was entering Virgo.

Then there was the blood moon sign on 7/27/2018 seen from Jerusalem which is the perfect sign of the man child's cutting off and catching up. And 7/27/2018 was a Jewish holiday which is similar to our valentine's day and said to be a good day for a wedding.

Anyway I don't know if the idea that a sign has a two year delay is valid. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. I do think that the signs being on 7/27 is significant. One then has to decide if this is all just coincidental or if they are really signs.

Alaris wrote: ↑September 23rd, 2019, 11:04 pm

MANCUB wrote: ↑September 22nd, 2019, 4:58 am You seem possibly awake....

- The Holy Ghost is Jesus' spirit
- Jesus is Our Eternal father and his father is our grandfather... - 3 Ne 19
- Jesus has been raising worlds for many rounds... He had a glorified PHYSICAL body before he came here as the savior as well as after he was resurrected - ether 3
- The let us make man in our image is Jesus and our mother
- The light of christ is the voice of our mother, the Holy ghost is the voice of our father - proverbs 8
- Their is more then 1 satan and they have had physical bodies - D&C 129, Ezek 28..
- The last head satan/angel is about to be cast out of heaven, for he has not yet... rev 12, D&C 76...
- The rev 12 sign 2 yrs ago was when a young man was sealed up unto the Lord and will be caught up VERY soon as per the story in the stars...
- Isaiah 54 whoever claims to be the last day church must also claim that the lord left her because she sinned so much in her youth, but he will reclaim her again...


If these resonate or feed you..... then we should talk!

.....ManCub.....

Some interesting stuff here but your seem to be suggesting that the Holy Ghost and Jesus are one in the same.

The Holy Ghost is Jesus' spirit if you mean they are separate, and distinct and the holy ghost is Jesus' spiritually Begotten son.

If you believe they are one and the same and that is what you believe then this is yet one more "witness" of the adversarys victory to disappear a distinct individual from the minds of, well just about everyone. The man child is the holy ghost and he is not Jesus.

The fact you said that the 9/23 was the sealing of a young man tells me you may have someone specific in mind. If I'm correct in my assessment in paragraph one, you'll forgive me for considering this young man to be yet another another another another example of a false claimant if I do in fact understand your stance on Jesus being the Holy Ghost. Again, if I'm correct, then the adversarys hand is on clear display. "The Holy Ghost doesn't exist but the man child is this lo here!" says the devil incredibly often.

Pardon my incredulity. I do realize the irony since that's exactly what the adversary is aiming for. He wants us to throw up our hands up due to the frequency of false claimants who are so clearly not. Yet this frequency is yet a witness of his intensity for he knows he has but a short time.

in the valleys and in all the inhabited places of the country. 14 I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountains of Israel. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. 15 I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down,” says the Lord God. 16“I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment.”

17 ‘And as for you, O My flock, thus says the Lord God: “Behold, I shall judge between sheep and sheep, between rams and goats. 18 Is it too little for you to have eaten up the good pasture, that you must tread down with your feet the [c]residue of your pasture—and to have drunk of the clear waters, that you must foul the residue with your feet? 19 And as for My flock, they eat what you have trampled with your feet, and they drink what you have fouled with your feet.”

20 ‘Therefore thus says the Lord God to them: “Behold, I Myself will judge between the fat and the lean sheep. 21 Because you have pushed with side and shoulder, butted all the weak ones with your horns, and scattered them abroad, 22 therefore I will save My flock, and they shall no longer be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep. 23 I will establish one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them—My servant David. He shall feed them and be their shepherd. 24 And I, the Lord, will be their God, and My servant David a prince among them; I, the Lord, have spoken.
IMO, that highlighted absolutely puts it specifically in the latter days context, but try and preach that and see what happens.

Isaiah 56:

Thus saith the Lord, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.

4 For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

8 The Lord God, which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

9 All ye beasts of the field, come to devour, yea, all ye beasts in the forest.

10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.

11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.

12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.

But, to apply the above, specifically to us today would be to call down wrath upon us...

simpleton wrote: ↑September 24th, 2019, 8:02 am

Alaris wrote: ↑September 23rd, 2019, 11:04 pm

MANCUB wrote: ↑September 22nd, 2019, 4:58 am You seem possibly awake....

- The Holy Ghost is Jesus' spirit
- Jesus is Our Eternal father and his father is our grandfather... - 3 Ne 19
- Jesus has been raising worlds for many rounds... He had a glorified PHYSICAL body before he came here as the savior as well as after he was resurrected - ether 3
- The let us make man in our image is Jesus and our mother
- The light of christ is the voice of our mother, the Holy ghost is the voice of our father - proverbs 8
- Their is more then 1 satan and they have had physical bodies - D&C 129, Ezek 28..
- The last head satan/angel is about to be cast out of heaven, for he has not yet... rev 12, D&C 76...
- The rev 12 sign 2 yrs ago was when a young man was sealed up unto the Lord and will be caught up VERY soon as per the story in the stars...
- Isaiah 54 whoever claims to be the last day church must also claim that the lord left her because she sinned so much in her youth, but he will reclaim her again...


If these resonate or feed you..... then we should talk!

.....ManCub.....

Some interesting stuff here but your seem to be suggesting that the Holy Ghost and Jesus are one in the same.

The Holy Ghost is Jesus' spirit if you mean they are separate, and distinct and the holy ghost is Jesus' spiritually Begotten son.

If you believe they are one and the same and that is what you believe then this is yet one more "witness" of the adversarys victory to disappear a distinct individual from the minds of, well just about everyone. The man child is the holy ghost and he is not Jesus.

The fact you said that the 9/23 was the sealing of a young man tells me you may have someone specific in mind. If I'm correct in my assessment in paragraph one, you'll forgive me for considering this young man to be yet another another another another example of a false claimant if I do in fact understand your stance on Jesus being the Holy Ghost. Again, if I'm correct, then the adversarys hand is on clear display. "The Holy Ghost doesn't exist but the man child is this lo here!" says the devil incredibly often.

Pardon my incredulity. I do realize the irony since that's exactly what the adversary is aiming for. He wants us to throw up our hands up due to the frequency of false claimants who are so clearly not. Yet this frequency is yet a witness of his intensity for he knows he has but a short time.

You do realize, ( I am speculating, but confidently) that all you have written upon this subject, if it was to be brought before the leadership of the church, would be soundly rejected. Especially if a big enough number was being affected by what you are teaching. (Just like Abraham Gileadi) And I would be willing to bet, that your membership would be called into question if you did not relent. The "hands" have been thrown up many many years ago by the Presidency, because of so many false claimants.
Now dont get me wrong, I believe in the vast majority of what you are researching. I think you are going on the right path in these studies. But I also know that the teaching has always come into conflict with the leadership, as the coming forth of this "Davidical King" I believe, is because of the rampant apostasy today all throughout Isreal and the church, from the very top, all the way to the bottom. Isaiah, ( among many other prophets) very clearly points that out for these latter days. And therein is the conflict. Just one of many examples:

Ezekial 34:

1 And the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2“Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God to the shepherds: “Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks? 3 You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool; you slaughter the fatlings, but you do not feed the flock. 4 The weak you have not strengthened, nor have you healed those who were sick, nor bound up the broken, nor brought back what was driven away, nor sought what was lost; but with force and cruelty you have ruled them. 5 So they were scattered because there was no shepherd; and they became food for all the beasts of the field when they were scattered. 6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and on every high hill; yes, My flock was scattered over the whole face of the earth, and no one was seeking or searching for them.”

7‘Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: 8“As I live,” says the Lord God, “surely because My flock became a prey, and My flock became food for every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, nor did My shepherds search for My flock, but the shepherds fed themselves and did not feed My flock”— 9 therefore, O shepherds, hear the word of the Lord! 10 Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require My flock at their hand; I will cause them to cease feeding the sheep, and the shepherds shall feed themselves no more; for I will deliver My flock from their mouths, that they may no longer be food for them.”
11‘For thus says the Lord God: “Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day. 13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land; I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, in the valleys and in all the inhabited places of the country. 14 I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountains of Israel. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. 15 I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down,” says the Lord God. 16“I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment.”

17 ‘And as for you, O My flock, thus says the Lord God: “Behold, I shall judge between sheep and sheep, between rams and goats. 18 Is it too little for you to have eaten up the good pasture, that you must tread down with your feet the [c]residue of your pasture—and to have drunk of the clear waters, that you must foul the residue with your feet? 19 And as for My flock, they eat what you have trampled with your feet, and they drink what you have fouled with your feet.”

20 ‘Therefore thus says the Lord God to them: “Behold, I Myself will judge between the fat and the lean sheep. 21 Because you have pushed with side and shoulder, butted all the weak ones with your horns, and scattered them abroad, 22 therefore I will save My flock, and they shall no longer be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep. 23 I will establish one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them—My servant David. He shall feed them and be their shepherd. 24 And I, the Lord, will be their God, and My servant David a prince among them; I, the Lord, have spoken.
IMO, that highlighted absolutely puts it specifically in the latter days context, but try and preach that and see what happens.

Isaiah 56:

Thus saith the Lord, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.

4 For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

8 The Lord God, which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

9 All ye beasts of the field, come to devour, yea, all ye beasts in the forest.

10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.

11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.

12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.

But, to apply the above, specifically to us today would be to call down wrath upon us...

Alaris wrote: ↑September 24th, 2019, 10:22 am

simpleton wrote: ↑September 24th, 2019, 8:02 am

Alaris wrote: ↑September 23rd, 2019, 11:04 pm

MANCUB wrote: ↑September 22nd, 2019, 4:58 am You seem possibly awake....

- The Holy Ghost is Jesus' spirit
- Jesus is Our Eternal father and his father is our grandfather... - 3 Ne 19
- Jesus has been raising worlds for many rounds... He had a glorified PHYSICAL body before he came here as the savior as well as after he was resurrected - ether 3
- The let us make man in our image is Jesus and our mother
- The light of christ is the voice of our mother, the Holy ghost is the voice of our father - proverbs 8
- Their is more then 1 satan and they have had physical bodies - D&C 129, Ezek 28..
- The last head satan/angel is about to be cast out of heaven, for he has not yet... rev 12, D&C 76...
- The rev 12 sign 2 yrs ago was when a young man was sealed up unto the Lord and will be caught up VERY soon as per the story in the stars...
- Isaiah 54 whoever claims to be the last day church must also claim that the lord left her because she sinned so much in her youth, but he will reclaim her again...


If these resonate or feed you..... then we should talk!

.....ManCub.....

Some interesting stuff here but your seem to be suggesting that the Holy Ghost and Jesus are one in the same.

The Holy Ghost is Jesus' spirit if you mean they are separate, and distinct and the holy ghost is Jesus' spiritually Begotten son.

If you believe they are one and the same and that is what you believe then this is yet one more "witness" of the adversarys victory to disappear a distinct individual from the minds of, well just about everyone. The man child is the holy ghost and he is not Jesus.

The fact you said that the 9/23 was the sealing of a young man tells me you may have someone specific in mind. If I'm correct in my assessment in paragraph one, you'll forgive me for considering this young man to be yet another another another another example of a false claimant if I do in fact understand your stance on Jesus being the Holy Ghost. Again, if I'm correct, then the adversarys hand is on clear display. "The Holy Ghost doesn't exist but the man child is this lo here!" says the devil incredibly often.

Pardon my incredulity. I do realize the irony since that's exactly what the adversary is aiming for. He wants us to throw up our hands up due to the frequency of false claimants who are so clearly not. Yet this frequency is yet a witness of his intensity for he knows he has but a short time.

You do realize, ( I am speculating, but confidently) that all you have written upon this subject, if it was to be brought before the leadership of the church, would be soundly rejected. Especially if a big enough number was being affected by what you are teaching. (Just like Abraham Gileadi) And I would be willing to bet, that your membership would be called into question if you did not relent. The "hands" have been thrown up many many years ago by the Presidency, because of so many false claimants.
Now dont get me wrong, I believe in the vast majority of what you are researching. I think you are going on the right path in these studies. But I also know that the teaching has always come into conflict with the leadership, as the coming forth of this "Davidical King" I believe, is because of the rampant apostasy today all throughout Isreal and the church, from the very top, all the way to the bottom. Isaiah, ( among many other prophets) very clearly points that out for these latter days. And therein is the conflict. Just one of many examples:

Ezekial 34:

1 And the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2“Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God to the shepherds: “Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks? 3 You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool; you slaughter the fatlings, but you do not feed the flock. 4 The weak you have not strengthened, nor have you healed those who were sick, nor bound up the broken, nor brought back what was driven away, nor sought what was lost; but with force and cruelty you have ruled them. 5 So they were scattered because there was no shepherd; and they became food for all the beasts of the field when they were scattered. 6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and on every high hill; yes, My flock was scattered over the whole face of the earth, and no one was seeking or searching for them.”

7‘Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: 8“As I live,” says the Lord God, “surely because My flock became a prey, and My flock became food for every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, nor did My shepherds search for My flock, but the shepherds fed themselves and did not feed My flock”— 9 therefore, O shepherds, hear the word of the Lord! 10 Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require My flock at their hand; I will cause them to cease feeding the sheep, and the shepherds shall feed themselves no more; for I will deliver My flock from their mouths, that they may no longer be food for them.”
11‘For thus says the Lord God: “Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day. 13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land; I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, in the valleys and in all the inhabited places of the country. 14 I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountains of Israel. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. 15 I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down,” says the Lord God. 16“I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment.”

17 ‘And as for you, O My flock, thus says the Lord God: “Behold, I shall judge between sheep and sheep, between rams and goats. 18 Is it too little for you to have eaten up the good pasture, that you must tread down with your feet the [c]residue of your pasture—and to have drunk of the clear waters, that you must foul the residue with your feet? 19 And as for My flock, they eat what you have trampled with your feet, and they drink what you have fouled with your feet.”

20 ‘Therefore thus says the Lord God to them: “Behold, I Myself will judge between the fat and the lean sheep. 21 Because you have pushed with side and shoulder, butted all the weak ones with your horns, and scattered them abroad, 22 therefore I will save My flock, and they shall no longer be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep. 23 I will establish one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them—My servant David. He shall feed them and be their shepherd. 24 And I, the Lord, will be their God, and My servant David a prince among them; I, the Lord, have spoken.
IMO, that highlighted absolutely puts it specifically in the latter days context, but try and preach that and see what happens.

Isaiah 56:

Thus saith the Lord, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.

4 For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

8 The Lord God, which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

9 All ye beasts of the field, come to devour, yea, all ye beasts in the forest.

10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.

11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.

12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.

But, to apply the above, specifically to us today would be to call down wrath upon us...

You forgot Isaiah 28! I need to study Ezekiel more. Many folks take those scriptures to mean our shepherds - the brethren. However, Ephraim is the shepherds. We are all shepherds to the world. Calling us all dumb dogs is a great way to sift the dumb dogs out, as only the proud hate being called, well proud. The guilty and the truth and all that.

That's a great point about the brethren throwing up their hands. I'm pretty sure there was a surge during Joseph Fielding Smith's day (or was it Bruce R's) as an Apostle, which may explain a lot about him and his writings. I also wonder what caused that surge - apparently the adversary doesn't know the day, hour, or decade (or century)

I genuinely believe President Nelson knows and at the very least some, if not all, the apostles.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... u?lang=eng

I bear my personal witness that the Father is at this moment aware of you, your feelings, and the spiritual and temporal needs of everyone around you. I bear testimony that the Father and the Son are sending the Holy Ghost to all who have that gift, ask for that blessing, and seek to be worthy of it. Neither the Father, nor the Son, nor the Holy Ghost force Themselves into our lives. We are free to choose. The Lord has said to all:

“Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

“To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith” (Revelation 3:20–22). ~ President Henry B Eyring

And he just happens to quote the seventh promise of overcoming which doesn't really seem to underscore anything he said above .... hrm .................oh, and throws on the verse that attaches to the end of each of the seven message - hear what the Spirit saith ..... coincidences? I think not.

President Nelson has made some changes in attempt to get us to, well, change. He wants us to use the Spirit instead of using checklists. I don't know about anyone else's ward, but my ward has gone right back to checklists - sorta like Dogs turning to their vomit - dumb dogs.

Matthias wrote: ↑October 2nd, 2019, 10:21 pm I haven't read all 22 pages of this discussion so I apologize if what I'm about to say has been said already.

I have also thought about the possiblity of the Holy Ghost being the Davidic Servant. I think that is a definite possibility.

We don't know for sure though, since according to Isaiah the Lord is hiding the identity of His last days servant in the palm of his hand.

One of the comments on here was about Adam/Michael.

Robert Crossfield who is held as a prophet by a group of Fundamentalists received a bunch of revelations and published them in a book entitled the Second Book of Commandments. In that book it is claimed that after Adam died, he became the Holy Ghost.

I'm not saying I believe that, but I find the idea interesting.

Joseph Smith taught that Elohim, Jehovah, and Michael make up the Godhead. That is also consistent with the three members of the Godhead depicted in the Endowment.

From that standpoint, Michael/Adam would be the Holy Ghost.

Of course the names Father, Son, and Holy Ghost may merely be titles or names for priesthood offices among the God's in yonder heavens.

Alaris wrote: ↑October 2nd, 2019, 10:30 pm

Matthias wrote: ↑October 2nd, 2019, 10:21 pm I haven't read all 22 pages of this discussion so I apologize if what I'm about to say has been said already.

I have also thought about the possiblity of the Holy Ghost being the Davidic Servant. I think that is a definite possibility.

We don't know for sure though, since according to Isaiah the Lord is hiding the identity of His last days servant in the palm of his hand.

One of the comments on here was about Adam/Michael.

Robert Crossfield who is held as a prophet by a group of Fundamentalists received a bunch of revelations and published them in a book entitled the Second Book of Commandments. In that book it is claimed that after Adam died, he became the Holy Ghost.

I'm not saying I believe that, but I find the idea interesting.

Joseph Smith taught that Elohim, Jehovah, and Michael make up the Godhead. That is also consistent with the three members of the Godhead depicted in the Endowment.

From that standpoint, Michael/Adam would be the Holy Ghost.

Of course the names Father, Son, and Holy Ghost may merely be titles or names for priesthood offices among the God's in yonder heavens.

Welcome to the thread! :->

You really should read all 22 pages plus all the linked articles

The Holy Ghost fell upon Adam - so it's either > 1 person or it's not Adam. It's not Adam.

Maybe start here - The Discourse on Abbaton is truly incredible and confirms so much of what I've learned by study and by personal revelation.

https://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/ ... baton.html

... and you're right about Isaiah ... but eventually the truth does come out

Matthias wrote: ↑October 2nd, 2019, 10:48 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑October 2nd, 2019, 10:30 pm

Matthias wrote: ↑October 2nd, 2019, 10:21 pm I haven't read all 22 pages of this discussion so I apologize if what I'm about to say has been said already.

I have also thought about the possiblity of the Holy Ghost being the Davidic Servant. I think that is a definite possibility.

We don't know for sure though, since according to Isaiah the Lord is hiding the identity of His last days servant in the palm of his hand.

One of the comments on here was about Adam/Michael.

Robert Crossfield who is held as a prophet by a group of Fundamentalists received a bunch of revelations and published them in a book entitled the Second Book of Commandments. In that book it is claimed that after Adam died, he became the Holy Ghost.

I'm not saying I believe that, but I find the idea interesting.

Joseph Smith taught that Elohim, Jehovah, and Michael make up the Godhead. That is also consistent with the three members of the Godhead depicted in the Endowment.

From that standpoint, Michael/Adam would be the Holy Ghost.

Of course the names Father, Son, and Holy Ghost may merely be titles or names for priesthood offices among the God's in yonder heavens.

Welcome to the thread! :->

You really should read all 22 pages plus all the linked articles

The Holy Ghost fell upon Adam - so it's either > 1 person or it's not Adam. It's not Adam.

Maybe start here - The Discourse on Abbaton is truly incredible and confirms so much of what I've learned by study and by personal revelation.

https://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/ ... baton.html

... and you're right about Isaiah ... but eventually the truth does come out

I will definitely read through the entire thread.

You're right of course about the Holy Ghost having descended upon Adam. That's the big issue with Robert Crossfield's teaching about Adam becoming the Holy Ghost after he died.

The only way it would work is if during the time Michael/Adam was on the earth, that a temporary Holy Ghost was put in place until Adam died.

If the name Holy Ghost is merely the title of a priesthood office, then this is definitely possible.

Again I'm not saying this is how it is, but I can see the logic in it. Especially based on Joseph Smith's teaching about Michael being part of the 3 members of the Godhead.

If this were true it will also help harmonize the Adam God doctrine to scripture.

Alaris wrote: ↑October 2nd, 2019, 11:45 pm

Matthias wrote: ↑October 2nd, 2019, 10:48 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑October 2nd, 2019, 10:30 pm

Matthias wrote: ↑October 2nd, 2019, 10:21 pm I haven't read all 22 pages of this discussion so I apologize if what I'm about to say has been said already.

I have also thought about the possiblity of the Holy Ghost being the Davidic Servant. I think that is a definite possibility.

We don't know for sure though, since according to Isaiah the Lord is hiding the identity of His last days servant in the palm of his hand.

One of the comments on here was about Adam/Michael.

Robert Crossfield who is held as a prophet by a group of Fundamentalists received a bunch of revelations and published them in a book entitled the Second Book of Commandments. In that book it is claimed that after Adam died, he became the Holy Ghost.

I'm not saying I believe that, but I find the idea interesting.

Joseph Smith taught that Elohim, Jehovah, and Michael make up the Godhead. That is also consistent with the three members of the Godhead depicted in the Endowment.

From that standpoint, Michael/Adam would be the Holy Ghost.

Of course the names Father, Son, and Holy Ghost may merely be titles or names for priesthood offices among the God's in yonder heavens.

Welcome to the thread! :->

You really should read all 22 pages plus all the linked articles

The Holy Ghost fell upon Adam - so it's either > 1 person or it's not Adam. It's not Adam.

Maybe start here - The Discourse on Abbaton is truly incredible and confirms so much of what I've learned by study and by personal revelation.

https://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/ ... baton.html

... and you're right about Isaiah ... but eventually the truth does come out

I will definitely read through the entire thread.

You're right of course about the Holy Ghost having descended upon Adam. That's the big issue with Robert Crossfield's teaching about Adam becoming the Holy Ghost after he died.

The only way it would work is if during the time Michael/Adam was on the earth, that a temporary Holy Ghost was put in place until Adam died.

If the name Holy Ghost is merely the title of a priesthood office, then this is definitely possible.

Again I'm not saying this is how it is, but I can see the logic in it. Especially based on Joseph Smith's teaching about Michael being part of the 3 members of the Godhead.

If this were true it will also help harmonize the Adam God doctrine to scripture.

Yes! Exactly... Adam God is harmonized as is facsimile three figure 1 where God uses Abraham sitting upon pharoahs throne to illustrate the grand presidency in heaven. The Holy Ghost sits upon the throne of Adam. This is the link to the obvious... Yet helps explain why it's hidden even now. Why hide Adam being the Holy Ghost when he's the obvious answer? The answer of course is found... Well all over the Apocrypha and our own scriptures. The two angels in Daniel 10 are the hidden servant, which is why he is unnamed, and Michael.

There are Apocryphal books that name him. The apocalypse of Abraham names the angel who visits him as Jahoel and he claims to bear the ineffable name. He expresses greetings to Abraham along with Michael and tells Abraham he will be "invisible" after the sacrifice. The song he teaches Abraham is self referential and suggests jahoel is a God. I had been studying two translations of this book online and recently bought a third translation where the translator puts in parenthesis next to the name jahoel is (Lord God) which is egregious interpolation. Jahoel is clearly the name of the angel who is worthy of worship. The sixth angel in Revelation also is told he'll be worshiped. Jesus says his servant will be extolled and very high when quoting Isaiah to the nephites.

Discourse on Abbaton is incredible. The Lord on his 40th day post resurrection fields one last question from his apostles. He tells them a story about how the angel of death became God of this world and how he was seated upon the throne of Adam.

Jesus Father made Abbaton
He made him king of all creation because of Adam and Eve falling
His purpose was to pursue every soul until it yieldeth up its spirit in misery
There will be a future day of "our visitation"
Jesus filled all the apostles with His Holy Spirit
The Father created heaven and earth
The Father is in Jesus and Jesus is in the Father
The earth complained that if the Father made man from itself that sin will enter the earth
The text implies man was created not only from the ground of the earth but also the spirit in the ground
The text implies that there are seven primary angels
Mouriel then came to retrieve some ground, the earth cried out
The Father hesitated making Adam
Jesus said he would be an advocate for Adam
Jesus would have to come to earth to redeem Adam
The Father made Adam
"Thou has made me ... from a state which I did not exist
The Father wrote into the book of life all the names that will proceed from Adam that will enter the kingdom
All the host of heaven worshiped the Father first then Adam second
Satan complained that Adam should worship him since he was before Adam
Satan was cast down to the earth and he was the greatest one of all
Satan went into and possessed the serpent
Eve ate the forbidden fruit and became naked, Adam saw that she was naked. This implies a transformation
Then Adam ate and became naked
Adam shall return to the earth and his soul shall be in darkness 4500 years
The Father would send his Son after 5500 years after Adam died
Mouriel is equated with Satan
Mouriel is made king over Adam
Mouriel shall be called Abbaton the angel of death
Abbaton changes his tune and agrees to help saying, "I will purify them, O Lord, my God and my King"
Jesus says men will not have wives and women will not live with men
Michael will blow the trumpet that will raise the dead
All mankind will be resurrected
On the day of resurrection Abbaton will not be frightening but will have a face like Michael's
Abbaton will bring the souls to the Father
Jesus will put Abbaton upon a throne and Abbaton will judge all the 12 tribes of Israel
The sheep and the goats are separated but before the goats go to destruction Jesus speaks up and saves them
But Jesus does not save Satan and will cause him to be cast into the lake of fire

Michael Sherwin wrote: ↑September 24th, 2019, 1:23 am Something else just prompted me to look at this scripture.

Isaiah 66:12 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.

On 9/23/2017 Jupiter was at Virgo's side. Anyone want to guess where Jupiter when it comes around again will be on 9/23/2029? If you guessed at her knee then you would be correct. I hope we do not have to wait that long.

Michael Sherwin wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2019, 3:56 am

Alaris wrote: ↑October 2nd, 2019, 11:45 pm

Matthias wrote: ↑October 2nd, 2019, 10:48 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑October 2nd, 2019, 10:30 pm

Welcome to the thread! :->

You really should read all 22 pages plus all the linked articles

The Holy Ghost fell upon Adam - so it's either > 1 person or it's not Adam. It's not Adam.

Maybe start here - The Discourse on Abbaton is truly incredible and confirms so much of what I've learned by study and by personal revelation.

https://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/ ... baton.html

... and you're right about Isaiah ... but eventually the truth does come out

I will definitely read through the entire thread.

You're right of course about the Holy Ghost having descended upon Adam. That's the big issue with Robert Crossfield's teaching about Adam becoming the Holy Ghost after he died.

The only way it would work is if during the time Michael/Adam was on the earth, that a temporary Holy Ghost was put in place until Adam died.

If the name Holy Ghost is merely the title of a priesthood office, then this is definitely possible.

Again I'm not saying this is how it is, but I can see the logic in it. Especially based on Joseph Smith's teaching about Michael being part of the 3 members of the Godhead.

If this were true it will also help harmonize the Adam God doctrine to scripture.

Yes! Exactly... Adam God is harmonized as is facsimile three figure 1 where God uses Abraham sitting upon pharoahs throne to illustrate the grand presidency in heaven. The Holy Ghost sits upon the throne of Adam. This is the link to the obvious... Yet helps explain why it's hidden even now. Why hide Adam being the Holy Ghost when he's the obvious answer? The answer of course is found... Well all over the Apocrypha and our own scriptures. The two angels in Daniel 10 are the hidden servant, which is why he is unnamed, and Michael.

There are Apocryphal books that name him. The apocalypse of Abraham names the angel who visits him as Jahoel and he claims to bear the ineffable name. He expresses greetings to Abraham along with Michael and tells Abraham he will be "invisible" after the sacrifice. The song he teaches Abraham is self referential and suggests jahoel is a God. I had been studying two translations of this book online and recently bought a third translation where the translator puts in parenthesis next to the name jahoel is (Lord God) which is egregious interpolation. Jahoel is clearly the name of the angel who is worthy of worship. The sixth angel in Revelation also is told he'll be worshiped. Jesus says his servant will be extolled and very high when quoting Isaiah to the nephites.

Discourse on Abbaton is incredible. The Lord on his 40th day post resurrection fields one last question from his apostles. He tells them a story about how the angel of death became God of this world and how he was seated upon the throne of Adam.

Alaris, I read the entire Discourse of Abbaton. It does not say, in my opinion what you say it says. It says that Mouriel brought the earth to the Father so the Father could make Adam. The Father then commanded all the angels to worship Adam. Mouriel was wroth with this and caused Eve to eat the forbidden fruit. It equates Mouriel with Satan and names him Abbaton. The DS is nowhere to be found in the DoA. Abbaton changes his mind and decides to help the Lord save mankind. In the end though Jesus decides not to pardon Abbaton and causes him to be cast into the lake of fire. Below are notes I took while reading the DoA. Jesus goes against the wishes of the Father. The Father shuts the gates of heaven and goes his way letting Jesus have his way. There is so much wrong with the DoA that in my opinion it is DOA.

Jesus Father made Abbaton
He made him king of all creation because of Adam and Eve falling
His purpose was to pursue every soul until it yieldeth up its spirit in misery
There will be a future day of "our visitation"
Jesus filled all the apostles with His Holy Spirit
The Father created heaven and earth
The Father is in Jesus and Jesus is in the Father
The earth complained that if the Father made man from itself that sin will enter the earth
The text implies man was created not only from the ground of the earth but also the spirit in the ground
The text implies that there are seven primary angels
Mouriel then came to retrieve some ground, the earth cried out
The Father hesitated making Adam
Jesus said he would be an advocate for Adam
Jesus would have to come to earth to redeem Adam
The Father made Adam
"Thou has made me ... from a state which I did not exist
The Father wrote into the book of life all the names that will proceed from Adam that will enter the kingdom
All the host of heaven worshiped the Father first then Adam second
Satan complained that Adam should worship him since he was before Adam
Satan was cast down to the earth and he was the greatest one of all
Satan went into and possessed the serpent
Eve ate the forbidden fruit and became naked, Adam saw that she was naked. This implies a transformation
Then Adam ate and became naked
Adam shall return to the earth and his soul shall be in darkness 4500 years
The Father would send his Son after 5500 years after Adam died
Mouriel is equated with Satan
Mouriel is made king over Adam
Mouriel shall be called Abbaton the angel of death
Abbaton changes his tune and agrees to help saying, "I will purify them, O Lord, my God and my King"
Jesus says men will not have wives and women will not live with men
Michael will blow the trumpet that will raise the dead
All mankind will be resurrected
On the day of resurrection Abbaton will not be frightening but will have a face like Michael's
Abbaton will bring the souls to the Father
Jesus will put Abbaton upon a throne and Abbaton will judge all the 12 tribes of Israel
The sheep and the goats are separated but before the goats go to destruction Jesus speaks up and saves them
But Jesus does not save Satan and will cause him to be cast into the lake of fire

Alaris wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2019, 8:58 am

Michael Sherwin wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2019, 3:56 am

Alaris wrote: ↑October 2nd, 2019, 11:45 pm

Matthias wrote: ↑October 2nd, 2019, 10:48 pm


I will definitely read through the entire thread.

You're right of course about the Holy Ghost having descended upon Adam. That's the big issue with Robert Crossfield's teaching about Adam becoming the Holy Ghost after he died.

The only way it would work is if during the time Michael/Adam was on the earth, that a temporary Holy Ghost was put in place until Adam died.

If the name Holy Ghost is merely the title of a priesthood office, then this is definitely possible.

Again I'm not saying this is how it is, but I can see the logic in it. Especially based on Joseph Smith's teaching about Michael being part of the 3 members of the Godhead.

If this were true it will also help harmonize the Adam God doctrine to scripture.

Yes! Exactly... Adam God is harmonized as is facsimile three figure 1 where God uses Abraham sitting upon pharoahs throne to illustrate the grand presidency in heaven. The Holy Ghost sits upon the throne of Adam. This is the link to the obvious... Yet helps explain why it's hidden even now. Why hide Adam being the Holy Ghost when he's the obvious answer? The answer of course is found... Well all over the Apocrypha and our own scriptures. The two angels in Daniel 10 are the hidden servant, which is why he is unnamed, and Michael.

There are Apocryphal books that name him. The apocalypse of Abraham names the angel who visits him as Jahoel and he claims to bear the ineffable name. He expresses greetings to Abraham along with Michael and tells Abraham he will be "invisible" after the sacrifice. The song he teaches Abraham is self referential and suggests jahoel is a God. I had been studying two translations of this book online and recently bought a third translation where the translator puts in parenthesis next to the name jahoel is (Lord God) which is egregious interpolation. Jahoel is clearly the name of the angel who is worthy of worship. The sixth angel in Revelation also is told he'll be worshiped. Jesus says his servant will be extolled and very high when quoting Isaiah to the nephites.

Discourse on Abbaton is incredible. The Lord on his 40th day post resurrection fields one last question from his apostles. He tells them a story about how the angel of death became God of this world and how he was seated upon the throne of Adam.

Alaris, I read the entire Discourse of Abbaton. It does not say, in my opinion what you say it says. It says that Mouriel brought the earth to the Father so the Father could make Adam. The Father then commanded all the angels to worship Adam. Mouriel was wroth with this and caused Eve to eat the forbidden fruit. It equates Mouriel with Satan and names him Abbaton. The DS is nowhere to be found in the DoA. Abbaton changes his mind and decides to help the Lord save mankind. In the end though Jesus decides not to pardon Abbaton and causes him to be cast into the lake of fire. Below are notes I took while reading the DoA. Jesus goes against the wishes of the Father. The Father shuts the gates of heaven and goes his way letting Jesus have his way. There is so much wrong with the DoA that in my opinion it is DOA.

Jesus Father made Abbaton
He made him king of all creation because of Adam and Eve falling
His purpose was to pursue every soul until it yieldeth up its spirit in misery
There will be a future day of "our visitation"
Jesus filled all the apostles with His Holy Spirit
The Father created heaven and earth
The Father is in Jesus and Jesus is in the Father
The earth complained that if the Father made man from itself that sin will enter the earth
The text implies man was created not only from the ground of the earth but also the spirit in the ground
The text implies that there are seven primary angels
Mouriel then came to retrieve some ground, the earth cried out
The Father hesitated making Adam
Jesus said he would be an advocate for Adam
Jesus would have to come to earth to redeem Adam
The Father made Adam
"Thou has made me ... from a state which I did not exist
The Father wrote into the book of life all the names that will proceed from Adam that will enter the kingdom
All the host of heaven worshiped the Father first then Adam second
Satan complained that Adam should worship him since he was before Adam
Satan was cast down to the earth and he was the greatest one of all
Satan went into and possessed the serpent
Eve ate the forbidden fruit and became naked, Adam saw that she was naked. This implies a transformation
Then Adam ate and became naked
Adam shall return to the earth and his soul shall be in darkness 4500 years
The Father would send his Son after 5500 years after Adam died
Mouriel is equated with Satan
Mouriel is made king over Adam
Mouriel shall be called Abbaton the angel of death
Abbaton changes his tune and agrees to help saying, "I will purify them, O Lord, my God and my King"
Jesus says men will not have wives and women will not live with men
Michael will blow the trumpet that will raise the dead
All mankind will be resurrected
On the day of resurrection Abbaton will not be frightening but will have a face like Michael's
Abbaton will bring the souls to the Father
Jesus will put Abbaton upon a throne and Abbaton will judge all the 12 tribes of Israel
The sheep and the goats are separated but before the goats go to destruction Jesus speaks up and saves them
But Jesus does not save Satan and will cause him to be cast into the lake of fire

You should read it again. Mouriel is Abbaton and sits on the throne of Adam. The devil is unnamed in this story and is the chief angel under the archangels before he is cast down. Though it doesn't state the devils authority in relation to the archangels explicitly.... More on this in a moment... Mouriel isn't seated upon the throne of Adam until after the devil is cast down and after the fall. To me this illustrates the devil was supposed to be the holy ghost. Here am I send me. Here am I send me. I will send the first.

The word used to describe the devil is "chief." That same word is used to describe Jahoels authority over the seraphim elsewhere and the seraphim are very much intertwined with the Davidic Servant in Isaiah, and 1 Enoch. You've got to put this all together to see the full picture of the hierae, but DoA is clear that Mouriel is Abbadon.... And Abbadon is the angel of the Lord... The destroyer.

Remember Joseph Smith taught the ultimate role of the lesser Priesthood is judgement and destruction. Only the angel of the Lord to whom the office of high priest of the lesser Priesthood points can claim to have trodden the winepress alone. He's been the sole destroyer of the enemies of Israel. He's stained his raiment with the blood of the enemies of Israel. The lesser rule of judgement and destruction.

Edit:

The King David story mirrors this beautifully. The devil is "Saul" here - sitting as "chief" of the seraphim (just below archangels) and loses his right when he refuses to worship a younger soul - Adam. Samuel sees the seven sons of Jesse and assumes Eliab is the anointed because of his stature. Adam has a great stature (Apocalypse of Abraham & Apocalypse of Thomas) as chief archangel. Yet the throne of Adam / Eliab is reserved for the 8th angel / 8th son.

Many folks presume Abbadon is the devil because he's so "terrible" - but he's not a fallen angel. He's the destroying angel of Israel - he destroyed the firstborn of Israel - the armies of Pharoah - the 185,000 Assyrians - the walls of Jericho and even meets Joshua on the fields before. Jesus promises his angel will be the destroyer to their enemies in Exodus 23.

Exodus 23:20 ¶ Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.

22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.

23 For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.

24 Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.

25 And ye shall serve the Lord your God, and he shall bless thy bread, and thy water; and I will take sickness away from the midst of thee.

26 ¶ There shall nothing cast their young, nor be barren, in thy land: the number of thy days I will fulfil.

27 I will send my fear before thee, and will destroy all the people to whom thou shalt come, and I will make all thine enemies turn their backs unto thee.

28 And I will send hornets before thee, which shall drive out the Hivite, the Canaanite, and the Hittite, from before thee.

Michael Sherwin wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2019, 6:40 pm I read it again and this time I did see a clear distinction between Mouriel and Satan. But I'd like to discuss that which is a cause of confusion.

GOD SPEAKING TO MOURIEL
Thou shalt shew compassion neither upon small nor great, and thou shalt carry all away mercilessly. The Powers shall be under thy control, and thou shalt send them after every soul.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

This is why I thought Mouriel was Satan. Mouriel has control of the powers which are wickedness in high places.

ALSO
And when the angels saw him (Mouriel) they were all greatly disturbed together, and they said, "Woe! Woe be unto the sons of of men who shall be born into the world! For behold, even we who are incorporeal shall perish through terror."

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

In the Bible passages above it is universally accepted that they are referring to Satan. And yet they are strikingly similar to what Abbaton does. And yet those passages are about the Serpent.

Revelation 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Revelation 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

I always thought that Death and Hell were Satan and the False Prophet. But now the question arises, is Death the Angel of Death. And why he would slay those that had the testimony of Christ.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

And finally it does seem to say that Abbaton will come in the flesh.

... if Abbaton, the Angel of Death shall come on that day, being in forms of his own person, ... he shall come unto thee in the form of a gentle man ... the Archangel Abbaton

In the Bible only one angel has the title archangel, Michael. Given the pure definition of archangel being the chief or highest messenger it makes sense that the Bible would only give that title to one angel. In extra Biblical text only do we see more than one angel with that title. In the DoA Satan had that title, "Father said unto him (i.e. their chief)". Mouriel was only an angel and later had the title archangel. The Angel of God refused to bring "the earth" to God and so did all seven of the angels refuse. God then sent an angel, Mouriel, which whom was promoted to The Angel of God. There then is an apparent conflict with the Bible.

Joshua 5:14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
...
Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.


It is universally accepted that Michael is the captain of the Lord's host. According to Revelation 12:7-10 it is Michael as the captain of the Lord's host that brings the time of salvation because he cast the dragon down to the earth. And it is Michael that is the great prince, the prince of Daniel's people.

Daniel 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince ...


When the Bible and only the Bible is consulted it appears that Michael incarnates as the DS. Only when going outside of the Bible does Michael become dissociated with the DS and replaced , according to the DoA, by Abbaton. And in extra Biblical text Michael never incarnates. And yet to stand means to incarnate.

Daniel 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

Michael is one of the seven primary angels. And in Revelation it makes plain that all seven primary angels incarnate at some point.

Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


So in all of the extra biblical text where is Michael's incarnation? It certainly is not even hinted at in the DoA! It is as if Michael's incarnation is hidden!

Alaris wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2019, 6:54 pm

Michael Sherwin wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2019, 6:40 pm I read it again and this time I did see a clear distinction between Mouriel and Satan. But I'd like to discuss that which is a cause of confusion.

GOD SPEAKING TO MOURIEL
Thou shalt shew compassion neither upon small nor great, and thou shalt carry all away mercilessly. The Powers shall be under thy control, and thou shalt send them after every soul.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

This is why I thought Mouriel was Satan. Mouriel has control of the powers which are wickedness in high places.

ALSO
And when the angels saw him (Mouriel) they were all greatly disturbed together, and they said, "Woe! Woe be unto the sons of of men who shall be born into the world! For behold, even we who are incorporeal shall perish through terror."

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

In the Bible passages above it is universally accepted that they are referring to Satan. And yet they are strikingly similar to what Abbaton does. And yet those passages are about the Serpent.

Revelation 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Revelation 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

I always thought that Death and Hell were Satan and the False Prophet. But now the question arises, is Death the Angel of Death. And why he would slay those that had the testimony of Christ.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

And finally it does seem to say that Abbaton will come in the flesh.

... if Abbaton, the Angel of Death shall come on that day, being in forms of his own person, ... he shall come unto thee in the form of a gentle man ... the Archangel Abbaton

In the Bible only one angel has the title archangel, Michael. Given the pure definition of archangel being the chief or highest messenger it makes sense that the Bible would only give that title to one angel. In extra Biblical text only do we see more than one angel with that title. In the DoA Satan had that title, "Father said unto him (i.e. their chief)". Mouriel was only an angel and later had the title archangel. The Angel of God refused to bring "the earth" to God and so did all seven of the angels refuse. God then sent an angel, Mouriel, which whom was promoted to The Angel of God. There then is an apparent conflict with the Bible.

Joshua 5:14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
...
Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.


It is universally accepted that Michael is the captain of the Lord's host. According to Revelation 12:7-10 it is Michael as the captain of the Lord's host that brings the time of salvation because he cast the dragon down to the earth. And it is Michael that is the great prince, the prince of Daniel's people.

Daniel 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince ...


When the Bible and only the Bible is consulted it appears that Michael incarnates as the DS. Only when going outside of the Bible does Michael become dissociated with the DS and replaced , according to the DoA, by Abbaton. And in extra Biblical text Michael never incarnates. And yet to stand means to incarnate.

Daniel 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

Michael is one of the seven primary angels. And in Revelation it makes plain that all seven primary angels incarnate at some point.

Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


So in all of the extra biblical text where is Michael's incarnation? It certainly is not even hinted at in the DoA! It is as if Michael's incarnation is hidden!

Those are great points and references - it's almost as though the Lord allows the terror of Abbadon to obscure that he is in fact one of the good guys!

As for Michael - I've noticed that as well that there are many apocryphal books that reference Michael and Adam as separate beings. I think Michael even talks to Adam in The Books of Adam and Eve. That's OK. I'm pretty sure Enoch speaks to all seven archangels and he is undoubtedly one of them. Raphael is the popular choice, and though I remember the reasoning being sound - I can never recall the reasoning offhand lol.

What is confirmed by modern revelation is Joseph Smith revealed that Michael is first in authority and Gabriel second. Discourse on Abbaton confirms this # 1 & # 2 in authority of these two archangels. Abbadon = # 8.

Alaris wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2019, 6:39 pm Wow this just keeps getting better and better. I'm still searching for the alt translation of what I would call the "original" Apocalypse of Abraham, and I found this gem:

https://www.fairmormon.org/wp-content/u ... braham.pdf

Sadly, the title is focused on proving the veracity of the Book of Moses, which, imho, is a lesser work. The greater is to find truth wherever it may be and expand your knowledge rather than focusing on the bits that confirm existing knowledge. *sigh* That said, the parallels are themselves very instructional. In fact, the author points out how the "high mountain" unto which both Moses and Abraham are caught up is also reflected in Nephi's experience. An exceedingly high mountain unknown to them. Could this be 2 Esdras 13 where Ezra, immediately after the Ezra's eagle vision, sees the Davidic Servant appear and destroy armies by the breath of his lips? Ezra first sees the DS appear from regions unknown and a ... great mountain.

2 Esdras 1 And it came to pass after seven days, I dreamed a dream by night:

2 And, lo, there arose a wind from the sea, that it moved all the waves thereof.

3 And I beheld, and, lo, that man waxed strong with the thousands of heaven: and when he turned his countenance to look, all the things trembled that were seen under him.

4 And whensoever the voice went out of his mouth, all they burned that heard his voice, like as the earth faileth when it feeleth the fire.

5 And after this I beheld, and, lo, there was gathered together a multitude of men, out of number, from the four winds of the heaven, to subdue the man that came out of the sea

6 But I beheld, and, lo, he had graved himself a great mountain, and flew up upon it.

Back to the PDF linked at the start of this post. A copy of The Apoclypse of Abraham is ... illustrated! Robbinius should enjoy the illustrations particularly.

abraham-yahoel-facsimile1.PNG

From the PDF:

Here, Abraham appears with a group of sacrificial animals.16 His robe now
covers both of his shoulders. Deity forms a two-handed gesture. This may be
related to the practice in ancient Israel, where the high priest transferred the
sins of the people to the scapegoat in a ritual action involving both hands.17
The figure at right is Yahoel, an Angel of the Presence, whose name connotes
the “Lord God,” the Divine Name, and whose body, face, and hair are also
reminiscent of God Himself.
18 The turban, blue robe, and golden staff recall a
royal high-priestly figure.19

You know, he's right - the angel DOES identify himself as Jehovah. How curious! If only we had other accounts where this happens:

Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.

4 And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.

5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

The key to understand this is reflected in the relationship between Moses and Aaron - this message is given by the Angel of Jehovah who speaks for Jehovah:

Exodus 4:16 And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.

Most reading this already know this - especially if you're reading this thread start to finish. The link between the Angel Jahoel and Facsimile 1 is amazing. I discuss yet another link from Facsimile 1's "horus falcon" to the Angel of the Lord where the character "horus" amazingly resembles the Davidic Servant. The heir of Osiris who raises Osiris by the "eye of horus" which is a stone that contains the new name.

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... -part.html

Anyway - I'm getting way sidetracked here. I still haven't found that translation that moved me to post today in the first place. Before I do - please have a look at this incredible PDF if you are interested in the topic. The author points out how the medieval depictions of Yahoel are similar to depictions of Christ where He raises the dead - linking the power of the resurrection to the Angel who sounds the first trump (D&C 88) whose name is conspicuously absent from D&C 88.

Robbinius wrote: ↑October 4th, 2019, 12:18 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑October 3rd, 2019, 6:39 pm Wow this just keeps getting better and better. I'm still searching for the alt translation of what I would call the "original" Apocalypse of Abraham, and I found this gem:

https://www.fairmormon.org/wp-content/u ... braham.pdf

Sadly, the title is focused on proving the veracity of the Book of Moses, which, imho, is a lesser work. The greater is to find truth wherever it may be and expand your knowledge rather than focusing on the bits that confirm existing knowledge. *sigh* That said, the parallels are themselves very instructional. In fact, the author points out how the "high mountain" unto which both Moses and Abraham are caught up is also reflected in Nephi's experience. An exceedingly high mountain unknown to them. Could this be 2 Esdras 13 where Ezra, immediately after the Ezra's eagle vision, sees the Davidic Servant appear and destroy armies by the breath of his lips? Ezra first sees the DS appear from regions unknown and a ... great mountain.

2 Esdras 1 And it came to pass after seven days, I dreamed a dream by night:

2 And, lo, there arose a wind from the sea, that it moved all the waves thereof.

3 And I beheld, and, lo, that man waxed strong with the thousands of heaven: and when he turned his countenance to look, all the things trembled that were seen under him.

4 And whensoever the voice went out of his mouth, all they burned that heard his voice, like as the earth faileth when it feeleth the fire.

5 And after this I beheld, and, lo, there was gathered together a multitude of men, out of number, from the four winds of the heaven, to subdue the man that came out of the sea

6 But I beheld, and, lo, he had graved himself a great mountain, and flew up upon it.

Back to the PDF linked at the start of this post. A copy of The Apoclypse of Abraham is ... illustrated! Robbinius should enjoy the illustrations particularly.

abraham-yahoel-facsimile1.PNG

From the PDF:

Here, Abraham appears with a group of sacrificial animals.16 His robe now
covers both of his shoulders. Deity forms a two-handed gesture. This may be
related to the practice in ancient Israel, where the high priest transferred the
sins of the people to the scapegoat in a ritual action involving both hands.17
The figure at right is Yahoel, an Angel of the Presence, whose name connotes
the “Lord God,” the Divine Name, and whose body, face, and hair are also
reminiscent of God Himself.
18 The turban, blue robe, and golden staff recall a
royal high-priestly figure.19

You know, he's right - the angel DOES identify himself as Jehovah. How curious! If only we had other accounts where this happens:

Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.

4 And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.

5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

The key to understand this is reflected in the relationship between Moses and Aaron - this message is given by the Angel of Jehovah who speaks for Jehovah:

Exodus 4:16 And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.

Most reading this already know this - especially if you're reading this thread start to finish. The link between the Angel Jahoel and Facsimile 1 is amazing. I discuss yet another link from Facsimile 1's "horus falcon" to the Angel of the Lord where the character "horus" amazingly resembles the Davidic Servant. The heir of Osiris who raises Osiris by the "eye of horus" which is a stone that contains the new name.

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... -part.html

Anyway - I'm getting way sidetracked here. I still haven't found that translation that moved me to post today in the first place. Before I do - please have a look at this incredible PDF if you are interested in the topic. The author points out how the medieval depictions of Yahoel are similar to depictions of Christ where He raises the dead - linking the power of the resurrection to the Angel who sounds the first trump (D&C 88) whose name is conspicuously absent from D&C 88.

From the PDF (https://www.fairmormon.org/wp-content/u ... braham.pdf):

Abraham, a nimbus surrounding his head, stands at left wearing a green robe on his left shoulder indicating his priestly status. Note the crescent moon on the blue half-orb at the top representing God’s presence. We do not yet understand why the moon appears here,

Uh, I do. The greater light to rule the day, or Jehovah, the Melchizedek High Priest, and the lesser light to rule the night, or the Aaronic High Priest, or the priest of judgment and destruction, the Arm of the Lord, the Destroyer. This is He who would be the means of sending forth fire under direction of Jehovah, under direction of the Father. Hmmmm... not a lot of mystery there actually. Amazing how the puzzle keeps getting put more and more back together with each document.

And yeah I'm loving the illustrations

Edit: I just realized I wasn't clear on what I was referencing. I don't know how to post an image from a local file here, but it's on page 6 of that PDF. It's the one with fire raining down on Abraham's father, Terah's house for being an idolator. Judgment and destruction.